The Fight for Equality–from the Right

 

Ken Williams already has two strikes against him. He is a Christian pastor. He was gay at one time and found his way back to a heterosexual life and is now married with four kids. And he has a third strike against him as he fights legislation in California that could prevent counseling gays who want to explore the possibility of living as heterosexuals.

Williams was interviewed on the Daily Signal podcast and told his story of realizing he was homosexual, how he re-discovered his male sexuality with a friendship with a woman, and then fell in love with that woman who became his wife. (A partial copy of the interview is here.) He now counsels people who want to deal with same-sex attraction and works with them in a very loving, compassionate way. In a sense, he has lived their story.

When asked if his work with clients was conversion therapy, he was firm in his belief that it was not, and in fact didn’t know anyone who had gone through it:

What’s so common though is people are confused about their identity or their sexuality. They go and they talk it out with a counselor, and the counselor helps them figure out what they want to go toward and leads them that direction … follows what they’re wanting to pursue and helps them go that direction.

So I know tons of people who have been so helped by things that could be labeled as conversion therapy that were merely a person talking with the counselor and figuring out, ‘Why do I feel the way that I do?’

He also acknowledged the damage that Christianity had done to those who believed they were gay:

For so long and in Christian circles it was, this is the mandate, ‘Gay people are detestable. They’re going to hell. They’re terrible,’ or whatever. And there wasn’t any offering for, ‘OK, wait a minute, God loves you and he wants to help you.’ It was just, ‘You shouldn’t be who you are,’ and that can’t be God first of all. And who wants to behave that way?

So I feel some of what we’re experiencing today is a reaction from a society that was holding expectations of people without helping loving them into what that expectation might be.

I so regret that that happened, but the way to fix it now is for all of us to be loving of people without necessarily agreeing.

A number of thoughts came to me as I listened to Williams. He was candid about his own history, and shared his struggles and his fears about his own sexuality. His compassion and caring for others were apparent. Although I am quite sure that he hoped, at some level, that people he counseled would turn to the sexuality they were born with, he also demonstrated that his primary concern was to be an empathetic listener, to help people explore their history, and to help them heal, however it may occur.

Another thought I have been exploring is the process for a person changing his or her sexual orientation. Some research shows that the brain can influence sexuality, although there is not consensus in the medical community:

The functionalities of regions in the brain like the amygdala and the hypothalamus have been proven to be determined genetically and are influenced by hormones. Developments in these regions kick in even before an individual learns cognitive skills or is exposed to environmental and educational settings. But scientists still do not negate the role of environmental factors.

I’m not a scientist, but I do know from my years of practicing and studying meditation that the brain is altered through regular practice. The number of neural pathways is increased, the pre-frontal lobe thickens (which increases a sense of well-being), and many people have other improvements in health-related areas.

Ken Williams cited the fluidity of sexuality and his marriage of 13 years:

As we’ve gone further through marriage, and I’ve continued to work on my own heart and being part of that men’s purity group, where I feel like I’m constantly getting better as a man and taking more responsibility for my life and just, I don’t know, continuing to grow.

A lot of my friends that I know that share my similar experience, it becomes kind of fluid that way, as far as your understanding of yourself and of your sexual desires, they can shift. Even the APA will tell you that, that there can be a shift in sexual desires. So contrary to popular opinion, they can shift both ways.

Given the fact that the brain actually can change, why couldn’t a person who wanted to be heterosexual develop neural pathways that would be focused on developing heterosexual attitudes? If people who were deeply religious wanted to change, in order to serve G-d more appropriately, and took steps to do so, why shouldn’t they be allowed, even encouraged to change? Again, I want to emphasize that this type of counseling should be voluntary and can’t be forced on a person.

Deeply concerning to me is that we are making alternative lifestyles normal, and even criticizing people who want to follow their gender of birth. Why shouldn’t this type of therapy be encouraged, if they are interested? Why should they be pressured to pursue a gay lifestyle that makes them feel inauthentic and irreligious?

The problem in 2019 is that a bill in California that was tabled in 2018 is being proposed again. It is called the Equality Act and would essentially override the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). These types of laws have been used in other states:

These state laws have been used to shut down Catholic adoption agencies that only place children with a mother (biologically female) and a father (biologically male). They have also been used, famously, to compel people working in the wedding industry, like florists, photographers and bakers, to provide their services for same-sex ceremonies, in violation of their religious conscience and without regard to the availability of such services from vendors who would be happy to provide them.

