The Fight for Equality–from the Right

 

Ken Williams already has two strikes against him. He is a Christian pastor. He was gay at one time and found his way back to a heterosexual life and is now married with four kids. And he has a third strike against him as he fights legislation in California that could prevent counseling gays who want to explore the possibility of living as heterosexuals.

Williams was interviewed on the Daily Signal podcast and told his story of realizing he was homosexual, how he re-discovered his male sexuality with a friendship with a woman, and then fell in love with that woman who became his wife. (A partial copy of the interview is here.) He now counsels people who want to deal with same-sex attraction and works with them in a very loving, compassionate way. In a sense, he has lived their story.

When asked if his work with clients was conversion therapy, he was firm in his belief that it was not, and in fact didn’t know anyone who had gone through it:

What’s so common though is people are confused about their identity or their sexuality. They go and they talk it out with a counselor, and the counselor helps them figure out what they want to go toward and leads them that direction … follows what they’re wanting to pursue and helps them go that direction.

So I know tons of people who have been so helped by things that could be labeled as conversion therapy that were merely a person talking with the counselor and figuring out, ‘Why do I feel the way that I do?’

He also acknowledged the damage that Christianity had done to those who believed they were gay:

For so long and in Christian circles it was, this is the mandate, ‘Gay people are detestable. They’re going to hell. They’re terrible,’ or whatever. And there wasn’t any offering for, ‘OK, wait a minute, God loves you and he wants to help you.’ It was just, ‘You shouldn’t be who you are,’ and that can’t be God first of all. And who wants to behave that way?

So I feel some of what we’re experiencing today is a reaction from a society that was holding expectations of people without helping loving them into what that expectation might be.

I so regret that that happened, but the way to fix it now is for all of us to be loving of people without necessarily agreeing.

A number of thoughts came to me as I listened to Williams. He was candid about his own history, and shared his struggles and his fears about his own sexuality. His compassion and caring for others were apparent. Although I am quite sure that he hoped, at some level, that people he counseled would turn to the sexuality they were born with, he also demonstrated that his primary concern was to be an empathetic listener, to help people explore their history, and to help them heal, however it may occur.

Another thought I have been exploring is the process for a person changing his or her sexual orientation. Some research shows that the brain can influence sexuality, although there is not consensus in the medical community:

The functionalities of regions in the brain like the amygdala and the hypothalamus have been proven to be determined genetically and are influenced by hormones. Developments in these regions kick in even before an individual learns cognitive skills or is exposed to environmental and educational settings. But scientists still do not negate the role of environmental factors.

I’m not a scientist, but I do know from my years of practicing and studying meditation that the brain is altered through regular practice. The number of neural pathways is increased, the pre-frontal lobe thickens (which increases a sense of well-being), and many people have other improvements in health-related areas.

Ken Williams cited the fluidity of sexuality and his marriage of 13 years:

As we’ve gone further through marriage, and I’ve continued to work on my own heart and being part of that men’s purity group, where I feel like I’m constantly getting better as a man and taking more responsibility for my life and just, I don’t know, continuing to grow.

A lot of my friends that I know that share my similar experience, it becomes kind of fluid that way, as far as your understanding of yourself and of your sexual desires, they can shift. Even the APA will tell you that, that there can be a shift in sexual desires. So contrary to popular opinion, they can shift both ways.

Given the fact that the brain actually can change, why couldn’t a person who wanted to be heterosexual develop neural pathways that would be focused on developing heterosexual attitudes? If people who were deeply religious wanted to change, in order to serve G-d more appropriately, and took steps to do so, why shouldn’t they be allowed, even encouraged to change? Again, I want to emphasize that this type of counseling should be voluntary and can’t be forced on a person.

Deeply concerning to me is that we are making alternative lifestyles normal, and even criticizing people who want to follow their gender of birth. Why shouldn’t this type of therapy be encouraged, if they are interested? Why should they be pressured to pursue a gay lifestyle that makes them feel inauthentic and irreligious?

The problem in 2019 is that a bill in California that was tabled in 2018 is being proposed again. It is called the Equality Act and would essentially override the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). These types of laws have been used in other states:

These state laws have been used to shut down Catholic adoption agencies that only place children with a mother (biologically female) and a father (biologically male). They have also been used, famously, to compel people working in the wedding industry, like florists, photographers and bakers, to provide their services for same-sex ceremonies, in violation of their religious conscience and without regard to the availability of such services from vendors who would be happy to provide them.

