The Barbarians Outside and Within the Gates

 

Portland is gearing up for a potential clash between Antifa and the Proud Boys on Saturday, August 17. Some merchants and civic groups have canceled events they had planned for downtown Portland. This includes Kells Irish Pub; they had planned to hold some amateur boxing matches on Saturday. Rather ironic that.

The mayor and a disparate group of civic leaders and community organizers held an outdoor gathering pleading for calm. One Rabbi stepped up to the microphone and defended Antifa; she might have a touch of the Jesuit within her, or at the very least Father Pfleger of Chicago. She was not the only one that believes that Antifa is a defender of Portland’s virtue.

The ACLU is warning the Portland Police Bureau, demanding they try to control themselves. The ACLU and the rest of the usual suspects will not be on the frontlines Saturday. No, they won’t be there, but it will be Portlanders that have to work on Saturday or travel through downtown on public transportation that will be left to fend for themselves.

The homeless that urinate, defecate, and shoot-up around the bridges along the riverfront will be left alone; even Antifa and the Proud Boys have some standards when it comes to selecting an audience.

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There are 17 comments.

  1. ctlaw Coolidge

    Doug Watt: One Jewish Rabbi stepped up to the microphone and defended Antifa. She might have a touch of the Jesuit within her, or at the very least Father Pfleger of Chicago. She was not the only one that believes that Antifa is a defender of Portland’s virtue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Kolodny

    She merits the title “Rabbi” less than Nathan Phillips merits “Tribal Elder”.

    • #1
    • August 15, 2019, at 8:17 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  2. Arahant Member

    Doug Watt: The ACLU and the rest of the usual suspects will not be on the frontlines Saturday.

    They never are. Always Monday-morning quarterbacking it, criticizing the guys who were there playing the game.

    • #2
    • August 15, 2019, at 8:38 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  3. Percival Thatcher

    Doug Watt: Some merchants and civic groups have cancelled events they had planned for downtown Portland. This includes Kells Irish Pub that had planned to hold some amateur boxing matches on Saturday. Rather ironic that.

    I went to a boxing match and a fight broke out …

    • #3
    • August 15, 2019, at 8:43 AM PDT
    • 15 likes
  4. Kay of MT Member

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: One Jewish Rabbi stepped up to the microphone and defended Antifa. She might have a touch of the Jesuit within her, or at the very least Father Pfleger of Chicago. She was not the only one that believes that Antifa is a defender of Portland’s virtue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Kolodny

    She merits the title “Rabbi” less than Nathan Phillips merits “Tribal Elder”.

    Reading that made me feel like up-chucking! I had no idea we had such people being called Rabbi.

    • #4
    • August 15, 2019, at 4:06 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  5. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt Post author

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: One Jewish Rabbi stepped up to the microphone and defended Antifa. She might have a touch of the Jesuit within her, or at the very least Father Pfleger of Chicago. She was not the only one that believes that Antifa is a defender of Portland’s virtue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Kolodny

    She merits the title “Rabbi” less than Nathan Phillips merits “Tribal Elder”.

    Reading that made me feel like up-chucking! I had no idea we had such people being called Rabbi.

    Take heart Kay, there are Catholics who call themselves Catholic (Nancy Pelosi..and others). Just because they name themselves, choose your pronoun, does not mean that they are who they say they are.

     

    • #5
    • August 15, 2019, at 5:16 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  6. Bill Nelson Member

    I vote we let them duke it out.

     

    • #6
    • August 16, 2019, at 11:50 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  7. Aaron Miller Member

    It’s a pity they can’t both lose.

    • #7
    • August 16, 2019, at 12:07 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  8. Henry Castaigne Member

    What hath leftism wrought? 

    • #8
    • August 16, 2019, at 1:35 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  9. James Gawron Thatcher

    Doug,

    Could you clear a few things up for me? First, don’t The Proud Boys wear jeans with American flag type patches, they do not wear swastikas or KKK apparel of any kind? Second, don’t The Proud Boys have a permit to march but Antifa appears in much larger numbers equipped with masks, helmets, clubs, etc.. and with no permit?

