Why Jews Have Abandoned Judaism

 

Abandon is a pretty strong word; I could have worded my title differently, but I believe that most of modern Jewry have, for all intents and purposes, left the fold. Only a small number of Jews are observant Jews, and I am not one of them. I decided to explore this question, and hopefully clarify for myself not just what it means to be a Jew, but what it means for me to be Jew. As you look at the lives of Jews whom you know, you might want to explore some of these issues with them. I am including some of my personal experiences as a Jew, and I will leave you to determine the legitimacy of my claims.

First, I was raised in a nearly secular family. We rarely if ever discussed G-d. I don’t even know if my father believed in G-d. Although my mother occasionally mentioned G-d, her level of belief (if at all) was unclear. Both my parents were raised in broken homes, with some version of Judaism that might have included keeping kosher, but I honestly don’t know if they observed any of the holidays. I know that my father read Hebrew, but I just now realize that I don’t know if he was a bar mitzvah. And both my parents have died. When I asked my father why he grudgingly went to synagogue on the High Holidays, he said he didn’t need to go there to experience G-d. Whether he experienced G-d elsewhere I’ll never know.

But for some strange reason, my mother decided that she wanted us to have some kind of Jewish upbringing. So we went to Hebrew School three times a week after public school for a couple of years. My brother was a bar mitzvah, but when my parents asked if I was interested in being a bat mitzvah, I said no. Mainly, I didn’t see a good reason to do it. Besides, my folks had limited funds and I didn’t want them to have the expense.

Once I left home, my Jewish practice was mostly abandoned. I picked it up a bit when I was hired to teach an afternoon class at a local synagogue for kids around ten years old. The curriculum was up to me, and I don’t remember much about what I taught. But the principal of the school liked me and kept me on for my senior year of college. For some reason, I still felt emotionally connected to Judaism but didn’t practice anything. I was a Jew in name only; I wouldn’t call myself a secular Jew since I’d always believed in G-d.

So how would I describe my faith through the early part of my adult life? Weak, indifferent, even haphazard. Many of you know that I practiced Buddhism for 20 years, married a gentile, and found my way back to Judaism. Not much of a Jew.

I think I’m typical of modern Jews in many ways. I held on to my Jewish identity (which Buddhism was indifferent to) and made some periodic efforts at observance: a Passover seder here, a Chanukah celebration there. I even went to Israel for a year and fell in love with her. But not enough to change my ways.

The way I’m quite different from today’s Jews is my deep belief in G-d. I have also integrated some Jewish daily practices into my life, including a limited observance of the Sabbath; I study Torah with a study partner and have co-written a book on Judaism. And I was never attracted to Leftist ideology, which I think many Jews have used to replace their faith. They don’t realize in accepting Leftism, they are betraying many of their Jewish values. More on that later.

So why are so many Jews indifferent to Judaism and have abandoned their faith? Here are some explanations:

Many Jews never found a way to connect to Judaism in a deeply spiritual way. Those raised in some Orthodox families felt beleaguered by the 613 mitzvot ordered by a G-d they couldn’t relate to. Many were raised by parents who held disdain for Judaism, due to Marxist leanings or disillusionment with the Holocaust. Many were raised with no Jewish identification at all. Many gravitated to Buddhism, which provides community, and Zen, in particular, focuses on meditation and has no dogma. It was my meditation practice that ironically deepened my connection to G-d, but that isn’t the experience of many other Jews. And Buddhism doesn’t speak of G-d, so that fact freed them from having to deal with the “G-d question.”

Many people became disillusioned with Judaism after the Holocaust, and they passed on that anger and disappointment. People felt that G-d had made a covenant with the Jews to protect us, and many people and their children felt they had been abandoned. For myself, I don’t know the reasons that G-d didn’t step in, but men were the ones who created the Holocaust, through their free will. Still, those who survived had serious questions:

Was God dead? Was He just indifferent–or worse, a sadist? If He could not be counted on to live up to His reputation for mercy and intervene, what good was He? And if He did not intervene, by what reasoning did He merit our allegiance?

