Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Men and Women: The Purgatory of Marriage

 

“Marriage is neither heaven nor hell, it is simply purgatory.” — Abraham Lincoln

I don’t think President Lincoln made this comment about marriage in jest; his own marriage was challenging, to say the least. His wife, Mary, had exorbitant spending habits, extreme moodiness, and went into deep depression on the loss of her children. In some ways, Lincoln was no prize husband, either. He was also moody, moving from playful moments with his children to periods where he was distant and withdrawn.

I think, though, there is a deep wisdom to his statement about marriage and purgatory. I was amused by this definition of purgatory:

Purgatory is the place where the soul is cleansed of all impurities, as Dante described in his great poem The Divine Comedy. Today purgatory can refer to any place or situation in which suffering and misery are felt to be sharp but temporary. Waiting to hear the results of a test, or whether you got a good job, can be a purgatory. And an endless after-dinner speech can make an entire roomful of people feel as if they’re in purgatory.

Many people go into a marriage expecting that they will live happily ever after; in fact, the experience of marriage depends primarily on the compatibility, devotion, love, and commitment by both people, as well as many other factors. Those who believe that married life entitles them to an ideal existence are doomed for disappointment.

To me, the purgatory of marriage suggests that at different times, life will seem uncertain and chaotic. When those times arise, it’s critically important that people are willing to be compassionate, supportive and understanding. Too often, people see changes in a marriage as inconvenient or unfair. They planned on their ideal relationship and the other person (of course) is to blame for making it less than perfect. Those tensions can create a kind of purgatory, where neither person cares deeply about the other, or they are focused primarily on their own likes, preferences, and goals. A spouse can become an inconvenience, a roadblock to the man or woman getting what he or she wants. The purgatory environment simmers, unacknowledged and resented. This is the place where people insulate themselves from problems, from children, from a spouse, even from life.

To escape a purgatory of marriage takes dedication, honesty, communication, hard work and preferably love. When problems arise, instead of fault-finding or attacking each other, a married couple needs to find a way to get past their anger, confess their feelings of discomfort and vulnerability, and try to work through the situation. Instead of going to their respective “corners,” they need to stay engaged, in spite of the pain and helplessness they may be experiencing. They may choose to approach the subject multiple times, making certain that they are looking not just at the obvious issues, but those hidden in the darkest corners. They need to partner their way through the issues, not as adversaries but as friends and lovers. They need to see the situation with tolerance, listening to the frustration of each other but also finding moments to reassure each other that they will find their way through.

Remember: on the other side of purgatory one can find heaven: that place, with all its ups and downs, is where we can celebrate our lives, together.

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  1. Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. Coolidge

    The tricky thing about marriage is that most people getting married are far too young to comprehend what they’re committing to. How can you understand what “forever” means when you’re only a few years into your adult life?

    But I think one of the biggest mistakes a newlywed can make is to assume that marriage will just fit into your existing life somehow. That marriage will enable you to continue being the same person, with “married” just being another box checked off. It doesn’t work that way.

    Committing to a marriage means accepting that you will become a different person. You will be shaped by the marriage; it (and your spouse) will become part of you. It means that years down the road, it will no longer be a question of wanting to be together; it’s rather the simple fact that you can’t comprehend not being together, because it’s who you are. You are agreeing to be incomplete by yourself.

    That’s if you do it right, and you mean what you say. If you insist on remaining separate and independent, but somehow still married, I think that is at best a recipe for unhappiness, and more likely a recipe for a short marriage.

    • #1
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:31 AM PDT
    • 18 likes
  2. Percival Thatcher
    PercivalJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Susan Quinn: I don’t think President Lincoln made this comment about marriage in jest; his own marriage was challenging, to say the least. His wife, Mary, had exorbitant spending habits, extreme moodiness …

    I read somewhere that she chased him out of the house once. With a knife.

