Insulting Jews Everywhere—A Call to Congress

 

Dear Members of Congress,

You should be embarrassed by your lack of courage regarding the anti-Semitism resolution that has been proposed, and apologize to Jews everywhere. How could you even think of changing the resolution to include every single group discriminated against? I am insulted and disgusted by your decisions to consider these changes, since you are either politically stupid or historically uneducated. Let me explain why:

First, to equate anti-Semitism with any other group that is discriminated against is ludicrous. We are not just talking about discrimination: we are talking about centuries of murder, torture, isolation, hatred, marginalizing and rejecting the Jews. Centuries. Every other group in America pales historically in comparison in several ways. Tell me about the centuries of hatred against LGBTQ communities; explain how blacks in this country were victims of hatred in the United States more than 500 years ago (since they weren’t a slave population in this country before then). 

Second, Judaism is one basis of the founding of this country. Its values, morals and ethics have become the basis of Christianity and Islam. Isn’t it finally due some public support in our times by condemning those who would destroy or marginalize us?

Third, anti-Semitism is alive and well in almost every country in the world, whether you are talking about Europe, Asia or Africa. Jews have often been the scapegoat of choice for 4,000 years, by nearly every religion and every civilization. Unlike many other groups, I speak as a Jew who refuses to speak about being victimized; instead, I speak the truth. I acknowledge the anti-Semitism I’ve experienced, and I choose to rise above it, rather than blame all of society for this treatment. I don’t expect special favors, reparations, or any kind of compensation. I will take care of myself, thank you.

But when societies begin to show signs (including the U.S.) of increased anti-Semitic activity, I become concerned. Individual anti-Semitic acts are one thing; organized groups determined to spew their hatred on Jews, just because they are Jews. must be called out. These other groups that have been named have plenty of advocates, at political, cultural and educational levels. Where are the champions of the Jews?

I was comforted and proud that the U.S. was going to make a stand against anti-Semitism, as we see growing polarization, groups segregating themselves and aligning against Jews in particular. I understand that the resolution has no legal power. At the same time, we would be making a statement not just to Americans but to the world that we will not stand for anti-Semitism. Other groups have already spoken out for their constituency. Who will speak out for Jews?

I still hope that when the resolution is finalized and announced, politics are put aside. That extremists are discredited. And that wisdom, justice and compassion reign. That we condemn only anti-Semitism for this resolution.

Please don’t disappoint me.

P.S. Don’t bother to mention Ms. Omar; just censure her and remove her from committees. I don’t want her scapegoated in this resolution and thus make her a martyr.

 

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  1. unsk2 Member
    unsk2
    @

    Susan :”What the heck is he talking about? I want to be sure I understand. Omar’s pain over the recent criticism is greater than children who are brought up by Holocaust survivors? Seriously?”

    She is a refugee from Somalia, and that supposedly is where her pain comes from.  I know terrible things happened in Somalia but where does that experience give her the right to attack Jews? I don’t think she can legitimately claim that Jews caused the suffering and civil war in Somalia.  

    She is just a radical Islamist who wants to eliminate the Jewish presence in the holy land.  In the mind of an Islamist, once a country becomes conquered by Islam and thus a part of the Dar al Islam ( House of Islam roughly speaking) it can never go back to being part of Dar al Harb ( House of War) where we infidels live.  That is the Jew’s horrendous crime; they took back Israel from Islam which in the mind of an Islamist is unforgivable and must be redeemed at all costs. 

    • #61
  2. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Vance Richards (View Comment):

    Soooo, in response to anti-semitic comments by one of their own, Democrats are putting together a resolution that doesn’t really condemn anti-semitism itself but instead is more a general “We hate hate” type statement. And they are doing that in order to get the anti-semites in their caucus to vote for it. Is that a fair explanation?

     

    Yes it is very fair. They added everyone they could think of to make the resolution as meaningless as possible. Now they can all give each other high fives, and cheer for themselves without making a single sacrifice, because we all know only Republicans must sacrifice to pay for their omnipresent sins.

