The Reality: There are no Solutions

 

My mind is reeling and my heart is aching, not only from the shootings that have just occurred, but the flood of solutions that people are proposing. We are all desperate for solutions. We want to be able to live in this world feeling safe. We want to know that we can go to Walmart and not have to look over our shoulders. We want to be happy, live peacefully and know that we don’t have to live in fear.

The truth, as hard as it is to admit, is twofold and paradoxical: there are no solutions to gun violence and we don’t have to live in fear.

How do we live with this reality? The truth is that our society suffers from much more than gun violence. The American culture has degraded, and is spiritually empty, lacking compassion and respect for all of our citizens. Does anyone know of a society that has recovered from this type of erosion—without a moral compass? The only one that comes to mind is the Jews.

Time and gain, the Jews have fallen into idol worship and moral decadence. The only way they were pulled back to a spiritual existence was through the Prophets and G-d. But we no longer have prophets. And most of the Jews have become secular; many are self-hating and resent the Orthodox. The times do not bode positive outcomes, even for the Jewish community.

The gentile community is also in trouble. Moral bearings are vanishing; laws that respect freedom and the human spirit are disappearing. The rule of law itself is vanishing in a dark cloud of self-indulgence, small-mindedness and materialism. How much darker can the future look?

Rather than giving up hope, I have only one suggestion, and each of you has the power to make it happen. We each have to commit ourselves fully to being our best selves, to being loving, law-abiding and responsible human beings. Not just by going through our lives unconsciously on our ordinary paths: going to work, taking the kids to school, making dinner, and taking care of ourselves. Those are required to live a good life. But doing even more. Taking on our tasks and obligations and relationships with passion and dedication. Getting involved with our communities and neighbors. Looking people in the eye. Paying attention to the needs of others. Staring down fear. Behaving as if our very lives, our families and friends and existence depend on it.

Because they do.

 It’s all up to you.

 

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  1. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    When concealed carry started in this country (Florida first), the left said it was a return to the old West, that blood would flow in the streets. Ironically, most of the blood that flowed was from criminals assaulting ordinary citizens who had their permits; they were rightfully sent off to meet their maker.

    But the left has created a new monster – the shooter who kills for a cause, which can be revenge on society, publicity, or to advance an agenda. And yes, I include this so-called “alt right” with the left because they are truly left wingers in words and actions.

    If we assume a new “wild west” is taking place, it’s all the more important for citizens to take the safety of themselves and their families in their own hands. The police are being stretched thin, and the left is doing their best to ensure no sane citizen wants to join what is a noble profession, that of law enforcement . . .

    Was there a lot of concealed carry in the Old West? I’ve always been led to believe that open carry was the norm.

    Were there a lot of politically-motivated “lone wolf” mass killings in the Old West? Seems to me, the majority of mass killings in the OId West were perpetrated by government agents.

    The Old West was violent, but not as violent as we think it was.  Concealed carry was a thing that existed -when Wyatt Earp confronted the Cowboys he was carrying his pistol in a coat pocket.  I don’t know how many “mass killings” that weren’t related to the various Indian Wars existed, but there were some shootouts over the ages, and a lot of the gang leaders that led the shootouts might well have fit the “loner trying to make a name” profile.  See my above anecdote about the Dalton Gang, which hit Coffeyville explicitly for the purpose of one-upping the James Gang.

    • #31
  2. DavidBSable Inactive
    DavidBSable
    @DavidBSable

    Judaism and its little brother Christianity provided two gifts to the world: 1)  a moral system that did not originate in our head that we are called to aspire to and 2) a shared community that brings a bunch of misfits together into a shared fellowship of intimacy and belonging.

    The apostatizing from these kind of connections cause a drift towards an unchecked moral smorgasbord formed in isolation where really bad ideas can seem profound.

    A common thread of mass shooting is not ideological but the isolation from a moral community of any kind and a nonsensical create-your-own justice system that precipitates outrage and ultimately action.

     

    • #32
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    DavidBSable (View Comment):
    A common thread of mass shooting is not ideological but the isolation from a moral community of any kind and a nonsensical create-your-own justice system that precipitates outrage and ultimately action.

