Quote of the Day – Climate Change

 

The most extreme examples of climate change were the ice ages and they were really a catastrophe for life in many parts of the world. And we don’t understand them.

We just don’t know why they started or why they come and go in a more or less periodic fashion. It’s all a big mystery. And if we don’t understand ice ages we don’t understand climate. – Freeman Dyson

The California wildfires are sparking yet another round of claims that a natural phenomena, in this case wildfires, is being caused by climate change. It is more likely caused by poor land management, the permitting the accumulation of brush in chaparral country, but who cares? Nor is this a new problem. John McPhee, spent one-third of his 1989 book The Control of Nature discussing Los Angeles’s struggle with these types of wildfires. Back then folks were worrying that man was going to trigger a new ice age rather than runaway heating.

To paraphrase Thomas Sowell’s quote about racism, climate change is like ketchup; it can be poured over practically anything – and demanding evidence makes you a climate change denier.

What climate change does demonstrate is the pernicious effect of government funding on basic science. The results end up mirroring the desires of those holding the purse strings, because only people producing the desired results get funded whether they are motivated by being true believers or because they wish to retain their rice bowls. The age of science is being supplanted by the age of government-funded superstition.

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  1. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Seawriter: What climate change does demonstrate is the pernicious effect of government funding on basic science.

    We know to be suspicious if research suggesting that smoking is harmless happens to be funded by tobacco companies, or if research on the health benefits of tea happens to be funded by tea companies.

    Of course, we can still evaluate the research by objective measures and it may turn out ok.

    Research supporting global warming theory may also be very good, but we really should have a bit of suspicion when pro-big government research is funded by government grants.

    • #1
  2. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):
    we really should have a bit of suspicion when pro-big government research is funded by government grants.

    This is a candidate for scandal of the century.

    • #2
  3. Vectorman Inactive
    Vectorman
    @Vectorman

    Seawriter: To paraphrase Thomas Sowell’s quote about racism, climate change is like ketchup; it cat be poured over practically anything – and demanding evidence makes you a climate change denier.

    A quote within a Quote of the Day – and even from Thomas Sowell!


    This post is an entry in the Quote of the Day series, the easiest way to start a conversation on Ricochet. We have 8 openings on the November Schedule. We’ve even include tips for finding great quotes, so join in the fun and sign up today!

    • #3
  4. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    What do we know with any certainty about the cause of these devastating fires?

    1. There’s fuel. Lots of it. Why? Hint: environmentalists
    2. There’s the Santa Ana winds (not new), which compress hot dry air from the Great Basin (desert) while roaring through mountain passes, causing them to become faster and dryer. 
    3. California is naturally dry (also not new)
    4. There are more people and structures to be affected by the devastation than ever
    5. They’re often directly man-caused– in this case, sparks from a power line.

    Attributing this to “climate change” is a way to both a) blame humans (by implication of the widely accepted definition of the term), and b) abdicate any responsibility of the people living, voting, and governing California. Typical lefty incoherence.

    They accuse religious believers of being irrational and then espouse the completely irrational religion of AGW. 

    • #4
  5. GLDIII Reagan
    GLDIII
    @GLDIII

    These two articles seem appropriate for this discussion.

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sd-me-climate-study-error-20181113-story.html

    *cough*(ocean temperature measurements…  gross errors in calculations… got by peer reviews anyway)*cough*

    and

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6384457/Lack-sunspots-bring-Space-Age-record-cold-weather-NASA-scientist-warns.html

    The scientists I work with, for the most part, try to keep mum and just “present the data”, but they do not deny that there is pressure to not rock the funding apple cart….

    • #5
  6. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring
    @WillowSpring

    That is a wonderful quote – and the McPhee book with its great double meaning title is well worth reading.  As he describes, the next phase of the California disaster will be the mud slides brought by the rains on unprotected hillsides.

    I think I have mentioned  the “Watts Up with That” (https://wattsupwiththat.com/ ) site before.  It is a good pointer to lots of information about Climate.  The man behind the site is Anthony Watt who is a professional weatherman and lives fairly close to the “Camp” Fire.  The site has several links to analysis of any relationship between climate and the current fires.  The best correlation seems to be to the point where logging was stopped to protect the Spotted Owl.