But the future implications are even worse, if that’s possible. Monica Burke of the Heritage Foundation describes what has already occurred:

The Equality Act would be used to compel speech. Virginia high school teacher Peter Vlaming lost his job for something he did not say. A county school board voted unanimously to fire the veteran teacher over the objections of his students after he refused to comply with administrators’ orders to use masculine pronouns in referring to a female student who identifies as transgender. Vlaming did his best to accommodate the student without violating his religious belief that God created human beings male and female, using the student’s new name and simply refraining from using pronouns altogether.

Unfortunately, the school still considered this a violation of its anti-discrimination policy.

Ken Williams is taking a stand against the Equality Act. Ironically, he is the one fighting for equality, not those who sponsor this bill. Since California is historically in the lead for cultural change, let’s hope they can be stopped.

 

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There are 131 comments.

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  1. James Gawron Thatcher

    Susan,

    A man with homosexuality as part of his life may choose to move away from it. A woman who is in a late term of pregnancy may choose to deliver the baby and give the baby up for adoption. That’s a real choice. What the left is peddling, as always, is an ideological doctrine based on stereotypes. They claim they are progressive by first presenting one set of straw man stereotypes as how it was and then presenting their new set of stereotypes as how it’s going to be. Neither set of stereotypes has anything to do with actual people and neither is interested in allowing people actual choice. Everything the left does ends up as statist tyranny. That’s because the left believes in statist tyranny. Everything else is a con job to make you think that they give a damn about individual people. They don’t.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #1
    • May 12, 2019, at 8:20 AM PDT
    • 13 likes
  2. Stad Thatcher

    Susan Quinn: Deeply concerning to me is that we are making alternative lifestyles normal, and even criticizing people who want to follow their gender of birth. Why shouldn’t this type of therapy be encouraged, if they are interested? Why should they be pressured to pursue a gay lifestyle that makes them feel inauthentic and irreligious?

    Let’s tackle these three sentences.

    Most people accept homosexuality, but do not think of it as normal – because it’s not. In your face homosexual advocacy, gay “pride” parades, mandatory gay appreciation training in public schools does not advance acceptance. If anything, it gives people a reason to hate gays.

    Denying people the chance to see if maybe their gayness isn’t right for them should never be prohibited. After all, the ongoing homosexual advocacy efforts are (IMHO) an attempt to covert straights to gays. That’s why school children are being taught to not only accept the gay lifestyle, but explore it.

    Finally, why should anyone be pressured to pursue a particular lifestyle? This applies to both sides, but more so to the left. They pressure people into accepting what is not normal as desired, and any deviation from what they think is right will be corrected or destroyed. Ken Williams must be silenced . . .

    • #2
    • May 12, 2019, at 8:28 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    verything the left does ends up as statist tyranny. That’s because the left believes in statist tyranny. Everything else is a con job to make you think that they give a damn about individual people. They don’t

    What’s interesting in this particular case is that the promoter of the bill withdrew it last year because evangelicals objected to it, so he hoped he could make it more acceptable. I doubt he will be successful, even if he’s sincere. At least I hope he’s not.

    • #3
    • May 12, 2019, at 8:34 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    Stad (View Comment):
    That’s why school children are being taught to not only accept the gay lifestyle, but explore it.

    They are being pressured to deny their gender because it is the “in” thing to do. These poor kids are hounded to “accept themselves” when they don’t have any idea who they are, at least when they are very young. Thanks, @stad.

    • #4
    • May 12, 2019, at 8:37 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  5. Aaron Miller Member

     Even the APA will tell you that, that there can be a shift in sexual desires.

    That gives the game away, doesn’t it? Only a shift in one direction is accepted because mental health is not the goal.

    • #5
    • May 12, 2019, at 8:38 AM PDT
    • 10 likes
  6. Seawriter Member

    Stad (View Comment):
    Most people accept homosexuality, but do not think of it as normal – because it’s not.

    The irony is people overrate “normal.” I am left-handed. That is not normal. Only 10 percent of the population is left-handed.

    You know what? I am not normal and I really do not care. I am happy being left-handed There are some disadvantages to being left-handed, but I really do not ask for special accommodation because I am left-handed.

    I lived in a small town in Deep East Texas.Everyone knew everyone else. There were several set of gays there – maybe 3 percent. They were tolerated. No one harassed them for being gay. They led quiet lives like most of the folk in the town and what they did in their own homes was viewed as their business.

