Racism: Where?

 

I started this conversation because I hear the POTUS accused of racism when I can’t hear it. I’m hardly a Trump defender – he was in my bottom three GOP candidates in 2016 (I can’t easily convey how much I dislike John Kasich and Mike Huckabee), but like many I’m very pleased overall with his tenure in office.

I don’t get how criticizing four freshmen congressman makes him racist, or singling out a congressman from a district with huge crime and poverty problems. The only way to find race here is to note that two of “the Squad” are black, as is congressman Cummings. But I don’t see the racism in the tweets, and I have read columns by several conservative commentators as well as conversations here that sort of assume it as a fact.

I have read the tweets, and I don’t see it.  The charge of racism has almost lost its meaning, since it’s applied so loosely. I mean, Congresswomen Cortez and Tlaib (I know the term Congresswomen would make them furious) are not even of a different race than the POTUS.

Since I see the POTUS’s tweets called racist without any visible argument to back it up, can someone please explain it to me? If you think the president’s tweets about any of these five congresspersons are racist, please explain it to me.

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  1. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Well, it’s really just a deflection. If you call him racist, you don’t have to treat him seriously. If you call his remarks racist, then you don’t have to address the content of those remarks.

    We saw another version of this during the Dem debates where any valid criticism of one of the Dems’ policy notions was to instantly refer to it as a Republican Talking Point.

    • #1
  2. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    It’s racist under the Democrat’s new definition of racism. Racism is disagreeing in any particular from a position supported by a Democrat or criticized any Democrat in any way. Examples:

    • A Democrat politician marries her brother to game the immigration system. Criticizing that politician for that is racist.
    • A Democrat politician embezzles tens of thousands of dollars and hides the cash in a refrigerator. Criticizing that politician for that is racist. 
    • A Democrat politician pretends to be Cherokee in order to scam the EEO system and get a minority set-aside. Criticizing that politician for that is racist. 
    • A Democrat politician drives off a bridge into the water and leaves his passenger to drown. Criticizing that politician for that is racist.

    Simple, huh. As you can see, you can be a racist even if the politician isn’t a minority or even pretending to be a minority.

    • #2
  3. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    Tex929rr: I’m hardly a Trump defender ………..but like many I’m very pleased overall with his tenure in office.

    I agree.  Even in the primaries when I was upset about his candidacy, I never thought that there was any evidence that he personally was a racist.  Like the comments above, I think “racist” is coming to mean “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat.”

    And I think they are overplaying/have overplayed their hand.  I think with a lot of people, the word “racist” is losing its punch.  When you are called racist over and over AND you know you aren’t, then you discount it when you hear it applied to others.  A silver lining perhaps?  

    I wonder what new term will eventually be used to denote “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat”?  (Let’s not go there yet.)

    • #3
  4. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    • #4
  5. Chris O. Coolidge
    Chris O.
    @ChrisO

    EB (View Comment):
    And I think they are overplaying/have overplayed their hand. I think with a lot of people, the word “racist” is losing its punch. When you are called racist over and over AND you know you aren’t, then you discount it when you hear it applied to others. A silver lining perhaps?

    Agree, and this is where the political middle shows up. It’s not any particular regard for Trump, but a disregard of the tactics that prevent things from being discussed, and from business getting done. It is a lever for gaining power, and so widely and indiscriminately applied that it’s now recognized as such.

    And as Drew says, if you can make it stick you don’t have to address the substance of the remarks. I would be very interested in seeing the talking points arguing there has been good stewardship of the city of Baltimore.

     

    • #5
  6. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Member
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    The argument that Trump’s tweets against the squad were racist is:

    1. That they incorrectly assumed that AOC, Tliab, and Pressley were naturalized rather than native-born citizens, and;
    2. That it’s more likely that Trump assumed this because they are black and brown than that the tweet was confused or he was misinformed.
    • #6
  7. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    can someone please explain it to me?

    Orange man bad.

    • #7
  8. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Member
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    Regarding the tweets against Cummings, the argument seems to be “Trump was factually incorrect and rude toward a black man about a black district.” This strikes me as incredibly weak.

    • #8
  9. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    It’s racist under the Democrat’s new definition of racism. Racism is disagreeing in any particular from a position supported by a Democrat or criticized any Democrat in any way. Examples:

    •  

    Nothing new about this. They’ve been playing this card since the 80’s.