Judaism teaches that maintaining Jewish continuity will bring blessings to one’s descendants. But the descendants of identified Jews (anyone with one Jewish grandparent) were the ones who [cynics might argue] fell into Hitler’s trap, the observant along with the secular, the pious along with the apikores (apostate). For those left to sort out the implications of the devastation, nothing could possibly justify what was seen as God’s brutal and wholesale betrayal of the Jewish people.

Through the centuries, Jews were persecuted by the peoples with whom they lived. When Marxism offered an alternative utopian view in the 19th century, many Jews joined up. And especially when Marxism was lauded after World War II, the Jews were even more enamored. Many found their way to the Left as well, and for many years, much of Marxist belief is found in Leftist doctrine.

Many Jews who are on the Left must suffer cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, they hold on to their Jewish identification, and yet they want to be accepted as part of the Left and promote Leftists ideas. It will be interesting to see whether Jews begin to realize, like the German Jews, that they have never been fully accepted, demonstrated by the Left’s acceptance of anti-Semitism.

Judaism in its Orthodox form is demanding. We live in a time when we want life to be carefree and convenient. Many aspects of Judaism require a Jew to make the faith central to life. Many everyday actions call for blessings and acknowledgment. It is easiest for some to simply discredit this ancient and rich faith because it is not easy to develop a coherent practice.

Jews feel little if any responsibility for perpetuating Judaism. At one time, it didn’t occur to me that every Jew is called to help Judaism survive. So I married the man I fell in love with since he didn’t mind my following whatever practices I wished; he even participated at times. We were even married by a Reform rabbi, who said he wouldn’t marry us if my husband had a serious connection to another religion (which he did not). Nearly 45 years later, we are together, but Judaism struggles in our home.

There are many other reasons why Jews have abandoned Judaism, and many of them have abandoned it for the religion of the Left. But here’s the truth:

You can’t be a Jew and be on the political Left. Jews on the Left have betrayed Judaism in a number of ways. It calls on us to remember that each person is created in the image of G-d; it doesn’t leave out Conservatives. It requires Jews not to destroy the reputation of others; presidents and attorney generals are not free game. If we look at the values that the Jews on the Left espouse but ignore, they would not be able to justify their actions and behaviors in many situations. I reject that a good Jew, defined most broadly, can legitimately follow Leftism.

It simply can’t be done.

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  1. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

     

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I won’t elaborate — sorry to be tiresome to you.

    Well, now I feel like a jerk. Let me try this approach. First, I think our being clear with each other about where I believe the breakdown occurs is helpful. I just realized that it’s not just our having a different understanding of Judaism; it’s how you to choose to express what you understand (which either is not always legitimate or is distorted in some cases). It’s difficult for me to debate you because your Christian understanding is more extensive than my Jewish understanding, but not always in concert with my understanding of Judaism. Not only that, but you select information that supports a very narrow point of view to make your point. Example: the only thing similar to ancient wars and the Holocaust is that lots of Jews died. The purposes, strategies, results and other factors were entirely different. I think that is important, and so trying to compare them doesn’t comport. Sometimes you make general statements that are too general to be helpful. Example: Although the Orthodox communities are small, they are very observant. No, they don’t stone people anymore (at least in Western countries), but Jews also believe in obeying the civil laws. Stoning is frowned on. ;-) So if your comments are “tiresome,” it is because IMHO, they are just off enough to require a lot of effort on my part to correct them. You can call that laziness or a lack of education, or a lack of patience.

    Those are the reasons I prefer not to debate theology or have to defend Judaism, because I still don’t know enough. I’m glad to answer questions when I can, but that is different than debating.

    Susan, you’re anything but a jerk!

    Thanks for this response.  I’m backing off, as indicated in my prior comment.  A friend is always entitled to say something like “now is not the time.”  :)

    • #31
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I won’t elaborate — sorry to be tiresome to you.

