Is Niceness the Key to Red Pilling Liberals?

 

I have two very liberal friends complain to me recently that conservatives are too nice to hate. They complain that they only feel comfortable talking about their liberal politics… with conservatives. When they are among fellow liberals, all they face is anger; anger at Trump, anger at his voters, even anger at fellow liberals if they dare to step outside the woke-approved talking points.

As a result, these girlfriends find themselves in more political conversations with conservatives, and starting to come around to their points of view. They complain that the kindness from conservatives is “red-pilling” them, turning their opinions more conservative as a result.

I was reminded of these complaints with this:

 

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  1. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Yes, its very difficult to convince anyone of anything, if your opening statements to them are insults. It creates an extra barrier of distrust that has be breached before you can dig into the issue of debate. So yes, being civil is important. 

    Any of your lady friends single?

    • #1
  2. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    Sort of similar to the awakening some comedians have been experiencing over the past few years, that the liberals they had been all-in with have now become angry and intolerant of any dissent, and they’re starting to push back on all that SJW wokeness.

    The caveat here would be the possible Daniel Patrick Moynihan problem. For four decades Moynihan provided conservatives with some of the best analysis and usable sound bites in critiquing the failures of liberal governance. But in nearly a quarter-century as U.S. Senator, every time push came to shove, he’d vote with the Democrats, despite knowing that their plans were doomed to failure.

    That could be where the wavering liberals are right now. They might be open to other arguments because of how nasty other liberals act. But when it comes to actually jumping ship, they may balk if the Democrats offer one iota of hope that things might get better with them after 2020 (i.e. — you might need a Bernie or Liz as nominee, going full-bore on socialism and angry woke politics to get them to mark Trump on the ballot. If it’s Biden, they’ll take their chances that wacky-but-lovable Uncle Joe really will turn back the clock to the Obama years).

    • #2
  3. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Bethany,

    Ahaaa.. they’re on to us now! For a while there we had them going with our nice act. Really playing with their head. Yep, cause deep down we’re really, really, mean! 

    Bethany ever get the feeling that the Democratic Party is really about “Bedtime Stories”. You see Democrats want their candidates to tell them nice bedtime stories and tuck them in. Republican’s just don’t know how to do that right. The silly Republicans treat people courteously like adults. Finally, this confuses the poor Democrats terribly.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #3
  4. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Yeah, Marianne, dahlin’, give me a call. I’ll explain to you the truth.

    • #4
  5. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    This very thing happened to a former co-worker. He is a decent, pleasant guy who was also a Hillary supporter until he got jumped for questioning one of the articles of the progressive faith. It opened his eyes. Last I knew, he held quite a few conservative positions.

    • #5
  6. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    But, isn’t the “niceness” FOX is showing her a kind of exploitation. She is essentially a human freak-show. So they coax her on for the entertainment of their audience. Some people are nice to their performing animals. To Republicans she is a fun curiosity showing how odd the left is.  To Democrats she is an unserious distraction diluting their “serious” debate and deliberations with her nonesense. 

    • #6
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Bethany Mandel:

    I was reminded of these complaints with this:

     

    @bethanymandel, is something missing after this sentence?

    • #7
  8. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    There are hundreds of #Walkaway videos, and this is one of the common threads.

    The pattern is generally

    1. Honest liberal guy or gal sees some claim, usually about Trump, they discover is untrue or misleading, and in the spirt of fairness, point it out to their lefty friends.

    2. Strong pushback occurs, prompting the innocent liberal to do more research. More discrepancies are found.

    3. Intolerant and hateful reactions come forth. Our liberal friend is accused of all kinds of thought-crimes by people he/she’s known their entire lives.

    4. More research is done in lonely despair.

    5. They decide they are not wrong and come to terms with losing their ‘friends’

    6. They are embraced by conservatives, who don’t seem to mind that they don’t agree with them on various issues, but appreciate their fairness and openness to alternative views.

     

    • #8
  9. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    But, isn’t the “niceness” FOX is showing her a kind of exploitation. She is essentially a human freak-show. So they coax her on for the entertainment of their audience. Some people are nice to their performing animals. To Republicans she is a fun curiosity showing how odd the left is. To Democrats she is an unserious distraction diluting their “serious” debate and deliberations with her nonesense.

    Val,

    Oh, you mean like David Brooks or Brett Stephens being interviewed by CNN. CNN brings out their magic pseudo-conservative talking parrots so they can ask them loaded questions to which they will mindlessly agree.

    Odd, I thought that Marianne had real integrity. Like she never really did think that the Democratic Party were the backstabbing weasels that they are. Just amazing. Every day a new discovery.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #9
  10. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    But, isn’t the “niceness” FOX is showing her a kind of exploitation. She is essentially a human freak-show. So they coax her on for the entertainment of their audience. Some people are nice to their performing animals. To Republicans she is a fun curiosity showing how odd the left is. To Democrats she is an unserious distraction diluting their “serious” debate and deliberations with her nonesense.