     

    • #2
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:34 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):
    Committing to a marriage means accepting that you will become a different person. You will be shaped by the marriage; it (and your spouse) will become part of you. It means that years down the road, it will no longer be a question of wanting to be together; it’s rather the simple fact that you can’t comprehend not being together, because it’s who you are. You are agreeing to be incomplete by yourself.

    Profound statements, @bartholomewxerxesogilviejr. So very true. If we are truly committed to a marriage, we must be prepared to be transformed by it. We will never be the same. Thank you.

    • #3
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:36 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Percival (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: I don’t think President Lincoln made this comment about marriage in jest; his own marriage was challenging, to say the least. His wife, Mary, had exorbitant spending habits, extreme moodiness …

    I read somewhere that she chased him out of the house once. With a knife.

    True, @percival. They did have their fights. He once picked her up when they were arguing outside and carried her back inside with her protests echoing down the street. Before he was Prez, of course.

    • #4
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:38 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  5. Stad Coolidge

    Percival (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: I don’t think President Lincoln made this comment about marriage in jest; his own marriage was challenging, to say the least. His wife, Mary, had exorbitant spending habits, extreme moodiness …

    I read somewhere that she chased him out of the house once. With a knife.

     

    I’m waiting for a conspiracy theorist to write a book “proving” she hired John Wiles Booth . . .

    • #5
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:41 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  6. Stad Coolidge

    Susan Quinn: Many people go into a marriage expecting that they will live happily ever after

    This is something I hope my youngest daughter understands (She and her fiancé finally set a date for their wedding – this July!). Love alone won’t guarantee a successful marriage. However, love is the framework on which all the other things you mention (dedication, honesty, communication, hard work ) function. She sees how Mom and Dad get along, even when we argue about something. She sees us discuss finances, how we make big decisions together, and how we don’t act rashly when it comes to something we want which the other is hesitant on agreeing to.

    Great post, as usual . . .

    • #6
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:49 AM PDT
    • 8 likes
  7. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. StephensJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    We were married at 24, and a couple since 20. Were we too young? We are 49 now, and this year will mark 25 years of marriage. 

    My marriage has never felt like Purgatory to me. I cannot speak for her, though I imagine her darkest thoughts on our marriage is that she does not deserve me. In my dark spaces, I know I don’t deserve her. If our marriage is not Purgatory, then, what is it?

    We have had dark times and light times together.

    We have fought with each other and we are together. 

    We have cried with joy together. 

    We have cried in pain together. 

    We have brought two lives into this world together. 

    We have lived our entire adults lives together.

    We don’t now how not to live together. 

    Our marriage, is us, together. 

     

    • #7
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:55 AM PDT
    • 23 likes
  8. Stad Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    We were married at 24, and a couple since 20. Were we too young? We are 49 now, and this year will mark 25 years of marriage.

    My marriage has never felt like Purgatory to me. I cannot speak for her, though I imagine her darkest thoughts on our marriage is that she does not deserve me. In my dark spaces, I know I don’t deserve her. If our marriage is not Purgatory, then, what is it?

    We have had dark times and light times together.

    We have fought with each other and we are together.

    We have cried with joy together.

    We have cried in pain together.

    We have brought two lives into this world together.

    We have lived our entire adults lives together.

    We don’t now how not to live together.

    Our marriage, is us, together.

     

    Well said!

    • #8
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:57 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  9. Hang On Member
    Hang OnJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    A sense of humor also helps.

    • #9
    • April 2, 2019, at 6:58 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Stad (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: Many people go into a marriage expecting that they will live happily ever after

    This is something I hope my youngest daughter understands (She and her fiancé finally set a date for their wedding – this July!). Love alone won’t guarantee a successful marriage. However, love is the framework on which all the other things you mention (dedication, honesty, communication, hard work ) function. She sees how Mom and Dad get along, even when we argue about something. She sees us discuss finances, how we make big decisions together, and how we don’t act rashly when it comes to something we want which the other is hesitant on agreeing to.

    Great post, as usual . . .

