A Friendly Battle of Men and Women

 

In which your itinerate correspondent stubbles onto the stage, and writes about ballet! Dance aficionados, perhaps even former corps de ballet members, are invited to pas de deux in the comments or stage a solo in reply on one of the several open days this month. Through the opening days of this month’s theme, “Men and Women,” it has variously been asserted that the relationship between the sexes is one of supremacy, of (zero-sum?) competition, or of complementarity. What follows is an illustration, perhaps an argument, of complementarity in a positive-sum competition.

On point, en pointe:

The Royal Opera House’s “Ballet Evolved” video series, illustrates on stage the evolution of ballet over the past four centuries. In the 1830s, a ballerina created an innovation in female dancers’ footwork. While the en pointe technique innovation drove a change in ballerina’s footwear, enabling more extreme development of the technique, men did not see a similarly radical change in technique.

Men and women stayed close to the ground. Under those artistic and athletic limitations, naturally women dancing en point would create a more visually dramatic presence on stage. Then a Russian dancer in his early 20s defected, and brought with him an artistic and athletic presence that reset expectations. The Nureyev Foundation tells of the relationship between Rudolf Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn this way:

[Nureyev and Fonteyn] danced with many other partners who almost always looked better in consequence, but they were most proud of what they achieved together. He at 23 gave her at 42 a new burst of energy and understanding; she inspired him and helped him settle down.

Each learned a lot from the other and danced at their very best together. He greatly wanted to dance with her in Leningrad and show what they achieved (unfortunately by the time he was allowed to dance there she had retired and he was far past his best). His explanation of their extraordinary success was “It’s not her, it’s not me, it’s the sameness of the goal”.

People were so eager to see them together that their agent charged far more for them as a pair than the sum of their already high individual fees. They remained lifelong close friends too.

An Evening with the Royal Ballet, Rudolf Nureyev, Margot Fonteyn, 1963: the pas de deux from “Le Corsaire:”

While Nureyev and then Baryshnikov became superstars, ballerinas were also increasing their athleticism within the physical limits of dancing en pointe. So, now we had two lines of technical development, within one unifying ballet language, a set of positions and moves. Men and women, working together on the stage, have achieved something greater than the sum of their separate efforts and talents.

Just in case someone wants to roll out “men could dance en pointe better than women, if they wanted,” just stop. The laws of physics are against you: E=MC2. Ask Shaquille O’Neal or LeBron James:

[A]pparently jacked up feet is the consequence of a lifetime of playing professional basketball. Once can only assume it has something to do with tight shoes and constant, hard changes of direction in said tight shoes.

We got yet another vision of what basketball shoes can do to feet on Thursday when TNT analyst Shaquille O’Neal showed off his, er, little piggies.

Much to the horror of the Internet in general, it was Shaq’s right big toe that took social media by storm. Mostly because it’s not even close to pointing in the right direction.

Now imagine an athletic man spending hours a day on a hardwood surface, repeatedly jumping and spinning in the air, then landing straight onto the ends of his toes. Every move would be conveying more energy, down the length of his feet, than his female counterparts. Even if it happened to look good, or interesting, it would still make for a very short ballet career.

Men and women appear to both compete with and complement each other in ballet. It is for someone else to write, but is it not likely the same for opera? What about other dance forms?

https://youtu.be/1CUdTS64RGI

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  1. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    I’ve cranked out a short bit on ballet this Sunday evening. Y’all know what I did in the “Elimination” round. If someone doesn’t fill a few more days, I’m going to have to go to the bãno posts. That would be less than charming, perhaps un-bearable.


    This conversation is part of our Group Writing Series under the April 2019 Group Writing Theme: Men and Women. There are plenty of dates still available. Tell us about your favorite couple, witty or tragic observations between the sexes, or perhaps the battles and truces. Or do something entirely different. Maybe a musical or dance post! Our schedule and sign-up sheet awaits.

    May’s theme will be blossom midway through April’s showers.

    • #1
  2. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    What a charming, beautiful clip from The King and I. Just wonderful. 

    Thank you. :-)

    • #2
  3. She Member
    She
    @She

    Clifford A. Brown:

    In which your itinerant correspondent stumbles onto the stage and writes about ballet!