    Well, now I feel like a jerk. Let me try this approach. First, I think our being clear with each other about where I believe the breakdown occurs is helpful. I just realized that it’s not just our having a different understanding of Judaism; it’s how you to choose to express what you understand (which either is not always legitimate or is distorted in some cases). It’s difficult for me to debate you because your Christian understanding is more extensive than my Jewish understanding, but not always in concert with my understanding of Judaism. Not only that, but you select information that supports a very narrow point of view to make your point. Example: the only thing similar to ancient wars and the Holocaust is that lots of Jews died. The purposes, strategies, results and other factors were entirely different. I think that is important, and so trying to compare them doesn’t comport. Sometimes you make general statements that are too general to be helpful. Example: Although the Orthodox communities are small, they are very observant. No, they don’t stone people anymore (at least in Western countries), but Jews also believe in obeying the civil laws. Stoning is frowned on. ;-)  So if your comments are “tiresome,” it is because IMHO, they are just off enough to require a lot of effort on my part to correct them. You can call that laziness or a lack of education, or a lack of patience.

    Those are the reasons I prefer not to debate theology or have to defend Judaism, because I still don’t know enough. I’m glad to answer questions when I can, but that is different than debating.

    • #32
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Oops — I think that I just accidentally deleted my comment #31 above, when I was trying to respond to Susan’s #32.  My new #31 is the response to her #32.  My original #31 seems to be gone forever.

    • #33
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Oops — I think that I just accidentally deleted my comment #31 above, when I was trying to respond to Susan’s #32. My new #31 is the response to her #32. My original #31 seems to be gone forever.

    As long as you’ve figured out which comment is where,  I’m happy. 

    • #34
  5. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Susan, I have another thought in response to the OP, having nothing to do with theology.

    One of the consequences of the Holocaust was the extreme concentration of surviving Jews in Israel and America.  This might contribute to the abandonment of Judaism.

    It is possible that the special challenges faced by Jews, living in generally small communities in larger nations and in conditions of significant friction (at best) to outright slaughter (at worse), may have contributed to very strong commitment by Jews to their community and their faith.  This does not seem unique to Jews, as Christianity often seems to thrive under persecution or hostility, as well.

    Now the Jews have their own state in Israel, and are remarkably well accepted and integrated in America (compared to everywhere else).  This relative safety may eliminate the perception that it is essential for a Jew to hold strongly to his own people, faith, and tradition.  A decline in commitment is understandable in such circumstances.

    • #35
  6. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Susan Quinn: You can’t be a Jew and be on the political Left. Jews on the Left have betrayed Judaism in a number of ways.

    I feel the same way when I see a bumper sticker that says, “I’m Christian and I vote Democrat.”  You might as well say, ‘I’m a vegan, and I eat meat while wearing leather.”

    • #36
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: You can’t be a Jew and be on the political Left. Jews on the Left have betrayed Judaism in a number of ways.

    I feel the same way when I see a bumper sticker that says, “I’m Christian and I vote Democrat.” You might as well say, ‘I’m a vegan, and I eat meat while wearing leather.”

    Ha! Ha!

    • #37
  8. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: You can’t be a Jew and be on the political Left. Jews on the Left have betrayed Judaism in a number of ways.

    I feel the same way when I see a bumper sticker that says, “I’m Christian and I vote Democrat.” You might as well say, ‘I’m a vegan, and I eat meat while wearing leather.”

    I’m always torn by those sorts of bumper stickers.  Faith should be above politics, and I think it hurts Christianity when it becomes so intertwined with being a Republican, just as it hurts Judaism for it be intertwined with being a Democrat.  

    • #38
  9. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Susan Quinn:

    People felt that G-d had made a covenant with the Jews to protect us, and many people and their children felt they had been abandoned. For myself, I don’t know the reasons that G-d didn’t step in, but men were the ones who created the Holocaust, through their free will.

    David Berlinski:

    • #39
  10. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Great post!

    There’s also bad philosophy.  You can blame us philosophers for just about everything wrong with the world.  I’ll make my point the easy way, by copying and pasting from when @davidfrench quoted me:

    I think a fundamental reason college students tend to lose their religion is a pernicious form of cultural conditioning. I don’t mean the kind of conditioning that tells them religion is bad. I mean that we have been conditioned to accept, without questioning, a few ideas which are very unfriendly to a robust religious faith.

    The first idea is the old fact/value dichotomy: Facts are verifiable, and whatever is verifiable is a fact; values are not verifiable. Facts are objective; values are subjective, relative, or both.

