Sorry Anti-Vaxxers, the Numbers are Against You

 

My grandmother was justifiably terrified of polio, which is why she didn’t let my mom play with other kids in the summertime, when polio was most likely to strike.  My great aunt died in the flu epidemic of 1917, and my father barely survived whooping cough as a baby.

Anti-vaxxers, plagued with fear untempered by experience, and benefitting from herd immunity need to be reminded of a world without vaccines.  So Michael Ramirez, who is old enough to remember the very human cost of denying vaccinations, is making a print available at a very low cost to medical professionals for their offices.  Sometimes people just need a reminder:

The prints are available for $100 each for medical professionals and care providers here.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Meanwhile, they are more prone to believe in fake stuff like Quack Medicine, Astrology, UFO’s, ESP, Crystal Power, Ancient Astronauts, Ghosts, Bigfoot

    #1, it’s called “Alternative Medicine”

    #2. I’m a Taurus.

    #3. What do you call it when you can’t identify it either?

    #4. Don’t say it. I already know.

    #5. Hematite is very balancing and calming. You should try it.

    #6. What do you call Buzz Aldrin?

    #7. There’s better evidence of the last two than of vaccine injury.

    Funny stuff. But I bet if you gave someone a crystal of anything-but-hematite, told them it was hematite, and “Hematite is very balancing and calming,” you’d get the exact same results.

    Depends on the person. A True Believer, yes. Skeptic? Not bloody likely.

    Ah, but you misunderstand.  The same results would be the same results for either a True Believer, or a Skeptic.  The True Believer would have “results” the same as if it was really hematite, and the Skeptic would have NOTHING the same as if it was really hematite.

    • #61
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Part of what might be… confusing… some people, perhaps including yourself, is the misconception that past vaccination makes current vaccination unnecessary. But that is not true. Many of the anti-vaccination crowd seem to rely on the “fact” that vaccination doesn’t seem necessary because something like “nobody gets polio any more!”

    I would need to see the evidence that anybody thinks that way. Y’know, science.

    It’s one of the arguments they make. If polio etc were at the levels they were at before vaccination, as in the OP for example, they wouldn’t be able to use that as a crutch. But to the extent they succeed, they lead to that very result. Again, as is already being seen in recent outbreaks of measles etc.

    There was also an episode of “Emergency!” back in the 70s that made the same point. The kid’s (10 years old or less, as I recall) mother didn’t get him the polio treatment because “nobody gets polio any more.” One of the doctors commented, “What do you think she’ll tell him, when he’s old enough to understand?”

    Well, if I can appeal to movies/TV as evidence, I guess you can too.

    It’s not evidence, it’s an illustration/example.

     In that case, I’d like to see the evidence.

    • #62
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Oops. wrong thread.

    • #63
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Part of what might be… confusing… some people, perhaps including yourself, is the misconception that past vaccination makes current vaccination unnecessary. But that is not true. Many of the anti-vaccination crowd seem to rely on the “fact” that vaccination doesn’t seem necessary because something like “nobody gets polio any more!”

    I would need to see the evidence that anybody thinks that way. Y’know, science.

    It’s one of the arguments they make. If polio etc were at the levels they were at before vaccination, as in the OP for example, they wouldn’t be able to use that as a crutch. But to the extent they succeed, they lead to that very result. Again, as is already being seen in recent outbreaks of measles etc.

    There was also an episode of “Emergency!” back in the 70s that made the same point. The kid’s (10 years old or less, as I recall) mother didn’t get him the polio treatment because “nobody gets polio any more.” One of the doctors commented, “What do you think she’ll tell him, when he’s old enough to understand?”

    Well, if I can appeal to movies/TV as evidence, I guess you can too.

    It’s not evidence, it’s an illustration/example.

    In that case, I’d like to see the evidence.

    It’s also illustrative of the evidence.  The “vaccine deniers” appear to be – MUST be, when you get down to it, whether they realize it or not – assuming a static model, where their non-vaccinating doesn’t have any effect on the larger group.  But it does.  Especially the more people they convince to go along with them.  It’s similar to how people like AOC assume they can put nuclear power and coal and airlines and more out of business, and then pay for their grand plans with tax money that… comes from…. all those companies……. that are no longer in business……. hmmmm………….  How does that work exactly, AOC?

    • #64
  5. Melissa Praemonitus Member
    Melissa Praemonitus
    @6foot2inhighheels

    Caryn (View Comment):
    With all due respect to the earnest moms, their “research” is limited by the sources they consult and their own limitations and biases.

    Thank you so much for your informed commentary.  When I was raising my kids, a mom who “had done her research”, once harangued me for an hour about the “healthy pathways of disease process through the liver channels” being preferable to the “false and unhealthy cascade of enzymes” produced by vaccinations.  She shook a book in my face, written by a “real doctor”, which she said supported all her allegations, and if I only would read it, I would understand.  Then there was another mom, who claimed that she would not vaccinate her kids, because during her childhood, a “bad vaccine” for whooping cough was administered to people in her town, and everyone came down with whooping cough, but it was so mild as to be inconsequential, so she suspected that all childhood illness simply served to make children stronger.

    I think some of the readers of this thread misunderstand the purpose of editorial cartooning, which is indeed intended to mock and criticize whatever group or person is targeted.  So sorry not sorry for that.  By the way, Michael P. Ramirez comes from a family of physicians.  All his brothers and sisters are physicians, and he was preparing for med school when his career aspirations took a unexpected turn to his particular art.

