The More Things Change, the More They Stay the Same

 

There is a guy named Andrew Yang who is running for president and opposes circumcision. He’s in infamous company since it was Hitler who said: “The Jews have inflicted two wounds on mankind — circumcision on its body and conscience on its soul.”

In the days ahead, you will hear that “just because you oppose circumcision does not mean you hate Jews” as you have heard “just because you oppose Israel does not mean you hate Jews.” Both statements are true if you believe in unicorns.

Yet circumcision could be a civilizing practice, for Hitler also said: “It is true we (Nazis) are barbarians. It is an honorable title.” Leftists are almost there. The behavior of Antifa goons is barbaric and the longings of certain elected officials are barbaric, too.

You might think that people would want to emulate Jews based on their staggering achievements down through history until the phenomenal success of Israel today. But the virus of Jew hatred runs deep.

Today we celebrate Purim and our victory over Haman, who wanted to destroy the Jewish people. The mullahs in Iran today have the same ambition.

And now we suddenly have to contend with members of Congress and a presidential candidate with Haman/Hitler-like pronouncements.

(To be clear, parents have every right not to circumcise their sons. It’s the Andrew Yangs who want to prohibit circumcision for everyone who are the problem.)

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  1. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu:

    In the days ahead, you will hear that “just because you oppose circumcision does not mean you hate Jews” as you have heard “just because you oppose Israel does not mean you hate Jews.” Both statements are true if you believe in unicorns.

    I do not believe in unicorns, but I opposed circumcision for my son when he was born purely on a physical basis. There was no reason for an unnecessary surgery on a newborn. That this somehow makes me a Jew-hater is preposterous. That the entire world needs to follow a Jewish religious practice or otherwise be branded as ‘haters’ is arrogance defined.

     

     

    • #1
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Maybe it was from Drudge that I saw an article where he is openly calling for government censorship.   One important thing will be whether any Democrats know the old liberal arguments with which to condemn this talk.   In the old days they could almost do it in their sleep, although you might have to associate that kind of talk with “extreme right” in order for their neurons to make the necessary connections.  

    • #2
  3. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    I do not think opposition to circumcision is necessarily opposition to Jews. (Though given today’s virulently anti-Semitic Democratic party, it’s hard to know for sure.) But I suspect that many/most people who oppose it have no idea of its religious significance. (Which is more about mass ignorance than anything else.)

    • #3
  4. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):
    I do not think opposition to circumcision is necessarily opposition to Jews.

    My pediatrician didn’t want to do it. My husband wanted it done for my son, and it upset our pediatrician so much that it was his last one and he started a mini-crusade against doing them routinely.

    I nearly fainted when I saw it. In fact, one my favorite episodes for Cheers is the circumcision one (sorry about the poor quality of video). The last scene is priceless with Lilith being carried out. :-)

    • #4
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    I do not think opposition to circumcision is necessarily opposition to Jews. (Though given today’s virulently anti-Semitic Democratic party, it’s hard to know for sure.) But I suspect that many/most people who oppose it have no idea of its religious significance. (Which is more about mass ignorance than anything else.)

    I would also distinguish “I choose not to circumcise” from “I am opposed to circumcision.” The latter might be acceptable, but it puts me on the alert for a tendency to get political about it. And these days you can’t separate politics from medical practice.     

    • #5
  6. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    This Evangelical Christian does not believe Israel is the fulfillment of God’s promises to Abraham, but I support them and want them to do well, in the same way I support the UK and want it to do well.  Does that mean I hate Jews?

    Hardly!

    (Neither do I hate Esau’s descendants.  But I am sure opposed to some nations of them.  And I am sure opposed to having an open borders policy toward the Mohammedans!)

     

    • #6
  7. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Juliana (View Comment):

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu:

    In the days ahead, you will hear that “just because you oppose circumcision does not mean you hate Jews” as you have heard “just because you oppose Israel does not mean you hate Jews.” Both statements are true if you believe in unicorns.

    I do not believe in unicorns, but I opposed circumcision for my son when he was born purely on a physical basis. There was no reason for an unnecessary surgery on a newborn. That this somehow makes me a Jew-hater is preposterous. That the entire world needs to follow a Jewish religious practice or otherwise be branded as ‘haters’ is arrogance defined.

    Whether one chooses to circumcise or not isn’t the issue. This is about a politician who wants to ban the practice for everyone, which is very much an attack on the Jewish faith.