    That is where we are. Sadly, many take pride in being rebels. They don’t really understand what they are rejecting. Thanks, @davidbsable.

    • #33
  4. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I’m very skeptical in these times that school prayer will ever happen. I agree that it would be a powerful change, Yehoshua, but I don’t think it we’ll ever see it again.

    With all due respect, Susan, that’s like saying the Soviet Union will never collapse, which was brought about, in no small way, by religious longings that had long been suppressed.  The sad truth is that without such a change, the US will more than likely turn into a Soviet style state.  When you exile G-d from the public square, religious impulses are channeled into secular isms such as hedonism, socialism, and totalitarianism.

     

    • #34
  5. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Meanwhile, Israel’s gun licensing guidelines deserve a closer look in the US.

    In Israel, all gun licenses are open carry. Most terrorist shooters (and stabbers) are stopped by civilians with firearms. Open carry does make a difference.

    By the same token, you have to jump through many hoops to get a gun license. You need to have reached a certain level of weapons training in the military and then you must undergo a thorough investigation of your police and medical — both mental and physical health — records. Without appropriate military training, you are still eligible for a gun license if you live or work in a security risk area such as Judea or Samaria (the so-called West Bank) or certain Jerusalem neighborhoods. You are also given guidelines — in a 45 minute class — as to when, legally, you are allowed to open fire. Then, you do actual training on a shooting range before being issued your gun license.

    The firearm you select must be a sidearm (handgun), and you cannot purchase more than one.  You are also required, by law, to keep your gun in a locked safe attached to a wall or to the floor.  When you go out with your gun, it must be on your person at all times.  Leaving it in your car, for example, while you go out to shop, is a violation of the law.  A gun license is good for three years.  To renew it, you must produce documents attesting to your continued health and participate in a supervised practice at a shooting range.

    • #35
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I’m very skeptical in these times that school prayer will ever happen. I agree that it would be a powerful change, Yehoshua, but I don’t think it we’ll ever see it again.

    With all due respect, Susan, that’s like saying the Soviet Union will never collapse, which was brought about, in no small way, by religious longings that had long been suppressed. The sad truth is that without such a change, the US will more than likely turn into a Soviet style state. When you exile G-d from the public square, religious impulses are channeled into secular isms such as hedonism, socialism, and totalitarianism.

    I agree with you, Yehoshua, wholeheartedly. But I’m pessimistic on this point as well. Still I will pray for the change to happen.

    • #36
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):
    The firearm you select must be a sidearm (handgun), and you cannot purchase more than one.

    Does Israel have a national gun registry? You would need it to make sure a person does not purchase more than one gun. That would bother a lot of people here.

    • #37
  8. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Sabrdance (View Comment):

    I may have further thoughts at a future date, but in the present I would note that there are no solutions, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can do. That doesn’t mean we will do them. Megan McArdle long ago pointed out that the way to stop spree shooters is the same way the military stops ambushes: train people to charge the guns. She got raked over the coals for this. This was clearly an unreasonable strategy.

    Perhaps, but I remember that my great-grandfather was crossing the street when the Dalton Gang entered the First National Bank and CM Condon and Company Banks in Coffeyville, KS. He was handed a shotgun and told to get in position. We have lost that trait, today, and don’t even believe it is possible, let alone a reasonable solution. Despite doing it less than 130 years ago, and every day in Basic Training.

    Charge the guns? Who is going to charge an AK-47? The solution is to ban military-style assault weapons such as those, that have no place in society – they were designed and created for the military and have nothing to do with defending yourself or hunting. The creators of the 2nd Amendment would be appalled.

    • #38
  9. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Meanwhile, Israel’s gun licensing guidelines deserve a closer look in the US.

    In Israel, all gun licenses are open carry. Most terrorist shooters (and stabbers) are stopped by civilians with firearms. Open carry does make a difference.

