When the Woke Come for the Armed Forces

 

Men and women are the same and the only thing separating us is our sexual organs. This is the lie we’re being fed every day, all day. In countless ways, this lie has the potential to endanger our safety and our lives, and this is yet another example:

If women want to serve alongside men, they have to prove they are actually physically fit to do so. Weaker women serving in the army don’t just endanger themselves, they pose a risk for everyone around them. This is yet another way the woke Olympics hurts women under the guise of unattainable equality.

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  1. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    You don’t hear them fighting to become exterminators, crab fishermen off the Aleutian Islands, landfill workers… I guess women are more equal than men.

    That’s because women were already filling those roles without any “help” from feminism.

    This needs a sarcasm tag, right?

    I think the use of quotes indicates sarcasm as such . . .

    • #61
  2. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Juliana (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Juliana (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Exactly. If women are defending the country and putting their lives on the line, then what is the purpose of men?

    Why does it have to be one or the other? Working together, appropriately utilizing the strengths of both, seems to be a more realistic goal. And while I agree that women do not have the same physical strengths of men, that does not mean that men have no weaknesses.

     

    Strengths of both? Please. Too much political indoctrination there.

    Pray tell, what are men’s weaknesses?

    And yet you can’t list any.

    A seductive glance from a woman with a smokin’ hot body . . .

    • #62
  3. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I always opposed combat roles for women. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my view on that. We once realized men and women had different strengths. There are many jobs that don’t require the fitness level of a combat soldier. Rationality would dictate that women could fill those jobs.

    I understand we have operations in the continental USA running drones in the middle east.  I’d be fine with that.  But I’m imagining a mixed special forces team on a mission:  What could possibly go wrong?  Give me a break.

    • #63
  4. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    I am sure there is room for tweaking the requirements without sacrificing combat readiness, but if your reasoning for lowering standards is just to get more girls to pass, then you might be putting lives at risk.

    I’ve always thought the solution to the unnecessary “representation arguments” would be to go more woke. Something to the effect of:

    Thousands of men in American’s armies have been dying in war for centuries. If you look at the statistics, a staggering 99 percent of all casualites are male. This is sexist. We need more equality in casualties. Women should not only be on the front lines, but should be the first ones in, perhaps before we’ve even plotted a coherent strategy of attack, thus ensuring heavy female casualties.

    If done sincerely, you’d rope in at least one writer for Vox or the New York Times

    Proportionality! The Left loves it.

    • #64
  5. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    Can you picture Ret Gen Votel defending uniform Cross Fit type standards for women attempting Ranger and SF selection? Can’t see it.

    • #65
  6. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    The Woke came for the military a long time ago. When I was at Marine Corps OCS in 1986, the obstacle course featured a ramp on the first obstacle (a high bar) so women candidates could reach it. Men were not allowed to use the ramp and there were some shorter male candidates who had trouble reaching the bar. One of those candidates – a guy who could also run 3 miles in 15 minutes – was eventually kicked out. Not only for that, but it was a contributor. He’d have to take a running start and a number of attempts at the bar before finally getting it, all the while earning the wrath of the platoon sergeant.

    • #66
  7. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Don’t you watch NCIS? Haven’t you learned that a well-trained 85 pound female can easily best any 200 pound man in a fist fight? And besides that, the bad guys are very poor shots, missing almost every time while the heroes, male and female get perfect kills with a single shot while standing exposed. You know, reality TV for the masses. Or clever re-education for the masses. Don’t think this has no agenda nor impact.

    We’ve been binge watching NCIS, and have yet to see a female sniper-assassin. Sexist! Sexist!

    Keep watching. There’s a female North Korean super-assassin in season 7.

    We must have missed it. Is this the original NCIS?

    Yep.  Endgame, season 7, episode 7 (I did have to look this up).  The episode was focused on Director Vance.  She had previously killed his partner and shot him, but left him alive.  I think that it was Vance’s wife who ended up killing the assassin, in their home.

    • #67
  8. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    The Woke came for the military a long time ago. When I was at Marine Corps OCS in 1986, the obstacle course featured a ramp on the first obstacle (a high bar) so women candidates could reach it. Men were not allowed to use the ramp and there were some shorter male candidates who had trouble reaching the bar. One of those candidates – a guy who could also run 3 miles in 15 minutes – was eventually kicked out. Not only for that, but it was a contributor. He’d have to take a running start and a number of attempts at the bar before finally getting it, all the while earning the wrath of the platoon sergeant.

