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Cultural Appropriation: Dumb Concept. Intimidation Weapon… Prove Me Wrong
I write this to respond in part to @AlecDent‘s cultural appropriation article in National Review. While I agree with the main thesis that “sksksksksksk” is not cultural appropriation, I disagree with Mr. Dent’s opinions expressed below:
The concept of cultural appropriation is hardly new, but the linguistic policing that serves as the basis for the BuzzFeed article takes it to a new level. Accusations of cultural appropriation are usually leveled against white people who adopt elements of another ethnicity’s culture in a way that is perceived as making light of that culture’s history and traditions….
Not true. The loony left does not limit “cultural appropriation to “making light” of another culture. To the contrary, it is an intimidation tactic to reward and aggrandize those the left sees as “historically oppressed people.” The emphasis here is on intimidation. That is the leftist goal.
I agree that true cultural appropriation is wrong and should be guarded against. Caucasians have been historically privileged in American society, and it would be wrong of us to commodity or in any way diminish the cultures of historically oppressed peoples.
Almost everything I see reported to be “cultural appropriation” has nothing to do with “diminish[ing] the cultures of historically oppressed people.” It is a natural result when cultures meet and meld. The dominant culture adopts those aspects that appeals to it for whatever reason. It is generally not about making light of anybody or hurting anybody. It could be on occasion, but not generally.
Let us all celebrate St. Patrick’s Day. Let us all celebrate Cinco de Mayo. If a young woman wants to wear and oriental-style dress to her prom because it looks good on her, that has nothing to do with “making light of historically oppressed peoples.” And what nutcase would make the claim that the Chinese in China are oppressed by anyone but their own government anyway?
I frequently see young lefties wearing dreadlocks. Did they get castigated for cultural appropriation? No. They’re obviously lefties. They are not the intended objects of the intimidation.
Cultural appropriation as a concept is a big crock of nothing-burger. Prove me wrong
Published in Culture
Don’t forget the fighting Irish. Images of drunken Irishmen! I’m Irish. Should I be offended? I think not!
What about the University of Pennsylvania Quakers? How can you urge Quakers to fight, fight, fight?
You, seem to me, to lean strongly on ignorance as a defense. I don’t think ignorance is a defense, nor should someone offended take your ignorance as a reason not to be offended. Choosing to not understand some else point of view may be your right but does not make your actions laudable.
I have made clear the difference between how “appropriation” is used domestically by American critics of culture and the legitimate feelings when their culture is misused and miss applied or exploited for money.
I gave you an analogy to help you understand and I noticed that you ignored it. Why is that? Why do you want further explanation when you ignore the one offered?
Since you go back to this over and over again. Your ignorance of others and how they view the products of their culture does not make their feelings or beliefs illegitimate. They may have no claim against you or actions they can take for redress but you do not make the others view illegitimate.
Again you can ask an American “What American food do you miss the most?” and a very normal American can easily reply, “Mexican.” That is perfectly normal. That is not normal in large swaths of the world. It is normal as an American that you would find it odd that someone could misuse or exploit food that is native to another culture, the idea does not make sense to you. It does make sense to billions of others however, knowing that is useful and does you no harm.
We are talking past each other. Say you were gainfully employed at Mt. Vernon and feeding your family and whenever the hordes of tourists came from China they kept asking you about all of Washington’s jokes, based on this extremely popular movie in China where Washington was a Forrest Gump like character that stumbled into being the first President of the United States. They wanted to see things and were only really interested that had to do with Washington’s humor, most of which was fake. So you dutifully showed them the humor displays and laughed at “Washington’s Jokes” and all.
Then when the rich African Tourists came they knew Washington was a mass murderer horror figure and Mt. Vernon dutifully had a “Slave Dungeon” set up to show where Washington murdered his victims. You of course had a part of your presentation where you defended Washington and talked about how he freed his slaves but the tourists pretty much checked out of that part of your presentation. Would you not as an American feel a little be angry, frustrated and cynical and wished someone knew the real story of Washington? Could you feel, perhaps, that Washington’s appropriation by others was a bit insulting?
Did I not address this directly in my comments?
Brian, I’m skeptical. I’m sure that some people object to “appropriation” of their “culture” by Americans; some people object to almost anything done by Americans if there’s a hook they can hang their objection on. But I find it difficult to believe that a great many non-Americans would find something so trivial as our calling Taco Bell “Mexican food” offensive.