    • #62
  3. Dominique Prynne Member
    Dominique Prynne
    @DominiquePrynne

    Susan Quinn: But when societies begin to show signs (including the U.S.) of increased anti-Semitic activity, I become concerned.

    Yep, because, as has been said before, the Jews are the first in line in the hate-fest, and once you start condoning hate toward the first in line, the second and third in line has their time coming and so on.  Any bets who is next up in line right behind the Jews?

    As an evangelical Christian, I have absolutely no understanding of antisemitism.  The churches I grew up in always treated the Jews with deference as God’s chosen people.  I understand that, historically, Christians persecuted Jews due to the misguided placement of blame for the crucifixion of Jesus, but no church I grew up in subscribed to this view.  I read a comment the other day (maybe Denis Prager?) that American Christians are a pretty great gift to the Jews.   As one such Christian, I abhor antisemitism and those that excuse it or minimize it.  

    And @susanquinn, I totally agree…turning the statement into a general rebuke of hate isn’t enough.  Despicable!  

    • #63
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Vance Richards (View Comment):
    Soooo, in response to anti-semitic comments by one of their own, Democrats are putting together a resolution that doesn’t really condemn anti-semitism itself but instead is more a general “We hate hate” type statement. And they are doing that in order to get the anti-semites in their caucus to vote for it. Is that a fair explanation?

    I’m not surprised, @vancerichards. No guts, and ambivalent about anti-Semitism.

    • #64
  5. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    unsk2 (View Comment):
    She is a refugee from Somalia, and that supposedly is where her pain comes from. I know terrible things happened in Somalia but where does that experience give her the right to attack Jews? I don’t think she can legitimately claim that Jews caused the suffering and civil war in Somalia.

    Actually I saw a piece that said there was a protest against her in front of the twin towers. That’s what pain Clyburn was referring to. But if Somalia factors in, too, it doesn’t equate. Not for me.

    • #65
  6. Jon1979 Inactive
    Jon1979
    @Jon1979

    cdor (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    They’ll have to concede that some special interest groups aren’t worth pandering to, no matter how many votes they might harvest (where both Omar and Talib are in states that went narrowly against and for Trump in 2016), and the Dems’ leadership is trying to figure out a way to avoid that break.

    Anti Semitism–special interest groups…what about the Black Caucus?

    They’ve been playing photo op with Louis Farrakhan for years, but for the most part have steered away from any comments similar to his — they want his supporters to support them, but they didn’t want the firestorm that would come from parroting his talking points. Omar’s willing to take Farrakhan’s support and say the things he’s saying. If the other Democrats let her get away with it, expect some others in the CBC to become less shy about saying similar things, if there’s no price to pay for saying them.

    • #66
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Dominique Prynne (View Comment):

    As an evangelical Christian, I have absolutely no understanding of antisemitism. The churches I grew up in always treated the Jews with deference as God’s chosen people. I understand that, historically, Christians persecuted Jews due to the misguided placement of blame for the crucifixion of Jesus, but no church I grew up in subscribed to this view. I read a comment the other day (maybe Denis Prager?) that American Christians are a pretty great gift to the Jews. As one such Christian, I abhor antisemitism and those that excuse it or minimize it.

    And @susanquinn, I totally agree…turning the statement into a general rebuke of hate isn’t enough. Despicable!

    I love my Christian friends, and I’m glad to include you with them, @dominiqueprynne. And I agree, you guys are already in their sights. And there will be more.

    • #67
  8. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Stad (View Comment):

    I suggest those House members who are Jewish start wearing gold stars to House sessions. When asked why by the MSM, they could respond, “We’re wearing them to make Representatives Omar and Tlaib feel more at home.”

    And the other House members could wear T-shirts that say, “I Stand With the Drama Queens.”

    That’s a pretty big overreaction, Stad, to have a contingent of mostly millionaire liberal politicians play-acting at being European ghetto Jews in the US Congress over something a member said about Israel that was “hurtful.”

    • #68
  9. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Kay of MT (View Comment):
    I think every single Jew in this country of voting age should vote republican this coming elections. It might give the Dems something to think about.

