12(b)(6): So What Do You Want Me To Do About It?

 

I’m a collector of odd facts. This is how I have a favorite out-of-context Bible verse (I don’t care that Matthew 10:34 isn’t part of the Nativity readings; it’s far more relevant to the modern celebration of Christmas than Luke 2:14), a favorite business tax deduction (breast implants to bring the exotic dancer’s cups to size N), and even a favorite medical code (Y93.D1: Injured while knitting or crocheting). So it shouldn’t be much surprise that I also have a favorite Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6): Failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

Let me back up a bit to explain this one. The rules of civil procedure govern lawsuits, and rule 12, in particular, is about motions and pleadings to be done before a matter goes to trial. The defendant has the right to make a motion that the suit be dismissed in a summary judgment, where the facts the plaintiff provides are assumed to be true and the judge makes a ruling on the law.

What does that mean in plain English? Say you own a house and a mentally ill vegan moves in. She’s so upset at the smell of your backyard grilling she sues you for everything her lawyer can think of: intentional affliction of emotional distress, trespass (of the smoke), and odor nuisance. You don’t want to waste any more time and money on this than you have to, so you request the suit to be dismissed on the grounds of Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6). In that, you agree that yes, you are grilling; yes, smoke does cross onto her airspace; yes, she can smell cooking meat on her property when you use your grill. You are asking the judge, “So what do you want me to do about it?”A sane judge would then dismiss the case on the ground that cooking meat does not rise to the intentional affliction of emotional distress, that the smoke particles are a de minimus trespass, and that grilling is not a nuisance odor. Luckily for Toan Vu, Australia still has sane judges.

Which brings me to my point: If you’re like me, the only thing you find more tiresome than complaints about Donald Trump are complaints about complaints about Donald Trump, but please indulge me. For those Ricochet members who despise, dislike, or are embarrassed when Donald Trump does or says something, consider whether your complaint would be dismissed under 12(b)(6). Do his words or actions rise to the “high crimes and misdemeanors” standard for impeachment? Do his words or actions make Creepy Uncle Joe, Fauxcahontas, or Bernie Socialist the better candidate for the presidency in 2020? Do his words or actions seem so out of line with his character that those who like him for his character might actually change their minds with your complaints?

And for those Ricochet members who despise, dislike, or are embarrassed when anyone else does or says something against Trump, consider also whether your complaint would be dismissed under 12(b)(6). Do their words or actions rise to any actual inflicting of harm on you? Will those who dislike or even detest him for his character possibly change their minds because of your complaining about their complaining?

I don’t ask that you like the guy (I don’t either!) or the people complaining about the guy (They get on my nerves too!), but if the answer to the above questions is no, please stop with the impotent kvetching. You just come off like elderly mother-in-law who can’t stop complaining to everyone in earshot about her nogoodnik son-in-law and her silly daughter who won’t divorce him in the first case, and the coffee klatch who won’t stop complaining about the mother-in-law’s complaining in the second case.

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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Amen, Sistah! Preach it! Testify!

    • #1
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Amen, Sistah! Preach it! Testify!

    Absolutely.

    • #2
  3. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    I love it! (Virtual hug!)

    • #3
  4. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Well that’s a different take on the “Shut up” line of argument about Trump.

    We can’t do anything about him so why complain? And we can’t do anything about the people who complain so why complain about them? Okay yah sure whatever. 

    Of course I would like to point out that all of this was true about Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan or every other politician ever. What are you going to do about it? So, stop complaining. Are you going to impeach Obama for passing the ACA? No? Then stop complaining about it. Is anyone running on the Dem side in 2004 better than Bush? No? Then stop complaining about it. Is anything Clinton did with Lewinsky illegal? No? Just process crimes? Stop complaining about it. Sure impeach him can you remove him? Stop complaining about it. What are you going to do? 

    Life is pointless so shut up. 

     

    • #4
  5. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Life is pointless so shut up. 

    yes…. Yes…. YES!!!! take the black pill.

    Then you can truely have understanding.  It doesn’t matter anymore.  We are all [redacted]

    • #5
  6. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Stop complaining about it. What are you going to do

    I have been treated for chronic depression most of my life, and yes, “shut up and stop worrying about all the things in the world you can’t affect” is part of the healing process. The president is outside my sphere of influence; Ricochet is within it. And within my Ricochet sphere, I’ve been able to twice move across country, meet my best friends, watch my friends get married, and even become an honorary aunt. 

    So yes, I encourage everyone engaged in the endless cycle of “Orange Man Bad”/ “He’s The Lord’s Anointed” to step back, think about whether they’re actually accomplishing a damn thing, and consider building relationships instead of monologing the same. damn. talking points. at each other. 

    • #6
  7. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Even apart from the current US President, I have a fanciful desire that the U.S. President become a relatively bland administrator of perfunctory administrative tasks, and thus disappear from the daily or even weekly news. 

    In my eyes, 2016 candidate Rick Perry’s greatest feature was his statement that his objective as U.S. President would be to become irrelevant to our daily life.  

    • #7
  8. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I have a minor correction.  The “motion for summary judgment” is something different, and is brought under Rule 56.  Amy’s description of the rules governing a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss are otherwise correct.