Having said that, I can’t bring myself to care. I certainly can’t imagine being apologetic about it, or refraining from copying and changing aspects of other cultures that we find appealing. I’m sure that’s a reflection of my own values, and that those values clash with some fraction of the global population. That’s fine: in many instances, I think my values are better. I’m willing to wait for the rest of the world to get over it.
This seems like an argument that if I can dismiss any complaint about America I can dismiss them all. Surely you are not making that argument?
So let’s say this is an actual problem, I believe it is not a problem, but for the sake of argument let’s say it is. Then let’s say you needed to interact with some one from Mexico and in the course of this interaction you called Taco Bell Mexican food. When you did they furrowed their brow and looked a little angry and denounced Taco Bell as not real Mexican food. What should you do?
A. Denounce them for being a snowflake and force them to admit that Taco Bell IS REAL MEXICAN food if you say it is.
B. Offer some mild sympathy and show some interest in learning the difference between what you called Mexican food and “real” Mexican food. Around them you might even call food at Taco Bell, Taco Bell food, instead of Mexican food.
I think B. is the better way to go. If they demand more of you than a version of B. then they are rude and not worth dealing with for very long.
Now if a Domestic Liberal wants to brow beat you about Taco Bell, since they have no justification for doing so, you may dismiss them out of hand, dismantle their silly arguments, as time allows, point out their rank hypocrisy or demand an apology from them for wasting your time. All the above is perfectly fine and depends on the situation and the time you have.
It is hard to walk in someone else shoes or see their opinions as valid. Still that should not keep us from feeling sympathy, or from being kind or for showing some understanding and in turn being grateful for living in a country and in a Culture that has no need to care about “appropriation”.
“Well, I had a cricket taco once, from a hipster DC place claiming to be authentic Mexican. If that’s really what Mexican food is, you should be happy I associate taco bell with Mexican food.”
But really, I’m far more guilty of thinking Habanero’s or Chuy’s are Mexican food that dorito-wrapped chalupas from Taco Bell.
To Add:
I agree with Brian that it can be offensive to have your culture appropriated, but specifically when it is done by people who hate you (as opposed to respect). Take The Little Mermaid, for instance. The number of times I hear that white Americans have no culture and that we aren’t allowed to borrow from other cultures, to see genuine white culture being taken by people who would say all whites are oppressors…
Yeah. I get the offense.
But it isn’t really one I go around wearing on my sleeve. And because I decided to make a big deal about it in a comment defending “cultural appropriation”, I shall now go make a sign declaring myself “racist”.
It is obvious that you have not accurately understood my argument. It is not about ignorance being a defense. It is about non-appropriation being a defense.
People get offended by all sorts of things, but that does not mean their taking of offense is legitimate or justified.
It is also clear to me that you and I have different understandings of the word “clear.” You believe that you have made “clear the difference between how ‘appropriation ‘is used domestically by American critics of culture and the legitimate feelings when their culture is misused and miss applied [sic.] or exploited for money.” You have given examples that you believe are misappropriation, but you did not explain why you believe those to be misappropriation of anyone’s culture. I and others pointed out that they do not seem to be an appropriation at all, much less some sort of wrongful or immoral misappropriation.
OK. Let’s examine that. You said,
I disagree that there is any legitimacy to Romanians being miffed about people of other cultures embracing Romanian mythology (even if Dracula were a Romanian mythological character rather than the fiction invention of Bran Stoker) and expanding upon the mythology in stories, movies, and even cartoons. It would be different if the Romanians worshipped Dracula as a religion. I can certainly understand being miffed at blasphemy, but not at mythology of a non-religious nature. By analogy to you’re assumed Dracula mythology, the Irish should be legitimately miffed by all the depictions of leprechauns finding pots of gold at the end of the rainbow.
This argument makes no sense to me, except to attack me rather than my argument. I have never heard anyone complain about anyone of another culture enjoyed the originating culture’s food. Ever. If you know of actual specific examples, provide them. Don’t simply pretend that some legitimate feelings exist. Besides, where is the appropriation of anything in liking another culture’s food?
Again the argument is not clear here. If an American’s favorite food is Mexican-style as presented back home, how is that an appropriation (much less misappropriation) of another’s (presumably a Mexican’s) culture?
If a Mexican ex-patriot opens a Mexican food restaurant in the United States and American like it, how is that misappropriation of anyone’s culture? When I see Chinese restaurants in Rome, who should be offended? The Italians? Or the Chinese? Whose offense am I ignorant about in that example?
Cultural borrowings are the natural order of civilizations from the beginning. Mocking cultural icons is wrong. But mocking is not what claims of “cultural appropriation” are about.