    Good luck with that.

    In case you are unaware, Jews in the 2018 midterms voted Democratic 79% of the time according to the exit polls. Just like every other stinking election.

    That percentage puts them below only black women and black men as the most mind-numbed, knee-jerk, robotic Democratic constituency. 

    • #69
  10. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    cdor (View Comment):
    Yes it is very fair. They added everyone they could think of to make the resolution as meaningless as possible.

    They — and you — missed “whites” and “Christians.”

    How apt.

    • #70
  11. Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu Inactive
    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu
    @YehoshuaBenEliyahu

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    You’re in the same place as a conservative at a NYC cocktail party.

    Excuse me, but that’s BS.  If you have the most casual acquaintance with Jewish history, you know that Jew haters are barbarians who would literally carve us up with glee.  It might also be true, however, that conservatives at cocktail parties, to say nothing of Evangelical Christians, may soon be “in the same place” as Jews, at risk for their lives.  Certainly if the three twisted sisters got their way, life would not be safe for any religious group other than Muslims.

    • #71
  12. Shauna Hunt Inactive
    Shauna Hunt
    @ShaunaHunt

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Dominique Prynne (View Comment):

    As an evangelical Christian, I have absolutely no understanding of antisemitism. The churches I grew up in always treated the Jews with deference as God’s chosen people. I understand that, historically, Christians persecuted Jews due to the misguided placement of blame for the crucifixion of Jesus, but no church I grew up in subscribed to this view. I read a comment the other day (maybe Denis Prager?) that American Christians are a pretty great gift to the Jews. As one such Christian, I abhor antisemitism and those that excuse it or minimize it.

    And @susanquinn, I totally agree…turning the statement into a general rebuke of hate isn’t enough. Despicable!

    I love my Christian friends, and I’m glad to include you with them, @dominiqueprynne. And I agree, you guys are already in their sights. And there will be more.

    Christians and Jews should be allies, in my opinion. Our religions are intertwined. I have so much respect for all of you! 

    And this is horribly worded, so I want all of you to know that I appreciate your contributions to my education of other faiths!

     

    • #72
  13. Shauna Hunt Inactive
    Shauna Hunt
    @ShaunaHunt

    What makes Progressives’ anti-semitism any different than White Supremacists?

    • #73
  14. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Coolidge
    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo…
    @GumbyMark

    Shauna Hunt (View Comment):

    What makes Progressives’ anti-semitism any different than White Supremacists?

    Yep.  They deserve each other.  They have the same analysis regarding race, ethnicity, and religion being the determining factors for a suitable society.  It’s just they come to different conclusions as to who should end up on top.

    • #74
  15. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I don’t agree with the argument that the Jews were more vastly more oppressed and mistreated than anyone else throughout the centuries.

    Virtually every group has a history of centuries, if not millenia, of murder, conquest, and oppression.  The early Christians were killed by the Romans.  The Romans killed huge numbers of Celts and Greeks and Punis and others, and the Germanic and other barbarians gave it right back.  The Muslims conquered vast Christian lands and waged centuries of war against the Orthodox Greeks of the Byzantine Empire, then conquered much of the Balkans.  And then there were the Mongols, and the Persians, and the Huns.  Alexander and Xerxes and Tamarlane.  The slaughter of Protestants by Catholics.  The Reformation wars.  Cavaliers vs. Roundheads.  Napoleon and Hitler and Stalin and Mao.

    It just goes on, and on, and on.

    The Jews are close to unique in having persisted, as a separate but small ethnic group, for two millenia without a state.  I don’t know of anyone else that has done that.  For this reason, they had little or no opportunity to be the oppressor.  When they had their chance, the Jews, too, regularly oppressed, slaughtered, and enslaved their neighbors.  The bride-price that David paid for Saul’s daughter was 200 Philistine foreskins, for crying out loud.  Saul only demanded 100, but David went the extra mile.  Think about that for a minute, and cringe.

