Who Is Pachamama?

 

Several Amazonian idols were collected by two anonymous men, who entered an ancient church in Rome called The Church of St. Mary in Traspontina, not far from St. Peter’s Square. Before dawn on October 21, they tossed them into the Tiber River.

The carved Pachamama figurines were found and scooped out of the water by the Italian police and are in the control of an Italian police commander. The Pope apologized, according to the latest news, to the Amazonians, not the faithful, who are the subject and guests of the Pope’s recent Synod. Catholics and apparently two mysterious men, were outraged at the false idols being placed at various altars and other holy areas during this Synod.

Several Ricochet members have already posted these stories, including @scottwilmot, and @brianwatt.

Definition of Pachamama according to Wikipedia:

Pachamama is a goddess revered by the indigenous people of the Andes. She is also known as the earth/time mother. In Inca mythology, Pachamama is a fertility goddess who presides over planting and harvesting, embodies the mountains, and causes earthquakes.

The Pope was seen seated on a bench before a ceremony, along with several cardinals, as people bowed and honored Pachamama. He has suggested that the idols be returned, and is contemplating bringing them to the Church of St. Peter tomorrow, for the closing Mass of the Amazonian Synod.

There is a website about the figure.

As I peeled back the layers of this organization, who have been around since the 1990s, I discovered the goals are to move the world into a “new age” of respect for the earth, and nature, including “giving nature legal protection, for respecting indigenous peoples, and respecting all life.” Sounds good right (haven’t we been there before)? Wait, there’s more…. If you research the people giving the lectures, you’ll read how democracy is bad – the enemy, income inequality is a problem that needs to be resolved, wealth and success are wrong, and corporations are raping Mother Earth and the world’s resources, contributing to global warming, income inequality, and climate change. Some of that may be true. I respect the younger generation who are following in the footsteps of the original 1960s movement to respect the earth, our fellow human beings, to be kind to one another, equality for women, protecting children and those less fortunate, and to seek peace.

I also draw the line between taking those issues and turning them into reverse racism, gender fluidity, as if God made a mistake creating male and female, idol worship, the denigration of sovereignty, and traditional western culture. If you look closely at Pachamama.org, you will find something beyond respecting the Amazon forest and people. You’ll find classes training in ancient cults, including Egyptian and other “mysterious” forms of worship (their words), as part of their teaching programs. You’ll find humanity to be the answer, rather than God. You’ll find every New Age gobbledegook regurgitated from the ’60s, and probably every pagan civilization in the past since civilization began, that eventually met with demise, spouting the oldest lie found in Genesis – “ye shall be as gods.”

The worship of Mother Earth is nothing new, but there is a difference between respecting the earth and nature, and all-out worship, as in front of an altar. Missionaries throughout the world for centuries have sought to bring relief to the suffering, through education, clean water and food, medicine, and safe housing, while bringing the truth of the Gospel to the world — dismissing false idols, that are nothing more than myth, stone, and wood. The goddess Pachamama, and all other false gods and goddesses have never changed one thing, or bettered the lives of any human being. So what is going on? What is the purpose of this Amazonian Synod brought forth by the Catholic leadership? Where are the Gospels or the message of Jesus as being the Savior of souls? That part has been left out.

I was a kid raised in the New Age generation. I thought every path led to the same place. I had the books and likeminded friends and believed in this lie for decades. My personal spiritual journey came full circle and can assure you it was empty of substance and truth. So here we go again. Only on a much larger scale. To the Vatican – where are you and why are you not teaching new generations who don’t know what saving grace means? It seems they just want to Save the Planet and nothing else.

There are 57 comments.

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  1. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Well said. Thanks for the backgrounder.

    To respond to your question:

    The Vatican – where are you and why are you not teaching new generations who don’t know what saving grace means?

