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It Could Be Suicide or Murder. But Incompetence Is a Certainty.
A question that @paddysiochain has asked needs to be answered: Is it even possible that Jeffrey Epstein was an actual suicide? Sure it is. Anyone remember the Baader-Meinhof gang? German terrorists of the Seventies, a cross between Antifa and the Manson family. Their leaders were caught and mysteriously committed suicide in jail. Almost everyone who’s seen the subsequent evidence says that it’s airtight: they really did commit suicide. But they were so high profile, and suicide seemingly so improbable, that on that day and for decades after, the hard Left and the hard Right don’t believe it.
Epstein’s world collapsed faster and more comprehensively than Harvey Weinstein’s. After his arrest, he was incredulous that he wasn’t offered a bail deal. He’d never see freedom again, let alone Lolita Island. Yes, I could see him as a suicide. Maybe. But…
When NYPD turned someone over to Federal custody (a rare experience for a uniformed officer), the MCC is where they were processed; it’s relatively modern. The high-profile guys are kept in 10 South, where the lights and CCTV cameras are on 24/7.
If after all this publicity Epstein wasn’t in 10 South, either people were idiots or money changed hands somewhere. If this was murder: However much it was, it ain’t going to be enough. Not this time. Some jailers are going to jail, and there’s not going to be any “Shawshank” payoff when they get out. Which prison psych took him off suicide watch? Which prison official put him in a cell without cameras? I’d seize and scan the socials, bank statements, etc., of MCC staff top to bottom. When I said this in the PIT, @Django replied, “I’m even more cynical than you are, Gary. I’d look, sometime, in the near future, for a guard whose performance evaluations went from mediocre to superstar and who got an unexpected promotion and substantial raise.”
The Dems had far more reason to “off” Epstein than the GOP. But let’s not brush away an unpleasant fact: This is not an NYC problem, it’s a federal facility, Attorney General Barr was in charge. I know, the bureaucracy, the permanent government, etc., etc. – but even if the Deep Blue bureaucracy was 15 levels deep, the AG could have picked up the phone and said, like every pundit in America was yelling, “If anything happens to this guy, your [butt] is on the line – no excuses, no mercy.” There’s no sign he did so. If this had been AG Rudy Giuliani, he would have moved his office staff to the MCC just to keep an eye on them. Does this make President Trump a conspirator? Of course not. But murder or suicide, some of his appointees showed total incompetence, with nobody to hand it off to. They let this happen and some of them better suffer for it.
There are about a dozen, maybe a hundred ways they could have kept him alive. Sure, none are ever perfect, but let ’em try. I’ve mentioned that they have a unit with constant video surveillance. They could have put that camera on a net feed. If I’d been AG Barr I would have ordered that, and quietly ordered a rotating squad of loyalists to monitor the feed 24/7 in shifts.
As Adm. Rickover said, “You can delegate authority. You cannot delegate responsibility.”
Published in General
The point is legacy protection. The Clinton Foundation is Chelsea’s meal ticket, for that to remain a functional (if fictional) charity it has to be able to raise funds. If Bill Clinton is widely smeared to be a user of underage prostitutes whom where force-ably trafficked from the 3rd world. It would put a damper on fundraising – certainly make those big donations from foreign governments go away.
The Clintons? It still don’t make enough sense. They don’t have a vast army of supporters; ‘ol Bill is just about persona non grata with the Democratic Party now. How would they do it? There aren’t enough cut-outs to protect him. We’ve heard about this Lolita Express stuff for years before Hillary’s most recent run. It didn’t get much more than a shrug.
It’s like “Bush-caused-9/11”; I’d always respond with, what could he get that would be worth the colossal risk?
Bill still has hundreds of guys in his Rolodex that owe him favors… Its no big deal to misfile some paperwork – or make sure a night shift is short handed.. Its not like a bureaucrat would expect to be fired or prosecuted for simple incompetence. There could also be others, wall street types who like their jobs, like not being sued, not going to prison… They’re dozens if not hundreds of powerful men whom we dont know – and may never know – who need to keep him quiet.
Its also different to hear rumors of a Lolita express, its a different thing when there are victims standing up saying he did this, that and the other things. That takes away the doubt, “The vast right wing conspiracy” it becomes real and damaging.
Andy McCarthy today wonders why Epstein’s “top-flight” lawyers did not make a motion to dismiss, which is connected to the larger question of why he was in federal custody at all, since it isn’t clear that federal prosecutors were in a position to bring new charges. He speculates that his lawyers must have had a reason, but finds it very curious, as, apparently, did the judge who mentioned it in the first paragraph of his opinion denying bail.
