Quote of the Day: Turning Vice into Virtue

 

“Even a person who comes to embrace sexual desires traditionally regarded as disordered, and publicly to define his identity in terms of them, will often feel a residual sense of shame and guilt – and this despite the fact that attitudes about sex have liberalized, and the fact that many sympathize with him and are keen to reassure him of his virtue and status as a victim of prejudice. An Augustine or Aquinas would attribute this to the voice of conscience. Knowledge of the natural law, they would say, is never entirely destroyed even in the person most in thrall to vice. It is only ever papered over with layer upon layer of rationalization. And sometimes the truth still shines through, albeit dimly.

“…nothing counteracts lingering feelings of shame and moral failure the way that feelings of pride and self-righteousness can. The former can be masked if one can work oneself into the latter. One can tell oneself: ‘It is those who call what I do shameful who should be ashamed. They are the bad people – they are the bigots, haters, oppressors. And I am doing something noble in rejecting their opinions and fighting against them! Yes, that’s it!’ By a kind of psychological alchemy, vice is transformed into virtue and virtue into vice, and one’s self-esteem is thereby salvaged and even enhanced.” Edward Feser

Edward Feser is a Catholic, conservative philosopher. The entire blog is worth reading and I believe it helps explain current cultural demands to join, not in toleration or acceptance, but, in celebration of others’ vices. In addition, what do you think about the concept of natural law providing a moral conscience that can be suppressed, but not eradicated? Does natural law exist for someone even if they do not believe in it? Or is there always that nagging doubt about right and wrong? How does one gain knowledge of natural law?

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  1. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Juliana: Does natural law exist for someone even if they do not believe in it? Or is there always that nagging doubt about right and wrong? How does one gain knowledge of natural law?

    Romans 1:20 –

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    Good chapter. There was this worship song from ages ago that I really liked based on these verses… I Will Not Forget You:

    Many men will drink the rain… and turn to thank the clouds.

    He has revealed himself through his creation to all men. But we reject him and pervert that truth, creating false religions to justify why we worship clouds for rain instead of the creator.

    We still have vestiges of that revelation in us – our conscience – but Romans seems to indicate that constant suppression of it leads to God giving you over to your desires.

    • #1
  2. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Stina (View Comment):

    Good chapter. There was this worship song from ages ago that I really liked based on these verses… I Will Not Forget You:

    Many men will drink the rain… and turn to thank the clouds.

    He has revealed himself through his creation to all men. But we reject him and pervert that truth, creating false religions to justify why we worship clouds for rain instead of the creator.

    Apparently the song needs a comeback…

    http://ricochet.com/676444/mea-maxima-culpa-plantae/

     

    • #2
  3. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Juliana: Knowledge of the natural law, they would say, is never entirely destroyed even in the person most in thrall to vice. It is only ever papered over with layer upon layer of rationalization. And sometimes the truth still shines through, albeit dimly.

    Juliana,

    This is a very interesting take on the current mentality. What if there is an a priori moral imperative for heterosexual monogamous marriage? That would mean that it won’t matter what anybody says or does about it. The feeling of guilt will be aroused without any outside intervention.

    There is also an epidemic of suicide amongst the very young. High school students are in much greater peril from suicide than from a school shooter. I have always suspected that this is connected to the anti-moral sexual position that is now invested in American Law and taught in the schools.

    Just something to consider.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #3
  4. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    Stina (View Comment):

    We still have vestiges of that revelation in us – our conscience – but Romans seems to indicate that constant suppression of it leads to God giving you over to your desires.

    Do you think this could lead one to think that God gives up on you? Certainly He does not interfere with free will, and will welcome you back at any time, but I believe He also keeps His creation, His goodness and generosity in your view so that it’s much easier to open your heart to Him.

     

    • #4
  5. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Juliana (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    We still have vestiges of that revelation in us – our conscience – but Romans seems to indicate that constant suppression of it leads to God giving you over to your desires.

    Do you think this could lead one to think that God gives up on you? Certainly He does not interfere with free will, and will welcome you back at any time, but I believe He also keeps His creation, His goodness and generosity in your view so that it’s much easier to open your heart to Him.

     

    I don’t know. It’s kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn’t it?

    God is open to anyone seeking Him, but turns his face from those who constantly reject him.

    Seems the onus is on us to be open and seeking Him.

    If we aren’t, we slide until we are.

    • #5
  6. Vectorman Inactive
    Vectorman
    @Vectorman

    Juliana: In addition, what do you think about the concept of natural law providing a moral conscience that can be suppressed, but not eradicated? Does natural law exist for someone even if they do not believe in it? Or is there always that nagging doubt about right and wrong? How does one gain knowledge of natural law?

    If you define natural law as something like the Ten Commandments, then it does exist even for those who don’t believe in it. “Thou shalt not murder” is generally accepted by most cultures. However, other  Western Civilization ideals, such as women shouldn’t be treated as chattel, are not as universally regarded. Therefore it becomes harder to argue for a generalized natural law.


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    • #6
  7. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    There is also an epidemic of suicide amongst the very young. High school students are in much greater peril from suicide than from a school shooter. I have always suspected that this is connected to the anti-moral sexual position that is now invested in American Law and taught in the schools.

    I am not sure if this is connected specifically to the sexual laws/education as much as a general pullback from teaching any morals – from common courtesy to respect for the lives of others. I believe that stems from the general rejection of organized religion. So few are being directly taught natural law and morals.

     

    • #7
  8. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Juliana (View Comment):

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    There is also an epidemic of suicide amongst the very young. High school students are in much greater peril from suicide than from a school shooter. I have always suspected that this is connected to the anti-moral sexual position that is now invested in American Law and taught in the schools.

    I am not sure if this is connected specifically to the sexual laws/education as much as a general pullback from teaching any morals – from common courtesy to respect for the lives of others. I believe that stems from the general rejection of organized religion. So few are being directly taught natural law and morals.

     

    Juliana,

    Agreed.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #8
  9. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Juliana: “…and I believe it helps explain current cultural demands to join, not in toleration or acceptance, but, in celebration of others’ vices.”

    Me too.

     

    • #9
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