    Thanks, @stad. Having seen you two together, I can tell that you set a wonderful example for your daughter. How fortunate you all are!

    • #10
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:13 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Hang On (View Comment):

    A sense of humor also helps.

    Absolutely! In fact, I’d say it’s essential. We make each other laugh often! Good point, @hangon!

    • #11
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:14 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  12. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    My marriage has never felt like Purgatory to me.

    It doesn’t have to feel that way, @bryangstephens. You chose to reach for heaven, I suspect, and worked hard to get there with all the challenges heaven offers. Good for you!

    • #12
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:15 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  13. Stad Coolidge

    Hang On (View Comment):

    A sense of humor also helps.

    I think it’s vital. If you can’t laugh at yourselves or in tough times, life together gets a lot harder . . .

    • #13
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:20 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  14. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    The tricky thing about marriage is that most people getting married are far too young to comprehend what they’re committing to. How can you understand what “forever” means when you’re only a few years into your adult life?

    But I think one of the biggest mistakes a newlywed can make is to assume that marriage will just fit into your existing life somehow. That marriage will enable you to continue being the same person, with “married” just being another box checked off. It doesn’t work that way.

    Committing to a marriage means accepting that you will become a different person. You will be shaped by the marriage; it (and your spouse) will become part of you. It means that years down the road, it will no longer be a question of wanting to be together; it’s rather the simple fact that you can’t comprehend not being together, because it’s who you are. You are agreeing to be incomplete by yourself.

    That’s if you do it right, and you mean what you say. If you insist on remaining separate and independent, but somehow still married, I think that is at best a recipe for unhappiness, and more likely a recipe for a short marriage.

    Perhaps that’s exactly why people should get married younger. Do it before they’ve had a chance to solidify (ossify), set in their ways. It might be easier to succeed at the project of changing into a couple if one isn’t already so set into being an island.

    • #14
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:24 AM PDT
    • 12 likes
  15. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHillJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Today is our 26th. But we weren’t young. I was 33 and the boss was 28. And we had a good foundation. My parents’ marriage was til-death-do-us-part after 30 years and her parents hit 54 before my mother-in-law passed five years ago. 

    Simply put, my wife is the best thing that ever happened to me. Her children adore her and so do I. Never have I thought of my marriage as being anything other than a blessing, and one that I probably didn’t deserve.

    One of our sons is pining over a girl who’s not interested in a romantic relationship. The silly part is that one of the reasons she gives him is that they are the best of friends, which is where all good marriages end up. And that’s the hardest part.

    The stuff at the beginning, the fireworks, getting all hot and bothered, the sex – that’s easy. Becoming the best of friends and weathering the storms is the secret to longevity.

    • #15
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:30 AM PDT
    • 14 likes
  16. A-Squared Coolidge

    I always say it is not true that married men live longer than single men, it just feels that way.

    • #16
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:37 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    EJHill (View Comment):
    The stuff at the beginning, the fireworks, getting all hot and bothered, the sex – that’s easy. Becoming the best of friends and weathering the storms is the secret to longevity.

    So beautifully said, @ejhill. I just remembered that when we became engaged, I went into a panic. I told my husband that once we got married, everything would change: our expectations, our love, our compatibility, our very life, and I assumed it would be awful! That he would expect me to do the “woman things” and he would only do the “man things.” He assured me we would stay the same. What is hysterical is that we both changed drastically, in such wonderful ways! Today he does the laundry and almost always cooks dinner and tells me to get lost! I love it! Anyway, We’re both blessed.

    • #17
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:44 AM PDT
    • 11 likes
  18. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):
    The tricky thing about marriage is that most people getting married are far too young to comprehend what they’re committing to. How can you understand what “forever” means when you’re only a few years into your adult life?

    The flip side to that though is that waiting too long and I think our already self-centered way of being is likely to be much more settled in. I know plenty of older people who are no better at commitment than a young person.