    The second idea is a certain understanding of the difference between science and religion: Science is privileged among the other pursuits of truth because it is only concerned with facts; as such, it has an objectivity which other pursuits of truth, particularly religion, can never have.

    The third idea is the division of faith and knowledge: Knowledge and faith are never the same thing; you can only have faith in something you do not know; knowing a truth precludes having faith in that truth.

    . . .

    A religious creed by definition is a statement of belief in an objective fact of the matter, the matter in question being the nature of the universe and man’s proper place in it. These three ideas deny the possibility of justified true belief about the nature of the universe and man’s proper place in it, so they are incompatible with dogma of any variety (Christian, Islamic, Judaistic, Buddhistic, etc.). In giving up the orthodoxy of her childhood a student who accepts these three ideas is only being logical.

    • #40
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Susan, I have another thought in response to the OP, having nothing to do with theology.

    One of the consequences of the Holocaust was the extreme concentration of surviving Jews in Israel and America. This might contribute to the abandonment of Judaism.

    It is possible that the special challenges faced by Jews, living in generally small communities in larger nations and in conditions of significant friction (at best) to outright slaughter (at worse), may have contributed to very strong commitment by Jews to their community and their faith. This does not seem unique to Jews, as Christianity often seems to thrive under persecution or hostility, as well.

    Now the Jews have their own state in Israel, and are remarkably well accepted and integrated in America (compared to everywhere else). This relative safety may eliminate the perception that it is essential for a Jew to hold strongly to his own people, faith, and tradition. A decline in commitment is understandable in such circumstances.

    A very thoughtful observation, Jerry. Thank you! Yes, I think that contributes to the complacency of Jews in this country. They feel safe as Americans and put their Jewish identification on the back burner.

    • #41
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Great post!

    There’s also bad philosophy. You can blame us philosophers for just about everything wrong with the world. I’ll make my point the easy way, by copying and pasting from when @davidfrench quoted me:

    I think a fundamental reason college students tend to lose their religion is a pernicious form of cultural conditioning. I don’t mean the kind of conditioning that tells them religion is bad. I mean that we have been conditioned to accept, without questioning, a few ideas which are very unfriendly to a robust religious faith.

    The first idea is the old fact/value dichotomy: Facts are verifiable, and whatever is verifiable is a fact; values are not verifiable. Facts are objective; values are subjective, relative, or both.

    The second idea is a certain understanding of the difference between science and religion: Science is privileged among the other pursuits of truth because it is only concerned with facts; as such, it has an objectivity which other pursuits of truth, particularly religion, can never have.

    The third idea is the division of faith and knowledge: Knowledge and faith are never the same thing; you can only have faith in something you do not know; knowing a truth precludes having faith in that truth.

    . . .

    A religious creed by definition is a statement of belief in an objective fact of the matter, the matter in question being the nature of the universe and man’s proper place in it. These three ideas deny the possibility of justified true belief about the nature of the universe and man’s proper place in it, so they are incompatible with dogma of any variety (Christian, Islamic, Judaistic, Buddhistic, etc.). In giving up the orthodoxy of her childhood a student who accepts these three ideas is only being logical.

    Thanks, St. A. Isn’t this the Renaissance for the 21st century? So sad.

    • #42
  13. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Faith should be above politics, and I think it hurts Christianity when it becomes so intertwined with being a Republican, just as it hurts Judaism for it be intertwined with being a Democrat.

    I agree.

    • #43
  14. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Stad (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Faith should be above politics, and I think it hurts Christianity when it becomes so intertwined with being a Republican, just as it hurts Judaism for it be intertwined with being a Democrat.

    I agree.

    How does faith do when it just becomes intertwined with not being a Democrat?

    • #44
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    How does faith do when it just becomes intertwined with not being a Democrat?

    St. A, I’m intrigued but don’t understand. Or are you just being playing on Skip’s words?

    • #45
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    How does faith do when it just becomes intertwined with not being a Democrat?

    St. A, I’m intrigued but don’t understand. Or are you just being playing on Skip’s words?

    You and others have said it yourself here: There are certain faiths it’s hard to practice while also supporting certain kinds of politics.