    A few readers of MichaelPRamirez.com are frequently offended, and I get all the hate mail, which is often addressed to Michael, but sometimes to me personally.  The Anti-Vaxxer cartoon has generated some doozies from all kinds of misinformed wackadoodles, who can’t tell normal biology from unnatural acts of whatever.

    • #65
  6. ladylazarus Inactive
    ladylazarus
    @ladylazarus

    I have no qualms about calling it the way I see it, and though I attempt to use civil language, I apologize in advance for anything I say they may imply that I find antivaxxers smug wastes of life and air whose privileges as a parent and a member of society should be revoked immediately. 

    I mean, I wouldn’t want to imply that. It would be so rude and definitely not conducive to civil discussion. 

    In my experiences as a mother with two young children, unfortunately there is no arguing with this subset of individuals. They have decided which sources to become well informed on and you’re better off trying to teach an ant quantum physics. I also would definitely not like to imply that they are willfully ignorant in the most scientifically enlightened age of our world, or that they are wrestling progress and safety to the ground bellowing like a buffalo! That would be SO RUDE. And I am not a rude person, so I will definitely not shun or shame these people who have decided they are doctors and know what’s best for the children I definitely won’t say they shouldn’t be raising. 

    I would hate to imply that nature will take its course and more babies will be punished for their parents’ hubris. I’d hate to make people think that my opinion is that the (usually themselves vaccinated) parents are in any way stupid, or idiots, or flagrantly taunting fate with the lives of their legacy. I would hate to use a straw man or ad hominem argument…

    …because I don’t even have to. These people exist, in the flesh. They are parodies of themselves by their deeds and no one else’s. And they’re not going to change their minds in the face of any well-reasoned or respectful case; they’ll pretend to consider it and then pelt you with links to their personal smug disease-ridden echo chambers. I vet my mommy friends and playgroups and quietly cut antivaxxers out of my life, because they’re the ones that made that bed with smallpox infested blankets. 

    • #66
  7. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    ladylazarus (View Comment):
    …because I don’t even have to. These people exist, in the flesh. They are parodies of themselves by their deeds and no one else’s. And they’re not going to change their minds in the face of any well-reasoned or respectful case; they’ll pretend to consider it and then pelt you with links to their personal smug disease-ridden echo chambers. I vet my mommy friends and playgroups and quietly cut antivaxxers out of my life, because they’re the ones that made that bed with smallpox infested blankets. 

    I hope you realize this comment is precisely the approach taken against “climate deniers” by the global warming crowd.

    • #67
  8. ladylazarus Inactive
    ladylazarus
    @ladylazarus

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    ladylazarus (View Comment):
    …because I don’t even have to. These people exist, in the flesh. They are parodies of themselves by their deeds and no one else’s. And they’re not going to change their minds in the face of any well-reasoned or respectful case; they’ll pretend to consider it and then pelt you with links to their personal smug disease-ridden echo chambers. I vet my mommy friends and playgroups and quietly cut antivaxxers out of my life, because they’re the ones that made that bed with smallpox infested blankets.

    I hope you realize this comment is precisely the approach taken against “climate deniers” by the global warming crowd.

    Maybe it’s time to consider that having a credible stance SHOULD be supported by evidence, and not turned into a partisan issue. 

    • #68
  9. Slow on the uptake Coolidge
    Slow on the uptake
    @Chuckles

    ladylazarus (View Comment):
    you’re better off trying to teach an ant quantum physics.

    What do you have against ants?

    • #69
  10. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Melissa Praemonitus (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):
    With all due respect to the earnest moms, their “research” is limited by the sources they consult and their own limitations and biases.

    Thank you so much for your informed commentary. When I was raising my kids, a mom who “had done her research”, once harangued me for an hour about the “healthy pathways of disease process through the liver channels” being preferable to the “false and unhealthy cascade of enzymes” produced by vaccinations. She shook a book in my face, written by a “real doctor”, which she said supported all her allegations, and if I only would read it, I would understand. Then there was another mom, who claimed that she would not vaccinate her kids, because during her childhood, a “bad vaccine” for whooping cough was administered to people in her town, and everyone came down with whooping cough, but it was so mild as to be inconsequential, so she suspected that all childhood illness simply served to make children stronger.

    I think some of the readers of this thread misunderstand the purpose of editorial cartooning, which is indeed intended to mock and criticize whatever group or person is targeted. So sorry not sorry for that. By the way, Michael P. Ramirez comes from a family of physicians. All his brothers and sisters are physicians, and he was preparing for med school when his career aspirations took a unexpected turn to his particular art.

    A few readers of MichaelPRamirez.com are frequently offended, and I get all the hate mail, which is often addressed to Michael, but sometimes to me personally. The Anti-Vaxxer cartoon has generated some doozies from all kinds of misinformed wackadoodles, who can’t tell normal biology from unnatural acts of whatever.

    I appreciate your kind words.  And Michael Ramirez’s cartoon–this one and so many others before (and I’m sure to come, too).  One little quibble, particularly  considering medical background in his and his family: tuberculosis is not one of the diseases prevented by vaccination, particularly in the US.  There is a TB vaccine used in a lot of the rest of the world, but it’s only been shown to be effective in preventing childhood TB meningitis and disseminated disease (blood borne or “miliary” type) in high-endemicity areas of the world.  Just a little quibble, but it is in my area of specialization.

    • #70
  11. ladylazarus Inactive
    ladylazarus
    @ladylazarus

    Slow on the uptake (View Comment):

    ladylazarus (View Comment):
    you’re better off trying to teach an ant quantum physics.

    What do you have against ants?

    They come into my house and crawl on my stuff. Otherwise they’re pretty cool. :) 

    • #71
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