Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Young, Blonde, Scandinavian Women Camp in Morocco, With Predictable Results

 

Fox News has a story about two Scandinavian women in their mid 20s who went hiking in Morocco and were killed at their campsite. One was decapitated, one was nearly decapitated. I don’t understand stories like this. Have these young women never heard of Islam? Modern western societies are fanatics about safety, even putting bicycle helmets on their kids to ride around their own yard. But then they take insane risks because of … well, I’m not sure what.

I’m a fairly experienced traveler in somewhat risky places, but I would never consider taking risks like this. They go to a Muslim country, take pictures like the one above, and presume they will be safe. I just don’t understand why these women thought they could do this.

This was not a tragedy. This was murder. The real tragedy was that it is so predictable, so routine, that it wouldn’t even be a news story if they weren’t young and beautiful. I’m not being unsympathetic. Quite the opposite. But this rosy view of reality, despite all evidence to the contrary, is remarkable. And remarkably common. And remarkably dangerous.

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  1. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    Compared to other muslim-majority countries, Morocco is one of the least dangerous.

    Heck, their homicide rate is lower than Canada’s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Between 2009 and 2016, Morocco didn’t make the top 25 for US travel warnings or the Top 25 for American deaths (Mexico holds the top spot in both rankings):

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/priceonomics/2017/03/21/ranking-the-most-dangerous-countries-for-americans-to-visit

    The archive of US travel warnings for Morocco is pretty sparse. Looks like things didn’t really start to get dangerous for tourists until recently:

    https://ma.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/security-and-travel-information/archive-alerts-messages/

    Addendum: Of course, one reason Mexico has the most American deaths is because it’s the top travel destination for Americans by a huge margin*.

    If you adjust the statistics to rank American deaths as a percentage of US visitors to that country, then Pakistan takes the top spot.

    (* Canada is the #2 travel destination for Americans and it’s not on the list of dangerous places for Americans to visit, so clearly the total number of visitors isn’t the only factor)

    • #1
    • December 19, 2018, at 10:31 AM PST
    • 9 likes
  2. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides. 

    I would not go camping on my own.

    • #2
    • December 19, 2018, at 10:38 AM PST
    • 14 likes
  3. Boss Mongo Member

    I’ll try to rally and gen a better comment later; can’t right now. This is so stupid and unnecessary and sad that it exhausts me.

    • #3
    • December 19, 2018, at 10:41 AM PST
    • 20 likes
  4. Hang On Member
    Hang OnJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    You could look at it as devolution. 

    Image result for Vikings

    She could have taken care of herself in Morocco.

    • #4
    • December 19, 2018, at 10:44 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  5. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    Right now might be an abnormally dangerous time for tourists in Morocco because it’s a stop along the road for migrants trying to get to Europe. There are currently large numbers of homeless young men camped outside the cities, most of ’em from Mali. From what I’ve seen/read, the Moroccan government is trying pretty hard to bring them to heel.

    I’m just sayin’: Yeah, right now is a dumb time to go on a camping trip in Morocco, but I’m not yet convinced that Morocco is normally a dangerous place for European tourists, and I’m not yet convinced that the danger to tourists in Morocco comes primarily from Moroccans.

    (Note: Mali is #2 on that list of US travel warnings.)

    • #5
    • December 19, 2018, at 10:47 AM PST
    • 11 likes
  6. Randal H Member

    I’ve met a fair number of Europeans, since my wife is from Germany, and it always seems they like to take adventurous vacations in places most of us wouldn’t consider. Backpacking in Central America and Turkey, bicycling in Oman, etc. are some of the vacations I’m familiar with from people I’ve known or been acquainted with. I think some of that has to do with the fact that they often have so much vacation that it becomes a burden to figure out how to spend it, plus I think their risk-averse societies cause them to seek risk-taking outlets. They tend to lead the world in things like mountain climbing, heli-skiing, wingsuit flying, etc.

    Another aspect is that because they’re Europeans, they often feel that they won’t be targets of violence. They’re largely taught that it’s those bad Americans that the world is angry at and the virtuous Europeans get a break. That’s more-or-less the feedback I got from one couple I’m acquainted with when I questioned their backpacking in Honduras (at one point and perhaps still the murder capital of the world). There may be some truth to that, as Americans are often told to profess to be Canadians when in dangerous parts of the world.

    • #6
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:01 AM PST
    • 11 likes
  7. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailorJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    There are a lot of places in this world where I wouldn’t go camping without a large armed group to back me up . And I’m not female . Sexist remark, I know .

    • #7
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:02 AM PST
    • 8 likes
  8. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. DouglasJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    Right now might be an abnormally dangerous time for tourists in Morocco because it’s a stop along the road for migrants trying to get to Europe. There are currently large numbers of homeless young men camped outside the cities, most of ’em from Mali. From what I’ve seen/read, the Moroccan government is trying pretty hard to bring them to heel.

    I’m just sayin’: Yeah, right now is a dumb time to go on a camping trip in Morocco, but I’m not yet convinced that Morocco is normally a dangerous place for European tourists, and I’m not yet convinced that the danger to tourists in Morocco comes primarily from Moroccans.