    Very surprisingly, thoroughly competently, and utterly delightfully.  What an “unexpected gift.” Wonderful post. Thanks.

    P.S.  Ballerinas’ toes get pretty messed up, too.

    • #3
  4. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    She (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown:

    In which your itinerant correspondent stumbles onto the stage and writes about ballet!

    Very surprisingly, thoroughly competently, and utterly delightfully. What an “unexpected gift.” Wonderful post. Thanks.

    P.S. Ballerinas’ toes get pretty messed up, too.

    Ditto on the surprise, the delight, and the unexpected. I gotta say, CAB, there’s not a whole lot in your background that would have tipped us off you could write about this particular subject but damn, you really can. Thanks a lot, it gave me a lot to think about!

    • #4
  5. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    She (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown:

    In which your itinerant correspondent stumbles onto the stage and writes about ballet!

    Very surprisingly, thoroughly competently, and utterly delightfully. What an “unexpected gift.” Wonderful post. Thanks.

    P.S. Ballerinas’ toes get pretty messed up, too.

    The remark I recall about ballerinas was “lifetime podiatry patients.”

    • #5
  6. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    Love it, love it, love it! Thanks!

    • #6
  7. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    My daughter is a dancer and is in her junior year in a University commercial dance program. While her forte is in contemporary dance, she believes ballet is the best technical training and takes ballet classes whenever she can on top of her regular classes.

    Over the years I’ve seen a heluva lot of dance for a 65 year-old straight guy who can barely touch his toes. I even took classes in dance and pantomime at a European movement theatre school in 1980.

    The level of discipline dancers must have is beyond comprehension for most people. I’m continually amazed, and I only could know this having witnessed a family member for the last 15 years spend hours and hours conditioning, studying, rehearsing, performing and watching diet and maintaining an exercise regimen. As a 20 year-old in college, she rarely goes out to party or drink, even though that’s what most of her associates are doing.

    It rivals professional athletics but requires artistry and a panoply of detailed mastery of physical expression that goes far beyond any sport or game mastery.

    The business of dance is brutal and requires a near abdication of one’s ego, since rejection is 95% of a dancer’s experience at every level. And there’s not much upside, unlike acting and music whereby (eventually) getting famous brings fabulous wealth, even ‘famous’ dancers can’t aspire to those levels of reward.

    Teamwork is another aspect of dance that is challenging. 

    To the point of this post. Dance is an art-form that is very much an exploration of men and women in the physical world. Actually it’s a celebration of men and women together. 

    For anyone interested, dance aficionados, there’s a new series on Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon’s life (and rocky romance) premiering on FX channel this Tuesday. It’s 8 episodes and I bet it will be great from what I know of it, some real heavyweights are involved  ( the daughter auditioned in NY for the role of their daughter- didn’t get it.)

    But – small world – is dancing for the premier party ( I think – these things are so secret) at an exclusive LA club tonight.

    @cliffordbrown posting a video in HW of the dress rehearsal 

    • #7
  8. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown:

    In which your itinerant correspondent stumbles onto the stage and writes about ballet!

    Very surprisingly, thoroughly competently, and utterly delightfully. What an “unexpected gift.” Wonderful post. Thanks.

    P.S. Ballerinas’ toes get pretty messed up, too.

    Ditto on the surprise, the delight, and the unexpected. I gotta say, CAB, there’s not a whole lot in your background that would have tipped us off you could write about this particular subject but damn, you really can. Thanks a lot, it gave me a lot to think about!

    In this, I am my mother’s son. Grew up in the ’70s with the New Yorker ballet reviews. Saw Nureyev dance a solo recital in Chicago in 1981 or 1982, I believe. Found the seats were too close to the stage, cutting off view of his feet. Even by that age, it seemed he spent most of the performance in the air, so not a big problem.

    • #8
  9. She Member
    She
    @She

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What a charming, beautiful clip from The King and I. Just wonderful.

    Thank you. :-)

    It is charming.  I like Kelli O’Hara very much.  She was in a revival of South Pacific some years ago which was run Live from Lincoln Center one night on PBS.  It was delightful.  I don’t think it’s on DVD, otherwise I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

    Several decades ago (I think it was in 1981), The King and I came to Pittsburgh and my stepdaughter and I went to see it.  I don’t remember who was in the role of Anna, but Yul Brynner himself was the King.  He didn’t seem to have aged an iota since the movie, 25 years previously.  One of the very few iconic performances of anything that I’ve seen in my life.  It was great fun.