    • #18
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:48 AM PDT
    • 10 likes
  19. Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. Coolidge

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Perhaps that’s exactly why people should get married younger. Do it before they’ve had a chance to solidify (ossify), set in their ways. It might be easier to succeed at the project of changing into a couple if one isn’t already so set into being an island.

    Yes, I think there is something in that. In many ways, marriage is not just part of adulthood, but part of being an adult: it helps to define the kind of person you will become. The same, of course, is true of being single. But once you have traveled some distance down either road, I’m not sure how easy it would be to switch to the other. I’m sure it can be done, but there would be extra challenges.

    • #19
    • April 2, 2019, at 7:58 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  20. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge

    Susan Quinn: Remember: on the other side of purgatory one can find heaven: that place, with all its ups and downs, is where we can celebrate our lives, together.

    I think this is probably why I’m not a big fan of the “purgatory” comparison. Wouldn’t this suggest that there’s something better on the other side we’re waiting for? The rough spots are also Heaven for me. I know that probably sounds a bit weird but I consciously have some similar thoughts during arguments and I know that I don’t have the fear of my wife leaving me. It’s a comforting feeling that actually keeps me from escalating the argument. I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well but I guess I just don’t see the ups and downs as being separate.

    • #20
    • April 2, 2019, at 8:04 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  21. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    Remember: on the other side of purgatory one can find heaven: that place, with all its ups and downs, is where we can celebrate our lives, together.

    I finished with this comment, @chrishutch13:

    “Remember: on the other side of purgatory one can find heaven: that place, with all its ups and downs, is where we can celebrate our lives, together.”

    • #21
    • April 2, 2019, at 8:15 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  22. Columbo Member

    Beautiful thoughts and reflection @susanquinn.

    My only contribution would be to suggest that it is not either/or. It is both/and. All of the above.

    It is heaven. It is hell. It is purgatory. To every thing, there is a season …. turn, turn, turn.

    And … the promise is … as your closing sentiment expresses well … on the other side, there is heaven.

    He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” Revelation 21: 4

    • #22
    • April 2, 2019, at 8:16 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  23. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Lincoln was incorrect. Marriage isn’t Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, because those are all non-mortal states while marriage is a mortal institution.

    Mortal institutions are designed by humans as solutions to mortal problems but, as Thomas Sowell writes, there’s no such thing as solutions, only trade-offs. Therefore, all mortal institutions generate challenges as well as benefits.

    Purgatory, by contrast, was created by The Almighty to punish and/or rehabilitate sinful souls, which are non-mortal. That is not the purpose of marriage.

    • #23
    • April 2, 2019, at 8:42 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  24. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Lincoln was incorrect. Marriage isn’t Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, because those are all non-mortal states while marriage is a mortal institution.

    Mortal institutions are designed by humans as solutions to mortal problems but, as Thomas Sowell writes, there’s no such thing as solutions, only trade-offs. Therefore, all mortal institutions generate challenges as well as benefits.

    Purgatory, by contrast, was created by The Almighty to punish and/or rehabilitate sinful souls, which are non-mortal. That is not the purpose of marriage.

    It’s a metaphor, Mis. . .

    • #24
    • April 2, 2019, at 8:58 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  25. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Lincoln was incorrect. Marriage isn’t Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, because those are all non-mortal states while marriage is a mortal institution.

    Mortal institutions are designed by humans as solutions to mortal problems but, as Thomas Sowell writes, there’s no such thing as solutions, only trade-offs. Therefore, all mortal institutions generate challenges as well as benefits.

    Purgatory, by contrast, was created by The Almighty to punish and/or rehabilitate sinful souls, which are non-mortal. That is not the purpose of marriage.

    It’s a metaphor, Mis. . .

    A bad one.

    • #25
    • April 2, 2019, at 9:07 AM PDT
    • Like
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Misthiocracy secretly (View Comment):

    Lincoln was incorrect. Marriage isn’t Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, because those are all non-mortal states while marriage is a mortal institution.