    Now if they tried seducing young children of their own sex? There would have been trouble. Just like there was trouble when a 30-year-old man started hitting on a 13-year-old girl or when someone started selling drugs out of a house three doors down from mine. (Those issues were settled by neighbors with surprisingly little governmental intervention.)

    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem. It is when rigid conformity is demanded whether conformity to something normal or conformity to something not normal that is the problem. And when you redefine rigid adherence to an idea as “tolerance” and a desire to make up your own mind about ideas as bigoted and intolerant? Yeah. There is a problem.

    • #6
    • May 12, 2019, at 9:54 AM PDT
    • 19 likes
  7. Rodin Member

    Stad (View Comment):
    Most people accept homosexuality, but do not think of it as normal – because it’s not. In your face homosexual advocacy, gay “pride” parades, mandatory gay appreciation training in public schools does not advance acceptance. If anything, it gives people a reason to hate gays.

    I don’t hate gay people, but I do hate “gay politics”. Gay people should be able to live their reality just like anyone else. My own speculation is that for the majority of gay persons, their gayness is immutable or nearly immutable. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be celibate if that is what they need to be to conform to a particular religious belief, any more than a heterosexual can’t be celibate if they are not in a marriage and that is what they need to be to conform to a particular belief. As @seawriter says, “normal” is a statistical phenomena not a moral imperative. And for (as I would posit per my statement above) abnormal gays whose sexual preference is mutable, why shouldn’t they be able to examine and amend it? The hell with “gay politics”!

    Homosexuality is “abnormal” because because the Natural Order promotes reproduction. Non-reproducing heterosexuals are similarly “abnormal” because of the same Natural Order and the statistical prevalence of reproduction among humans. A non-reproducing person is not a bad person because they do not reproduce. But a political campaign against reproduction is a bad thing.

    • #7
    • May 12, 2019, at 11:19 AM PDT
    • 9 likes
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    Rodin (View Comment):
    Homosexuality is “abnormal” because because the Natural Order promotes reproduction. Non-reproducing heterosexuals are similarly “abnormal” because of the same Natural Order and the statistical prevalence of reproduction among humans. A non-reproducing person is not a bad person because they do not reproduce. But a political campaign against reproduction is a bad thing.

    Great point, @rodin. I am abnormal because I could have had children (or tried to) and did not. It would be foolish to say that is some kind of norm. We live in a society that offers us many opportunities to live our lives as we choose, but the key word here is “we”; I don’t need someone else to tell me what my life should be like or how I should live it. Thanks.

    • #8
    • May 12, 2019, at 11:30 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  9. Stad Thatcher

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    The irony is people overrate “normal.” I am left-handed. That is not normal. Only 10 percent of the population is left-handed.

    It all depends on the definition. Being left-handed is not abnormal, but it is normal.

    Homosexuality used to be considered abnormal like a mental defect, and I mostly agree with that diagnosis. However, in order to accept their abnormality as an “alternative lifestyle”, I’ll call it “not normal” and play live and let live. I draw the line when they get in my face, or try to recruit school children under the guise of “teaching tolerance”. A good number of gays are not willing to play live and let live. I often wonder what percentage of homosexuals out there wish gay activists would simply shut the hell up . . .

    • #9
    • May 12, 2019, at 12:06 PM PDT
    • 8 likes
  10. Randy Webster Member

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    • #10
    • May 12, 2019, at 3:07 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Seawriter Member

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    I did not know you were a southpaw.

    • #11
    • May 12, 2019, at 3:38 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  12. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Stad (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    The irony is people overrate “normal.” I am left-handed. That is not normal. Only 10 percent of the population is left-handed.

    It all depends on the definition. Being left-handed is not abnormal, but it is normal.

    Homosexuality used to be considered abnormal like a mental defect, and I mostly agree with that diagnosis. However, in order to accept their abnormality as an “alternative lifestyle”, I’ll call it “not normal” and play live and let live. I draw the line when they get in my face, or try to recruit school children under the guise of “teaching tolerance”. A good number of gays are not willing to play live and let live. I often wonder what percentage of homosexuals out there wish gay activists would simply shut the hell up . . .

    I wonder also. I imagine quite a lot are embarrassed by gay culture as promulgated and practiced. 

    • #12
    • May 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  13. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    I thought it was sinister. 

    • #13
    • May 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  14. Randy Webster Member

    TBA (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    I thought it was sinister.

    You left out gauche.