    Because there are evil men and women in the Church determined to destroy Her and civilization and all the good that the Church has brought over almost two-thousand years through learning and charity and good works. They do this by destroying the family, the boundaries of male and female, and the meaning of words with Orwellian doublespeak. They do this by preying on and sexually abusing children and young adults many of whom are never the same again and turn to drugs and suicide. They do it through indulging in drug-fueled orgies and promoting heretical teaching. And don’t assume that the violence, depravity, and horrors we are witnessing around the world aren’t in many respects the result of the Catholic Church that was infiltrated by wolves some sixty or more years ago.

    In the end, the destruction of the Church won’t happen. As much as there is a Satanic force driving this there is a countervailing supernatural force pushing back on it. In the past few days, there have been priests and bishops openly criticizing Bergoglio and calling out the heresies he’s pushing. Thankfully. And the more devout laity is getting more vocal. Social media helps to expose the lies and corruption of the curia. In America, hopefully some states’ attorneys general can bring some prelates to justice. My sense is that the fight for the Church will become more intense.

    • #1
  2. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

     

    • #2
  3. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Back in the late 80s-early 90s the Catholic Bishop in my hometown had an “Earth Mass” on the date corresponding to some sort of “harmonic convergence” of something or another that made the new-agers all excited. A few years later he died of an aneurysm. On a trip to the Holy land. Just sayin…

    • #3
  4. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Pack-O-Mama? Pretty sure I ran into her a couple of times. Once for real in New Hampshire on the AT, and maybe once in the Collegiate Range in Colorado. I’m less certain about that last encounter, things were hazy.

    • #4
  5. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Why do people revere the Earth? I mean this seriously. Nature wants to kill me and devour my corpse. It’s pure, pitiless indifference to me as a person. I admire the beauty of the Earth, but when has it ever shown signs of deserving worship?

    • #5
  6. Jon1979 Lincoln
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Pack-O-Mama? Pretty sure I ran into her a couple of times. Once for real in New Hampshire on the AT, and maybe once in the Collegiate Range in Colorado. I’m less certain about that last encounter, things were hazy.

    Pac-O-Man, in contrast, would be an Irish video game character from the early 1980s….

    • #6
  7. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    I’ll say it again, this is an Antipope.

    • #7
  8. Old Buckeye Inactive
    Old Buckeye
    @OldBuckeye

    So Pachamama

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Pack-O-Mama? Pretty sure I ran into her a couple of times. Once for real in New Hampshire on the AT, and maybe once in the Collegiate Range in Colorado. I’m less certain about that last encounter, things were hazy.

    Pac-O-Man, in contrast, would be an Irish video game character from the early 1980s….

    You forgot the apostrophe: Pac O’Man.

    • #8
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey Coolidge
    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Caryn (View Comment):
    Back in the late 80s-early 90s the Catholic Bishop in my hometown had an “Earth Mass” on the date corresponding to some sort of “harmonic convergence” of something or another that made the new-agers all excited.

    The “harmonic convergence!” Thanks for firing up some long-dormant synapses. I was in college at the time and I remember our group of friends having a lot of fun with that. Or I should say “making fun of it.”

    Wikipedia has an entry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence

    • #9
  10. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    • #10
  11. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):
    Back in the late 80s-early 90s the Catholic Bishop in my hometown had an “Earth Mass” on the date corresponding to some sort of “harmonic convergence” of something or another that made the new-agers all excited.

    The “harmonic convergence!” Thanks for firing up some long-dormant synapses. I was in college at the time and I remember our group of friends having a lot of fun with that. Or I should say “making fun of it.”

    Wikipedia has an entry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence

    Why am I hearing the song The Age of Aquarius?

    • #11
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Why do people revere the Earth? I mean this seriously. Nature wants to kill me and devour my corpse. It’s pure, pitiless indifference to me as a person. I admire the beauty of the Earth, but when has it ever shown signs of deserving worship?

    It could be a plea, “Please don’t kill me, mother earth. Kill my sacrificial child instead.” 

    A problem with this religion or any other form of pantheism is that taken to its logical conclusion, it removes any distinction between right and wrong, or even the concept of right and wrong.