    Mortal institutions are designed by humans as solutions to mortal problems but, as Thomas Sowell writes, there’s no such thing as solutions, only trade-offs. Therefore, all mortal institutions generate challenges as well as benefits.

    Purgatory, by contrast, was created by The Almighty to punish and/or rehabilitate sinful souls, which are non-mortal. That is not the purpose of marriage.

    It may not be the purpose of marriage, but there are those who behave as if they are entitled to act any way they wish .

    • #26
    • April 2, 2019, at 9:30 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  27. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas PrattJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    “Marriage isn’t a word, it’s a sentence.”

    –Henny Youngmann

    • #27
    • April 2, 2019, at 9:51 AM PDT
    • 7 likes
  28. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    The tricky thing about marriage is that most people getting married are far too young to comprehend what they’re committing to. How can you understand what “forever” means when you’re only a few years into your adult life?

    But I think one of the biggest mistakes a newlywed can make is to assume that marriage will just fit into your existing life somehow. That marriage will enable you to continue being the same person, with “married” just being another box checked off. It doesn’t work that way.

    Committing to a marriage means accepting that you will become a different person. You will be shaped by the marriage; it (and your spouse) will become part of you. It means that years down the road, it will no longer be a question of wanting to be together; it’s rather the simple fact that you can’t comprehend not being together, because it’s who you are. You are agreeing to be incomplete by yourself.

    That’s if you do it right, and you mean what you say. If you insist on remaining separate and independent, but somehow still married, I think that is at best a recipe for unhappiness, and more likely a recipe for a short marriage.

    Age at first marriage in the US is 27.6 for women and 29.5 for men (here). This is not too young. This is too old.

    I don’t think that young people are incapable of understanding the commitment involved. I think that our culture fails, tragically and terribly, to teach them.

    Marriage means I’m not leaving, no matter what. There will be changes, and problems, but they must be worked out, because I’m not leaving, no matter what.

    Further, what I’ve learned in 30 years, since getting married at 22, is that marriage is not principally about me and my wife. It’s about our kids. Marriage creates the stability necessary for the flourishing of the next generation. Without the next generation, the human story ends. Without a proper foundation and transmission of values, the next generation will not flourish.

    Biologically, the clock is ticking, for women. From Women’s Health:

    So, biologically-speaking, the best age for a woman to get pregnant is in her twenties. By then, her body is mature enough to actually carry a child—and she’s got a solid decade before her fertility starts to decline (that begins at 32 and becomes more rapid after 37).

    I’ve read the tragic stories of several of our fellow Ricochetti who were unable to have children (made in response to an insensitive comment of mine, once upon a time). We generally cannot know if starting earlier would have helped in any particular case, but the statistics indicate that it might.

    Second-wave feminism and the sexual revolution have been quite destructive in this regard, in my view.

    • #28
    • April 2, 2019, at 12:29 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  29. Sweezle Member

    I think about the love of my life everyday. He is now deceased but I have finally found clarity on our decades long marriage.

    At first I only remembered the joy and happiness.

    Then I started thinking about some of the rough patches without guilt.

    For me marriage was the greatest adventure of my life. It was one part hell, two parts purgatory and five parts heaven. It was never perfect, it did involve lots of compromise (mostly mine?) and tons of patience (mostly his).

    Sharing a long-term loving relationship with this man gave me a lifetime of love. I hope every human being can find the joy of a relationship and friendship in marriage.

     

    • #29
    • April 2, 2019, at 12:48 PM PDT
    • 5 likes
  30. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I don’t think that young people are incapable of understanding the commitment involved. I think that our culture fails, tragically and terribly, to teach them.

    Thanks, Jerry. I think we have failed them, or they’ve been otherwise indoctrinated. They either choose to skip marriage–hey, who needs that piece of paper–or when it gets dicey, they figure they can leave. So much for building character, in part, through marriage.

    • #30
    • April 2, 2019, at 12:49 PM PDT
    • 3 likes

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