    • #9
  10. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    This was just asked yesterday, but I’m not complaining, I get to hone my presentation.

    The charge of “racism” is not about traditional racism, but is instead a very effective political weapon with immediate and powerful effects:

    • It puts conservatives on the defense.
    • Their reaction is to look for any behavior on their side that could potentially be interpreted as racist (and either apologize for something that’s not racist, or apologize for not looking hard enough).
    • It changes the topic of discussion, getting away from a potential losing position.

    It’s proven to be incredibly effective, and it’s never backfired, so it’s been adopted as the go-to weapon of choice.  The hand grenade over the transom.

    Note that this is completely consistent with natural incentives and observations.

    • #10
  11. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    Regarding the tweets against Cummings, the argument seems to be “Trump was factually incorrect and rude toward a black man about a black district.” This strikes me as incredibly weak.

    But he wasn’t factually wrong…

    • #11
  12. rgbact Inactive
    rgbact
    @romanblichar

    So, except for 3 of the 5 people being black….and zero being white, you can’t see any racism connection, right? IDK, that seems fairly important. Would Trump be saying the same things about a white person? Questioning their US loyalties. Mocking their nasty living conditions. Telling them to “go back” to countries they either never lived in or fled. So far, he hasn’t done this.

    Its probably common for voters to enjoy a president insulting the other sides politicians/voters and being completely oblivious to how nasty it comes across to most people. I’m sure most liberals loved when Hillary trashed the deplorables and they were equally as oblivious to how nasty it made Hillary look. Partisan blinders.

    • #12
  13. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Member
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    Stina (View Comment):

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    Regarding the tweets against Cummings, the argument seems to be “Trump was factually incorrect and rude toward a black man about a black district.” This strikes me as incredibly weak.

    But he wasn’t factually wrong…

    Trump’s statement was that Cummings’ district “is considered the Worst in the USA.”

    This is simply not true.

    It has some dreadful and violent neighborhoods, but the district as a whole is middling by most measures, including life expectancy, poverty, education, etc.

    • #13
  14. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Tex929rr: I started this conversation because I hear the POTUS accused of racism when I can’t hear it.

    That’s simply because you suffer from False Consciousness.  Clearly, if you can’t hear the racism in President Trump’s comments it’s simply proof that you’re a racist.  Always remember, there’s no need to prove intent when adjudicating charges of racism.  Mens reas is itself a racist construct that must be dismantled for true justice to reign.  The vast majority of racists are too racist to recognize that they are racist.  You need to be one of the Elect the Woke to recognize the code words and dog whistles, and indeed to see that racism is systemically sublimated within the superstructure of the English language itself.

    You know, I really wish this attempt at satire wasn’t actually a pitch-perfect distillation of the actual SJW position on such matters.  There’s no way it can be healthy for me to know so much marxist jargon.

    • #14
  15. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    This was just asked yesterday, but I’m not complaining, I get to hone my presentation.

    The charge of “racism” is not about traditional racism, but is instead a very effective political weapon with immediate and powerful effects:

    • It puts conservatives on the defense.
    • Their reaction is to look for any behavior on their side that could potentially be interpreted as racist (and either apologize for something that’s not racist, or apologize for not looking hard enough).
    • It changes the topic of discussion, getting away from a potential losing position.

    It’s proven to be incredibly effective, and it’s never backfired, so it’s been adopted as the go-to weapon of choice. The hand grenade over the transom.

    Note that this is completely consistent with natural incentives and observations.

    It’s exactly like how it was impossible for a person in 1920s Russia to prove that they weren’t a member of the bourgeoisie once they had been accused of such a horrible crime.

    “I work in a factory!”

    “That was indeed an ingenious choice of disguise.  Luckily for the survival of the glorious Soviet revolution, our records show that your great-uncle on your mother’s side was an assistant manager in a pharmacy.”

    Addendum: That humourous example is actually only a slight exaggeration.  Ayn Rand’s father was a pharmacist whose business was confiscated during the revolution. Even though Rand was only 12 years old when the revolution happened, because he father was a pharmacist she was considered “suspect”, regardless of anything she did to convince them that she was a good proletarian.  After she finally got the heck out of Russia in 1924, she fictionalized how they treated her in We The Living.  I’m not actually a huge fan of Rand, but We The Living should be required reading.