So if all the world thought George Washington was a country bumpkin, or a sadistic killer you would think nothing of it? It would not even stir a bit of pride in who Washington really was? You would be very happy to think that most of the world thought of a real American Hero as a joke or a villain? Maybe you do feel that way I don’t think most Americans would. Further if an American was upset at how George Washington was misused his or her feelings would not be invalidated by your personal indifference.
What an odd thing to think. Why would you think one follows from the other?
What do they call Turkish Coffee in Greece? What do they call Turkish Coffee in Georgia? Why do they do that? Who invented flat bread with cheese inside of it and who makes it better?
Over such questions fists fights have broken out.
Feelings of appropriation rarely if ever arise because you like another culture’s food. More along lines of saying that Mexico never contributed anything of value to the world by skipping over the origin of corn. Assuming Corn is just natural outside of Mexico. Native Mexicans invented corn. That is more along the lines of legitimate feelings of appropriation.
Who made that claim?
What are you talking about where did you get this stuff from?
So let’s say this is an actual problem, I believe it is not a problem, but for the sake of argument let’s say it is. Then let’s say you needed to interact with some one from Mexico and in the course of this interaction you called Taco Bell Mexican food. When you did they furrowed their brow and looked a little angry and denounced Taco Bell as not real Mexican food. What should you do?
A. Denounce them for being a snowflake and force them to admit that Taco Bell IS REAL MEXICAN food if you say it is.
B. Offer some mild sympathy and show some interest in learning the difference between what you called Mexican food and “real” Mexican food. Around them you might even call food at Taco Bell, Taco Bell food, instead of Mexican food.
I think B. is the better way to go. If they demand more of you than a version of B. then they are rude and not worth dealing with for very long.
Now if a Domestic Liberal wants to brow beat you about Taco Bell, since they have no justification for doing so, you may dismiss them out of hand, dismantle their silly arguments, as time allows, point out their rank hypocrisy or demand an apology from them for wasting your time. All the above is perfectly fine and depends on the situation and the time you have.
And….
The entirety of my Comment 23
Not wearing it on your sleeve is admirable. That is the path to greater happiness. At the same time sympathy and understanding of your position would lessen the feelings of mild anger you feel at being appropriated. Which is what I advocate for, and I think on balance is beneficial.
Also if you did make a really big deal out of it and demanded special treatment and the like you would be the one that is a jerk. Like was universally true of the people complaining about a White Girl wearing a Chinese inspired dress. They were stupid jerks. I am sure that very few to no actual Chinese would have ever been offended by that girl or that dress.
The Sound of Music???!!!
That’s not cultural appropriation, it’s simply culturally appropriate Julie Andrews worship. I’m fully on board.
“Die Hugel sind lebendig . . . “
Sure I love the Sound of Music and how could any man not be in love with Julie Andrews by the end of that movie?!
I have been to Salzburg though and since the Sound of Music is the main way that Americans even know that Salzburg exists the many liberties and inaccuracies that movie contains about Austrians and Salzburg grates a bit. I find that understandable while not allowing it to impact the great joy I feel at watching the movie.
@brianwolf I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issues. Let’s take it from the top a bit. The left’s version of cultural appropriate is a person of American culture using anything associated with another culture. This is a weapon of control and intimidation by the left. That, I think, is not what you are taking about as “cultural appropriation.”
I find it difficult to parse through your comments to find a common enough thread to extract the definition you are using.
Mocking another’s cultural icon is not cultural appropriation, but it is rude. We certainly agree on the final phrase if not the initial phrase. You lump it into cultural appropriation, but we will never agree on that if you do.
Getting the national origin wrong for a dog species isn’t cultural appropriate either. It is error or ignorance. However, I can at least see the argument for it.
You refer to fistfights about what constitutes Turkish coffee, but without understanding definition of cultural appropriation you are using, it is hard to understand what relevance such fistfights might have (or who was fighting and about what exactly). That is, you feel that some folks can have legitimate gripes about cultural appropriation, but if so, by what definition of that term?
Here is the definition of cultural appropriation from dictionary.com:
I doubt that quoted definition applies to the Turkish coffee fights example. Or the Buddhist rituals (meditation?) example. Again, what is your definition?
The Left’s version of cultural appropriation is a political weapon they use to deconstruct white privilege and it is silly. There really isn’t any argument for that stuff that survives the lightest scrutiny. America was built on “appropriation” as the Left uses it and it is part of our nature. We have a hard time understanding it because we have a hard time thinking of a time where we have been appropriated in a way that insulted us. Frankly we are too powerful for that to happen.