    • #12
  13. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):
    Back in the late 80s-early 90s the Catholic Bishop in my hometown had an “Earth Mass” on the date corresponding to some sort of “harmonic convergence” of something or another that made the new-agers all excited.

    The “harmonic convergence!” Thanks for firing up some long-dormant synapses. I was in college at the time and I remember our group of friends having a lot of fun with that. Or I should say “making fun of it.”

    Wikipedia has an entry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence

    Why am I hearing the song The Age of Aquarius?

    You can almost hear it in this response from those running the Amazon Synod on what synodality means:

    Here was my tweet response to it the posted video:

    “It was like, you know, uh…there were these…I mean…we all kinda felt like…and then this ‘whoosh’ sort of feeling…and then we all knew we were doing it…and then Erwin threw up…and that was groovy, too…you know what I mean?”

    • #13
  14. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Type Monkey (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):
    Back in the late 80s-early 90s the Catholic Bishop in my hometown had an “Earth Mass” on the date corresponding to some sort of “harmonic convergence” of something or another that made the new-agers all excited.

    The “harmonic convergence!” Thanks for firing up some long-dormant synapses. I was in college at the time and I remember our group of friends having a lot of fun with that. Or I should say “making fun of it.”

    Wikipedia has an entry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence

    Why am I hearing the song The Age of Aquarius?

    You can almost hear it in this response from those running the Amazon Synod on what synodality means:

    Here was my tweet response to it the posted video:

    “It was like, you know, uh…there were these…I mean…we all kinda felt like…and then this ‘whoosh’ sort of feeling…and then we all knew we were doing it…and then Erwin threw up…and that was groovy, too…you know what I mean?”

    Cardinal Michael who spoke has contact info that labels him a Jesuit. I ordered the book by Malachi Martin who wrote about the distinct turn of the Jesuit Order (of which Pope Francis identifies) in the early 60’s (since being in existence and making extraordinary contributions for hundreds of years). The turn rejected tradition, embraced Liberation Theology, and supported Marxist/Socialist governments throughout Central America (literally embedded). This is new to many – but the fruits are now being seen apparently in the embracing of environmental, social justice, and politics instead of promoting the faith. Just when many including youth are losing faith – 

     

    • #14
  15. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    • #15
  16. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Here are some excerpts and a quote by Pope Francis, calling the earth our sister, from the final closing of the Synod:

    “The bishops proposed that the Church define what would constitute the “ecological sin” of harming the environment and also introduce specific ministries for the care of nature. The pope asked forgiveness for what he considered an insult to the indigenous after ultra-conservative Catholic militants stole replicas of the statue and dumped them into the Tiber River.  “The mistakes of the past were not enough to stop the plundering of other persons and the inflicting of wounds on our brothers and sisters and on our sister Earth: we have seen it in the scarred face of the Amazon region,” he said.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-synod-amazon/pope-closing-synod-decries-plundering-of-the-amazon-idUSKBN1X60CY

    • #16
  17. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Front Seat Cat:

     

     

     

     

     

    That’s quite a different picture than I had seen before. Raymond Arroyo’s video footage left me to assume the statue was being placed among standard Christian symbols, as if the image of a pregnant woman was just a local representation of Mary who was being revered and not worshipped. It would not be scandalous for a local culture to visually represent Mary in a different way and to understand a primitive icon as a precursor to full Christian understanding.

    In other words, not all pregnant woman statues similar to that are Pachamama or idols. Here is a woodcarving a North American indian made of Mary. It is not a far cry from some pagan statues, but only reminds its Christian owner of our Holy Mother. 

    But that scene doesn’t show a Mary-like figure beside Christ or the cross. It does not, like a Marian grotto, allude to Christ in any obvious way… unless what is drawn in the circle around the statues, not visible in the photograph but visible to attendees, does. 

    I have taken a wait-and-see approach to synod reports because we get only selective, scattered, biased information from conversations and events occurring in other languages (allowing for misinterpretation). But this particularly concerns me if this image is being placed in churches. 