    I’ve said the following before, as well.  Jewish theology and culture brings much of this problem upon themselves.  It is a religion that excludes by its very nature.  For two millenia, the Jews have lived in other people’s countries, as a minority, declining to assimilate.  People don’t like living around others with different world-views, different morality, different customs, and different language. 

    Now that the Jews have a state, you don’t see them opening their borders to an influx of non-Jewish immigrants, whether Muslim, or Christian, or otherwise.  Nor should they.

    I understand that the Jews weren’t welcomed very much historically, but then, who was welcoming to immigrants before America?  

    It’s also a bit much, for me, to see this level of outrage over the comments of a single Congresswoman, horrid as she may be.  The nightly news hurls  false accusations of neo-Nazism, white supremacy, racism, and sexism against guys like me every single day, echoed by Democratic politicians right up to the level of Presidential candidates.  And it’s not just on the other side.  This very day, here at Ricochet, Bethany Mandel hurled such accusations at President Trump, quoting JPod.

    On the specific issue of this reprehensible Muslim Congresswoman, this is no surprise at all.  Hatred of Jews is precisely what Islam teaches, as I understand it.  Which is one of the reasons that I’m not a fan of Muslim immigration.

    • #75
  16. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Jon1979 (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    Jon1979 (View Comment):
    They’ll have to concede that some special interest groups aren’t worth pandering to, no matter how many votes they might harvest (where both Omar and Talib are in states that went narrowly against and for Trump in 2016), and the Dems’ leadership is trying to figure out a way to avoid that break.

    Anti Semitism–special interest groups…what about the Black Caucus?

    They’ve been playing photo op with Louis Farrakhan for years, but for the most part have steered away from any comments similar to his — they want his supporters to support them, but they didn’t want the firestorm that would come from parroting his talking points. Omar’s willing to take Farrakhan’s support and say the things he’s saying. If the other Democrats let her get away with it, expect some others in the CBC to become less shy about saying similar things, if there’s no price to pay for saying them.

    Paging Senator Scott, Senator Tim Scott, this is a repeat page. Report to the Washington Post with your stern editorial rebuking the CBC for condoning anti-Semitism and forgetting those civil rights workers buried in the ground. Your staff did a global find and replace on your column castigating Republicans, so the column is 75% done.

    • #76
  17. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    You’re in the same place as a conservative at a NYC cocktail party.

    Excuse me, but that’s BS. If you have the most casual acquaintance with Jewish history, you know that Jew haters are barbarians who would literally carve us up with glee. It might also be true, however, that conservatives at cocktail parties, to say nothing of Evangelical Christians, may soon be “in the same place” as Jews, at risk for their lives. Certainly if the three twisted sisters got their way, life would not be safe for any religious group other than Muslims.

    Yehoshua, first, you know that was a quote from an article, not me personally. But I think the writer was trying to say that American Jews have it so much easier, and yet we won’t stick up for Jews and Judaism. Now is the time to speak up, not just mingle politely at cocktails and not ruffle feathers. I think you would agree with that, no?

    • #77
  18. Kay of MT Inactive
    Kay of MT
    @KayofMT

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):
    I don’t agree with the argument that the Jews were more vastly more oppressed and mistreated than anyone else throughout the centuries.

    Maybe you don’t truly understand Judaism, it wasn’t just throughout the centuries, it was millennia after millennia. Our history goes back at least 4,000 years, maybe more. Yes, there were some Jews that behaved badly, but it wasn’t a tenet of our scriptures. Jews refused to assimilate as it meant accepting pagan religions if they assimilated, which by the way a great many did. The way observant Jews behave today is not the way some Jews behaved 3-4,000 years ago. If Israel were to let hoards of muslims in now, and not defend themselves there would be no Jews left in Israel. Would that make you happy? Whoever was left alive would now be muslim.  It seems to me, that you are nit-picking the history in the Hebrew writings to find the few incidences of despicable behavior, to make your case the “the Jews did it too.”

    • #78
  19. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Dominique Prynne (View Comment):
    As one such Christian, I abhor antisemitism and those that excuse it or minimize it.

