The Children on the Border

 

It’s been almost a week since the AP reported the latest – and worst – story about the treatment of children in a USCBP facility. Not one. Single. Post about it here on Ricochet.

*Crickets*

Almost like this isn’t happening.

Don’t believe the AP? Think it’s just “fake news”?

Watch the government’s own lawyer, here.

This individual is representing not only the administration’s position, but, by extension, We the People.

To defenders of the Trump Administration’s immigration and detention policy:

Are you ok with the treatment of children at this facility?

Is this simply one of the costs of deterrence and taking a “hard line”…?

Don’t tell me about “the Democrats.” Don’t mention “Crooked Hillary” or Obama’s immigration policies. Answer the question: Are you ok with what’s being described in the story?

Published in Immigration
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  1. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    I’d prefer to just send them back where they came from the day they make contact.

     

    • #1
  2. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Fred, quite a few posts have been made on Ricochet about the challenge of dealing with the crisis at the border. I’ve written some myself.

    The AP story, as heartrending as it is, isn’t particularly new: the law, as written, makes the situation essentially impossible. As the article says, many of these children enter alone; the law does not allow children to be detained even when their parents (or supposed parents) are; there is insufficient funding to relieve the overcrowding; our asylum laws are in desperate need of reform; there are Constitutional limits to what the President can do to limit the influx; and Congress refuses to act.

    All of these points have been made here before.

    No, the situation is not acceptable. However, neither is the alternative the Democrats prefer — that we simply open the borders.

    And don’t tell me not to mention the Democrats: it’s their refusal to allow the law to be changed and enforced, and their bizarre insistence that the President do, through some abuse of executive power, what the legislature steadfastly refuses to do, that makes the current situation both intolerable and unavoidable.

    The right answer is, as Congressman Hurd observed in the article, to reform asylum laws and increase funding for housing and processing. That will require that Congress act.

     

    Addendum:

    You addressed your question to “defenders of the Trump Administration’s immigration and detention policy.” I guess I’m one of those, to the extent that the Trump administration’s policy is to comply with the law while not simply releasing illegal immigrants — including unaccompanied minors — into the country without control.

    Because that would be worse, in my opinion, than the overcrowding and other challenges at the border.

    @fredhadra, your post seems to suggest that more virtue signaling is required of Ricochet members — and, in particular, of Trump-supporting Ricochet members. I’ll give it a shot: it’s awful the problem these illegal immigrants and our misguided courts and lawmakers have created, and unfortunate that President Trump appears to be incapable of dealing with it without violating the law.

    Is that adequate?

     

    • #2
  3. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Rather than circumscribing what others are allowed to say, perhaps you could have used the space to propose your own solution.

    • #3
  4. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    In this OP are you representing Ricochet management in your criticism of members’ failure to address an issue in a manner of which you approve?

    • #4
  5. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    To defenders of the Trump Administration’s immigration and detention policy:

    Are you ok with the treatment of children at this facility?

    Is this simply one of the costs of deterrence and taking a “hard line”…?

    What should the Trump Administration be doing? Would a return to the Obama Administration’s immigration and detention policy fix the situation? @fredhadra

     

    What level of responsibility applies to the adults who brought the children here?

    • #5
  6. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

     Trumps “hard line” is a position held by a lot of Conservatives and Republicans.

    The problem is not the hard line on immigration but the swarms of immigrants try to cross right now. 

    You beg the question here. Democrat polices are at the heart of the increased immigration, Democrats are saying they won’t provide funding for better conditions, as the Administration is asking, they just want the people released. Democrats are saying open boarders or horrible conditions. Those are the only two choices they are allowing. 

    I also get to say Obama. His polices were the same. Half the “stock photos” used in these stories are from detention centers before Trump was elected. 

     

    • #6
  7. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Jager (View Comment):
    You beg the question here. Democrat polices are at the heart of the increased immigration

    And that immigration is illegal and the President is obligated to enforce federal law. Congress needs to do what is necessary to allow that. America has long standing as the most humanitarian country on earth, so the tone of the OP is fashionably Leftist.

    • #7
  8. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Fred, I simply no longer trust AP nor any of the other news outlets to provide the whole truth.  I have done so much follow up research only to discover their deception that I just automatically assume what I am reading is not the truth, or not the whole truth, and is written to deceive (with the best intentions, of course).   The background story is either not provided or cherry picked to support some hidden agenda that – oh, never mind.

    Maybe that’s good, maybe not .  But that’s the facts, and do you think I’m alone?