    Popes do not have authority to teach error, to contradict any received teaching. If a pope were to tolerate idolatry, I am not sure what the implications would be. In words, at least, Pope Francis has not directed listeners to any focus other than Christ (however muddled his words can be). 

    • #17
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    “The bishops proposed that the Church define what would constitute the “ecological sin” of harming the environment and also introduce specific ministries for the care of nature. The pope asked forgiveness for what he considered an insult to the indigenous after ultra-conservative Catholic militants stole replicas of the statue and dumped them into the Tiber River.  “The mistakes of the past were not enough to stop the plundering of other persons and the inflicting of wounds on our brothers and sisters and on our sister Earth: we have seen it in the scarred face of the Amazon region,” he said.

    The Church was not instituted by Christ to Save the Planet!! The job of priests is to bring people to Christ for the salvation of souls!!!

    • #18
  19. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat:

     

     

     

     

     

    That’s quite a different picture than I had seen before. Raymond Arroyo’s video footage left me to assume the statue was being placed among standard Christian symbols, as if the image of a pregnant woman was just a local representation of Mary who was being revered and not worshipped. It would not be scandalous for a local culture to visually represent Mary in a different way and to understand a primitive icon as a precursor to full Christian understanding.

    In other words, not all pregnant woman statues similar to that are Pachamama or idols. Here is a woodcarving a North American indian made of Mary. It is not a far cry from some pagan statues, but only reminds its Christian owner of our Holy Mother.

    But that scene doesn’t show a Mary-like figure beside Christ or the cross. It does not, like a Marian grotto, allude to Christ in any obvious way… unless what is drawn in the circle around the statues, not visible in the photograph but visible to attendees, does.

    I have taken a wait-and-see approach to synod reports because we get only selective, scattered, biased information from conversations and events occurring in other languages (allowing for misinterpretation). But this particularly concerns me if this image is being placed in churches.

    Popes do not have authority to teach error, to contradict any received teaching. If a pope were to tolerate idolatry, I am not sure what the implications would be. In words, at least, Pope Francis has not directed listeners to any focus other than Christ (however muddled his words can be).

    Well, pardon me but the pope sat and watched as people prostrate themselves before the idols, chant, and make offerings to them. It’s captured on video and in many photographs taken at the event. Naturally, Paolo Ruffini, a Vatican spokesman attempted to gaslight traditional Catholics by claiming that there was no idol worship and no prostration despite what the video and photos clearly show.

    Several Vatican spokesmen denied that the idol was a representation of the Virgin Mary but said the idol represented “life” or “Mother Earth”. “Mother Earth” is not a deity in the Catholic faith. The stylized statue you’ve shown of Mary is similar only in the elemental simplicity of the form – but does not show a naked woman with swollen belly and a child in a red-colored womb as the Pachamama fertility goddess statue shows. Mary is never depicted in nakedness and never depicted in this way.

    Rather than take a “wait-and-see approach”, you could avail yourself of countless articles now on the internet on the Amazon Synod and the Pachamama topic.

    You could start here https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/amazonian-bishop-slams-demonic-sacrilege-at-vatican:

    VATICAN (ChurchMilitant.com) – An Amazonian bishop is denouncing the “demonic sacrileges” taking place in Rome, confirming that the controversial fertility figure dubbed “Pachamama” is indeed a pagan goddess.

    Bishop José Luis Azcona, Emeritus Bishop of Marajó in the Amazon region, is condemning the pagan rites surrounding the idol as “demonic sacrileges that produce scandal.”

    “In those rituals there is the devil, there is magic. Our Lady is not the Pachamama, she is the Virgin of Nazareth,” the Spanish-born prelate thundered in a 45-minute sermon given Oct. 16 in the Basilica of Our Lady of Nazareth, Belem, in the Amazonian state of Para, Brazil.

    In those rituals there is the devil, there is magic.