    • #7
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I nearly fainted when I saw it. In fact, one my favorite episodes for Cheers is the circumcision one (sorry about the poor quality of video). The last scene is priceless with Lilith being carried out. :-)

    They have a character named Lilith?  (I never watched Cheers, but I’m pretty sure that was the program that was sometimes on the TV when I walked by. I was there long enough to hear that people were laughing, but it wasn’t clear why.) 

    • #8
  9. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Echoing others, I have heard more than a few fellow Christians refuse to circumcise their children purely on the basis of disliking the temporary pain it inflicts. Circumcision is common among Catholics in continuation of the Jewish tradition, but it is not required. 

    I’m sure thoughts to ban the practice are sometimes anti-Semitic or anti-deist. But the more common motivation seems to be simply the affluent exaggeration of pain as an ethical concern. 

    It would be interesting to compare overlap of objections to circumcision and objections to female genital mutilation (FGM). The latter involves not just a fleeting pain at an age before memory but enduring damage to a woman’s ability to experience sexual pleasure. But Islam is in vogue. Judaism and Christianity are not.

    • #9
  10. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Vance Richards (View Comment):
    Whether one chooses to circumcise or not isn’t the issue. This is about a politician who wants to ban the practice for everyone, which is very much an attack on the Jewish faith.

    That’s true. Surely he’s not so ignorant as to realize what such a ban would mean to Jews.

    Or, given the quality of politicians these days, perhaps he is.

    And what is it with politicians who think that their own personal preferences must be codified in law such that the things they like are mandated and the things they dislike are outlawed?

     

    • #10
  11. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    I would rather know where Andrew Yang stands on female circumcision.  He allegedly agreed to discuss his position with Ben Shapiro.  Let’s add Ayaan Ali Hirsi in to the mix and get it all about into the open.

    • #11
  12. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I didn’t get the sense from the articles I just read such as this one that Yang is looking to ban it. Just to “give parents choices.” At which point, I have no idea what he is talking about. Since when don’t parents have choices about circumcision? Good grief.

    Anyway, this is from The Hill:

    Yang, 44, said he wants to “inform parents that it is entirely up to them whether their infant gets circumcised, and that there are costs and benefits either way,” while not supporting a ban on the practice. 

    He’s ill informed–parents have to sign quite a stack of papers before the pediatricians will do it. 

    He’s a fanatic about it, and like all fanatics, his information is incorrect. 

     

    • #12
  13. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I didn’t get the sense from the articles I just read such as this one that Yang is looking to ban it. Just to “give parents choices.” At which point, I have no idea what he is talking about. Since when don’t parents have choices about circumcision? Good grief.

    Anyway, this is from The Hill:

    Yang, 44, said he wants to “inform parents that it is entirely up to them whether their infant gets circumcised, and that there are costs and benefits either way,” while not supporting a ban on the practice.

    He’s ill informed–parents have to sign quite a stack of papers before the pediatricians will do it.

    He’s a fanatic about it, and like all fanatics, his information is incorrect.

     

    That’s interesting, because on other topics he wants government to control the flow of information. 

    • #13
  14. Vance Richards Inactive
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    The government is $22 trillion in debt and circumcision is an issue in presidential politics?

    • #14
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    I have no skin in this controversy.

    Well, not anymore…

    • #15
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    I am pro-circumcision and wildly pro-Jew, but I do think one can be opposed to circumcision while having no bias against Jews — just as one can be pro-circumcision while having no particular affinity for Jews.

    • #16
  17. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    There is a wider discussion to be had here – how much power would we grant to the government to prohibit religious practices/requirements. 

    FGM is considered a religious requirement by some sects of Islam.  I don’t support FGM, but I do think that the near universal agreement that it should be banned opens the door for government banning other religious practices or requirements.  And the obvious first target would be circumcision.  After all, they both involve the genital modification of children. 

    Obviously, lines must be drawn, we wouldn’t allow religious human sacrifice (well, unless you include abortion….)  but we should tread very carefully when we open the door for government to override religious requirements. 

     

    • #17
  18. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I am pro-circumcision and wildly pro-Jew, but I do think one can be opposed to circumcision while having no bias against Jews — just as one can be pro-circumcision while having no particular affinity for Jews.

    When you say you can be opposed to circumcision while having no bias against Jews, I assume you mean you can be opposed to circumcision for non-Jews?   I find it hard to argue that you can be for refusing to let Jews perform one of their basic religious rituals without having some bias against Jews.  

    • #18
  19. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu: it was Hitler who said: “The Jews have inflicted two wounds on mankind — circumcision on its body and conscience on its soul.”

