Quote of the Day: Thank You for Your Service. You Can Go Now.

 

“Time of trouble,” I objected, “a man who can handle a gun is good to have around, and on your side.”

“Sure,” pa would say, “but when trouble is over folks can’t get shut of him fast enough.”

— Louis L’Amour, Tucker, 1971

When I read this, I first thought of our veterans. And that reminded me of Victor Davis Hanson’s The Savior Generals, and how the five leaders in the book fared following their salvific acts on behalf of their country (city-state, empire). 

The same motif shows up in Westerns like Shane, Pale Rider, and even, in a way, in The Virginian.

And, God help us, here it is again, in Black Sabbath’s Iron Man, a song about a robot/machine that has been neglected since his act of rescue:

Now, the time is here
For Iron Man to spread fear
Vengeance from the grave
Kills the people he once saved

The difference is that the heroes would take up the mantle anyway, knowing the cost. Iron Man can’t. He knows revenge, not honor. Perhaps that is what makes the hero the hero.

So I’m wondering what examples other folks have come across of heroes who are neglected, dispensed with, or destroyed once their services are no longer needed. Churchill, of course, counts.

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  1. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    It’s late, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but the big bloodlettings: Tarawa, Pelilieu, Okinawa, and Iwo Jima were Nimitz’s. As best I can recall, MacArthur was pretty chary of his soldiers’ lives.

    I don’t think Peliliu was Nimitz.  I should go back and read about it again.  It was more related to the Philippines, as, I recall.  The whole Philippine campaign needs reassessment.  Maybe it was necessary but maybe not. It certainly cost a lot of Philippine lives. Could it have been bypassed ?

    • #31
  2. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Skyler (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):
    Among other things, only one Union soldier was accused of rape and was hung.

    And I’ve a bridge to sell you that goes right over the Hudson River.

    I think we will have to agree to disagree. The southern “Lost Cause” movement is alive and well, even today.

    • #32
  3. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Skyler (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention. That is human nature.

    The Brits had Sword and Juno beach. Have you been there?  I have.  The cliffs at Omaha were absent from Utah and the Brit beaches.

     

    Thomas, who was almost relieved by Lincoln for his “slows” was a great general in defense, like Montgomery. He spent the rest of his life complaining about how he was treated.

    • #33
  4. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention. That is human nature.

    “Lost Cause” obsession.

    • #34
  5. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention. That is human nature.

    The Brits had Sword and Juno beach. Have you been there? I have. The cliffs at Omaha were absent from Utah and the Brit beaches.

     

    Thomas, who was almost relieved by Lincoln for his “slows” was a great general in defense, like Montgomery. He spent the rest of his life complaining about how he was treated.

    And yet his attacks were more effective than any other northern general except Grant, and cost a lot fewer lives.

    Lincoln is not known for his intelligent selection of generals.  Although he has been deified by historians, his military sense was lacking.  He was a pure political cut throat.

    • #35
  6. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention. That is human nature.

    “Lost Cause” obsession.

    Ad hominem doesn’t lessen the legitimacy of the argument.  

     

    • #36
  7. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    It’s late, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but the big bloodlettings: Tarawa, Pelilieu, Okinawa, and Iwo Jima were Nimitz’s. As best I can recall, MacArthur was pretty chary of his soldiers’ lives.

    I don’t think Peliliu was Nimitz. I should go back and read about it again. It was more related to the Philippines, as, I recall. The whole Philippine campaign needs reassessment. Maybe it was necessary but maybe not. It certainly cost a lot of Philippine lives. Could it have been bypassed ?

    I’ve read more than once that the only reason we invaded the Philippines was because of MacArthur’s promise.

    • #37
  8. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Skyler (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention.

    The Brits had the “funnies” too, which the Americans didn’t adopt for some reason.

    • #38
  9. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Skyler (View Comment):

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention. That is human nature.

    “Lost Cause” obsession.

    Ad hominem doesn’t lessen the legitimacy of the argument.

     

    The Lost Cause thing is not ad hominem but does explain your heat.  Sherman was our greatest general. Washington and Eisenhower were great politicians.  Patton was also a great general and studied Sherman’s campaigns.  As I said, agree to disagree.

    • #39
  10. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    The Brits executed better and had a lot less drama. But drama gets attention.

    The Brits had the “funnies” too, which the Americans didn’t adopt for some reason.

    Yes, although Eisenhower have a lot of credit to the sergeant who thought of the  “Rhino” attachment to the  Sherman tanks.

    • #40
  11. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    The Lost Cause movement even today hates Sherman way out of proportion to what happened on the March through Georgia.  Grant’s campaigns should have warned the British and Germans about the role of trenches.  Churchill made an attempt at a flank attack at Dardanelles but the British Navy, which had not fought since Napoleon, let him down.

    Sherman’s men loved him because his maneuver battles lost few men and often avoided real battle at all. Joe Johnston, who aside from Lee was the South’s best general by 1865, knew he was outmatched.

    https://civilwar.wikia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

     

    • #41
  12. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    MichaelKennedy (View Comment):

    The Lost Cause movement even today hates Sherman way out of proportion to what happened on the March through Georgia. Grant’s campaigns should have warned the British and Germans about the role of trenches. Churchill made an attempt at a flank attack at Dardanelles but the British Navy, which had not fought since Napoleon, let him down.

    Sherman’s men loved him because his maneuver battles lost few men and often avoided real battle at all. Joe Johnston, who aside from Lee was the South’s best general by 1865, knew he was outmatched.

    https://civilwar.wikia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

     

    Sherman was right about one thing, as was Grant.  Total war is the best way to end a war.  But he is over rated as a General.  That he is thought so highly of has more to do with his memoirs than ability.  His hagiographers have relied on social status among the generals as the main basis for promoting him. 

    • #42
  13. MichaelKennedy Inactive
    MichaelKennedy
    @MichaelKennedy

    We will agree to disagree.  George Patton did not agree with you either,

    • #43
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