    • #15
  16. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    rgbact (View Comment):
    o, except for 3 of the 5 people being black….and zero being white, you can’t see any racism connection, right?

    So he never had any rude tweets for Pelosi, or Shumer, or Kasich or …….

    How come the “squad” doesn’t get criticized for not being “inclusive”?

     

    • #16
  17. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    EB (View Comment):

    I wonder what new term will eventually be used to denote “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat”? (Let’s not go there yet.)

    We already have a bunch of other terms that have come to mean “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat”:

    • Sexist
    • Homophobic
    • Islamophobic
    • Transphobic
    • Xenophobic
    • Misogynistic
    • Theocratic
    • Nationalistic
    • Nazi
    • Fascist
    • White Supremacist
    • Gun nut
    • Hater

    Etc., etc.

    • #17
  18. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    I think that during the Obama presidency we established a new standard.  If you criticize or oppose a policy or position taken by a person who is a member of one of the protected minorities, and you are not a member of said minority, you are being racist. 

    The GOP could not criticize Obama, because he is black.  Couldn’t criticize Hillary, because she is a woman.  Can’t criticize the squad, because they are women and people of color. 

    It is no more complicated than that.  If the progressive is a minority, they have absolute moral authority, and if the person commenting is white, they have white privilege ( negative moral authority), so they just simply can not say a word in opposition. 

    (of course none of this is operable if the minority person happens to be a conservative. That is a traitor, so you can’t be racist towards them. ) 

     

    Once you understand this standard, it makes sense.  Saying negative things about Cummings?  racist.  It does not matter the context, or the statement, or how accurate the comment.   It only matters that he is black and Trump is not. 

     

    • #18
  19. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Member
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Once you understand this standard, it makes sense. Saying negative things about Cummings? racist. It does not matter the context, or the statement, or how accurate the comment. It only matters that he is black and Trump is not. 

     

    We’re in agreement about the Cummings tweets.

    What is your take about the ones against the Squad?

    • #19
  20. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    What is your take about the ones against the Squad?

    America, love it or leave it?  I remember that sentiment back during the war protest era.  The hippie anti war protestors were predominately white, so it wasn’t racist then.  What makes it racist now?  Only the fact that they are women of color. 

    I have no question in my mind that if a white french woman were here running down the country, Trump would have the same comment.

    • #20
  21. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    rgbact (View Comment):

    So, except for 3 of the 5 people being black….and zero being white, you can’t see any racism connection, right? IDK, that seems fairly important. Would Trump be saying the same things about a white person? Questioning their US loyalties. Mocking their nasty living conditions. Telling them to “go back” to countries they either never lived in or fled. So far, he hasn’t done this.

    Its probably common for voters to enjoy a president insulting the other sides politicians/voters and being completely oblivious to how nasty it comes across to most people. I’m sure most liberals loved when Hillary trashed the deplorables and they were equally as oblivious to how nasty it made Hillary look. Partisan blinders.

    All 5 are not white.  How?  AOC is Caucasian; so is Tlaib.  Did you just invent some more races?

    The POTUS insults pretty much everyone who disagrees with him.  Was he meaner to the Squad than he was to Kathy Griffin? Or Hilary Clinton?

    Again, there is no “there” there.  

    • #21
  22. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    To further illustrate, just look at when AOC called Pelosi racist.  Not because of any ‘racist’ statements, but because she was not allowing the women of color in the squad to dictate policy to the level they would like. 

    Oppose them, or even just not support them enough, when you are white?  Racist. 

    • #22
  23. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Once you understand this standard, it makes sense. Saying negative things about Cummings? racist. It does not matter the context, or the statement, or how accurate the comment. It only matters that he is black and Trump is not.

     

    We’re in agreement about the Cummings tweets.

    What is your take about the ones against the Squad?

    Trump took his hot take against Omar and carelessly scatter-shot it at her whole squad.  That doesn’t make him a racist, just a careless loud-mouth.  After decades of being called all the -ists listed above by pretty much the entire Left for the vile sin of disagreeing with them, I can’t get worked up about it.

    • #23
  24. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    Trump took his hot take against Omar and carelessly scatter-shot it at her whole squad

    If you look at the actual tweet, he does not name anyone.

    • #24
  25. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    From a legal angle, it derives from determinations in the law that actions that have a “disparate impact” on people who are not white people is presumed to be improperly racial discrimination. 