    Yehoshua,

    Yes, I agree 99.9% of the opposition is either anti-Jewish or just anti-religious. Why not just leave circumcision optional. That’s the easy and libertarian solution. However, I’m more interested in the quote from Hitler about “conscience” as a wound on mankind’s soul. This is specifically a claim Hitler made in Mein Kampf about the Jews “inventing morality”. Very flattering until you realize that Hitler is following Nietzsche’s view that Judeo-Christian morality is a negative anti-human idea and he is blaming the Jews for “inventing” it.

    There is immorality, accepting morality but breaking it anyway, there is amorality, claiming morality has no meaning, and there is anti-morality, blaming morality for mankind’s problems. Nietzsche & Hitler are in the anti-morality category. A very very dangerous category.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #19
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    The government is $22 trillion in debt and circumcision is an issue in presidential politics?

    It’s one and the same issue. A government that spends as much money as ours does has politicized most of life’s decisions.  

    • #20
  21. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I am pro-circumcision and wildly pro-Jew, but I do think one can be opposed to circumcision while having no bias against Jews — just as one can be pro-circumcision while having no particular affinity for Jews.

    Again, it’s not a matter of whether you want to circumcise your own child or not. The issue is, do you want to prohibit other parents from the practice? This is a conscience issue, and like all good leftists, Yang would prefer you be made to follow his!

    I wrote about this on my blog back in 2011, when San Francisco was proposing to ban circumcision. The Left is relentless. We ceded the rainbow and marriage to them. Other signs of the covenant are next. 

    • #21
  22. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    Has anybody ever been mentally scarred, physically damaged or die from circumcision? I don’t understand the outrage either pro or con.

    • #22
  23. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Has anybody ever been mentally scarred, physically damaged or die from circumcision? I don’t understand the outrage either pro or con.

    I seem to have survived as a circumcised gentile. 

    • #23
  24. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    The CDC is silent on Jews but endorses circumcision.

    • #24
  25. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I am pro-circumcision and wildly pro-Jew, but I do think one can be opposed to circumcision while having no bias against Jews — just as one can be pro-circumcision while having no particular affinity for Jews.

    Again, it’s not a matter of whether you want to circumcise your own child or not. The issue is, do you want to prohibit other parents from the practice? This is a conscience issue, and like all good leftists, Yang would prefer you be made to follow his!

    I wrote about this on my blog back in 2011, when San Francisco was proposing to ban circumcision. The Left is relentless. We ceded the rainbow and marriage to them. Other signs of the covenant are next.

    Yes, I understand that. I was simply contradicting the implication that opposition to circumcision is inherently anti-Semitic.

    I am in favor of the legality of male circumcision. I am opposed to the legality of female genital mutilation. I would oppose government efforts to prohibit male circumcision. I would support government efforts (certainly at the state level) to prohibit female genital mutilation.

    • #25
  26. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Has anybody ever been mentally scarred, physically damaged or die from circumcision? I don’t understand the outrage either pro or con.

    I seem to have survived as a circumcised gentile.

    A and thelonious,

    As you guys know, I don’t always agree with the libertarian argument but in this case, it is so obvious a solution that one wonders about those that think otherwise.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #26
  27. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    James Gawron (View Comment):

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Has anybody ever been mentally scarred, physically damaged or die from circumcision? I don’t understand the outrage either pro or con.

    I seem to have survived as a circumcised gentile.

    A and thelonious,

    As you guys know, I don’t always agree with the libertarian argument but in this case, it is so obvious a solution that one wonders about those that think otherwise.

    Regards,

    Jim

    But it is the way it’s handled now. Parents aren’t forced to do it or prohibited from doing it.

    There is no issue here.

    • #27
  28. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu: There is a guy named Andrew Yang who is running for president and opposes circumcision.

    Is he going to propose reparations for those of us who’ve been circumcised?

    • #28
  29. Online Park Member
    Online Park
    @OnlinePark

    Certainly some baby boys have been damaged. It is a surgical procedure on a tiny tiny penis.  https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-13-me-reimer13-story.html

    These twin boys lived in my city. I have read the book, both eventually committed suicide.

    My son, now in his mid 40s was not circumcised (it was very unusual then to not have it done).

    • #29
  30. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Stad (View Comment):

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu: There is a guy named Andrew Yang who is running for president and opposes circumcision.

    Is he going to propose reparations for those of us who’ve been circumcised?

    Stad,

    You know a good case could be made that just being born is pretty darn tough. After all, life isn’t easy. Hey, why don’t we get reparations for just being born?

     Yeah, that’s the ticket! I could be a Democratic Party political consultant. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #30
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