     

    • #8
  9. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    I’m willing to concede/believe that the conditions at the border are poor .  Still, by attempting to frame the issue in terms of whether one is “OK” with this treatment, the entire matter becomes oversimplified.  I am not OK with the national debt.  I am not OK with the manufacture of products in China. I am not OK with the slaughter of Christians around the globe.  And, no, I am not OK with the confinement of children at the border.

    So what?  Being OK or not OK with a policy is wasted thought in the absence of an assessment of the alternatives and the pinpointing of the root causes of the problem.  Those who make policy by optics are usually doomed to run from one short term “solution” to the next.

     

    • #9
  10. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Member
    Shawn Buell (Majestyk)
    @Majestyk

    Perhaps @fredhadra you would prefer that we lock children up who arrive at the border with their “parents” in detention facilities or jails with those adults.  Placing children in jail with adults is sure to create some very positive outcomes.  I say “parents” because it is not obvious that such children are actually related to the adults who show up with them.

    Make no mistake: this situation is entirely the creation of… the people who are attempting to come to this nation in contravention of its laws.  Have they no regard for their own children’s wellbeing?

    Ponder this: If we had a fully functioning and constructed border barrier, the sheer number of people attempting to come here in this fashion would doubtless be far less, significantly reducing the attendant number of separations and sheer amount of human suffering.

    That makes building the Wall practically a humanitarian necessity.  Don’t you agree?

     

    • #10
  11. Barry Jones Thatcher
    Barry Jones
    @BarryJones

    That Video clip was of an appeal of an Obama era case. The situation on the border has existed for a long time. Conditions are getting worse because more people are attempting to cross the border and more are getting caught – more people than the agencies are funded to deal with. On top of that, the Democrats in Congress are refusing to allocate more funds to deal with the border crisis. What is your solution?

    • #11
  12. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Fred Hadra:

    Don’t believe the AP? Think it’s just “fake news”?

    Watch the government’s own lawyer, here.

    Rich Lowry points out that the governments lawyer was making a legal/technical argument and not advocating for the mistreatment of children. And more importantly that the underlying case stemmed from Obama era treatment of migrants in 2015 (pre-Trump)

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/06/border-crisis-immigration-debate/

    • #12
  13. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):
     

    Perhaps @fredhadra you would prefer that we lock children up who arrive at the border with their “parents” in detention facilities or jails with those adults.

    ‘Many children interviewed had arrived alone at the U.S.-Mexico border’

    That’s a quote from the AP article, how does one even begin when children cross a country alone to claim asylum?

    • #13
  14. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):

    That makes building the Wall practically a humanitarian necessity. Don’t you agree?

     

    Yeah, a wall will be a formidable object for infants and children who are alone.

    • #14
  15. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):

    Perhaps @fredhadra you would prefer that we lock children up who arrive at the border with their “parents” in detention facilities or jails with those adults.

    ‘Many children interviewed had arrived alone at the U.S.-Mexico border’

    That’s a quote from the AP article, how does one even begin when children cross a country alone to claim asylum?

    Would they be better off with the parents who sent them on their way?

    • #15
  16. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Member
    Shawn Buell (Majestyk)
    @Majestyk

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    ‘Many children interviewed had arrived alone at the U.S.-Mexico border’

    That’s a quote from the AP article, how does one even begin when children cross a country alone to claim asylum?

    Yes – those children just decided to up and leave their homes and walk to America of their own volition without any adult intervention. Especially the infants.

    This is the kind of high quality analysis the internet has become famous for.

    • #16
  17. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):

    That makes building the Wall practically a humanitarian necessity. Don’t you agree?

     

    Yeah, a wall will be a formidable object for infants and children who are alone.

    Infants?  There are infants arriving alone??  Oh, the humanity!

    • #17
  18. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    In this OP are you representing Ricochet management in your criticism of members’ failure to address an issue in a manner of which you approve?

    Mr. Hadra does not speak for Ricochet Management here, he speaks solely for himself as a Ricochet member.

    I disagree with him deeply here, but other members have covered the matter already better than I could.

    • #18
  19. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    In this OP are you representing Ricochet management in your criticism of members’ failure to address an issue in a manner of which you approve?

    Mr. Hadra does not speak for Ricochet Management here, he speaks solely for himself as a Ricochet member.

    I disagree with him deeply here, but other members have covered the matter already better than I could.

    It is my hope that Mr. Hadra can see through all this smoke. If a narrative such as this gets any lasting traction, it will make the Palestinians in the Middle East look like child’s play.