    • #14
    • May 12, 2019, at 6:32 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  15. Randy Webster Member

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    I did not know you were a southpaw.

    Lol. Arahant and I have been skirmishing about it for years.

    • #15
    • May 12, 2019, at 6:33 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  16. Keith Rice Member

    Your absolutely right about the plasticity of the brain, it’s a matter of repetitive processing. As far as that goes it seems to me that’s it’s as hard to change one’s political views as it is one’s sexuality … it can be done but it takes an effort.

    LGBT and pals have been trying to foist the “born gay” fraud on us and they’re playing it to the max. It’s cynical and harmful.

    • #16
    • May 13, 2019, at 12:30 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  17. Stina Member

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):
    What a life of being “not normal” has shown me is that it is not being “not normal” that is a problem. It is pushing that your form of difference must be deferred to or be acknowledged as superior to a “normal” lifestyle that is the problem.

    Gee, Seawriter, being left handed IS superior.

    I did not know you were a southpaw.

    Lol. Arahant and I have been skirmishing about it for years.

    Dealing with a lefty kid and I’m feeling like challenging this right here.

    I’m not sure she is a natural lefty, but it being a byproduct of dyslexia, though (confusion of left & right is one of those signs – not in what to call them, but actual awareness). She keeps flipping from one to the other, like she can’t remember which hand she used last.

    • #17
    • May 13, 2019, at 5:28 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    Stina (View Comment):
    I’m not sure she is a natural lefty, but it being a byproduct of dyslexia, though (confusion of left & right is one of those signs – not in what to call them, but actual awareness). She keeps flipping from one to the other, like she can’t remember which hand she used last.

    Isn’t ambidextrous a real thing?

    • #18
    • May 13, 2019, at 5:45 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  19. Stina Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    I’m not sure she is a natural lefty, but it being a byproduct of dyslexia, though (confusion of left & right is one of those signs – not in what to call them, but actual awareness). She keeps flipping from one to the other, like she can’t remember which hand she used last.

    Isn’t ambidextrous a real thing?

    It is really rare.

    • #19
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:34 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  20. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Stina (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    I’m not sure she is a natural lefty, but it being a byproduct of dyslexia, though (confusion of left & right is one of those signs – not in what to call them, but actual awareness). She keeps flipping from one to the other, like she can’t remember which hand she used last.

    Isn’t ambidextrous a real thing?

    It is really rare.

    More likely it is a low-grade demon possession similar to the kind that occurs in early teens which manifests as sarcasm and poor taste in clothing. 

    • #20
    • May 13, 2019, at 9:25 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  21. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Rodin (View Comment):

    My own speculation is that for the majority of gay persons, their gayness is immutable or nearly immutable. 

    I did a post on this a couple of months back (here), and the evidence does not support this speculation.

    Rates of change away from self-reported homosexual identification were quite high — about 10-15% per decade for male homosexuals and 45-65% per decade for female homosexuals.

    The other interesting result was from one of the two studies on which I based my analysis (called the “Add Health” study or “Savin-Williams”), which included five categories of sexual orientation — 100% heterosexual, mostly heterosexual, bisexual, mostly homosexual, and 100% homosexual. The authors — quite misleadingly, in my estimation — grouped together the “mostly homosexual” and “100% homosexual” groups for reporting purposes, while not performing the same grouping on the heterosexual side. This allowed the authors to overemphasize the change rate among heterosexuals relative to homosexuals (by including changes from “100% heterosexual” to “mostly heterosexual,” but not including changes from “100% homosexual” to “mostly homosexual”).

    The authors of the Add Health study did report overall percentages of change (not counts) within the 100% homosexual groups, though this data did not specify the category to which the person had moved (thus, it would include an unknown number of changes from “100% homosexual” to “mostly homosexual”).

    The rates of change away from the “100% homosexual” orientation were very high — around 48% per decade for males and 58% per decade for females.

    • #21
    • May 13, 2019, at 3:04 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  22. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Susan Quinn:

    Given the fact that the brain actually can change, why couldn’t a person who wanted to be heterosexual develop neural pathways that would be focused on developing heterosexual attitudes? If people who were deeply religious wanted to change, in order to serve G-d more appropriately, and took steps to do so, why shouldn’t they be allowed, even encouraged to change? Again, I want to emphasize that this type of counseling should be voluntary and can’t be forced on a person.

    I think that the Leftists, including the American Psychological Association, come very close to denying that any change is possible. They essentially dismiss people like Ken Williams as liars. They say that attempting change is stigmatizing and harmful, so it should be prohibited.