But the future implications are even worse, if that’s possible. Monica Burke of the Heritage Foundation describes what has already occurred:

The Equality Act would be used to compel speech. Virginia high school teacher Peter Vlaming lost his job for something he did not say. A county school board voted unanimously to fire the veteran teacher over the objections of his students after he refused to comply with administrators’ orders to use masculine pronouns in referring to a female student who identifies as transgender. Vlaming did his best to accommodate the student without violating his religious belief that God created human beings male and female, using the student’s new name and simply refraining from using pronouns altogether.

Unfortunately, the school still considered this a violation of its anti-discrimination policy.

Ken Williams is taking a stand against the Equality Act. Ironically, he is the one fighting for equality, not those who sponsor this bill. Since California is historically in the lead for cultural change, let’s hope they can be stopped.

 

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  1. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    I really don’t think arguing about whether bullying (of whatever kind) remains a problem is very helpful.  By one count there are nearly 133,000 K-12 schools in the United States and as Hannah Arendt famously said “Every generation, civilization is invaded by barbarians – we call them children.”  So while the problem is no doubt taken more seriously in many places than it was 30 years ago, the idea that it has vanished is implausible.  It remains an issue and it remains a reasonable question how well to deal with it.  I’m really sorry if that’s “dancing on your world view’s grave” Kevin, but our world views are always worth questioning and if you’ve convinced yourself that gay kids are no longer bullied, you should consider that.

    • #121
  2. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    I really don’t think arguing about whether bullying (of whatever kind) remains a problem is very helpful. By one count there are nearly 133,000 K-12 schools in the United States and as Hannah Arendt famously said “Every generation, civilization is invaded by barbarians – we call them children.” So while the problem is no doubt taken more seriously in many places than it was 30 years ago, the idea that it has vanished is implausible. It remains an issue and it remains a reasonable question how well to deal with it. I’m really sorry if that’s “dancing on your world view’s grave” Kevin, but our world views are always worth questioning and if you’ve convinced yourself that gay kids are no longer bullied, you should consider that.

    No, I am not convinced that gay students, never get bullied. What I am saying it is not the endemic problem you believe it is.

    You are correct about kids having the capacity for barbarism. I’m saying gay kids are no longer being singled out anymore than any other out person. The fat geek is more likely to be targeted in todays schools. That is all.

    We will have bullies in every generation. They should be sanction by the school and punched in the nose by the bullied.

    • #122
  3. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    My dad was career Airforce. I had a Catholic education until junior high. We moved to Andrews AFB Maryland. I was put in the local Jr High. This was in the thick of integrating the public schools. My school had inner city blacks bussed in.

    Many of them had a grudge to grind against White Boy. Thats what I was called. I was blond skinny and shy. You think I wasn’t bullied ? They made my life hell for the three years I was there.

    I know what it is like to be bullied.

    • #123
  4. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Little Billy and Little Bobby beat up Little Johnny every day at school and call him a faggot.

    Little Johnny is, in fact, gay and terrified about what that’s going to mean for his future. … the fact that there’s violence and name calling going on in the school makes it an issue the school can’t turn a blind eye to …

     … Look, your team has won in the schools. People of faith are the one’s that have difficulty being tolerated, accept for the religion of peace of course.

     …

    The fact that Little Johnny is gay (or Hasidic or handicapped or a nerd or obese) is irrelevant, and the school shouldn’t go into the matter. To do so is to imply that gays are a special class that shouldn’t be bullied, while leaving open the possibility that other classes, not specifically mentioned, may be. If the bullies insist his being gay “justifies their abuse“, the answer is to tell them nothing justifies their abuse, not try to convince them homosexuality is great.

    Of course, in a school system run for the benefit of the kids instead of the teachers, a kid who was being bullied could simply be moved to a different school.

    The idea that you should ignore the cause of the bullying (whatever it is) is silly. (I agree that it doesn’t matter the cause – homosexuality, handicap, yarmulke, whatever) And for what? Because it would be awful if a school imparted the value of not hating the neighbor who is different from you? Was that really what you meant to say? If so, our values are so divergent that there’s probably little hope of productive discussion between us.

    And move the victim? Really? That’s your solution to the bully? Send the victim to a different school? Have you ever met a bully? Are you oblivious to the fact that he’ll find another victim before Little Johnny’s bus gets out of the parking lot? What have you solved with this silly “solution?”

    You win the award for the most disconnected from reality comment on this thread IMHO.