    Which raises the question: if this trouble in Morocco is coming from from migrants, why in heck is Europe letting them in?

    • #8
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:02 AM PST
    • 12 likes
  9. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White MaleJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    And you’re not even a hot 20-something Scandinavian blond.

     

    • #9
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:10 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  10. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    C. U. Douglas (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    Right now might be an abnormally dangerous time for tourists in Morocco because it’s a stop along the road for migrants trying to get to Europe. There are currently large numbers of homeless young men camped outside the cities, most of ’em from Mali. From what I’ve seen/read, the Moroccan government is trying pretty hard to bring them to heel.

    I’m just sayin’: Yeah, right now is a dumb time to go on a camping trip in Morocco, but I’m not yet convinced that Morocco is normally a dangerous place for European tourists, and I’m not yet convinced that the danger to tourists in Morocco comes primarily from Moroccans.

    Which raises the question: if this trouble in Morocco is coming from from migrants, why in heck is Europe letting them in?

    When the migrant crisis hit the zeitgeist in 2015, the majority of migrants were from Syria, Afghanistan, and the Balkans, not North Africa.

    I’ve looked around the Interwebz, but I can’t find more recent statistics to see if the demographics have shifted in the last four years. All the statistics I can find seem to end at 2015. Coincidence?

    In short, I don’t know what percentage of the migrants camped out in Morocco actually make it across the Mediterranean. It’s possible that the government of Morocco is doing everything it can to keep them away from the sea, with the unfortunate side effect of making the Moroccan countryside more dangerous.

    Morocco depends greatly on trade with Europe, and it would not be in Morocco’s best interest to lay out the red carpet for North African migrants making their way to Spain, France, and Italy.

    I suspect that Morocco deserves our sympathy more than our approbation. They’re trying to defend their border too, and they don’t have the benefit of the world’s biggest sea serving as a natural boundary.

    • #10
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:29 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  11. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western ChauvinistJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Randal H (View Comment):
    I’ve met a fair number of Europeans, since my wife is from Germany, and it always seems they like to take adventurous vacations in places most of us wouldn’t consider. Backpacking in Central America and Turkey, bicycling in Oman, etc. are some of the vacations I’m familiar with from people I’ve known or been acquainted with.

    Sounds like a bunch of bored nihilists.

    Lefties just have different priorities than we do. They know the real risk with the potential to cause human extinction is CO2 emissions. Not that there’s anything wrong with that (human extinction).

    Camping in Morocco is nothing to lose your head over. 

    /sorry. too soon?

    • #11
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:30 AM PST
    • 11 likes
  12. Robert E. Lee Member
    Robert E. LeeJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Some people use questionable judgement to their detriment.

    Oh, I could put a lot of effort into explaining in great the number of ways they could have avoided their fate with only a little thought and consideration, but otherwise intelligent people are frequently in the news for these easily avoidable situation.

    Note: I’ve edited this comment to correct my questionable judgement and intemporate language.

    • #12
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:40 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  13. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat

    @robertelee, might I politely suggest that you edit your comment? Like you, I question their judgement in this case. But in my post, I wonder what led them to this decision. I do not insult their intelligence.

    I’m not blameless here – I thought twice about posting this, even though it’s really more about the baseless idealism of western civilization than it is about the two unfortunate women.

    And it’s your comment. Say whatever you like. I mean no disrespect, and I’m not telling you what to do.

    But please consider at least adjusting your tone while referring to the deceased.

    NOTE: Thanks Robert, for pointing out one of the differences between Ricochet and Twitter.

    • #13
    • December 19, 2018, at 11:49 AM PST
    • 7 likes
  14. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Morocco is actually Africa’s #1 tourist destination. 

    There were over 10 million tourist arrivals to Morocco in 2017. French and Spanish visitors make up about 40% of tourists. Tourism accounts for over $7 billion of the Moroccan economy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Morocco

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Morocco

    Morocco cannot afford to let itself become a dumping ground for the continent’s miscreants.

    • #14
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:01 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  15. Russ Schnitzer Member

    There is a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Don’t confuse the two.

    • #15
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:04 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  16. JustmeinAZ Member

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):
    I do not insult their intelligence.

    I do. Candidates for the Darwin award.

     

    • #16
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:08 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  17. Hang On Member
    Hang OnJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Morocco used to be the place English in particular would go to smoke hash legally. Much closer than Nepal. Led Zeppelin’s Kashmir, e.g. And there was always Ab Fab and their foray to Morocco.

    But then there’s Babel, which is a great movie, for entirely different side of Morocco.

    I’ve never been to Morocco. But a co-worker went with his wife, who is very attractive. As they were walking around the bizarre in Marakech, someone asked him how many goats he would take for his wife. His wife was shocked. My friend asked, “How will I get the goats home?”