    True, it’s not good for a faith to be identified with the alternative brand of politics.

    So what do you do if you’re a person of faith in such a situation?  Maybe you just have to acknowledge that your faith requires that you not be part of that political party, but carefully refuse to say that it requires you to be a part of the other party.

    • #46
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    You and others have said it yourself here: There are certain faiths it’s hard to practice while also supporting certain kinds of politics.

    True, it’s not good for a faith to be identified with the alternative brand of politics.

    So what do you do if you’re a person of faith in such a situation? Maybe you just have to acknowledge that your faith requires that you not be part of that political party, but carefully refuse to say that it requires you to be a part of the other party.

    I don’t think people bother to reflect on these kinds of important questions. They just do what they want to do. Making sure that we are consistent and true to our faiths in various parts of our lives or in regard to the people or groups we affiliate with takes a deep commitment to be a person of integrity. I think most people would either say it’s too much trouble or say we are misinterpreting their religion or politics.

    One thing that comes to mind for my own beliefs is commenting on Ricochet. Earlier I commented on not attacking another person’s reputation. But I do that on this site. Rarely do I make a truly vicious or direct attack, but that’s just making excuses. I haven’t quite figured how to deal with that issue.

    • #47
  18. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    Faith should be above politics, and I think it hurts Christianity when it becomes so intertwined with being a Republican, just as it hurts Judaism for it be intertwined with being a Democrat.

    I agree.

    How does faith do when it just becomes intertwined with not being a Democrat?

    It’s still a bad bargain.

    If what we say we believe is true, then it is true not just for us but for all people, no matter where they are in life.  Now I grant that if one accepts all this fully, one should with fear and trembling make a harsh examination of one’s life, and that may include how one understands politics, but that really means moving beyond party affiliation.  There is a real risk that political party loyalty becomes an idol.

    • #48
  19. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    How does faith do when it just becomes intertwined with not being a Democrat?

    St. A, I’m intrigued but don’t understand. Or are you just being playing on Skip’s words?

    You and others have said it yourself here: There are certain faiths it’s hard to practice while also supporting certain kinds of politics.

    True, it’s not good for a faith to be identified with the alternative brand of politics.

    So what do you do if you’re a person of faith in such a situation? Maybe you just have to acknowledge that your faith requires that you not be part of that political party, but carefully refuse to say that it requires you to be a part of the other party.

    I think we are agreeing on the matter, but from different points of view.

    • #49
  20. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    There is a real risk that political party loyalty becomes an idol.

    @skipsul, people forget that we can create all kinds of idols. Politics should be a means to an end, not the end-all or be-all. If we make it into an idol, we are making the mistake of elevating the party far above where it should be. Idols are to worshiped without question, bowed to, sacrificed to. That’s why I get so angry when I hear of politics being spoken by religious leaders in their sacred places. It is like inviting in false gods.

    • #50
  21. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Member
    Shawn Buell (Majestyk)
    @Majestyk

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    What’s less obvious, though, is that many parents and clergy failed to educate their children to respond to these issues. So when a child comes home with a bunch of hostile ideas, the parents and clergy have been poor at teaching counters, or have responded with just telling the kids to shut up. We can blame secularism all we like, but we have to learn to counter it.

    In reality, Christianity has had a 2,000 year head start on modern secularism – more if you want to include the Jewish contributions to Christianity – so, the question in my mind becomes: Why aren’t such answers close at hand?  Were Christian scholars and intellectuals either lazy or stupid?  Did they never contemplate that their ideas might be challenged?  I don’t think that’s the case.

    Those questions were never asked because the presumption of cultural dominance was such that contemplating those questions was lunacy.  Heresy.  Blasphemy.  You couldn’t tug at that string because it was prohibited, both culturally and even in some cases legally.

    Perhaps it’s hard, even for smart defenders of faith to answer these questions because many of the objections are valid.

    It’s tough to argue with some of these assertions because in the end religiosity is not a question of agreement over facts – indeed, no two religions even agree about a very large set of facts.

    It’s more of a question of whether or not you believe in transcendent things.

    • #51
  22. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):
    Those questions were never asked because the presumption of cultural dominance was such that contemplating those questions was lunacy. Heresy. Blasphemy. You couldn’t tug at that string because it was prohibited, both culturally and even in some cases legally.