    By the same token, you have to jump through many hoops to get a gun license. You need to have reached a certain level of weapons training in the military and then you must undergo a thorough investigation of your police and medical — both mental and physical health — records. Without appropriate military training, you are still eligible for a gun license if you live or work in a security risk area such as Judea or Samaria (the so-called West Bank) or certain Jerusalem neighborhoods. You are also given guidelines — in a 45 minute class — as to when, legally, you are allowed to open fire. Then, you do actual training on a shooting range before being issued your gun license.

    The firearm you select must be a sidearm (handgun), and you cannot purchase more than one. You are also required, by law, to keep your gun in a locked safe attached to a wall or to the floor. When you go out with your gun, it must be on your person at all times. Leaving it in your car, for example, while you go out to shop, is a violation of the law. A gun license is good for three years. To renew it, you must produce documents attesting to your continued health and participate in a supervised practice at a shooting range.

    Given the vagaries of state laws in the US, such rigorous requirements would be abused by state authorities to deny all gun permits except for the politically connected (see: California, New York, New Jersey).  

    The problem in the US is one of Trust.  You will get no willing compromise from gun owners on anything like this because gun owners frankly do not Trust either the state or federal governments to not later renege on any such arrangement, or use registrations and licensing to arbitrarily confiscate previously legally owned weapons.  California has actually done so – legally allowed certain classes of firearms in return for registration, gotten people to register them, and then later revoked the legality of such firearms and demanded that they be sold out of state (with paperwork proof), or be turned in to be destroyed – and those who have failed to do either have then had armed state troopers show up early in the morning to confiscate them (my wife had this happen to a friend of hers).  Meanwhile the politically connected in California are seemingly allowed to buy and carry what they way.

    New York, in the wake of Sandy Hook, Pulse, and Stoneman shootings, out and out banned ownership of any firearm that could hold more than 7 rounds.

    Frankly, as a gun owner, I do not Trust any “bargain” on gun safety laws because the political left has made it abundantly clear that they will not ever honor their side of any deal.  Their goal, stated over and over and over again, is a total ban.  They’ve been quite vocal about it.

    • #39
  10. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):
    The firearm you select must be a sidearm (handgun), and you cannot purchase more than one.

    Does Israel have a national gun registry? You would need it to make sure a person does not purchase more than one gun. That would bother a lot of people here.

    In Israel, if you own a gun, you cannot be sold another.  A quick computer check of your citizen ID number by the gun store will determine whether you already own a gun.

    If open carry was universally allowed in the US, as it is in Israel, people might be more willing to accept single gun ownership.  It’s a policy that works in deterring or cutting short terrorist/madman attacks, which is really the bottom line.  Coupled with this, however, there must be a media policy of minimal reportage to reduce copycat attacks.

    • #40
  11. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    The Old West was violent, but not as violent as we think it was.

    True.  The Old West has been romanticized for ages.

    • #41
  12. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):
    The firearm you select must be a sidearm (handgun), and you cannot purchase more than one.

    Does Israel have a national gun registry? You would need it to make sure a person does not purchase more than one gun. That would bother a lot of people here.

    In Israel, if you own a gun, you cannot be sold another. A quick computer check of your citizen ID number by the gun store will determine whether you already own a gun.

    If open carry was universally allowed in the US, as it is in Israel, people might be more willing to accept single gun ownership. It’s a policy that works in deterring or cutting short terrorist/madman attacks, which is really the bottom line. Coupled with this, however, there must be a media policy of minimal reportage to reduce copycat attacks.

    The US media is another factor to consider: we don’t trust them either.  They have repeatedly proved either flagrantly dishonest, or blitheringly ignorant (and dare I say stupid and asinine?) in their reporting on firearms.  

    • #42
  13. Goldgeller Member
    Goldgeller
    @Goldgeller

    SkipSul (View Comment):

     

    Given the vagaries of state laws in the US, such rigorous requirements would be abused by state authorities to deny all gun permits except for the politically connected (see: California, New York, New Jersey).