I also have to ask, if this was murder, what was the earlier suicide attempt? Was that attempted murder too? Epstein’s lawyers didn’t mention anything about some guy trying to kill their client and getting close enough to put rope marks on his neck? If that’s more or less now accepted as a suicide attempt, no third party involved, it undercuts the murder theory.
Which of course is still a real possibility.
Bill Clinton’s aged Rolodex is unlikely to be detailed enough. Sure, he probably knew some people. Did he really know who to call at MCC to arrange guard OT, no video, make sure the “right” guard was on alleged duty, etc? How many people are willing to do life in jail to help Bill?
Has there been any talk about what blood/substance tests were or were not performed at the autopsy?
Totally unrelated incident, but instructive, I think. Brian Pagliano was issued a subpoena and refused to show up to answer questions from a Congressional committee. The matter was turned over to the executive branch, but nothing happened. He just walked away with no consequences. Later, in an interview Jason Chaffetz claimed that Rip Van Sessions told him “eyeball-to-eyeball” regarding actions against Pagliano, “We’re not gonna go there because that gets too close to Hillary.” Yes, Sessions is a gutless incompetent, but did he have reason to fear Hillary and Bill? Do others?
Someone mentioned today that Epstein’s lawyers have each retained defense attorneys.
You know something astoundingly bad happened when your lawyers need lawyers…
No I dont think it was murder … at least not in the traditional sense. I think he was allowed to commit suicide. I think he was taken off suicide watch, given a solitary cell so that he could commit suicide. Now was he induced into that with some sort of drugged suggestion? or had such negatively shaded questioning from guards or others, that he felt additional pressure or urgency to take care of it quickly, before the suicide watch could be re-instated on Monday. (its also no co-incidence that this happened over a weekend in august, when supervisors are likely to be out early on Friday afternoon?)
At his age, going to prison as a sex offender – for the rest of his life – isnt suicide a rational act?
If we’re doing Python, they’re how I know about the Baader-Meinhof gang.
“…and up in the circle is Enid Pickles, local representative of the Baader-Meinhof group. She is the only one
armed here this afternoon.”
Yup.
If I were to write one of those parallel-world screenplays with a dark cthulic shadow realm next to ours, I’d have some serious evil firing up about 2006. It’d never be clear whether our world or the shadow realm was driving events. The evil currents would burst into open force like Stephen R. Donaldson’s demons in 2008, and run wild until 2016. Just as the next unholy cycle is about to commence a commoner in the real world, a genial jester and generally flawed guy, pops up from nowhere and disrupts the rites. The dark forces are repulsed but not really hurt. They sulk for a while then begin to regroup …
Look, there is some serious evil in this world and guys like Clinton, Epstein, Windsor (I guess that’s his name), and Minsky (ok what the …) are in it. If you can’t think of a likely motive for one of them rubbing out Epstein then you aren’t trying.
Most people aren’t schizophrenics – most of us are a single piece, a more or less unified whole. If a person is sleazy in one way, it’s likely he’s got some more rot we can’t see. Moreover, some people are sociopaths, unconstrained by empathy. Most of us aren’t up to thinking about what a society of wealthy sociopaths would get up to.
And that brings me to the observation that J. Epstein was almost certainly a high-functioning sociopath. If there’s a pshrink on board this conversation I’d appreciate hearing about whether such a person would ever consider suicide. Seems unlikely to me.
I’d hold off on believing everything she said until we get some corroboration. Marvin Minsky, the high priest of artificial intelligence? He was once a minor celebrity for predicting that computers would someday understand the spoken word, drive cars, and scan photos for distinctive patterns at many thousands of times human speed. For roughly the next quarter century, those fields were unpromising, and “AI winter” led to jeers at Minsky and others.
But those Sixties predictions didn’t work out too badly in the end.
#34 Sandy
Strongest thanks for linking to the Andy McCarthy article.
It reinforces my sense that the Clintons engineered Epstein’s arrest and arraignment in the first place — something I posited on a Member Feed thread kicked off by Dr. Bastiat yesterday. (I’ve copied/pasted my comment from that below.)
My speculative rationale for this is that AG Barr — particularly but not solely via the Durham investigation — has spooked the Clintons into a reckless attempt to distract via a fabricated guilt-by-circumstantial-association smear of President Trump somehow dredged from what the Clintons hoped might be somewhere in Epstein’s files.
In other words, a Steele Dossier-style Pee-Pee-gate Redux. Getting leaks of such a salacious nature out into MSM discourse would require the Clintons to pull strings with the SDNY, which wouldn’t prove to be all that difficult. The problem was that the file-dredging didn’t yield any weapons-grade smear material against Trump, but it might risk just such revelations with Bill Clinton if not the entire CGI operation — and into the bargain, Epstein himself didn’t appreciate being double-/triple-teamed into taking a fall.