    Deeply concerning to me is that we are making alternative lifestyles normal, and even criticizing people who want to follow their gender of birth. Why shouldn’t this type of therapy be encouraged, if they are interested? Why should they be pressured to pursue a gay lifestyle that makes them feel inauthentic and irreligious?

    I agree with you here. I’m pretty sure that the Leftist view is that this makes us evil homophobes who are comparable to Hitler. Seriously, they appear to think this.

    Even more deeply concerning to me is my suspicion about how much of homosexuality actually develops. I suspect that for many, particularly among adolescents and young adults, it is a phase. Perhaps it happens on its own; perhaps it is the result of heterosexual relationship problems. I suspect that many such youngsters would grow out of such a phase, if not encouraged. But under current Leftist culture and policy, they are encouraged to affirm a homosexual identity; encouraged to make it the core of their self-identity; taught to hate and vilify anyone who disagrees; and given victim status and special rights on account of their sexual orientation.

    I strongly suspect that we are going to see a significant increase in the incidence of homosexuality as a result of this ideology. One data point that I heard from Heather Heying (Bret Weinstein’s wife and fellow professor-in-exile) is that 40% of students at Evergreen State College self-identified as LGBT.

    • #22
    • May 13, 2019, at 3:14 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  23. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Susan Quinn:

    He also acknowledged the damage that Christianity had done to those who believed they were gay:

    For so long and in Christian circles it was, this is the mandate, ‘Gay people are detestable. They’re going to hell. They’re terrible,’ or whatever. And there wasn’t any offering for, ‘OK, wait a minute, God loves you and he wants to help you.’ It was just, ‘You shouldn’t be who you are,’ and that can’t be God first of all. And who wants to behave that way?

    So I feel some of what we’re experiencing today is a reaction from a society that was holding expectations of people without helping loving them into what that expectation might be.

    I so regret that that happened, but the way to fix it now is for all of us to be loving of people without necessarily agreeing.

    I wonder if it is true that this was the general attitude in Christian circles.

    My personal experience with Christian churches is limited — a year of Catholicism in high school, and 15 years as an Evangelical Protestant believer, during which I regularly attended 3 churches, and visited perhaps 4-5 others. Some of the Evangelical churches were very, very conservative. I’ve never encountered the attitude described in the quote from Pastor Williams. It was always “hate the sin/love the sinner.”

    I don’t deny that some Christians take the view mentioned, and perhaps this was more prevalent 50-60 years ago. It looks like an inaccurate stereotype, to me. 

    • #23
    • May 13, 2019, at 3:32 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I don’t deny that some Christians take the view mentioned, and perhaps this was more prevalent 50-60 years ago. It looks like an inaccurate stereotype, to me. 

    It’s also possible that is how the reactions of the Christians involved were interpreted. It might be hard for people to understand the difference between hating the sin and loving the sinner. After all, hate and sinner are both trigger words, and in this case, they’re both in the same sentence. Just saying that’s a possibility.

    • #24
    • May 13, 2019, at 4:16 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  25. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I don’t deny that some Christians take the view mentioned, and perhaps this was more prevalent 50-60 years ago. It looks like an inaccurate stereotype, to me.

    It’s also possible that is how the reactions of the Christians involved were interpreted. It might be hard for people to understand the difference between hating the sin and loving the sinner. After all, hate and sinner are both trigger words, and in this case, they’re both in the same sentence. Just saying that’s a possibility.

    I have several thoughts on Christians and homosexuality. 

    Firstly, there are a lot of very small towns with very small churches and some have very small-minded pastors. So there is a non-zero number of people who might cast out homosexuals from their families. 

    Secondly, if your kid is having sex in your home and you tell him or her to stop and he or she does not, kicking the kid out of the house is perfectly reasonable. 

    If it was regular sex, the parent is a hopeless prude; if it was gay sex, the parent is a hateful bigot. 

    Regardless, I suspect that by the time a gay teen gets to San Francisco or some other mecca, they don’t want to be the only one there whose parents were so boring as to have been reasonable and somewhat accepting of their gayness. 

    • #25
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:12 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn:

    Given the fact that the brain actually can change, why couldn’t a person who wanted to be heterosexual develop neural pathways that would be focused on developing heterosexual attitudes? If people who were deeply religious wanted to change, in order to serve G-d more appropriately, and took steps to do so, why shouldn’t they be allowed, even encouraged to change? Again, I want to emphasize that this type of counseling should be voluntary and can’t be forced on a person.