     This is much like the arguments about “hate crimes”.  Should we punish murder, or should murders of “protected” groups be treated more severely? 

     I wonder how Little Johnny feels about being outed as gay by well-meaning authorities (even if he really is).  The school should simply say, “Don’t bully because we will punish you”, not “Don’t bully gays because that violates progressive values”.   In fact, that implies you should bully people who disapprove of  homosexuality; i.e., followers of most major religions. 

     As I explained elsewhere, camps or schools that don’t handle the issue face declining enrollment.   Controlling behavior is more doable than making everybody love one another. 

    • #124
  5. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    I really don’t think arguing about whether bullying (of whatever kind) remains a problem is very helpful. By one count there are nearly 133,000 K-12 schools in the United States and as Hannah Arendt famously said “Every generation, civilization is invaded by barbarians – we call them children.” So while the problem is no doubt taken more seriously in many places than it was 30 years ago, the idea that it has vanished is implausible. It remains an issue and it remains a reasonable question how well to deal with it. I’m really sorry if that’s “dancing on your world view’s grave” Kevin, but our world views are always worth questioning and if you’ve convinced yourself that gay kids are no longer bullied, you should consider that.

    No, I am not convinced that gay students, never get bullied. What I am saying it is not the endemic problem you believe it is.

    You are correct about kids having the capacity for barbarism. I’m saying gay kids are no longer being singled out anymore than any other out person. The fat geek is more likely to be targeted in todays schools. That is all.

    We will have bullies in every generation. They should be sanction by the school and punched in the nose by the bullied.

    I will give you that gay kids are one group among the classes of kids who are bullied, but that has always been the case.  To take some other examples that have been mentioned, it has never been easy to be the fat kid or handicapped either in schools.  I’m sure the same is true for a variety of other kinds of differences and that who gets singled out varies from school situation to school situation.  I’m not even sure what, if anything, we’re arguing about anymore but I take umbrage when your comments give the impression the tables have entirely turned.  Things have changed, and yes there are places where Christian kids now get the short end of the stick.  But that just means none of it is ok, not at that we can go back to ignoring the issues that gay kids sometimes still face.  We’ve veered in this conversation into school bullying but it’s worth remembering that the OP was about a practice that I’d still call conversion therapy for gay kids – in other words, about an issue gay kids face.  It doesn’t take anything away from the suffering of the fat kid to acknowledge that gay kids sometimes don’t get treated right too and gay kids just happen to be the subject of this thread.

    • #125
  6. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Taras (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Little Billy and Little Bobby beat up Little Johnny every day at school and call him a faggot.

    Little Johnny is, in fact, gay and terrified about what that’s going to mean for his future. … the fact that there’s violence and name calling going on in the school makes it an issue the school can’t turn a blind eye to …

    … Look, your team has won in the schools. People of faith are the one’s that have difficulty being tolerated, accept for the religion of peace of course.

    The fact that Little Johnny is gay (or Hasidic or handicapped or a nerd or obese) is irrelevant, and the school shouldn’t go into the matter. To do so is to imply that gays are a special class that shouldn’t be bullied, while leaving open the possibility that other classes, not specifically mentioned, may be. If the bullies insist his being gay “justifies their abuse“, the answer is to tell them nothing justifies their abuse, not try to convince them homosexuality is great.

    Of course, in a school system run for the benefit of the kids instead of the teachers, a kid who was being bullied could simply be moved to a different school.

    The idea that you should ignore the cause of the bullying (whatever it is) is silly. (I agree that it doesn’t matter the cause – homosexuality, handicap, yarmulke, whatever) And for what? Because it would be awful if a school imparted the value of not hating the neighbor who is different from you? Was that really what you meant to say? If so, our values are so divergent that there’s probably little hope of productive discussion between us.

    And move the victim? Really? That’s your solution to the bully? Send the victim to a different school? Have you ever met a bully? Are you oblivious to the fact that he’ll find another victim before Little Johnny’s bus gets out of the parking lot? What have you solved with this silly “solution?”

    You win the award for the most disconnected from reality comment on this thread IMHO.

    This is much like the arguments about “hate crimes”. Should we punish murder, or should murders of “protected” groups be treated more severely?

    I wonder how Little Johnny feels about being outed as gay by well-meaning authorities (even if he really is). The school should simply say, “Don’t bully because we will punish you”, not “Don’t bully gays because that violates progressive values”. In fact, that implies you should bully people who disapprove of homosexuality; i.e., followers of most major religions.