    The courts have ruled (incorrectly in my opinion, but my opinion doesn’t count) in employment and other areas subject to anti discrimination law that if an action (such as a competence test or a dress code rule) has a “disparate impact” on people who are not white is presumptively improper racial discrimination, and shifts the burden of proof to the employer to establish that the action has a legitimate purpose necessary for the job. So, all you have to do to establish “racial discrimination” is show that non-whites are more affected than are whites.

    By logical extension, anything said about a place or group of people that affects more non-whites than whites (crime statistics, poverty statistics, political opinions, etc.) is presumptively “racist.”

    <I’m not saying I agree with this logic. I’m just laying out the logic.>

    • #25
  26. Misthiocracy secretly Member
    Misthiocracy secretly
    @Misthiocracy

    Terry Mott (View Comment):

    EB (View Comment):

    I wonder what new term will eventually be used to denote “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat”? (Let’s not go there yet.)

    We already have a bunch of other terms that have come to mean “anybody that disagrees with a Democrat”:

    • Sexist
    • Homophobic
    • Islamophobic
    • Transphobic
    • Xenophobic
    • Misogynistic
    • Theocratic
    • Nationalistic
    • Nazi
    • Fascist
    • White Supremacist
    • Gun nut
    • Hater

    Etc., etc.

    You neglected “extremist”, which is another fine word beloved by tyrants.

    What is an extremist, after all?

    At it’s most basic, an extremist is anybody whose beliefs veer off in any direction away from the officially-sanctioned range of opinion.

    Heck, to even question whether or not the officially-sanctioned range of opinion should be just a little bit wider, or even a little bit narrower, is itself proof that one is an extremist.

    After all, only an extremist would even tolerate opinions that are outside the officially-sanctioned range, and only an extremist would want to limit the range of opinion ever further than what has already been officially-sanctioned.

    It’s a truly great catch-all term to describe anybody one doesn’t agree with.

    • #26
  27. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    PHenry (View Comment):

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    Trump took his hot take against Omar and carelessly scatter-shot it at her whole squad

    If you look at the actual tweet, he does not name anyone.

    Nope. They all self-identified.

    • #27
  28. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Member
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    PHenry (View Comment):

    America, love it or leave it? I remember that sentiment back during the war protest era. The hippie anti war protestors were predominately white, so it wasn’t racist then. What makes it racist now? Only the fact that they are women of color.

     

    Had Trump said “America, love it or leave it,” I would have found it far less problematic.

    PHenry (View Comment):

    I have no question in my mind that if a white french woman were here running down the country, Trump would have the same comment.

    Again, the biggest problem with the tweets against the Squad was the assumption that AOC, Pressley, and Tliab are foreign. Had Trump had directed his “go back” comment solely at Omar, it would at least make some sense. Sadly, he did not.

    • #28
  29. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    Regarding the tweets against Cummings, the argument seems to be “Trump was factually incorrect and rude toward a black man about a black district.” This strikes me as incredibly weak.

    But he wasn’t factually wrong…

    Trump’s statement was that Cummings’ district “is considered the Worst in the USA.”

    This is simply not true.

    It has some dreadful and violent neighborhoods, but the district as a whole is middling by most measures, including life expectancy, poverty, education, etc.

    Baltimore has the highest murder rate among the 50 largest US cities.  The Baltimore CBS station just fact checked the POTUS’s claim that the Baltimore murder rate is higher than the rates in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala.  And found it to be true.  (Maybe Baltimoreans should head for Texas and seek asylum).

    https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2019/08/01/fact-check-baltimore-murder-rate-higher-than-el-salvador-guatemala-honduras/

    And a Baltimore TV news crew doing a stand up story about the POTUS’s claims had a rat run through the background while filming.  

    https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/rat-runs-through-baltimore-tv-reporters-live-report

     

    • #29
  30. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    Had Trump had directed his “go back” comment solely at Omar, it would at least make some sense. Sadly, he did not.

    Well, he didn’t direct it at the squad either, specifically.  But also keep in mind, he didn’t really say ‘go back’.  He said, essentially, if you come from some country that has such horrible living conditions that you had to get out, then you probably should not come here and complain about the living conditions.  It was a modified version of Matthew 7.3’Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?’

    Was it racist when Jesus said it? 

    • #30
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