    Third, so what is going to happen on August 17 sound like what I’ve described above?

    BTW. Thanks for the link explaining the psychotic pseudo-Rabbi who is pushing Antifa. She’s a Rabbi, it’s just that she doesn’t believe in anything identifiable as Jewish. Also, she’s certifiably nuts.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #9
    • August 16, 2019, at 2:01 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  10. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    First, don’t The Proud Boys wear jeans with American flag type patches, they do not wear swastikas or KKK apparel of any kind? Second, don’t The Proud Boys have a permit to march but Antifa appears in much larger numbers equipped with masks, helmets, clubs, etc.. and with no permit?

    Doug may have more details, but simple googling reveals that the anti-antifa event crowd apparently does not have a permit,

    The rally, billed as “End Domestic Terrorism,” is aimed at the city’s homegrown anti-fascist group Rose City Antifa, which has clashed in the past with right-wing marchers.

    The event, which has not been given a permit, is organized by former InfoWars staffer Joe Biggs and supported by Enrique Tarrio, national head of the Proud Boys, an all-male, far-right group that champions “Western values.”

    which suggests this isn’t a case of Proud Boys having a permit, while antifa has none.

    Furthermore, the Proud Boys aren’t expected to be alone:

    Other affiliated groups expected to converge on Portland include members of the American Guard, the Three Percenters, the Oathkeepers and the Daily Stormers.

    The ADL, a more reliable source than the SPLC, considered the American Guard hardcore white supremacists, and the name “Daily Stormers” should speak for itself, considering what The Daily Stormer is.

    Oathkeepers and Three Percenters do sound nonracial, going by the ADL (though the ADL isn’t fond of them, either, apparently).

    • #10
    • August 16, 2019, at 2:50 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. James Gawron Thatcher

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):
    which suggests this isn’t a case of Proud Boys having a permit, while antifa has none.

    Midge,

    It was my impression that the last time the Proud Boys marched with a permit and they were attacked by the permitless Antifa who outnumbered the Proud Boys by approx. 4 to 1. Also, that Antifa essentially came dressed to riot with masks, helmets, and clubs. Would you say that this was a fair summary of the last time?

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #11
    • August 16, 2019, at 3:04 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  12. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt Post author

    Proud Boys used to apply for a permit in Portland, I don’t believe they do so anymore. Antifa has never applied for a permit. Both sides always issue a disclaimer through the media that they don’t, or cannot control everyone that claims membership in each group.

    It’s a symbiotic relationship in that each group monitors or announces the other’s intention to appear on a given date in downtown Portland.

    The Oregon National Guard trains with the Portland Police Bureau on crowd control tactics. Clackamas County and Washington County no longer takes calls in the Portland suburbs due to the anti-police attitude of the Portland City Council, and the Multnomah County Commissioners. They will however respond to Portland officers that need assistance. The Sheriff’s of both counties have made it clear that they do not blame Portland officers for the problem.

    The bottom line is that some people will not stop what they are doing until you put the boots to them. Sounds harsh, but that has been my experience on the streets. Warm and fuzzy has it’s place, but when things start going to hell warm and fuzzy doesn’t cut it.

    • #12
    • August 16, 2019, at 3:22 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  13. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Would you say that this was a fair summary of the last time?

    There have been many “last times” at this point, as far as I know, and I thank Doug for providing an overview of them.

    • #13
    • August 16, 2019, at 3:54 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  14. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):
    The ADL, a more reliable source than the SPLC, considered the American Guard hardcore white supremacists, and the name “Daily Stormers” should speak for itself, considering what The Daily Stormer is.

    Regrettably, I would not trust the ADL on this, either. I agree that they are a marginally more reliable source by the SPLC, but that isn’t saying much.