    As I explained elsewhere, camps or schools that don’t handle the issue face declining enrollment. Controlling behavior is more doable than making everybody love one another.

    You are simply ignoring the entire question of prevention.  It is, as they say, worth a pound of cure.  If you think the topic too hot to focus any preventative efforts on anti-gay bullying, and think we should wait instead until the gay kid’s nose is bleeding, then make that case.  But don’t just ignore the issue as though it wasn’t there.

    • #126
  7. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    TBA (View Comment):

    It may be that putting a demonym above being bullied will do more harm than good – the bullies might resent that group even more, and target them for more clever abuse. Also, members of the group might decide that their status entitles them to mistreat their former adversaries – this might not even be particularly malicious (how do you know the bounderies are real unless you test them?).

    I remember ‘smear the queer’ from my youth. I don’t remember the targets ever being gay – just disliked.

    I need to walk back the second comment – I had no idea if they were gay or not (with the exception of me – I wasn’t). 

    So this supports @catorand‘s point regarding fear attaching to a gay pejorative term. 

    • #127
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    A comment I would add is that there will always be bullying. I don’t think Kevin was in any way suggesting that it was a minor issue, if an issue at all.

    Cato Rand (View Comment):
    I’m not even sure what, if anything, we’re arguing about anymore but I take umbrage when your comments give the impression the tables have entirely turned.

    He never said this, nor do I think you could draw this from his comments.. But the tables have been shifted significantly. And I think that is worth noting. It is not the major issue it once was; at the same time, there will always be bullies for all the reasons mentioned. Always.

    Edit: That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to improve.

    • #128
  9. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    I’ve seen bullies. Heck, I’ve been bullied.

    I have never seen a gay bullied. Certainly, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

    The most vile of the bullies I knew would sit with girlfriends making nasty and vile comments to the less-than girls passing by. Weight, acne, makeup, fashion… nothing was off limits to the catty visciousness. 

    I’ve known several gay people in my life, but he is the only one I absolutely hated.

    • #129
  10. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Taras:  The fact that Little Johnny is gay (or Hasidic or handicapped or a nerd or obese) is irrelevant, and the school shouldn’t go into the matter. To do so is to imply that gays are a special class that shouldn’t be bullied, while leaving open the possibility that other classes, not specifically mentioned, may be. If the bullies insist his being gay “justifies their abuse“, the answer is to tell them nothing justifies their abuse, not try to convince them homosexuality is great.

    Of course, in a school system run for the benefit of the kids instead of the teachers, a kid who was being bullied could simply be moved to a different school.

    Cato Rand:  The idea that you should ignore the cause of the bullying (whatever it is) is silly. (I agree that it doesn’t matter the cause – homosexuality, handicap, yarmulke, whatever) And for what? Because it would be awful if a school imparted the value of not hating the neighbor who is different from you? Was that really what you meant to say? If so, our values are so divergent that there’s probably little hope of productive discussion between us.

    And move the victim? Really? That’s your solution to the bully? Send the victim to a different school? Have you ever met a bully? Are you oblivious to the fact that he’ll find another victim before Little Johnny’s bus gets out of the parking lot? What have you solved with this silly “solution?”

    You win the award for the most disconnected from reality comment on this thread IMHO.

    Taras:  This is much like the arguments about “hate crimes”. Should we punish murder, or should murders of “protected” groups be treated more severely?

    I wonder how Little Johnny feels about being outed as gay by well-meaning authorities (even if he really is). The school should simply say, “Don’t bully because we will punish you”, not “Don’t bully gays because that violates progressive values”. In fact, that implies you should bully people who disapprove of homosexuality; i.e., followers of most major religions.

    As I explained elsewhere, camps or schools that don’t handle the issue face declining enrollment. Controlling behavior is more doable than making everybody love one another.

    Cato Rand:  You are simply ignoring the entire question of prevention. It is, as they say, worth a pound of cure. If you think the topic too hot to focus any preventative efforts on anti-gay bullying, and think we should wait instead until the gay kid’s nose is bleeding, then make that case. But don’t just ignore the issue as though it wasn’t there.

    Taras:  But prevent what?  Bullying, or bullying of gays?  

    Their suffering is more important, and they should get special privileges because they are better organized than obese people, nerds, people with pimply faces, sci-fi fans, etc., so they have more political clout?  Or is really about indoctrination?

     

     

    • #130
  11. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand
    • #131
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