    • #19
  20. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Fred Hadra:

     

    Are you ok with the treatment of children at this facility?

    yep.  hungry and sleeping on floor was OK for my childhood.  All these kids are better off than with the human traffickers that smuggled them into the country.  It is sad that kids are being used as a weapon and a tool for breaking immigration laws.

    • #20
  21. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    DonG (View Comment):

    Fred Hadra:

    Are you ok with the treatment of children at this facility?

    yep. hungry and sleeping on floor was OK for my childhood. All these kids are better off than with the human traffickers that smuggled them into the country. It is sad that kids are being used as a weapon and a tool for breaking immigration laws.

    Indeed. The response to such questions should always be “compared to what?”

    • #21
  22. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    I’ve long thought we should use the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay Naval base to house asylum seekers until their asylum hearing.

    If they are denied asylum, they can be returned to their country of origin.  If they win their case, we can fly them wherever they want to go.  In the interim, we can teach them English.

    It will cost more initially, but once word gets around of this policy, the cost will approach zero.

    • #22
  23. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    I’ve long thought we should use the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay Naval base to house asylum seekers until their asylum hearing.

    If they are denied asylum, they can be returned to their country of origin.

    It will cost more initially, but once word gets around of this policy, the cost will approach zero.

    This would be effective because most would want to avoid being in GitMo so they would not cross the border as asylum seekers.

    • #23
  24. Fred Hadra Member
    Fred Hadra
    @FredHadra

    To quote the President of the United States: “I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and the losers…”

     

    • #24
  25. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    I’ve long thought we should use the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay Naval base to house asylum seekers until their asylum hearing.

    If they are denied asylum, they can be returned to their country of origin.

    It will cost more initially, but once word gets around of this policy, the cost will approach zero.

    This would be effective because most would want to avoid being in GitMo so they would not cross the border as asylum seekers.

    Which is why the cost would approach zero. It’s a lovely area.  I spent several weeks there in 1989, and I’m pretty sure we stayed where the detention center is now.  

    Then the media can be outraged about insufficiently inflated sports balls.  

    • #25
  26. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    I’ve long thought we should use the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay Naval base to house asylum seekers until their asylum hearing.

    If they are denied asylum, they can be returned to their country of origin.

    It will cost more initially, but once word gets around of this policy, the cost will approach zero.

    This would be effective because most would want to avoid being in GitMo so they would not cross the border as asylum seekers.

    Which is why the cost would approach zero. It’s a lovely area. I spent several weeks there in 1989, and I’m pretty sure we stayed where the detention center is now.

    Then the media can be outraged about insufficiently inflated sports balls.

    Yeah, I don’t think GitMo would be avoided due to some thought it’s not a nice place but just the inconvenience and the knowledge of facing an orderly process, they would just cross as normal illegals and take their chances, if they cross at all.

    • #26
  27. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    It’s been almost how many decades these invaders have been crossing Our border? Not one. Single. Post about the Mexican government and culture Here on Ricochet.

    *Crickets*

    Almost like Americans are the villains.

    Are You ok with Americans being portrayed as villains? 

     

    • #27
  28. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Hadra (View Comment):

    To quote the President of the United States: “I would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and the losers…”

     

    I can’t forgive them. They made AOC weep.

    • #28
  29. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Yeah, I don’t think GitMo would be avoided due to some thought it not a nice place but just the inconvenience and the knowledge of facing an orderly process, they would just cross as normal illegals and take their chance, if they cross at all.

    Understood.  They understand their asylum claims will likely be denied (I’ve heard that something like 90% of them are) so they don’t really want asylum (though they would be happy to accept it if granted), they simply want to disappear into the interior of the US.

    Which is precisely why they need to be detained until their asylum hearing.  

    I’m just recommending Guantanamo because it is designed for long-term housing and it is largely empty because Obama released its former occupants to go kill American soldiers.   

     

    • #29
  30. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Yeah, I don’t think GitMo would be avoided due to some thought it not a nice place but just the inconvenience and the knowledge of facing an orderly process, they would just cross as normal illegals and take their chance, if they cross at all.

    Understood. They understand their asylum claims will likely be denied (I’ve heard that something like 90% of them are) so they don’t really want asylum (though they would be happy to accept it if granted), they simply want to disappear into the interior of the US.

    Which is precisely why they need to be detained until their asylum hearing.

    I’m just recommending Guantanamo because it is designed for long-term housing and it is largely empty because Obama released its former occupants to go kill American soldiers.

     

    I endorse that. It would legitimize the asylum process and allow the law to be enforced against illegal entry.

    • #30
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