    • #17
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:16 PM PST
    • 18 likes
  18. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    What is the latest estimate of the number of Muslims that are “radicalized”? Last I heard it was 15%. If that is true, it means that 15 of every 100 Muslims want to lop off the head of the infidel. Now, at least one study I just read says that the homicide rate in the US is 4.5 per 100,000. The numbers aren’t apples to apples, of course. But if 15 out of every hundred Americans thought they’d get special treatment in heaven for lopping off the head of someone they have a theological disagreement with (and stating it that way is intentionally silly, on my part), we’d have a real problem. We simply don’t have crime at a sufficient rate to make us worry much about it in our day to day lives. So we think we can run off to another country and we are safe. We are fools. Well, some of us are.

    • #18
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:17 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  19. Manny Member

    It’s absolutely amazing. They have bought into the stupidity of multiculturalism, that all cultures are equally humane or have similar values. Let me guess, these poor women were Liberals.

    And one other thing, this is why I advocate immigration policy based on cultural compatibility. No, not all cultures are the same.

    • #19
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:30 PM PST
    • 12 likes
  20. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Spin (View Comment):
    What is the latest estimate of the number of Muslims that are “radicalized”? Last I heard it was 15%. If that is true, it means that 15 of every 100 Muslims want to lop off the head of the infidel.

    Yabbut, what’s the current estimate for Moroccans who feel that way? Not all Muslim-majority countries are created equal.

    In May of 2018 Morocco cut diplomatic ties with Iran and closed the Iranian embassy because Iran was supporting Islamic radicals in the country.

    According to this article, about 1,600 Moroccans have joined extremist groups (mainly ISIS). That’s actually a pretty low number compared to some of Morocco’s neighbours, like Tunisia where the number is over 7,000 (and keep in mind that Morocco has three times the population that Tunisia has).

    The World Almanac of Islamism lists the level of islamist activity in Morocco as “medium”.

    Morocco trains imams to go into mosques to counter the messaging of islamist radicals funded by foreign governments.

    Islamism is a threat to Morocco. The islamists really dislike the strong ties that Morocco maintains with The West.

    • #20
    • December 19, 2018, at 12:50 PM PST
    • 8 likes
  21. Caryn Thatcher
    CarynJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    OkieSailor (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Morocco’s government spends a fair bit on tourism promotion.

    Dig their tourist information web site:

    https://www.visitmorocco.com/en

    I would think hard about vacationing there. And if I went, I think I’d stick with the tour group. I would stay in the tourist areas, with my official guides.

    I would not go camping on my own.

    There are a lot of places in this world where I wouldn’t go camping without a large armed group to back me up . And I’m not female . Sexist remark, I know .

    Nothing sexist about it. It’s absolutely true that women are not as able to take care of themselves–generally speaking and without a nice equalizer (9mm, clip for 15, comes to mind)–against a larger and stronger male attacker. Against more than one, even less so. Two women camping pretty much anywhere are doing so at their own risk. Blond, pretty, and mostly uncovered in a Muslim country…well, I hate to blame the victim, but common sense dictates. 

    BTW, I have camped with just another woman, in the mountains around our hometown, in Alaska. Even there, we were appropriately cautious about who might see that we were just two young (back in the day) women alone.

    • #21
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:01 PM PST
    • 7 likes
  22. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):
    The World Almanac of Islamism lists the level of islamist activity in Morocco as “medium”.

    Well, that’s not so bad! Sounds like a good place to go camping.

    Seriously, though, as much as I respect the World Almanac of Islamism, I’ll just remind people that when that little voice inside you says, “This is a bad idea,” then you may want to listen to that little voice. You don’t always pay for your bad decisions. But sometimes you do.

    The fact that there is a “World Almanac of Islamism” suggests that there is a problem worth remarking upon, in fact, worth writing a book about. There is a problem out there. You ignore it at your peril.

    You may choose to put a coexist sticker on your Prius to show you’re above all this unpleasant reality stuff.

    But you should not choose to go camping in Morocco.

    • #22
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:04 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  23. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Caryn (View Comment):
    clip for 15

    I don’t know what this is. A clip for 15? Do you mean a 15 round magazine? Don’t make me go all gun grammar on you. ;-)

    • #23
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:07 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  24. Caryn Thatcher
    CarynJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    <clip>

    You may choose to put a coexist sticker on your Prius to show you’re above all this unpleasant reality stuff.

    Like this one?

     

    Or this?

     

    • #24
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:14 PM PST
    • 9 likes
  25. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    <clip>

    You may choose to put a coexist sticker on your Prius to show you’re above all this unpleasant reality stuff.

    Like this one?

     

    Or this?

     

    I don’t think your Prius would even run if you put that sticker on it. Your pickup truck might not miss as much, and would gain a few horsepower, though.

    • #25
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:18 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  26. Caryn Thatcher
    CarynJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Don’t have a Prius. Wouldn’t have a Prius. I don’t like silly cars–they belong in the circus, which the Prius-loving types have driven out of business. But point taken. Sadly, where I live those bumper-stickers would get my car keyed or worse. That’s why I save them for sharing in friendlier venues.

    • #26
    • December 19, 2018, at 1:22 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  27. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk andJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member