    Among other things, the ADL has been one of the leaders in driving religion and God out of the public schools. This is understandable, from their perspective, but regrettable.

    There’s a long history here. We had about 150-170 years of religious instruction in public schools. There was conflict and difficulty with this as a result of Catholic immigration, but the Catholics largely set up their own, alternative school system. Unfortunately, it was Jewish immigrants, and their descendants, who spearheaded much of the legal attack on religion in public life.

    • #14
    • August 16, 2019, at 4:43 PM PDT
    • Like
  15. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    I have a comment on the main issue.

    I do not think that there is an equivalency between Antifa and the Proud Boys. I admit that I don’t know all of the details. But my impression is that Antifa are criminal thugs, bullies, and sometimes terrorists, who intimidate private citizens. In places like Portland, the Left-wing authorities let them get away from it.

    The Proud Boys respond to Antifa by getting in their face. “Hey, Antifa twit. You wanna fight? Bring it on. Stop picking on kids, ladies, and old men.”

    I’m inclined to like it. It would be better if the authorities kept Antifa under control, but if they won’t do so, my inclination is to cheer on the self-help of the Proud Boys.

    • #15
    • August 16, 2019, at 4:46 PM PDT
    • Like
  16. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Regrettably, I would not trust the ADL on this, either. I agree that they are a marginally more reliable source by the SPLC, but that isn’t saying much.

    You don’t have to trust the ADL 100% — or the SPLC — to use its alerts on these matters as a resource. Everyone is free to look at the reasons they offer up for labeling a group a “hate group” and draw their own conclusions.

    I think there’s a tendency among all partisans these days to wish “this source is biased” or “this source’s information is lower-quality than I think is right” meant “this source is so biased you should believe the opposite of what it says” or “this source’s information is so low-quality it’s effectively no information”. 

    Of course, people have differing reasons for citing sources. The goal of sharing information must acknowledge our sources of information are flawed, but doesn’t consider flawed the same as useless. The goal of discrediting one’s opponent, on the other hand, is willing to discount useful information a perceived opponent brings to the table, while emphasizing any perceived (that is, real or imagined) shortcomings the information may have: the bar of how good one’s opponent’s information must be in order to not be discounted can always be raised a little higher until one’s opponent’s information no longer clears it.

    • #16
    • August 17, 2019, at 8:31 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Regrettably, I would not trust the ADL on this, either. I agree that they are a marginally more reliable source by the SPLC, but that isn’t saying much.

    You don’t have to trust the ADL 100% — or the SPLC — to use its alerts on these matters as a resource. Everyone is free to look at the reasons they offer up for labeling a group a “hate group” and draw their own conclusions.

    I think there’s a tendency among all partisans these days to wish “this source is biased” or “this source’s information is lower-quality than I think is right” meant “this source is so biased you should believe the opposite of what it says” or “this source’s information is so low-quality it’s effectively no information”.

    Of course, people have differing reasons for citing sources. The goal of sharing information must acknowledge our sources of information are flawed, but doesn’t consider flawed the same as useless. The goal of discrediting one’s opponent, on the other hand, is willing to discount useful information a perceived opponent brings to the table, while emphasizing any perceived (that is, real or imagined) shortcomings the information may have: the bar of how good one’s opponent’s information must be in order to not be discounted can always be raised a little higher until one’s opponent’s information no longer clears it.

    Midge, you may do as you wish, of course. In my view, if a source is unreliable, then it is useless. One would have to check everything that the source says, which makes it useless as a source.

    You cited the ADL as a source for the conclusion that one or two groups allegedly planning to participate in the Portland clash are horrid. Perhaps they are, perhaps not. I simply do not trust the ADL as a source for this.

    It would be nice if we had a solid source. The “white supremacist” label has become so over-used that I find it almost impossible to trust any claim along these lines. 

    • #17
    • August 17, 2019, at 9:38 AM PDT
    • 2 likes