    I was in Golf company in first increment 85.  The ramp was there then, too. I didn’t think much of it because women weren’t allowed in combat back then.

    Edit:  All women had to be in Charlie company too.

    • #68
  9. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    A few observations – an Army Field Hospital unit had difficulty passing the annual ARTEP when there were not enough men in the unit to unload and set up the tents for the Hospital. For the record an Army GP Medium or GP Large tent weighs a BUNCH and is a pain to get out of the truck, man handle(errrr people handle?) into place and set up – less than half of the unit’s personnel were men(eventually got help from another unit to unload and set up the tentage- assistance than may or may not have been available if operationally deployed). When Army units deployed to Bosnia in the 90s it was a bad deployment. Living conditions were not good and it was winter. Several female soldiers got pregnant and were med-evaced to Germany as policy at the time was to not have pregnant soldiers in forward areas (no OBGYN care for starters). when the female solders got back to Germany several had abortions (but stayed in Germany because had already been replaced). Coincidence or just a quick way to get out of a lousy deployment? Opinions vary but up to you to decide. Also, Navy ships regularly deploy short a few female sailors who are assigned to the ship but are unable to sail because of they are pregnant (no OBGYN aboard ship) leaving their shipmates to take up the slack. Navy damage control procedure used to call for two sailors to carry an injured sailor to medical care but that was changed as two female (or even female and one male) sailors were significantly challenged to lift and carry the injured sailor. The standard was changed to 4 sailors doing the med evac – problem is that the passageways onboard ship are basically too narrow for that, but that was someone else’s issue. Also note that EVERY sailor onboard ship has responsibility for damage control…

    • #69
  10. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Skyler (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    The Woke came for the military a long time ago. When I was at Marine Corps OCS in 1986, the obstacle course featured a ramp on the first obstacle (a high bar) so women candidates could reach it. Men were not allowed to use the ramp and there were some shorter male candidates who had trouble reaching the bar. One of those candidates – a guy who could also run 3 miles in 15 minutes – was eventually kicked out. Not only for that, but it was a contributor. He’d have to take a running start and a number of attempts at the bar before finally getting it, all the while earning the wrath of the platoon sergeant.

    I was in Golf company in first increment 85. The ramp was there then, too. I didn’t think much of it because women weren’t allowed in combat back then.

    Edit: All women had to be in Charlie company too.

    Yeah, I was third platoon Charlie Company.

    During my time they were allowed defensive but not offensive combat missions. At TBS the male platoons would often assault a hill defended by the female platoon. There’s nothing quite as demoralizing as charging up a hill and discovering a female lieutenant with her pants down, squatting and dropping a load. You can’t unsee that.

    • #70
  11. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    There’s nothing quite as demoralizing as charging up a hill and discovering a female lieutenant with her pants down, squatting and dropping a load. You can’t unsee that.

    Back then all women lieutenants were in Fox company, so I’m guessing that’s where you were, or perhaps your year was when they decided to integrate the lieutenants into all the companies.  I was in Echo company 85.  I was wrong on the year for OCS, I was in Golf 84, first increment.

    • #71
  12. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Don’t you watch NCIS? Haven’t you learned that a well-trained 85 pound female can easily best any 200 pound man in a fist fight? And besides that, the bad guys are very poor shots, missing almost every time while the heroes, male and female get perfect kills with a single shot while standing exposed. You know, reality TV for the masses. Or clever re-education for the masses. Don’t think this has no agenda nor impact.

    We’ve been binge watching NCIS, and have yet to see a female sniper-assassin. Sexist! Sexist!

    Keep watching. There’s a female North Korean super-assassin in season 7.

    We must have missed it. Is this the original NCIS?

    Yep. Endgame, season 7, episode 7 (I did have to look this up). The episode was focused on Director Vance. She had previously killed his partner and shot him, but left him alive. I think that it was Vance’s wife who ended up killing the assassin, in their home.

    Thanks!  I guess we musta fallen asleep . . .

    • #72
  13. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Except that “combat” has almost never been conveniently linear, so the sentiment has little substantive meaning.

    What does that mean, “conveniently linear?”

    And if my objection is that I, personally, don’t want a woman (or child) defending me in a combat role, what does your observation have to do with that?

    Exactly. If women are defending the country and putting their lives on the line, then what is the purpose of men?

    Also, Clifford cites that some 50 year old men are not capable of passing the fitness standards. Well, as a man who retired at the age of 52, I say that those men should be tossed out. The military is not supposed to be a jobs program, or employment security for geezers. If the 50 year old can’t cut it, he needs to be shown the door.