    Bishop Azcona, who in August called the synod’s Instrumentum Laboris (working document) a “document of straw,” referred to REPAM’s pre-synodal meeting in Brazil last June during which several “indigenous rituals with invocations and prayers in which some bishops also participated” took place.

    “These are fundamental issues and here in the Amazon we know the meaning of Macumba orCondomblè,” said Bp. Azcona, lashing out at the Vatican ceremony. “They are magical rites and curses, coming from northeastern Brazil and the state of Bahia, which are frequent here.”

    Delivering his homily in Portuguese, Bp. Azcona affirmed that “these celebrations depend on the spirits that are evoked and it is evident that this is witchcraft, from which the letter of St. Paul to the Galatians warns us, in chapter 5, verse 29, when he denounces the sin of idolatry that is incompatible with the Gospel and with mission.”

    The bishop likened the idols “venerated in the Vatican” to the Anatolian mother goddess Cybele and to the Hellenic goddess Astarte: “Both express the fertility of women.”

    “The invocation of the statuettes in front of which even some religious have bowed in the Vatican (and I will not mention the religious order to which they belong) is the invocation of the mythical power of Mother Earth, to which they are asking blessings upon humanity or offering gestures of gratitude,” he insisted. “These are scandalous demonic sacrileges, especially for the little ones who can’t discern.”

    “Mother earth should not be worshiped because everything, even the earth, is under the dominion of Jesus Christ,” he said. “It is not possible that there are spirits with a power equal to or greater than that of Our Lord or that of the Virgin Mary.”

    In a homily punctuated by applause from a packed congregation, the prelate declaimed:

    Pachamama is not and never will be the Virgin Mary. To say that statue represents the Virgin is a lie. She is not the Lady of the Amazon because the only Lady of the Amazon is Mary of Nazareth. Let’s not make syncretistic mixes. All this is impossible: the Mother of God is the Queen of Heaven and earth.

    • #19
  20. Old Bathos Moderator
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    It is mindless to refuse to offer Christianity which is universal and transcendent by nature but to instead offer political correctness and condescension which is the narrow, narcissistic mindset of spoiled, intellectually flaccid and morally bankrupt upper middle class Westerners.

    Placing a petting zoo of Amazon natives inside the Vatican is the height of cultural arrogance by the most intolerant ideology on the planet which continues to brazenly seek to displace all orthodox faiths.

    • #20
  21. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    It is mindless to refuse to offer Christianity which is universal and transcendent by nature but to instead offer political correctness and condescension which is the narrow, narcissistic mindset of spoiled, intellectually flaccid and morally bankrupt upper middle class Westerners.

    Placing a petting zoo of Amazon natives inside the Vatican is the height of cultural arrogance by the most intolerant ideology on the planet which continues to brazenly seek to displace all orthodox faiths.

    So, let me see if I understand you, you’re blaming Catholicism as a whole on the actions of an errant and arguably heretical pontiff?

    • #21
  22. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    “Mother Earth” is not a deity in the Catholic faith.

    Neither is Mary. It is her humanity that gives us hope.

    It’s astonishing that the synod clergy is virtually indistinguishable from secular Gaia-worshiping leftists.

    • #22
  23. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    “Mother Earth” is not a deity in the Catholic faith.

    Neither is Mary. It is her humanity that gives us hope.

    It’s astonishing that the synod clergy is virtually indistinguishable from secular Gaia-worshiping leftists.

    Yes, I am aware that Mary is not a deity, thanks.

    • #23
  24. Old Bathos Moderator
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    It is mindless to refuse to offer Christianity which is universal and transcendent by nature but to instead offer political correctness and condescension which is the narrow, narcissistic mindset of spoiled, intellectually flaccid and morally bankrupt upper middle class Westerners.

    Placing a petting zoo of Amazon natives inside the Vatican is the height of cultural arrogance by the most intolerant ideology on the planet which continues to brazenly seek to displace all orthodox faiths.