    The problem in the US is one of Trust. You will get no willing compromise from gun owners on anything like this because gun owners frankly do not Trust either the state or federal governments to not later renege on any such arrangement, or use registrations and licensing to arbitrarily confiscate previously legally owned weapons. California has actually done so – legally allowed certain classes of firearms in return for registration, gotten people to register them, and then later revoked the legality of such firearms and demanded that they be sold out of state (with paperwork proof), or be turned in to be destroyed – and those who have failed to do either have then had armed state troopers show up early in the morning to confiscate them (my wife had this happen to a friend of hers). Meanwhile the politically connected in California are seemingly allowed to buy and carry what they way.

    New York, in the wake of Sandy Hook, Pulse, and Stoneman shootings, out and out banned ownership of any firearm that could hold more than 7 rounds.

    Frankly, as a gun owner, I do not Trust any “bargain” on gun safety laws because the political left has made it abundantly clear that they will not ever honor their side of any deal. Their goal, stated over and over and over again, is a total ban. They’ve been quite vocal about it.

    Trust is a good point and the system is definitely ripe for abuse. I’m thinking about Leeland Yee in Cali working to traffic guns.

    And I also think about how the law probably won’t be enforced evenly within the state. If you live in the country life won’t really change much for you. Suburbs it depends. If you live in the cities you will wake up and find yourself a criminal. Hardly anyone in NY and CT registered their assault weapons. So yeah, I think at bottom I just don’t trust the process to be fair or narrowly and reasonably tailored. 

     

    • #43
  14. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Frankly, as a gun owner, I do not Trust any “bargain” on gun safety laws because the political left has made it abundantly clear that they will not ever honor their side of any deal. Their goal, stated over and over and over again, is a total ban. They’ve been quite vocal about it.

    I agree with all your points, @skipsul. In addition, it’s been shown that a person can turn a handgun into a rapid fire gun with some practice.

    • #44
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    (and dare I say stupid and asinine?

    You may . . .

    • #45
  16. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):
    If open carry was universally allowed in the US, as it is in Israel, people might be more willing to accept single gun ownership.

    Not me.  I like different guns for different purposes, just like I have different automobiles for different purposes.

    One comment topic of conversation among gun owners is, “If you could only own one gun (let’s say a handgun), what would it be?”

    • #46
  17. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Stad (View Comment):
    One comment topic of conversation among gun owners is, “If you could only own one gun (let’s say a handgun), what would it be?”

    In Israel, probably the Glock 17, which is the IDF handgun of choice.

    • #47
  18. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Susan Quinn: Time and gain, the Jews have fallen into idol worship and moral decadence.

    So did the Chinese and probably every other population. Ignoring the moral greatness of your ancestors and falling into moral decadence isn’t just a Jewish thing. It is a human thing. People foolishly turn away from the good. In the Old Testament, the theme is repeated constantly but that theme is universal. 

    • #48
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: Time and gain, the Jews have fallen into idol worship and moral decadence.

    So did the Chinese and probably every other population. Ignoring the moral greatness of your ancestors and falling into moral decadence isn’t just a Jewish thing. It is a human thing. People foolishly turn away from the good. In the Old Testament, the theme is repeated constantly but that theme is universal.

    The Chinese and most other civilizations were not monotheists, @henrycastaigne. Abandoning G-d for idols is different from worshiping stone and wood figures.

    • #49
  20. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    You might recall that I’m Jewish, so I would not call the cathedrals great monuments to civilization necessarily. Not even the great synagogues would I find as great monuments to our civilization.

    They are monuments to the faith of the people who built them and have maintained them for so many centuries.

    I understand that Jews have had their best temples burnt and desecrated by foreign armies. I’m sorry this but I visited Europe and I really like how all the Christian temples were very pretty.

    • #50
  21. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Sabrdance (View Comment):

    I may have further thoughts at a future date, but in the present I would note that there are no solutions, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can do. That doesn’t mean we will do them. Megan McArdle long ago pointed out that the way to stop spree shooters is the same way the military stops ambushes: train people to charge the guns. She got raked over the coals for this. This was clearly an unreasonable strategy.