    Actually, I said no such thing. Rather, I pointed out that the fitness standards, not physical standards, were scaled to measure general fitness by age and sex. So, the 38 year old First Sergeant did not need to run as fast as the 20 year olds to max his test, nor do as many pushups or sit ups. It was so for many decades, and had nothing to do with their ability to do their jobs.

    If you were in a light infantry unit, the real test was the company road march, in which the senior leaders most certainly had to lead. That and the various field exercises.

    • #73
  14. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):
    It turns out that battlefields, let alone “combat zones,” are not neatly segregated into “combat” and “non-combat” areas.

    Which is why women shouldn’t be anywhere nearby.

    There are always lines. Sometimes we get into wars where we are too extended and our lines are segmented, but there are always lines.

    Saying it does not make it so.

    • #74
  15. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    Plus, men naturally protect women. Having women anywhere near a combat zone, even just driving trucks or fixing planes, makes things more complicated. They’re not the same as the men, and the soldiers will do anything to protect them. That alone reduces combat effectiveness.

    That is just objectively not true. Hasn’t happened. Plenty of observed history starting in WWI.

    • #75
  16. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Vance Richards (View Comment):
    I am sure there is room for tweaking the requirements without sacrificing combat readiness, but if your reasoning for lowering standards is just to get more girls to pass, then you might be putting lives at risk.

    The brand new “requirements” are not demonstrably linked to actual combat readiness. If women, who have successfully performed their duties in Iraq and Afghanistan, are now being labeled as not meeting the new “standard,” you might wonder about what is actually being measured here.

    • #76
  17. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I always opposed combat roles for women. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my view on that. We once realized men and women had different strengths. There are many jobs that don’t require the fitness level of a combat soldier. Rationality would dictate that women could fill those jobs.

    I understand we have operations in the continental USA running drones in the middle east. I’d be fine with that. But I’m imagining a mixed special forces team on a mission: What could possibly go wrong? Give me a break.

    I guess you missed all the women deployed in all the services to both Iraq and Afghanistan. You’ve been the beneficiary of national defense provided by both men and women of the All Volunteer Force with women in the divisions confronting the Soviet Union, starting in 1985, and in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea. 

    • #77
  18. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Don’t you watch NCIS? Haven’t you learned that a well-trained 85 pound female can easily best any 200 pound man in a fist fight? And besides that, the bad guys are very poor shots, missing almost every time while the heroes, male and female get perfect kills with a single shot while standing exposed. You know, reality TV for the masses. Or clever re-education for the masses. Don’t think this has no agenda nor impact.

    We’ve been binge watching NCIS, and have yet to see a female sniper-assassin. Sexist! Sexist!

    Keep watching. There’s a female North Korean super-assassin in season 7.

    We must have missed it. Is this the original NCIS?

    Yep. Endgame, season 7, episode 7 (I did have to look this up). The episode was focused on Director Vance. She had previously killed his partner and shot him, but left him alive. I think that it was Vance’s wife who ended up killing the assassin, in their home.

    309 confirmed kills in 10 months. Withdrawn from sniper duty after she was severely wounded by mortar fire. After recovering and being sent to the U.S. to drum up support for the war, she returned to the USSR to teach snipers for the rest of the war.

    • #78
  19. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):
    Actually, I said no such thing. Rather, I pointed out that the fitness standards, not physical standards, were scaled to measure general fitness by age and sex. So, the 38 year old First Sergeant did not need to run as fast as the 20 year olds to max his test, nor do as many pushups or sit ups. It was so for many decades, and had nothing to do with their ability to do their jobs.

    So you just said it again.  Scaling the requirements by age is wrong, and it doesn’t matter how many decades they’ve been doing it.

    • #79
  20. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I always opposed combat roles for women. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my view on that. We once realized men and women had different strengths. There are many jobs that don’t require the fitness level of a combat soldier. Rationality would dictate that women could fill those jobs.

    I understand we have operations in the continental USA running drones in the middle east. I’d be fine with that. But I’m imagining a mixed special forces team on a mission: What could possibly go wrong? Give me a break.

    I guess you missed all the women deployed in all the services to both Iraq and Afghanistan. You’ve been the beneficiary of national defense provided by both men and women of the All Volunteer Force with women in the divisions confronting the Soviet Union, starting in 1985, and in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea.

    No, actually.  But you seem to justify indiscriminate assignment of females because we have previously survived limited assignment of females.  