One of the few times that appropriation might be appropriate domestically would be the early Rock years were artists like Elvis would take themes, moves and musical styles from Black musicians and culture and use those things to make a ton of money. Money that the Black artists were prevented from making themselves by the legal regime we had in America at that time. What we “owe”, or if we even owe anyone anything for that, beyond sympathy and understanding of that grievance is a different question. But I would not call a Black Artist at the time of Elvis feeling a bit abused or angry about Elvis’ success unreasonable.
In most cases what the Left calls appropriation is bunk. Yet people do justifiably feel appropriated.
Knowingly calling a dog bred in a different culture and by a different people your own dog breed is not appropriation? Interesting. In that case I can see why you don’t think appropriation can exist.
That definition works but take out minority, since it can happen to very large communities but usually only by a people of greater cultural and financial clout.
Sure, I think it does Greeks don’t want to call Turkish Coffee, Turkish and claim that it is Greek Coffee because they hate the Turks. The Turks feel offended by that because they invented it and it is Turkish coffee. Greeks claim they invented it and Turks took it from them. Georgians call it Turkish for that reason but not around Greeks.
The cheese bread called Kachapouri is made in Georgia and is a significant cultural marker for them, countries around Georgia also claimed to have invented it and therefore try to “steal” it from the Georgians. The Georgians get very aggrieved about this because it is “their” invention. Who invented wine is a very big issue. Georgian and Persian diplomats have argued over this in official settings. It is a point of contention in diplomatic circles. Perhaps you believe Georgians and Persians should not care who invented wine. That is perfectly fine for you to be indifferent to it but the fact is they do care about who invented it and it matters to them and they are not wrong to care about it. Even if I don’t personally share their concern. Though it was the Georgians that invented it just for the record.
We don’t get to say what is or is not a cultural marker for other people’s culture. If they see something “stolen”, misused, misidentified or otherwise exploited that is important to them then we should at least acknowledge their feelings and show some sympathy. Americans attacking Americans for being Americans is almost always silly, with a very few exceptions, which is what, in the end, American lefty do when they complain about appropriation. I won’t apologize for watching a Vampire movie but I can certainly listen for a few minutes to a Romanian tell me the real story of Vlad the Impaler if he wishes.
What are you referring to here? My example of people appropriating George Washington? Do you classify that as mocking a cultural icon? I am just trying to get where you are coming from here.
We agree. on this.
We disagree on this, and I think this goes to the heart of what you are saying. Before I address it, let me say that I understand that the only punishment for cultural appropriation is that members of the culture from which the appropriation is taken have legitimate rights to feel abused or angry about it. Do I understand you correctly?
The first problem with you example is that all jazz comes from the same source: black musicians. Is every white jazz musician today supposed to feel guilty? Does every black person have a right to feel angry or abused that persons other than black musicians play jazz? Do black musicians really have the right to feel abused or angry because Elvis Presley (and, by the way all Rock N Rollers beginning with Bill Haley and His Comets) melded some elements of the style to make a new style (or evolved style, if you prefer) that was more successful commercially? Don’t forget that it was not only white musicians who were commercially successful.
The second problem with the example goes to the origins of the style supposedly appropriated. Didn’t that style come from the borrowings of previous styles? Did the black musicians invent their instruments? Their style may have been new and unique, but it was still an outgrowth of previous music. Musical evolution is all about borrowings.
The bottom line for me is that I don’t see this type of evolution as any cultural appropriate that legitimizes feelings of anger or abuse.
FYI, nothing in your earlier post about dog breeding did you refer to anything misidentification of the source of a dog breed as being “knowing.” If that were the case, I can see your point. Anything to back that up? Not that it matters. Even if it is a hypothetical, it makes your point. It is a pretty rare case, though.
My problem with “cultural appropriation” is that the idea of it and the aggrieved feelings it engenders stem from the idea that someone, black Americans, say, owns their culture. They do not.
Once the cultural artifact is out there where people can hear it (music) or see it (hoop earrings) it no longer belongs to the first to come up with it. Jews don’t own Yiddish words. Blacks don’t own jazz or rock or even hip-hop. Mexicans don’t own burritos. The idea that they do is absurd and flies in the face of how culture actually works and how it crosses demographic lines. All culture, without exception, is an amalgam of other cultures.
In a melting pot country like this one everyone should recognize that they are going to have to let go of their cultural patrimony or, if they insist that only Mexicans can sell burritos and only blacks can rap, and only Hispanic girls can wear hoop earrings, there is going to be civil war.