     

    • #9
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    How wonderful! Seeing Nuryev and Fonteyn and then the King and I, I feel as if I’m floating on air. Such a treat! Thank you, Clifford.

    • #10
  11. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Franco (View Comment):

    My daughter is a dancer and is in her junior year in a University commercial dance program. While her forte is in contemporary dance, she believes ballet is the best technical training and takes ballet classes whenever she can on top of her regular classes.

    Over the years I’ve seen a heluva lot of dance for a 65 year-old straight guy who can barely touch his toes. I even took classes in dance and pantomime at a European movement theatre school in 1980.

    The level of discipline dancers must have is beyond comprehension for most people. I’m continually amazed, and I only could know this having witnessed a family member for the last 15 years spend hours and hours conditioning, studying, rehearsing, performing and watching diet and maintaining an exercise regimen. As a 20 year-old in college, she rarely goes out to party or drink, even though that’s what most of her associates are doing.

    It rivals professional athletics but requires artistry and a panoply of detailed mastery of physical expression that goes far beyond any sport or game mastery.

    The business of dance is brutal and requires a near abdication of one’s ego, since rejection is 95% of a dancer’s experience at every level. And there’s not much upside, unlike acting and music whereby (eventually) getting famous brings fabulous wealth, even ‘famous’ dancers can’t aspire to those levels of reward.

    Teamwork is another aspect of dance that is challenging.

    To the point of this post. Dance is an art-form that is very much an exploration of men and women in the physical world. Actually it’s a celebration of men and women together.

    For anyone interested, dance aficionados, there’s a new series on Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon’s life (and rocky romance) premiering on FX channel this Tuesday. It’s 8 episodes and I bet it will be great from what I know of it, some real heavyweights are involved ( the daughter auditioned in NY for the role of their daughter- didn’t get it.)

    But – small world – is dancing for the premier party ( I think – these things are so secret) at an exclusive LA club tonight.

    @cliffordbrown posting a video in HW of the dress rehearsal

    I look forward to the video and agree with all.

    • #11
  12. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    She (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What a charming, beautiful clip from The King and I. Just wonderful.

    Thank you. :-)

    It is charming. I like Kelli O’Hara very much. She was in a revival of South Pacific some years ago which was run Live from Lincoln Center one night on PBS. It was delightful. I don’t think it’s on DVD, otherwise I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

    Several decades ago (I think it was in 1981), The King and I came to Pittsburgh and my stepdaughter and I went to see it. I don’t remember who was in the role of Anna, but Yul Brynner himself was the King. He didn’t seem to have aged an iota since the movie, 25 years previously. One of the very few iconic performances of anything that I’ve seen in my life. It was great fun.

     

    I watched the film King and I, about a year ago. I was not prepared for how amazing and spectacular it was in every way. Really great and an absolute delight!

    • #12
  13. OldDanRhody Member
    OldDanRhody
    @OldDanRhody

    Clifford A. Brown: A]pparently jacked up feet is the consequence of a lifetime of playing professional basketball. Once can only assume it has something to do with tight shoes and constant, hard changes of direction in said tight shoes.

    Sometime in the ’80s, I recall reading a ballerina’s impressions upon seeing a NBA game.  She said something like, “We dancers spend most of our time with our legs straight.  Basketball players spend most of their time with their legs bent.”  I remember she was especially impressed with Wes Unseld, who didn’t seem to look like a dancer to me.

    • #13
  14. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Franco (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What a charming, beautiful clip from The King and I. Just wonderful.

    Thank you. :-)

    It is charming. I like Kelli O’Hara very much. She was in a revival of South Pacific some years ago which was run Live from Lincoln Center one night on PBS. It was delightful. I don’t think it’s on DVD, otherwise I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

    Several decades ago (I think it was in 1981), The King and I came to Pittsburgh and my stepdaughter and I went to see it. I don’t remember who was in the role of Anna, but Yul Brynner himself was the King. He didn’t seem to have aged an iota since the movie, 25 years previously. One of the very few iconic performances of anything that I’ve seen in my life. It was great fun.