    • #80
  21. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I always opposed combat roles for women. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my view on that. We once realized men and women had different strengths. There are many jobs that don’t require the fitness level of a combat soldier. Rationality would dictate that women could fill those jobs.

    I understand we have operations in the continental USA running drones in the middle east. I’d be fine with that. But I’m imagining a mixed special forces team on a mission: What could possibly go wrong? Give me a break.

    I guess you missed all the women deployed in all the services to both Iraq and Afghanistan. You’ve been the beneficiary of national defense provided by both men and women of the All Volunteer Force with women in the divisions confronting the Soviet Union, starting in 1985, and in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea.

    No, actually. But you seem to justify indiscriminate assignment of females because we have previously survived limited assignment of females.

    And it also ignores that none of those divisions had to fight a really tough battle.  We haven’t had a multi-division battle in many decades, and recently the largest size battles we’ve had were battalion sized, and a few with multiple battalions that were still very limited in scope.

    • #81
  22. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    Plus, men naturally protect women. Having women anywhere near a combat zone, even just driving trucks or fixing planes, makes things more complicated. They’re not the same as the men, and the soldiers will do anything to protect them. That alone reduces combat effectiveness.

    That is just objectively not true. Hasn’t happened. Plenty of observed history starting in WWI

    @cliffordbrown Sometimes I wonder about you. Where in history have women not turned to stronger men for protection?

     

     

    • #82
  23. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    @cliffordbrown Ever seen or competed in a Spartan Race. Men are helping women.

    • #83
  24. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    Plus, men naturally protect women. Having women anywhere near a combat zone, even just driving trucks or fixing planes, makes things more complicated. They’re not the same as the men, and the soldiers will do anything to protect them. That alone reduces combat effectiveness.

    That is just objectively not true. Hasn’t happened. Plenty of observed history starting in WWI.

    In his book On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, Dave Grossman comments on Israeli experience with women in combat roles. He described an observed phenomenon whereby highly disciplined male soldiers would lose that discipline as soon as a female soldier was injured. Similarly, when describing the normal mammalian reluctance, present in a the majority of humans, to kill a member of its own species, he mentions how a threat to woman or children would override that reluctance.

    I don’t know how accurate that is, nor how significant. But I would be very surprised if women in combat roles does not significantly change the dynamics of the combat group, once casualties occur.

    • #84
  25. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Suspira (View Comment):

    I always opposed combat roles for women. Nothing I’ve seen has changed my view on that. We once realized men and women had different strengths. There are many jobs that don’t require the fitness level of a combat soldier. Rationality would dictate that women could fill those jobs.

    I understand we have operations in the continental USA running drones in the middle east. I’d be fine with that. But I’m imagining a mixed special forces team on a mission: What could possibly go wrong? Give me a break.

    I guess you missed all the women deployed in all the services to both Iraq and Afghanistan. You’ve been the beneficiary of national defense provided by both men and women of the All Volunteer Force with women in the divisions confronting the Soviet Union, starting in 1985, and in the 2nd Infantry Division in Korea.

    No, actually. But you seem to justify indiscriminate assignment of females because we have previously survived limited assignment of females.

    And it also ignores that none of those divisions had to fight a really tough battle. We haven’t had a multi-division battle in many decades, and recently the largest size battles we’ve had were battalion sized, and a few with multiple battalions that were still very limited in scope.

    That’s something that has always bothered me, and it’s a delicate subject to bring up because you invariably get accused of not respecting the troops. Our total KIA in 18 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan is less than 7,000. Those servicemen gave the ultimate sacrifice and deserve our honor and respect – but Iraq and Afghanistan are not Iwo Jima, where the USMC lost more than 7,000 in a little more than 30 days. And it’s not Vietnam, where we had 50,000+ KIA in half a dozen years. Drawing lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan about what we can get away with in a full-on Iwo Jima style war is dodgy.

    • #85
  26. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Don’t you watch NCIS? Haven’t you learned that a well-trained 85 pound female can easily best any 200 pound man in a fist fight? And besides that, the bad guys are very poor shots, missing almost every time while the heroes, male and female get perfect kills with a single shot while standing exposed. You know, reality TV for the masses. Or clever re-education for the masses. Don’t think this has no agenda nor impact.

    We’ve been binge watching NCIS, and have yet to see a female sniper-assassin. Sexist! Sexist!

    Keep watching. There’s a female North Korean super-assassin in season 7.