    Perhaps, but I remember that my great-grandfather was crossing the street when the Dalton Gang entered the First National Bank and CM Condon and Company Banks in Coffeyville, KS. He was handed a shotgun and told to get in position. We have lost that trait, today, and don’t even believe it is possible, let alone a reasonable solution. Despite doing it less than 130 years ago, and every day in Basic Training.

    Charge the guns? Who is going to charge an AK-47? The solution is to ban military-style assault weapons such as those, that have no place in society – they were designed and created for the military and have nothing to do with defending yourself or hunting. The creators of the 2nd Amendment would be appalled.

    I don’t think this is true, FSC. I’m a total novice when it comes to guns. I’ve only been to a Couples for Liberty Shooting Sports Camp at Hillsdale recently. I believe military-use assault weapons are fully automatic (or can be switched to fully automatic) where AK style are semi-automatic. And, oh man! Are they fun to shoot!! 

    They look mean, but we shouldn’t deny law-abiding people’s natural rights to self-defense because a few a-holes get their hands on badass weapons and cause mayhem. I’m not for bans, generally speaking. Except I wish the Constitution had banned wealth transfers. 

    • #51
  22. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    I’ve only been to a Couples for Liberty Shooting Sports Camp at Hillsdale recently

    Ah, too bad! We went the year before, WC.

    • #52
  23. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    I’ve only been to a Couples for Liberty Shooting Sports Camp at Hillsdale recently

    Ah, too bad! We went the year before, WC.

    Wasn’t it a hoot?! Maybe Ricochetti should take over one the Ladies for Liberty camps next year?

    • #53
  24. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    There is always a solution to every problem.  Our society has been over-run by evil forced upon us by the Progressives- that is the principle problem – mass shootings, disaffected youth, etc are just symptoms of a greater problem.

    While I agree some of the solutions thrown out here principally by Yehoshua – open carry and a return to prayer in the schools are a good start, but they don’t address the  larger issue.

    Let us start with some quotes by our glorious comrade Vladimir Lenin:

     “We can and must write in a language which sows among the masses hate, revulsion, and scorn toward those who disagree with us.”

    •”The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses.”

    •”Why should freedom of speech and freedom of press be allowed? Why should a government which is doing what it believes to be right allow itself to be criticized? It would not allow opposition by lethal weapons. Ideas are much more fatal things than guns.”

    •”It is, of course, much easier to shout, abuse, and howl than to attempt to relate, to explain.”

    • “People always have been and they always will be stupid victims of deceit and self-deception in politics.”

    • “There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel.”

    It’s funny but perhaps you can recognize some similarities between the attitude of Comrade Lenin and the tactics of today’s Progressives. What a coincidence!

    In a post by Angelo Codevilla today at American Greatness he says:

    “Government sponsorship of violence against opponents or complacency in the face of incitement to violence is a powerful tool of political repression. Regimes such as Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Nicaragua, China, and other tyrannies have used such tactics to great effect. When mobs attack anti-government demonstrators, for example, the police either disappear or stand by watching. In American cities run by Democrats and on the U.S. college and university campuses, the authorities increasingly have been standing by as radicals do the dirty work of beating up or silencing conservatives.”

    “In societies riven by mutual hate, the people who control the police and public communications make all the difference. “

    It all starts with getting people accustomed to hating each other. And that starts at the top.

    “Saying hateful things about one’s opponents is a time-tested way of stoking supporters’ enthusiasm, of building support for one’s own side. But when blood is spilled, someone, then everyone else, tends to use it as a pretext for inciting more violence. That’s the meaning of blood-feud.”

    To find a solution one must:

    • First acknowledge that the Left has been fomenting violence and hate for a very long time

    • Understand that those who fail to defend our freedoms encourage this hate, and that includes  many of the Never Trump Crowd, our  Justice System   and the Police.

     

    • #54
  25. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Unsk (View Comment):

    To find a solution one must:

    • First acknowledge that the Left has been fomenting violence and hate for a very long time

    • Understand that those who fail to defend our freedoms encourage this hate, and that includes many of the Never Trump Crowd, our Justice System and the Police.