    Thank you @dominiqueprynne.

    • #79
  20. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):
    I don’t agree with the argument that the Jews were more vastly more oppressed and mistreated than anyone else throughout the centuries.

    Maybe you don’t truly understand Judaism, it wasn’t just throughout the centuries, it was millennia after millennia. Our history goes back at least 4,000 years, maybe more. Yes, there were some Jews that behaved badly, but it wasn’t a tenet of our scriptures. Jews refused to assimilate as it meant accepting pagan religions if they assimilated, which by the way a great many did. The way observant Jews behave today is not the way some Jews behaved 3-4,000 years ago. If Israel were to let hoards of muslims in now, and not defend themselves there would be no Jews left in Israel. Would that make you happy? Whoever was left alive would now be muslim. It seems to me, that you are nit-picking the history in the Hebrew writings to find the few incidences of despicable behavior, to make your case the “the Jews did it too.”

    I understand extremely well.  I don’t need to nit-pick either to find bad behavior.  The Jews of the OT are generally quite horrid.  This does not make them different from the rest of us.  It is why they, and all of us, needed a savior.

    I completely agree with you that if Israel were to admit hordes of Muslims, it would cease to be Israel, and there is a high probability of slaughter.  This was a key component in my argument.  Perhaps I did not express myself well.

    People of significantly different faiths, moral codes, customs, practices, and world views do not live comfortably together.  Such people are inherently incompatible.  Hatreds tend to fester, and often for good reason.  The Jews themselves are an example.  Look at their attitude toward the Samaritans.

    If you’re trying to teach your kids, for example, to abstain from sex until marriage, it does not help to have a neighbors who are open swingers.  You teach your kids that what “those people” do is wrong.  Well, doesn’t that make them bad people?  I know the thing about hating the sin while loving the sinner, but this is a hard thing to do.

    I do not mean to single out the Jews with this criticism.  Mormons and hippies would not mix well either.  The reason that I use the Jews as my example is to illustrate the principle that if you immigrate, you must assimilate.

    But the Jews have not done this historically.  My point is that this explains much of the historic anti-Semitism.  Jewish separatism, like any other separatism, will inherently prevent the assimilation that is essential to peace and unity in a community.  The Jews in Israel would not tolerate such immigrants, so why do they expect others to have tolerated them when the situation was reversed?

     

    • #80
  21. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):

    I do not mean to single out the Jews with this criticism. Mormons and hippies would not mix well either. The reason that I use the Jews as my example is to illustrate the principle that if you immigrate, you must assimilate.

    But the Jews have not done this historically. My point is that this explains much of the historic anti-Semitism. Jewish separatism, like any other separatism, will inherently prevent the assimilation that is essential to peace and unity in a community. The Jews in Israel would not tolerate such immigrants, so why do they expect others to have tolerated them when the situation was reversed?

    You are not accurate about the Jews and assimilation. They were intentionally kept separate because people did not understand them–which came first, the chicken or the egg? They couldn’t own land; they couldn’t participate in many professions; they were seen as “other” by many civilizations. There were also many periods when they did assimilate, accepting the gods of the times, and they paid the price. In Germany, they thought that they were just like everyone else, dressing like everyone else, working like everyone else. We know the consequences of that behavior.

    Most Jews are not Orthodox; I understand people are puzzled by Orthodox Jews, especially those who dress differently, but they are a tiny part of Jewry.  But even many Orthodox communities practice outreach, including helping needy non-Jews, with no expectations. Even Hasidic Jews often are engaged in work outside the Orthodox community, so they mix with others.

    In other words, the Jews can be lost to Judaism if they join the larger community, and they can be killed. Those who hate Jews don’t need an excuse.

    • #81
  22. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Coolidge
    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo…
    @GumbyMark

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):

    I don’t agree with the argument that the Jews were more vastly more oppressed and mistreated than anyone else throughout the centuries.