    That’s rather an oversimplification.  Many of the fundamental questions were asked, answered, and re-asked time and again over the millennia.  Read through philosophical and religious history and you find, time and again, many people wresting with them.  

    But the modern problem is rather different in that now you have added in questions that actually were never asked, and issues that were never raised – the “gender theory” nonsense is very new, as is the broader movement of trans-humanism.  The cult of radical individualism is one expression of that (Ayn Rand was an early proponent of that, and is still quite influential).  Not all go as far as the radicals, but that ethos still permeates our schools at all levels, and to question it is to make oneself a new heretic.

    What has caught both Jews and Christians off guard in that fight is that, while in its way it is nothing new, they were not expecting it to return in this form here and now.

    • #52
  23. Shawn Buell (Majestyk) Member
    Shawn Buell (Majestyk)
    @Majestyk

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    But the modern problem is rather different in that now you have added in questions that actually were never asked, and issues that were never raised – the “gender theory” nonsense is very new, as is the broader movement of trans-humanism. The cult of radical individualism is one expression of that (Ayn Rand was an early proponent of that, and is still quite influential). Not all go as far as the radicals, but that ethos still permeates our schools at all levels, and to question it is to make oneself a new heretic.

    There are all kinds of Overton Windows in the house of society.

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    That’s rather an oversimplification. Many of the fundamental questions were asked, answered, and re-asked time and again over the millennia. Read through philosophical and religious history and you find, time and again, many people wresting with them.

    Baruch Spinoza did a fine job of that in the 17th Century – which earned him expulsion from Judaic society and the title of heretic even though he was Sephardic.

    • #53
  24. ParisParamus Inactive
    ParisParamus
    @ParisParamus

    Great discussion. I have a few thoughts.  First, I think it becomes easier—not easy, just less unfathomable—to reconcile  the Shoah, or any unjust suffering or death if one remembers that no one doesn’t die. 

    Another thought: how many “believers” of any faith at any time are believers out of free will, rather than inertia from childhood, or social pressure?

    Another thought, is I have taken the Prager Route to belief, meaning it’s the distaste I have for the secular world; it’s depravities and emptiness that have made me a believer.

    Another thought. I would probably not be interested in being Jewish without the atypical, traditional-yet-modernity-embracing, outward-looking, non-all-or-nothing, soul-oriented perspective of Chabad.

    Finaly, were I to know nothing, or even less of the history of the Jews; their phenomenal success and influence, I probably wouldn’t be a believer and at least somewhat observant; I don’t think what I see is merely confirmation bias. Educating Jews about history is essential.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • #54
  25. Podkayne of Israel Inactive
    Podkayne of Israel
    @PodkayneofIsrael

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    SkipSul (View Comment):
    There is a real risk that political party loyalty becomes an idol.

    @skipsul, people forget that we can create all kinds of idols. Politics should be a means to an end, not the end-all or be-all. If we make it into an idol, we are making the mistake of elevating the party far above where it should be. Idols are to worshiped without question, bowed to, sacrificed to. That’s why I get so angry when I hear of politics being spoken by religious leaders in their sacred places. It is like inviting in false gods.

    You got that right, Sis! 

    • #55
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    ParisParamus (View Comment):

    @parisparamus, great points so I couldn’t resist addressing them, if only briefly (embedded in italics)

    Great discussion. I have a few thoughts. First, I think it becomes easier—not easy, just less unfathomable—to reconcile the Shoah, or any unjust suffering or death if one remembers that no one doesn’t die.

    Now isn’t that an inconvenient truth. It’s still hard to think of the young people, the children, the future generations who were lost. Yes, I know, you said, “easier.” ;-)

    Another thought: how many “believers” of any faith at any time are believers out of free will, rather than inertia from childhood, or social pressure?

    Also true. But you never know when they’ll come back around. Look at me!

    Another thought, is I have taken the Prager Route to belief, meaning it’s the distaste I have for the secular world; it’s depravities and emptiness that have made me a believer.

    Since I mentioned earlier I don’t support our making up our own religions, I think finding one is a good idea. With those ideas we have trouble accepting, we can explore them.