    Val,

    Oh, you mean like David Brooks or Brett Stephens being interviewed by CNN. CNN brings out their magic pseudo-conservative talking parrots so they can ask them loaded questions to which they will mindlessly agree.

    Odd, I thought that Marianne had real integrity. Like she never really did think that the Democratic Party were the backstabbing weasels that they are. Just amazing. Every day a new discovery.

    Regards,

    Jim

    There’s a certain irony in the fact that the last conservative columnist at the New York Times who stuck his neck out very far and then got it chopped off was one William Kristol, who the paper dumped in early 2009 after Obama’s election. They could probably have a rapprochement now, except that the paper’s current set of conservative columnists is very pliant in knowing how far they can go in saying something that triggers the paper’s readership, before they pull back and say something bad about conservatives, in order to remain in good standing with upper management.

    • #10
  11. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bethany Mandel:

    I was reminded of these complaints with this:

     

    @bethanymandel, is something missing after this sentence?

    There is a Twitter clip showing Marianne’s hot microphone moment.

    • #11
  12. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    It never fails that the people who feel themselves to be in control get stupid enough to show disrespect for the humanity of people who don’t see it their way. And that’s always an opening for the other side.

    By radiating kindness and humility, you on the other side undermine your opponent’s credibility.  When people who have been told by the Left that conservatives are hate-filled racists and fascists keep repeatedly finding Conservatives to be  gentle, orderly, receptive, and polite in their behavior with everyone, they start asking themselves: about what else might they (the Left) be lying or just completely wrong ? Sometimes people asking themselves this even go as far as investigating the question. If more of the truth is on your side, what could be better ?

    I think St. Paul was reflecting a complete understanding of this  Judo aspect of treating others as you would want to be treated when he said somewhere that Christians should be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.

    As for Marianne Williamson, she’s a plant. Isn’t she ?

    • #12
  13. I Shot The Serif Member
    I Shot The Serif
    @IShotTheSerif

    I knew someone in school who became conservative because his classmates weren’t willing to engage properly.

    • #13
  14. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left. 

    • #14
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    I’ve been giving this a lot of thought and will be writing about it. I don’t think catering to them or imitating them is the answer. There are other paths, and we just haven’t defined them well. Part of the reason might be because we don’t understand them–we judge by the symptoms and don’t drill down to the disease; we come up for solutions when we don’t even comprehend the problem. More later.

    • #15
  16. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Re: 14

    The tactics and demeanor of the Left might actually be more effective for people trying to push changes based on a false but appealing idea of human nature. It doesn’t follow the same works best for people out to protect freedom.

    What conservatives are telling people is both true and not usually anything anyone would want to believe. Your demeanor had better predispose them to listen, think, doubt, examine evidence, etc, or they won’t. Your demeanor is practically the only counter to the Left having the more appealing message.

    The only tactics both the Left and Conservatives can use are probably humor, empathy and charm. Beyond that, we Conservatives pretty much have only demonstrating goodwill and integrity.

    • #16
  17. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Franco (View Comment):
    Franco

    There are hundreds of #Walkaway videos, and this is one of the common threads.

    The pattern is generally

    1. Honest liberal guy or gal sees some claim, usually about Trump, they discover is untrue or misleading, and in the spirt of fairness, point it out to their lefty friends.

    2. Strong pushback occurs, prompting the innocent liberal to do more research. More discrepancies are found.

    3. Intolerant and hateful reactions come forth. Our liberal friend is accused of all kinds of thought-crimes by people he/she’s known their entire lives.

    4. More research is done in lonely despair.

    5. They decide they are not wrong and come to terms with losing their ‘friends’

    6. They are embraced by conservatives, who don’t seem to mind that they don’t agree with them on various issues, but appreciate their fairness and openness to alternative views.

    It would be worthwhile to make this into a whole post. This pattern is well worth discussing. 

    • #17
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    You know how in the movies the ref tells the boxers that he wants a good clean fight and the bad guy boxer cheats with weighted gloves, and hits below the belt, and bites the good guy’s ear? 

    But the good guy wins! 

    Politics is not a movie. 

     

    • #18
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    TBA (View Comment):

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    You know how in the movies the ref tells the boxers that he wants a good clean fight and the bad guy boxer cheats with weighted gloves, and hits below the belt, and bites the good guy’s ear?

    But the good guy wins!

    Politics is not a movie.

    FWIW, I don’t think we should adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left. 

    But we would be fools to rule them out. 

    • #19
  20. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    In all things, there is a season.

    • #20
  21. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    In all things, there is a season.

    Simon and Garfunkle are weirdly quotable. You think they were working from some ancient text or something. 

    • #21
  22. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    You think they were working from some ancient text or something. 

    😜

    • #22
  23. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    Drusus (View Comment):

    And yet, a loud chunk of the party is claiming that in order to “win,” we have to adopt the tactics and demeanor of the Left.

    In all things, there is a season.

    Simon and Garfunkle are weirdly quotable. You think they were working from some ancient text or something.

    So are the Byrds

    • #23
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