    Excellent comment, @unsk. One also has to ask about the likelihood of implementing a solution. We have the Right agreeing with your points, no doubt. But you have most of the Left insisting that they understand the problem, and we must follow their direction. They will say their hate is justified, acting against injustice is required, and freedom is only as important as the persons who hold the weapons. That is why we must never give up ours!

    • #55
  26. Sabrdance Member
    Sabrdance
    @Sabrdance

    Part of the reason I don’t think there’s a solution is that the problem predates mass ownership of firearms and current political divides.  Sometimes people just do this.  Gabriel Rossman had a link to a 1999 article, and pointed out that the phenomenon of “Running Amok” or “mengamok,” in Malay society is extremely similar to our “spree killers.”  The Malays of 1770 were a pre-modern people.  There’s no media or guns to cause their behavior (they blamed it on evil tiger spirits, which is frankly a way cooler explanation than videogames).

    And the shootings should be recognized for the semi-ritualized forms of murder they are.  They are like serial killers in hurry.  I still think there is something to the threshold/contagion theory (basically, people only do this if they know it is a thing to do, which requires an absolute number of prior examples to mimic -preconditions very easy to meet in a country of 320 million with a nationwide media presence).  However, all that means is that we could -maybe -avoid a few such incidents by better restraint on the part of media -but they will still happen, as the Malay found.

    The Malay had basically the right solution: Subdue the person running Amok as quickly as possible, and if doing so kills them, that is acceptable.

    • #56
  27. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    And the shootings should be recognized for the semi-ritualized forms of murder they are. They are like serial killers in hurry.

    It’s not the same, @sabrdance, but I can’t help thinking about the Rwanda genocide, how quickly that erupted and the unbelievably vicious attacks that happened in such a short period of time. It boggles the mind.

    • #57
  28. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    And the shootings should be recognized for the semi-ritualized forms of murder they are. They are like serial killers in hurry.

    It’s not the same, @sabrdance, but I can’t help thinking about the Rwanda genocide, how quickly that erupted and the unbelievably vicious attacks that happened in such a short period of time. It boggles the mind.

    I agree with Sabrdance here. There is a ritual element to it. How madness is played out is influenced by culture. 

    What happened in Rwanda was different.  That was ethnic, tribal violence.  One group decided to kill off another, then a response. Tribes killing off tribes is normal human behavior. 

    • #58
  29. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    And the shootings should be recognized for the semi-ritualized forms of murder they are. They are like serial killers in hurry.

    It’s not the same, @sabrdance, but I can’t help thinking about the Rwanda genocide, how quickly that erupted and the unbelievably vicious attacks that happened in such a short period of time. It boggles the mind.

    I agree with Sabrdance here. There is a ritual element to it. How madness is played out is influenced by culture.

    What happened in Rwanda was different. That was ethnic, tribal violence. One group decided to kill off another, then a response. Tribes killing off tribes is normal human behavior.

    If you study Rwanda, though, the Tutsis and Hutus had lived side by side for many years. There were some tensions, but the media was the spark–the radio announced that the Rwanda president’s plane had been shot down, and blamed the Tutsis. The rampage was on.

    • #59
  30. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Sabrdance (View Comment):
    And the shootings should be recognized for the semi-ritualized forms of murder they are. They are like serial killers in hurry.

    It’s not the same, @sabrdance, but I can’t help thinking about the Rwanda genocide, how quickly that erupted and the unbelievably vicious attacks that happened in such a short period of time. It boggles the mind.

    I agree with Sabrdance here. There is a ritual element to it. How madness is played out is influenced by culture.

    What happened in Rwanda was different. That was ethnic, tribal violence. One group decided to kill off another, then a response. Tribes killing off tribes is normal human behavior.

    If you study Rwanda, though, the Tutsis and Hutus had lived side by side for many years. There were some tensions, but the media was the spark–the radio announced that the Rwanda president’s plane had been shot down, and blamed the Tutsis. The rampage was on.

    Still tribal, not running amok. 

    They are different.  A crazed individual is acting on their own darkness. Tribal killings are killing off others who Are not as fully human. Then psychology is different. 

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