    I watched the film King and I, about a year ago. I was not prepared for how amazing and spectacular it was in every way. Really great and an absolute delight!

    I’ve always loved The King and I. I love all of the great musicals, but The King and I especially. So at two o’clock in the morning last night, I made the mistake of clicking on that link and spent an another hour watching YouTube clips looking for more King and I music and dance clips. :-) I found this wonderful promotional clip (you can buy the whole thing for a pittance) for an in-studio 1993 production of just the music with Julie Andrews, Marilyn Horne, and Lea Salonga. The king is Ben Kingsley.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8LqY0CG04I

    • #14
  15. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I’ve always loved the King and I. I love all of the great musicals, but the King and I especially. So at two o’clock in the morning last night, I made the mistake of clicking on that link and spent an another hour watching YouTube clips looking for more King and I music and dance clips. :-) I found this wonderful promotional clip (you can buy the whole thing for a pittance) for an in-studio 1993 production of just the music with Julie Andrews, Marilyn Horne, and Lea Salonga. The king is Ben Kingsley.

    I love it, too, @marcin. But the Thais don’t. They feel their King was treated as a primitive and that the portrayal is insulting! The King Chulalongkorn was actually quite modern and rubbed shoulders with nobles in other countries.

    I still love the movie!

    • #15
  16. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I’ve always loved the King and I. I love all of the great musicals, but the King and I especially. So at two o’clock in the morning last night, I made the mistake of clicking on that link and spent an another hour watching YouTube clips looking for more King and I music and dance clips. :-) I found this wonderful promotional clip (you can buy the whole thing for a pittance) for an in-studio 1993 production of just the music with Julie Andrews, Marilyn Horne, and Lea Salonga. The king is Ben Kingsley.

    I love it, too. But the Thais don’t. They feel their King was treated as a primitive and that the portrayal is insulting! The King Chulalongkorn was actually quite modern and rubbed shoulders with nobles in other countries.

    I still love the movie!

    I’m sure that’s true. It seems that whenever person A describes person B, person B doesn’t ever think person A got it right. :-) I think that is a universal truth. :-) 

    • #16
  17. She Member
    She
    @She

    Franco (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What a charming, beautiful clip from The King and I. Just wonderful.

    Thank you. :-)

    It is charming. I like Kelli O’Hara very much. She was in a revival of South Pacific some years ago which was run Live from Lincoln Center one night on PBS. It was delightful. I don’t think it’s on DVD, otherwise I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

    Several decades ago (I think it was in 1981), The King and I came to Pittsburgh and my stepdaughter and I went to see it. I don’t remember who was in the role of Anna, but Yul Brynner himself was the King. He didn’t seem to have aged an iota since the movie, 25 years previously. One of the very few iconic performances of anything that I’ve seen in my life. It was great fun.

     

    I watched the film King and I, about a year ago. I was not prepared for how amazing and spectacular it was in every way. Really great and an absolute delight!

    You are probably not as infatuated with the lavender ball gown as I was in my teens . . . 

    • #17
  18. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    Juliana (View Comment):

    Love it, love it, love it! Thanks!

    me too.

    • #18
  19. She Member
    She
    @She

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I’ve always loved the King and I. I love all of the great musicals, but the King and I especially. So at two o’clock in the morning last night, I made the mistake of clicking on that link and spent an another hour watching YouTube clips looking for more King and I music and dance clips. :-) I found this wonderful promotional clip (you can buy the whole thing for a pittance) for an in-studio 1993 production of just the music with Julie Andrews, Marilyn Horne, and Lea Salonga. The king is Ben Kingsley.

    I love it, too. But the Thais don’t. They feel their King was treated as a primitive and that the portrayal is insulting! The King Chulalongkorn was actually quite modern and rubbed shoulders with nobles in other countries.

    I still love the movie!

    I’m sure that’s true. It seems that whenever person A describes person B, person B doesn’t ever think person A got it right. :-) I think that is a universal truth. :-)

    Yes, I understand it is banned in Thailand.  First thing (almost the first thing) people tell you when you go there is not to say anything negative about the king or any member of the royal family.  There are photos and banners of the king all over the place.   I thing Chulalongkorn was the son, Mongkut was the King.  He really did try to send Lincoln the elephants . . .