    Another thought. I would probably not be interested in being Jewish without the atypical, traditional-yet-modernity-embracing, outward-looking, non-all-or-nothing, soul-oriented perspective of Chabad.

    My Torah study partner in Israel (originally from New Jersey) is Chabad and I loved staying with her and her husband for a week. It was such a delight to be with them!

    Finally, were I to know nothing, or even less of the history of the Jews; their phenomenal success and influence, I probably wouldn’t be a believer and at least somewhat observant; I don’t think what I see is merely confirmation bias. Educating Jews about history is essential.

    Agreed!

     

    • #56
  27. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I worry theday will come when we are indifferent enough not to fight back, and will simply assimilate

    But isn’t assimilation SUPPOSED to happen?  If assimilation isn’t expected to happen, then isn’t the entire narrative that conservatives have about the nature of america fundamentally in question?

    • #57
  28. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    SkipSul (View Comment):

    Shawn Buell (Majestyk) (View Comment):
    Those questions were never asked because the presumption of cultural dominance was such that contemplating those questions was lunacy. Heresy. Blasphemy. You couldn’t tug at that string because it was prohibited, both culturally and even in some cases legally.

    That’s rather an oversimplification. Many of the fundamental questions were asked, answered, and re-asked time and again over the millennia. Read through philosophical and religious history and you find, time and again, many people wresting with them.

    But the modern problem is rather different in that now you have added in questions that actually were never asked, and issues that were never raised – the “gender theory” nonsense is very new, as is the broader movement of trans-humanism. The cult of radical individualism is one expression of that (Ayn Rand was an early proponent of that, and is still quite influential). Not all go as far as the radicals, but that ethos still permeates our schools at all levels, and to question it is to make oneself a new heretic.

    What has caught both Jews and Christians off guard in that fight is that, while in its way it is nothing new, they were not expecting it to return in this form here and now.

    I think Ayn Rand works are better read as criticism in the form of Candide, than as expressions of something else.

    • #58
  29. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I worry theday will come when we are indifferent enough not to fight back, and will simply assimilate

    But isn’t assimilation SUPPOSED to happen? If assimilation isn’t expected to happen, then isn’t the entire narrative that conservatives have about the nature of america fundamentally in question?

    It is the level of assimilation that matters, @guruforhire. Even the most religious Jews (and especially the religious Jews) love America, serve in government, respect her values and are proud to be Americans. The women dress modestly and believe in taking care of the family and the home. Hmmm….maybe some would say that’s unAmerican!

    • #59
  30. SkipSul Inactive
    SkipSul
    @skipsul

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    I worry theday will come when we are indifferent enough not to fight back, and will simply assimilate

    But isn’t assimilation SUPPOSED to happen? If assimilation isn’t expected to happen, then isn’t the entire narrative that conservatives have about the nature of america fundamentally in question?

    There are differing levels of assimilation of which people speak.  I’ll lay out some different examples:

    • Liberals at the turn of the 20th century thought of assimilation as all Americans becoming both religiously and culturally homogenized (it’s why they were so often anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish), and this line of thinking often included mostly tossing away one’s cultural heritage too.  This was an extreme notion borne of 19th century concepts of nationalism and jingoism, and neither Right nor Left today support it.
    • Modern Conservatism often speaks of assimilation in terms of speaking English fluently, living law-abiding and productive lives, and having an appreciation for America’s civic and legal history, but without necessarily touching religion or tossing off one’s cultural heritage.  The assimilation they expound is this limited to having a common language and law, and enough respect for America to avoid dragging in the corruption, graft, and authoritarian baggage.
    • Modern Liberalism avoids the use of the term “assimilation” because of their earlier views, but they have a concept of what it means to become an American, and they do think in terms of assimilation, even if they disguise it in other language.  In their case, they are openly hostile to most religious expression (unless it is seen as non-threatening and “charming”), and eschew the notion that anyone should have to speak English at all or give up any cultural heritage except religion.  In other words, they want assimilation in a different sense.

    Neither Right nor Left, though, at this time wants the total assimilation pushed for a century ago.

    • #60
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