    Virtually every group has a history of centuries, if not millenia, of murder, conquest, and oppression. The early Christians were killed by the Romans. The Romans killed huge numbers of Celts and Greeks and Punis and others, and the Germanic and other barbarians gave it right back. The Muslims conquered vast Christian lands and waged centuries of war against the Orthodox Greeks of the Byzantine Empire, then conquered much of the Balkans. And then there were the Mongols, and the Persians, and the Huns. Alexander and Xerxes and Tamarlane. The slaughter of Protestants by Catholics. The Reformation wars. Cavaliers vs. Roundheads. Napoleon and Hitler and Stalin and Mao.

    It just goes on, and on, and on.

    The Jews are close to unique in having persisted, as a separate but small ethnic group, for two millenia without a state. I don’t know of anyone else that has done that. For this reason, they had little or no opportunity to be the oppressor. When they had their chance, the Jews, too, regularly oppressed, slaughtered, and enslaved their neighbors. The bride-price that David paid for Saul’s daughter was 200 Philistine foreskins, for crying out loud. Saul only demanded 100, but David went the extra mile. Think about that for a minute, and cringe.

    I’ve said the following before, as well. Jewish theology and culture brings much of this problem upon themselves. It is a religion that excludes by its very nature. For two millenia, the Jews have lived in other people’s countries, as a minority, declining to assimilate. People don’t like living around others with different world-views, different morality, different customs, and different language.

    Now that the Jews have a state, you don’t see them opening their borders to an influx of non-Jewish immigrants, whether Muslim, or Christian, or otherwise. Nor should they.

    I understand that the Jews weren’t welcomed very much historically, but then, who was welcoming to immigrants before America?

    It’s also a bit much, for me, to see this level of outrage over the comments of a single Congresswoman, horrid as she may be. The nightly news hurls false accusations of neo-Nazism, white supremacy, racism, and sexism against guys like me every single day, echoed by Democratic politicians right up to the level of Presidential candidates. And it’s not just on the other side. This very day, here at Ricochet, Bethany Mandel hurled such accusations at President Trump, quoting JPod.

    On the specific issue of this reprehensible Muslim Congresswoman, this is no surprise at all. Hatred of Jews is precisely what Islam teaches, as I understand it. Which is one of the reasons that I’m not a fan of Muslim immigration.

    Gee, and here I thought the worst hate we faced was in Christian Europe, not in the Muslim world, and the worst of it happened after we tried to assimilate, starting in the country where the most assimilation had occurred.  But, then again, as you so astutely pointed we must have brought this upon ourselves.

    • #82
  23. Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo… Coolidge
    Gumby Mark (R-Meth Lab of Demo…
    @GumbyMark

    Yehoshua Ben-Eliyahu (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    You’re in the same place as a conservative at a NYC cocktail party.

    Excuse me, but that’s BS. If you have the most casual acquaintance with Jewish history, you know that Jew haters are barbarians who would literally carve us up with glee. It might also be true, however, that conservatives at cocktail parties, to say nothing of Evangelical Christians, may soon be “in the same place” as Jews, at risk for their lives. Certainly if the three twisted sisters got their way, life would not be safe for any religious group other than Muslims.

    Are you for real? Calm down.

    • #83
  24. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Multiculturalism is hard. I’m from Chicago, and I understand ethnic neighborhoods. It’s a two way street: stay in your own place Polack! or Hey dego, stay out of our neighborhood! 

    Assimilation is the long process of transforming those separate cultures into one new one. E Pluribus Unum. It’s not a sure thing, but it works well when it works. That too must be a two way street. When it doesn’t work, though, there is strife. Inevitably. Or, like in many parts of Chicago, one culture can simply replace the existing one. That happens too.

    I won’t presume to know how this dynamic has worked out in all places and times – likely a little bit of everything. Does it matter? As citizens we should favor assimilation; for those who don’t assimilate we should live and let live since there is no justification for violence simply because someone is different.

    • #84
  25. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    I won’t presume to know how this dynamic has worked out in all places and times – likely a little bit of everything. Does it matter? As citizens we should favor assimilation; for those who don’t assimilate we should live and let live since there is no justification for violence simply because someone is different.