    So, let me see if I understand you, you’re blaming Catholicism as a whole on the actions of an errant and arguably heretical pontiff?

    I am at a loss to see how you arrived at that interpretation of my comment. 
    The idiot woke pope is not acting alone or in a vacuum nor did he invent the ideology being offered to replace orthodox Christianity. “The most intolerant ideology” does not refer to the universal church but to what is now the dominant viewpoint in the Vatican.

    • #24
  25. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    It is mindless to refuse to offer Christianity which is universal and transcendent by nature but to instead offer political correctness and condescension which is the narrow, narcissistic mindset of spoiled, intellectually flaccid and morally bankrupt upper middle class Westerners.

    Placing a petting zoo of Amazon natives inside the Vatican is the height of cultural arrogance by the most intolerant ideology on the planet which continues to brazenly seek to displace all orthodox faiths.

    So, let me see if I understand you, you’re blaming Catholicism as a whole on the actions of an errant and arguably heretical pontiff?

    I am at a loss to see how you arrived at that interpretation of my comment.
    The idiot woke pope is not acting alone or in a vacuum nor did he invent the ideology being offered to replace orthodox Christianity. “The most intolerant ideology” does not refer to the universal church but to what is now the dominant viewpoint in the Vatican.

    Thanks for the clarification. My apologies. I’ve been running a bit hot lately.

    • #25
  26. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    Rather than take a “wait-and-see approach”, you could avail yourself of countless articles now on the internet on the Amazon Synod and the Pachamama topic.

    I have read several. Most regard what might have happened, rather than indisputable facts, because of conflicting accounts. But my role is no different whatever the circumstances: fast, pray, and know the real faith. I don’t really need the details of scandals. 

    Popes and bishops have no authority to undo received doctrine. They can only deepen existing understanding of revelation. The corrupt can mislead souls away from Church teaching, but cannot uproot the Church. 

    If the Pope practiced idolatry, and did not just sew confusion, I’m fairly sure he would be automatically excommunicated and no longer pope. Popes, like all priests, can do wicked things and yet be empowered to perform good in the sacraments. But I don’t think a pope could simultaneously be an unbeliever. 

    Obviously, all Catholics should be gravely concerned that our bishops and pope do not invite such evils. But the role of you and me in this is to clarify to neighbors and fellow Christians what is and is not Christian practice, to whatever degrees we are able, and not to demand a bishop’s head. If our shepherds need replacing, now or ever, only the bishops by God’s grace can sort that out.

    • #26
  27. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    It is mindless to refuse to offer Christianity which is universal and transcendent by nature but to instead offer political correctness and condescension which is the narrow, narcissistic mindset of spoiled, intellectually flaccid and morally bankrupt upper middle class Westerners.

    Placing a petting zoo of Amazon natives inside the Vatican is the height of cultural arrogance by the most intolerant ideology on the planet which continues to brazenly seek to displace all orthodox faiths.

    So, let me see if I understand you, you’re blaming Catholicism as a whole on the actions of an errant and arguably heretical pontiff?

    I think Old Bathos is trying to say that what is taking place here in embracing the climate change and social justice mantras is in keeping with the secular, anything goes except what the Church teaches mindset. I don’t think its unusual to have native cultures present – for example at World Youth Day, many countries are represented, but the message is always clear – the Gospel and message of Jesus, not the trendy topics of the day?

    • #27
  28. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    Rather than take a “wait-and-see approach”, you could avail yourself of countless articles now on the internet on the Amazon Synod and the Pachamama topic.

    I have read several. Most regard what might have happened, rather than indisputable facts, because of conflicting accounts. But my role is no different whatever the circumstances: fast, pray, and know the real faith. I don’t really need the details of scandals.

    Popes and bishops have no authority to undo received doctrine. They can only deepen existing understanding of revelation. The corrupt can mislead souls away from Church teaching, but cannot uproot the Church.