    We must have missed it. Is this the original NCIS?

    Yep. Endgame, season 7, episode 7 (I did have to look this up). The episode was focused on Director Vance. She had previously killed his partner and shot him, but left him alive. I think that it was Vance’s wife who ended up killing the assassin, in their home.

    309 confirmed kills in 10 months. Withdrawn from sniper duty after she was severely wounded by mortar fire. After recovering and being sent to the U.S. to drum up support for the war, she returned to the USSR to teach snipers for the rest of the war.

     

    I’m not sure that WW2 Soviet-era combat doctrine should be our authority for current U.S. doctrine. These are the people whose method of clearing a minefield was to march a battalion over it, and the favored way to preserve morale in the attack was to place a row of machine guns on the departure line with orders to gun down anyone who returned. A major reason for the staggering Soviet casualties in WW2 was that they didn’t give a damn about lives – either men or women.

    • #86
  27. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    At its primal limit, combat consists of two individuals hitting each other until one of them dies. No amount of planning can prevent the possibility of the situation devolving to that.

    I don’t want any woman experiencing that on my behalf.

    Don’t you watch NCIS? Haven’t you learned that a well-trained 85 pound female can easily best any 200 pound man in a fist fight? And besides that, the bad guys are very poor shots, missing almost every time while the heroes, male and female get perfect kills with a single shot while standing exposed. You know, reality TV for the masses. Or clever re-education for the masses. Don’t think this has no agenda nor impact.

    We’ve been binge watching NCIS, and have yet to see a female sniper-assassin. Sexist! Sexist!

    Keep watching. There’s a female North Korean super-assassin in season 7.

    We must have missed it. Is this the original NCIS?

    Yep. Endgame, season 7, episode 7 (I did have to look this up). The episode was focused on Director Vance. She had previously killed his partner and shot him, but left him alive. I think that it was Vance’s wife who ended up killing the assassin, in their home.

    309 confirmed kills in 10 months. Withdrawn from sniper duty after she was severely wounded by mortar fire. After recovering and being sent to the U.S. to drum up support for the war, she returned to the USSR to teach snipers for the rest of the war.

     

    I’m not sure that WW2 Soviet-era combat doctrine should be our authority for current U.S. doctrine. These are the people whose method of clearing a minefield was to march a battalion over it, and the favored way to preserve morale in the attack was to place a row of machine guns on the departure line with orders to gun down anyone who returned. A major reason for the staggering Soviet casualties in WW2 was that they didn’t give a damn about lives – either men or women.

    It’s also probably worth restating the obvious: anecdotes don’t make good data. There is enormous overlap between men and women in most respects but, to the extent that we want our soldiers to exhibit traditionally masculine traits of strength, resilience, and aggression, we should expect relatively few women to find themselves way out on the masculine end of the overlapping bell curves of human sexuality.

    (Which remains largely irrelevant to me, as I don’t want to be protected by a woman.)

    • #87
  28. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    That’s something that has always bothered me, and it’s a delicate subject to bring up because you invariably get accused of not respecting the troops.

    There’s nothing disrespectful about it.  

    • #88
  29. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    It’s also probably worth restating the obvious: anecdotes don’t make good data. There is enormous overlap between men and women in most respects but, to the extent that we want our soldiers to exhibit traditionally masculine traits of strength, resilience, and aggression, we should expect relatively few women to find themselves way out on the masculine end of the overlapping bell curves of human sexuality.

    (Which remains largely irrelevant to me, as I don’t want to be protected by a woman.)

    While a Marine veteran, I’m not a combat veteran. But if you read the accounts of combat veterans, (e.g. Karl Marlantes’s great novel Matterhorn), the thing that comes through is that combat can devolve into a state-of-nature of the most elementary and brutal sort. I don’t see how anyone can read Jim Webb’s Fields of Fire and think a Marine night patrol along Charlie Ridge is a great place for women.

    That state-of-nature also occurs occasionally in civilian life. I remember reading accounts of the Superdome after Hurricane Katrina, which was proclaimed a sanctuary so people flocked to it. But they had no adequate organization, facilities or police at the dome, so it soon degenerated into a Mad Max style hellhole with roving gangs robbing, raping and occasionally killing people. How did people respond? They made defensive circles with the men on the ring and the women in the middle. The same thing they would have done in 20,000 BC.

    • #89
  30. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    It’s also probably worth restating the obvious: anecdotes don’t make good data.

    Yes.  This.  And I doubt it can be repeated too often.

    • #90
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