    Note that these rule numbers are in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and in the state courts of Arizona in which I practice.  Different states have different rules.  At common law, a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss was called a “demurrer.”

    • #8
  9. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Amy Schley (View Comment):
    So yes, I encourage everyone engaged in the endless cycle of “Orange Man Bad”/ “He’s The Lord’s Anointed” to step back, think about whether they’re actually accomplishing a damn thing, and consider building relationships instead of monologing the same. damn. talking points. at each other. 

    You are on FIRE!

    Go, Amy!

    • #9
  10. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    I had no idea this was leading to a point about Trump

    or that there is a size N! 

     

    Well argued, though.

    • #10
  11. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N! 

     Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers. 

    • #11
  12. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    You must be deadly at trivia games, keeping abreast of such claims.

    • #12
  13. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    • #13
  14. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    You must be deadly at trivia games, keeping abreast of such claims.

    You must be deadly at punning games.

    • #14
  15. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Arahant (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    You must be deadly at trivia games, keeping abreast of such claims.

    You must be deadly at punning games.

    It’s rare that I go totally bust.

    • #15
  16. Slow on the uptake Thatcher
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Amy Schley: the only thing you find more tiresome than complaints about Donald Trump are complaints about complaints about Donald Trump

    Or complains about complaints about complaints about….Trump. (Just kidding)

    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!).  What would we discuss?

    • #16
  17. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Amy Schley: the only thing you find more tiresome than complaints about Donald Trump are complaints about complaints about Donald Trump

    Or complains about complaints about complaints about….Trump. (Just kidding)

    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Sports cars, science fiction, and rum-based cocktails would be a start.

    • #17
  18. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):
    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Puppies?

    • #18
  19. Slow on the uptake Thatcher
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):
    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Puppies?

    I assume you are volunteering? If not, @kentforrester comes to mind.

    • #19
  20. Slow on the uptake Thatcher
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    Amy Schley: the only thing you find more tiresome than complaints about Donald Trump are complaints about complaints about Donald Trump

    Or complains about complaints about complaints about….Trump. (Just kidding)

    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Sports cars, science fiction, and rum-based cocktails would be a start.

    Well for the third one, maybe someone with lots of experience would give us a start.  For the other two, a “Conservatarian with an appreciation for sports cars and science fiction” might start.  It wouldn’t hurt if he was also a group administrator.

    • #20
  21. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    You must be deadly at trivia games, keeping abreast of such claims.

    Worked in a specialty bra boutique. And let me tell you, it’s like going to a nude beach. The naked breasts you see are not the ones you want to see. 

    • #21
  22. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    How does a woman measuring a 52 band get to being an exotic dancer? That’s the size of my arse.

    • #22
  23. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Stina (View Comment):

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    How does a woman measuring a 52 band get to being an exotic dancer? That’s the size of my arse.

    I believe Sir Mixalot authored an ode to such women. 

    Thirty-six twenty-four thirty-six
    Ha ha, only if she’s 5’3.

    • #23
  24. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Stina (View Comment):

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    How does a woman measuring a 52 band get to being an exotic dancer? That’s the size of my arse.

    Though in looking at pictures of the woman in question (Cynthia Hess aka “Chesty Love”) the bra size she claims is wrong. Total circumference may be 66″, but the band size is definitely smaller than 52″.

    • #24
  25. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Even apart from the current US President, I have a fanciful desire that the U.S. President become a relatively bland administrator of perfunctory administrative tasks, and thus disappear from the daily or even weekly news.

    In my eyes, 2016 candidate Rick Perry’s greatest feature was his statement that his objective as U.S. President would be to become irrelevant to our daily life.

    Keep Cool with Coolidge.

    • #25
  26. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):
    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Puppies?

    Just clicking on that reminds me of people we haven’t seen in a long time, like Casey, Whiskey Sam.

    • #26
  27. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    kylez (View Comment):
    Just clicking on that reminds me of people we haven’t seen in a long time, like Casey, Whiskey Sam.

    Yeah. Lost a few good ones over the years.

    • #27
  28. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):
    But in my daydreams I have fantasized about a Ricochet sans Trump talk (Oh, frabjous day!). What would we discuss?

    Puppies?

    Yes,  even sad ones….

    Thanks for the post Amy! Dir alles Liebe aus Bayern!

     

    • #28
  29. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Arahant (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    Just clicking on that reminds me of people we haven’t seen in a long time, like Casey, Whiskey Sam.

    Yeah. Lost a few good ones over the years.

    Sniff….Doc Jay…bawl….

    • #29
  30. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Amy Schley (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):
    that there is a size N!

    Bra sizes are based on the difference between the circumference of the chest at the band and the circumference around the widest part of the breast. The dancer in question had a bra size of 52N, which is to say that that first of her three measurements was 66″.

    She was able to successfully deduct her augmentation surgery by showing both that her income had increased with them and that they were sufficiently unpleasant that she intended to reverse the augmentation when she eventually changed careers.

    How does a woman measuring a 52 band get to being an exotic dancer? That’s the size of my arse.

    I believe Sir Mixalot authored an ode to such women.

    Thirty-six twenty-four thirty-six
    Ha ha, only if she’s 5’3.

    This is true, but pretty certain. That first 36″ is around the bust.

    I have mostly an hour glass figure, but I still look fat, lol.

    • #30
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