    I think that the Leftists, including the American Psychological Association, come very close to denying that any change is possible. They essentially dismiss people like Ken Williams as liars. They say that attempting change is stigmatizing and harmful, so it should be prohibited.

    Deeply concerning to me is that we are making alternative lifestyles normal, and even criticizing people who want to follow their gender of birth. Why shouldn’t this type of therapy be encouraged, if they are interested? Why should they be pressured to pursue a gay lifestyle that makes them feel inauthentic and irreligious?

    I agree with you here. I’m pretty sure that the Leftist view is that this makes us evil homophobes who are comparable to Hitler. Seriously, they appear to think this.

    Even more deeply concerning to me is my suspicion about how much of homosexuality actually develops. I suspect that for many, particularly among adolescents and young adults, it is a phase. Perhaps it happens on its own; perhaps it is the result of heterosexual relationship problems. I suspect that many such youngsters would grow out of such a phase, if not encouraged. But under current Leftist culture and policy, they are encouraged to affirm a homosexual identity; encouraged to make it the core of their self-identity; taught to hate and vilify anyone who disagrees; and given victim status and special rights on account of their sexual orientation.

    I strongly suspect that we are going to see a significant increase in the incidence of homosexuality as a result of this ideology. One data point that I heard from Heather Heying (Bret Weinstein’s wife and fellow professor-in-exile) is that 40% of students at Evergreen State College self-identified as LGBT.

    Must be something in the water/Kool-Aid™. 

    • #26
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:14 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    TBA (View Comment):
    I think that the Leftists, including the American Psychological Association, come very close to denying that any change is possible. They essentially dismiss people like Ken Williams as liars. They say that attempting change is stigmatizing and harmful, so it should be prohibited.

    From what I’ve heard, the research is mixed in this area, although there is a continual effort to squelch information or demonize those who present it by the Left. It’s too bad that, as usual, no one is interested in the the greatest amount of data we can collect. People’s lives are at stake; clearly agendas are more important. Thanks, @robtgilsdorf.

    • #27
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:19 PM PDT
    • Like
  28. TBA Coolidge
    TBA

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    I think that the Leftists, including the American Psychological Association, come very close to denying that any change is possible. They essentially dismiss people like Ken Williams as liars. They say that attempting change is stigmatizing and harmful, so it should be prohibited.

    From what I’ve heard, the research is mixed in this area, although there is a continual effort to squelch information or demonize those who present it by the Left. It’s too bad that, as usual, no one is interested in the the greatest amount of data we can collect. People’s lives are at stake; clearly agendas are more important. Thanks, @robtgilsdorf.

    I think you may have mis-snipped as the more thoughtful reply above belongs to @arizonapatriot.

    Edit: de-typoed.

    • #28
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:21 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  29. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn Post author

    TBA (View Comment):
    I think you may have mis-snlipped as the more thoughtful reply above belongs to @arizonapatriot.

    Oops. Sorry. ;-)

    • #29
    • May 13, 2019, at 6:23 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  30. Taras Coolidge

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):
    Homosexuality is “abnormal” because because the Natural Order promotes reproduction. Non-reproducing heterosexuals are similarly “abnormal” because of the same Natural Order and the statistical prevalence of reproduction among humans. A non-reproducing person is not a bad person because they do not reproduce. But a political campaign against reproduction is a bad thing.

    Great point, @rodin. I am abnormal because I could have had children (or tried to) and did not. It would be foolish to say that is some kind of norm. We live in a society that offers us many opportunities to live our lives as we choose, but the key word here is “we”; I don’t need someone else to tell me what my life should be like or how I should live it. Thanks.

    Nature, that is, natural selection, has more tricks up its sleeve than are dreamt of in our philosophies. Given that male homosexuality is partly hereditary — if one identical twin is gay, so is the other 50% of the time — biologists wondered why the genes (alleles) involved weren’t being eliminated from the human gene pool, as gays are less likely to father children.

    Then somebody noticed that the sisters of gay men tend to have more children than average.

    In evolutionary theory, this is called “sexually antagonistic selection”. The same genes which inhibit reproduction in one sex can promote it in the other, maintaining or even increasing the frequency of the genes in the population. 

    Does that make male homosexuality normal or abnormal? I’m not sure the question is meaningful. 

    • #30
    • May 13, 2019, at 7:28 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
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