Yes they have legitimate rights to feel abused and we should at least be sympathetic to those feelings. Anything beyond that is very much case specific. I suppose I could at least imagine a situation where the appropriated are actually owed something more than that, but it is hard to find real world examples where something more is owed.
You are comparing different cases and different circumstances and calling them the same thing. Everyone knew where Jazz came from, Elvis’ inspiration was not known and his moves were portrayed as unique to him.
The musicians alive at that time do. I only used Elvis as the most famous examples, I agree all early rockers were guilty but some were inspire by Elvis himself and not Black Music. And yes just because some Black entertainers were successful in the fifties and sixties does not mean they were on the same playing field as Elvis or other white Rockers. They Rockers didn’t even acknowledge their influence. I think if they felt annoyed, overlooked, insulted and were put out by that they would be owed sympathy by neutral observers. If they were competing on an even playing field and Elvis just used their moves and music more effectively or he had credited them with his inspiration they would have no case, nor be owed sympathy.
Cultural evolution and appropriation are not the same thing. Cultural evolution is beyond anyone’s control and has to be accepted as fact like a thunderstorm. I can be mad at thunderstorm all day but the storm does not care. Elvis however was free to share credit for his style of music and the inspiration for some of his moves that made him so wildly popular and famous. He chose not to do that, therefore, he was in the wrong.
The Soviets didn’t want the Georgians to get credit for unique breed of Dog. They were politically motivated to hide it. It has a more neutral name now but that is only due to the fact of this bogus dispute between Georgia and Russia.
Yes real appropriation is fairly rare but it does happen.
This is true, as far as it goes. But say a comedian built a funny schtick using yiddish words. He claimed that he invented these words because they sounded funny and denied they were yiddish.
I think Yiddish speaking Jews are entitled to feel a little cheated and not like the comedian that stole their words. We could be at least sympathetic to their plight and should say that the comedian in question should acknowledge that he was using yiddish words and that he did not invent them himself.
Not appropriation, A White dude that likes and plays Jazz says, “I went to a Jazz club, heard Jazz music for the first time and was just blown away. Now I play jazz and love it.”
Appropriation A White dude says, “I was alone in my room trying to write music, I just started to play and soon I discovered a new way to do music. I like to call it Jazz.”
If some African Americans attack the first guy they are foolish cranks and can be easily dismissed.
If they attack the second guy, well I sympathize with them, that guy is a jerk, at the least.
If someone makes a false claim of authorship that is one thing. I don’t have any problem with criticizing him for it. But this is not the kind of cultural appropriation that is causing grief across university campuses at the moment. Instead, it is the notion that white people (it’s always white people) should not wear dreads, should not wear hoop earrings, should not wear bindis, should not celebrate Cinco de Mayo, should not make burritos out of a food truck, should not operate an ethnic restaurant unless of that ethnicity, and so on.
Consider the mentality of people who would boycott two white women (in Portland) for having the effrontery to sell burritos, of people who would object to a young girl’s Chinese-style prom dress, who would physically attack a college kid for wearing dreads. This is the level of “appropriation” that I am seeing and reacting to.
Let me go through this again. Appropriation does actually exist and people do feel aggrieved by it and they deserve some sympathy for that and perhaps some acknowledgment. At the same time nearly all, but not all, claims of Appropriation in America by Americans are total bunk. It is wise to understand what real appropriation is so that we can powerfully destroy the false claims. It is good to not have one reflexive action towards a claim of appropriation.
That is the core of most legitimate claims of appropriation. The other is an obvious misuse of a historical or culturally important figure. Like Romanians resenting an anti-muslim Warlord and defender of Romanian being turned into a murderous undead Vampire. Once you get beyond these two core tenants you probably don’t have a legitimate claim to appropriation.
I will point out here that in almost every case victims of appropriation deserve nothing more than sympathy and understanding. I can understand a Romanian point of view but still enjoy a good vampire movie about Vlad…
Yes this is total idiocy and should always be opposed vigorous people that make such claims should be publicly shamed. Don’t allow them to leverage legitimate claims of appropriation into their false crazy charges.
Yes your reaction to false claims is clearly justified. My warning is to just note that not all claims are false and being aware of that helps to make fewer false steps in crushing those that make false claims. One would not want to dismiss the obviously false charges of Blaisey-Ford, against Kavanuagh by claiming all rape claims are false. Obviously.
Perhaps you think I am being too cautious or I am making some other tactical mistake but I think you can better understand my position now. I think it is help but others can think it not so helpful….
Area 51 is real!
And what about William’s College mascot?