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/66077/lincoln-administration-turned-down-chance-populate-united-states-elephants

    • #19
  20. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    She (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I’ve always loved the King and I. I love all of the great musicals, but the King and I especially. So at two o’clock in the morning last night, I made the mistake of clicking on that link and spent an another hour watching YouTube clips looking for more King and I music and dance clips. :-) I found this wonderful promotional clip (you can buy the whole thing for a pittance) for an in-studio 1993 production of just the music with Julie Andrews, Marilyn Horne, and Lea Salonga. The king is Ben Kingsley.

    I love it, too. But the Thais don’t. They feel their King was treated as a primitive and that the portrayal is insulting! The King Chulalongkorn was actually quite modern and rubbed shoulders with nobles in other countries.

    I still love the movie!

    I’m sure that’s true. It seems that whenever person A describes person B, person B doesn’t ever think person A got it right. :-) I think that is a universal truth. :-)

    Yes, I understand it is banned in Thailand. First thing (almost the firsts thing) people tell you when you go there is not to say antyting negative about the king or any member of the royal family. There are photos and banners of the king all over the place. I thing Chulalongkorn was the son, Mongkut was the King. He really did try to send Lincoln the elephants . . .

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/66077/lincoln-administration-turned-down-chance-populate-united-states-elephants

     

    Oops–thanks for the correction. Of course, the King they were so fond of has passed away. I think they’re withholding judgment about his son. But I’m sure the same rules apply. I  believe you can technically be arrested for badmouthing the King.

    • #20
  21. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    The portrayal of him in The King and I, based on Anna and the King of Siam, was a Brit’s view of him. I’m sure he did seem very modern to the Siamese people of the 19th century, but maybe not so much to an Englishwoman, who was especially horrified that he had all those wives. Not exactly “modern” by Western standards.

    • #21
  22. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    I saw Dame Margot Fonteyn dance in the 1970s when she was probably in her 50s. They gave her much less athletic choreography, but still a graceful and beautiful dancer. I’m happy I got to see her.

    • #22
  23. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    I saw Dame Margot Fonteyn dance in the 1970s when she was probably in her 50s. They gave her much less athletic choreography, but still a graceful and beautiful dancer. I’m happy I got to see her.

    That would give a person a lifetime of happiness. What a thrill to see her dance. I truly envy you. :-)

    • #23
  24. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Gorgeous!  Thanks for those clips.

    You mentioned opera.  Verdi wrote some very beautiful male/female duets.  One of my favorites:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvn5O7QsY5Q

     

    • #24
  25. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    The conductor of the kids’ youth orchestra I helped out with had been the conductor of the orchestra for the Gilbert & Sullivan Players group at MIT. He told us once that many people think that opera is the most difficult assignment for conductors, but he said that dance unquestionably takes that top spot. He said there is way more going on for a conductor of a ballet orchestra than an opera. Isn’t that interesting?

    • #25
  26. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Gorgeous! Thanks for those clips.

    You mentioned opera. Verdi wrote some very beautiful male/female duets. One of my favorites:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvn5O7QsY5Q

    You had to do that, didn’t you. Send us off to the great duets. :-) 

    YouTube is a curse in my computer. :-)

    • #26
  27. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    This is just breathtaking. It’s Bernstein conducting an in-studio performance of “One Hand, One Heart” with Carreras and Te Kanawa. 

    • #27
  28. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Here, Marci, this one‘s just for you.  I don’t love the modern dress, but Violetta looks very much the part.

    • #28
  29. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    And this is an incredibly beautiful piece that I found on YouTube one other time when I was supposed to be working, much like today, :-).  It is Pavarotti and Fiamma Izzo d’ Amico singing “My Name Is Mimi.” 

    • #29
  30. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Here, Marci, this one‘s just for you. I don’t love the modern dress, but Violetta looks very much the part.

    Wonderful! Did you notice the size of the prop bottle of wine? :-)

    You’ve given me a great idea. I think I will send my daughter Carrie enough money for her birthday to see a performance at the Met. :-) She’s living in Manhattan this year and two more years after that. She would love to go. :-)

    • #30
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