    I don’t have easy answers either, @edg. But I think we need to strive for a balance between assimilation and respecting differences. Thanks.

    • #85
  26. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):

    I do not mean to single out the Jews with this criticism. Mormons and hippies would not mix well either. The reason that I use the Jews as my example is to illustrate the principle that if you immigrate, you must assimilate.

    But the Jews have not done this historically. My point is that this explains much of the historic anti-Semitism. Jewish separatism, like any other separatism, will inherently prevent the assimilation that is essential to peace and unity in a community. The Jews in Israel would not tolerate such immigrants, so why do they expect others to have tolerated them when the situation was reversed?

    You are not accurate about the Jews and assimilation. They were intentionally kept separate because people did not understand them–which came first, the chicken or the egg? They couldn’t own land; they couldn’t participate in many professions; they were seen as “other” by many civilizations. There were also many periods when they did assimilate, accepting the gods of the times, and they paid the price. In Germany, they thought that they were just like everyone else, dressing like everyone else, working like everyone else. We know the consequences of that behavior.

    Most Jews are not Orthodox; I understand people are puzzled by Orthodox Jews, especially those who dress differently, but they are a tiny part of Jewry. But even many Orthodox communities practice outreach, including helping needy non-Jews, with no expectations. Even Hasidic Jews often are engaged in work outside the Orthodox community, so they mix with others.

    In other words, the Jews can be lost to Judaism if they join the larger community, and they can be killed. Those who hate Jews don’t need an excuse.

    Susan, meaning no disrespect, I think that your view is inaccurate, and the separatism clearly started with the Jews.  I’m going to run out of space, so see the next comment.

    I should say that I don’t object to such separatism.  It seems necessary to me to protect and preserve any culture or faith.  But I do object to the idea that the Jews — or any other group — can simultaneously hold to separatism for themselves, while objecting when others do the same.

    [Cont’d]

     

     

     

    • #86
  27. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    [Cont’d]

    Genesis 24: 1-4:  Abraham was now very old, and the Lord had blessed him in every way. He said to the senior servant in his household, the one in charge of all that he had, “Put your hand under my thigh. I want you to swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac.”

    Genesis 28:1:  So Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him. Then he commanded him: “Do not marry a Canaanite woman.”

    Exodus 34:11-16:  [God speaking to Moses.]  “I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.”

    Deuteronomy 7:1-5:  [Moses speaking.]  When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites,Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites,seven nations larger and stronger than you— and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire.

    [Cont’d]

    • #87
  28. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    [Cont’d]

    Joshua 23:12-13:  [Joshua speaking.]  “But if you turn away and ally yourselves with the survivors of these nations that remain among you and if you intermarry with them and associate with them, then you may be sure that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the Lord your God has given you.”

    1 Kings 11:1-4:  King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.” Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 

    Ezra 9:1-2:  After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites. They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness.”

    Nehemiah 10:30:  “We promise not to give our daughters in marriage to the peoples around us or take their daughters for our sons.”

    • #88
  29. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    It seems to me that the “debate” on this thread between some on whether Jews are (1) extraordinarily persecuted and/or (2) justifiably persecuted misses the point. In America we recognize the individual, or at least we are supposed to. To deny or favor anyone solely on the basis of identity within a specific group is to make assumptions about them based on that identity that may be in error. So how or why past discrimination occurred with respect to that group is irrelevant today.

    We.know.it.to.be.wrong. It says so in our Founding documents and amendments.

    To persist in it in any official form, to have our elected officials engage in it, should be abhorrent and condemned. Failing to do so has been shown to lead us to a very bad place. That the Democrats want to use identity politics should scare every right thinking American. That it does not scare enough voters does not bode well.

    • #89
  30. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I should also point out that a similar instruction is included in the New Testament, 2 Corinthians 6:14-16:  “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?  What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?”

    St. Paul actually proceeds, after this passage, to quote Old Testament verses supporting this argument.  Thankfully, there is no instruction in the New Testament to slaughter anyone, though this has certainly not prevented Christians from doing so from time to time.

    • #90
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