    If the Pope practiced idolatry, and did not just sew confusion, I’m fairly sure he would be automatically excommunicated and no longer pope. Popes, like all priests, can do wicked things and yet be empowered to perform good in the sacraments. But I don’t think a pope could simultaneously be an unbeliever.

    Obviously, all Catholics should be gravely concerned that our bishops and pope do not invite such evils. But the role of you and me in this is to clarify to neighbors and fellow Christians what is and is not Christian practice, to whatever degrees we are able, and not to demand a bishop’s head. If our shepherds need replacing, now or ever, only the bishops by God’s grace can sort that out.

    Aaron, I thought the same thing when I read your first comment – wait and see. I thought Hmmm…..was this staged for sensation – maybe the figurines were planted? I also wondered if this wasn’t a representation of the Virgin Mary. It didn’t take long to find it was not and the figures were placed in front of several altars. Another picture of an Amazonian woman breastfeeding her baby on one breast was also on display, and a small animal on another!!! This picture was eventually removed.

    • #28
  29. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    I saw the tail end of a documentary last night on Saint John Paul II – it wasn’t Witness to Hope, which I have on CD and is extraordinary. The end of the movie showed how he stood up to the Russian communists, the tanks, and brought hope to Poland before he was elected pope. The suffering was tremendous, but he preached to not lose faith. The workers lived and breathed that hopeful message. They stood up for the true faith, even suffering torture and persecution, but stood steadfast. Russia backed down, communism fell, and Poland regained their freedom. They never lost hope. There was no Pachamama presented, or how they were destroying the environment. They survived because they never lost hope in the faith. It was so powerful, I cried. I’m 3/4 Polish and didn’t know this history until later in life. The history needs to be taught, and the Amazonian people need to understand the Gospel – because the message isn’t keep worshiping false idols.

    • #29
  30. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):
    Rather than take a “wait-and-see approach”, you could avail yourself of countless articles now on the internet on the Amazon Synod and the Pachamama topic.

    I have read several. Most regard what might have happened, rather than indisputable facts, because of conflicting accounts. But my role is no different whatever the circumstances: fast, pray, and know the real faith. I don’t really need the details of scandals.

    The devil is in the details. People were witnesses to what happened in the Vatican’s Papal gardens and have reported what they witnessed. Video and photos were taken. There isn’t much room to say what happened didn’t somehow happen. Those who engaged in the pagan worship were invited by the pope who watched and had a ringside seat. At no time, did he object to the proceedings.

    Popes and bishops have no authority to undo received doctrine. They can only deepen existing understanding of revelation. The corrupt can mislead souls away from Church teaching, but cannot uproot the Church.

    If the Pope practiced idolatry, and did not just sew confusion, I’m fairly sure he would be automatically excommunicated and no longer pope. Popes, like all priests, can do wicked things and yet be empowered to perform good in the sacraments. But I don’t think a pope could simultaneously be an unbeliever.

    To date the pope has not personally refuted an account that he told an Italian journalist that he did not believe Christ was God while on Earth. The Arian heresy. If he invited pagan worship into the Vatican he should ask forgiveness. To state that God wills the worship of other gods and religions is a heresy. Ample evidence and reasons are building that this pope no longer should be on the Throne of Peter.

    Obviously, all Catholics should be gravely concerned that our bishops and pope do not invite such evils. But the role of you and me in this is to clarify to neighbors and fellow Christians what is and is not Christian practice, to whatever degrees we are able, and not to demand a bishop’s head. If our shepherds need replacing, now or ever, only the bishops by God’s grace can sort that out.

    Canon Law actually states that the laity have an obligation to demand adherence to Catholic teaching by the clergy, so to that degree we are not powerless and are not restricted to commiseration amongst ourselves. To the extent that a priest, bishop, cardinal or pope strays from Catholic teaching, it’s the obligation of the laity to point that out and if necessary take measures to bring about corrective action – beginning with withholding funds from the Church, pointing out violations of law and reporting violations to law enforcement, staging protests, and challenging prelates face-to-face. 

     

    • #30

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