To refer again to the Andy McCarthy article, the puzzle of Epstein’s lawyers not seeking a motion to dismiss might not have traced solely to their fears of more chargeable dirt against their client that the SDNY might have in store — it might have traced straight up from an awareness that the Clintons had engineered the entire case to begin with.
*******
PJ Media coverage suggested that the Friday public release of voluminous testimony records from a case brought previously against Epstein by a woman alleging that, as a minor, she was abused by him — and passed around to prominent Epstein “associates” for similarly felonious treatment — might have tipped Epstein’s frame of mind into suicidal territory.
I don’t buy that: Epstein’s narcissistic self-preservation qualities and skills (to say nothing of his financial resources) seemed extremely formidable — a sudden crumble seemed correspondingly difficult to imagine.
Even his arrest and arraignment now seem suspicious to me: It’s as if Hillary decided that AG Barr poses a far more profound threat than she’d originally considered; so she then decided that another Pee-Pee-gate type of Trump-targeted scandal-invention might do the trick, if Epstein could be successfully enlisted; but lo and behold, Epstein wasn’t willing to create a Trump-as-Lolita-Express-Regular narrative (including plausible-fake flight logs) out of whole cloth, since it meant Epstein himself would also have to take some kind of fall.
Epstein wouldn’t and/or couldn’t play ball, so Hillary sicced the SDNY on him. Unfortunately, that only served to underscore further that the thus-far-recoverable evidence implicates the CGI and/or those willing to add to the implications via plea deals.
Hence the posthumous discovery of Epstein’s previously-undetected tracheal condition.
#6 August 10, 2019, at 7:17 AM PDT
I don’t know, I hear those
MCUsMCCs are notoriously easy to get out of – why commit suicide?This is a horrible reality we live in.
Also: Shirley Skipper-Scott? Is she assuredly sure she needs supplemental esses?
10 years of “social” “science” and then she’s, well, warden? That does seem a wee bit odd. The bump from 2016 to 2017 is a huge step increase, in the same pay band.
Of course he held tons of bargaining chips. He could name names, and testify. Not to mention he could have evidence squirreled away somewhere the feds haven’t found yet.
Big difference between rumors and young women testifying in court, flight logs and maybe video.
Rank and file Democrats still love BJ Clinton. And how many still moan and scream about Hillary being “cheated”. Gonna be hard to keep that up if they are slapped in the face with the facts.
I’m sure the Clintons were just some of the Anointed who have direct pipelines to the Deep State folks in DOJ, FBI, CIA etc etc etc. This stinks.
I’m sure the Clintons were just some of the Anointed who have direct pipelines to the Deep State folks in DOJ, FBI, CIA etc etc etc. This stinks.
I knew about them because the month I arrived in Germany, an American officer was wounded when a fire extinguisher bomb exploded in his car.
Which seems like a good insurance policy. But then people tend not to be as devious as characters in fiction.
How would we know? Most of the criminals we are made aware of are petty criminals that do really dumb stuff.
The devious ones keep it hidden for a very long time or make it look like someone else’s fault.
I don’t understand why so many here can’t imagine powerful people being this degenerate. It isn’t like it’s never happened before. And people don’t fundamentally change. Modern Man is no different than Ancient Man when it comes to good and evil.
I can imagine lots of things. I try to adhere to what is known.
As a cavalry officer, I learned that the “estimated enemy tank battalion” was often a single broken down T54.
I’m willing to be patient.
My prediction: We’ll NEVER know what really happened.
Your first paragraph is very good advice. I don’t see any reason to jump to conclusions; it kind of makes it hard to learn more when we already have a conclusion.
I don’t think we should be patient, though. We’ll get more information if we make known our impatience to get it.
Maybe it’s my personal connection to people who teach at charter schools that don’t have a masters (or even a B.A.) but this to me is the least compelling theory tying Republicans to this.
Are we saying that his life pre-sex trafficking pre-money is pertinent to his life after he got influence?
I remember the saying that once is just an occurrence; twice is coincidence; three times is enemy action. Now, this from Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-checked-for-hours-apparent-suicide
“room with Epstein” makes it sound like a dormitory. We will never know what happened, as was said in #56.
@Jeff Hawkins:
Not saying there’s any such tie at all to be made from this. I merely thought was an odd “small world” sort of coincidence in a city of several million people, that the AG now in charge of the DOJ and Bureau of Prisons would be the real-life son of the real-life guy who way back then gave Epstein his first job.