    A few weeks ago, I read the book “The Whole Story of Climate:  What Science reveals about the Nature of Endless Change” bu E. Kirsten Peters, who is a geologist.  The book examines the geologic evidence for Climate over the millennia.  What is a surprise is how quickly major changes have taken place.  Often in 20 or 30 years, certainly within a human lifespan.  It was a great book that really made you think about “The Control of Nature”

    • #6
  7. Misthiocracy, Joke Pending Member
    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending
    @Misthiocracy

    Gov. Jerry Brown vetoed a “wildfire management bill” in 2016:

    http://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/tn-dpt-me-lb-utility-undergrounding-20160927-story.html

    Addendum: It looks like it was really a bill to put utility lines underground.  I dunno if the most recent wildfires were started by utility lines.

    https://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/senate-bill-1463-electrical-lines-mitigation

     

    • #7
  8. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Climate science bias in a nutshell:

    Consider two scenarios:  (A) a guy approaches an attractive woman in a bar and tells her he is essentially a physics nerd who studies long term weather patterns by trying to find ways to model chaotic systems and also develop proxies for temperature in past eras; (B) another guy approaches the same woman in the same bar and tells her he is doing cutting edge research to save the planet and that his work is cited by the UN and members of Congress in the overall effort to act before it’s too late.

    Questions:  Which guy is more likely to get lucky? Which guy is more likely to get funded? Duh.

    • #8
  9. GLDIII Reagan
    GLDIII
    @GLDIII

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    Climate science bias in a nutshell:

    Consider two scenarios: (A) a guy approaches an attractive woman in a bar and tells her he is essentially a physics nerd who studies long term weather patterns by trying to find ways to model chaotic systems and also develop proxies for temperature in past eras; (B) another guy approaches the same woman in the same bar and tells her he is doing cutting edge research to save the planet and that his work is cited by the UN and members of Congress in the overall effort to act before it’s too late.

    Questions: Which guy is more likely to get lucky? Which guy is more likely to get funded? Duh.

    Depends on how long she expects the relationship to last. The first can lead to a long and happy marriage, the second will only be entertaining in the short run.

    • #9
  10. DonG Coolidge
    DonG
    @DonG

    Energy is a $10 Trillion/year business and affects every human on the planet.  Control it and you control *everything* and *everyone*. 

    Ike said it best back in 1961:

    Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

    The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

    Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

     

    This is the greatest hoax ever perpetuated upon humanity. 

    • #10
  11. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):
    I dunno if the most recent wildfires were started by utility lines.

    That is the current belief – a spark from a power line is thought to have started these fires.

    • #11
  12. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    DonG (View Comment):

    Energy is a $10 Trillion/year business and affects every human on the planet. Control it and you control *everything* and *everyone*.

    Ike said it best back in 1961:

    Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

    The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

    Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

     

    This is the greatest hoax ever perpetuated upon humanity.

    This is the analogue to Ike’s “military industrial complex” which is virtually never cited, and is at least as relevant to our current woes.

    • #12
  13. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    I imagine the golden hills of California have been burning off and on since Pangaea. 

    • #13
  14. John Hanson Coolidge
    John Hanson
    @JohnHanson

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):
    I dunno if the most recent wildfires were started by utility lines.

    That is the current belief – a spark from a power line is thought to have started these fires.

    At least the Camp fire was likely caused by this, the other fires burning in the state, likely have other causes that I have not seen.   

    I had a slight personal interest in the Camp fire, because my parents retired to a home on the upper ridge above Paradise, and lived there until they passed in 1998.  The spot where they lived appears to be about 1/4 mile outside the fire area where structures burned, (according to detail Butte County incident maps as of 11/12/2018) showing where structures burned.  

    The area was heavily forested, and local logging was essentially stopped or at least made uneconomic by Government permitting changes in the 1990s.   Claims of climate change are not justified by the evidence.  Droughts of similar (and much longer) durations have happened in the state from the scientific studies of prior climate.  The overall state climate is semi-arid, and even northern California is subject to periodic droughts.  The longest I experienced when I lived there (In CA) was in the 1980s and it was worse than the current one. 

    • #14
  15. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    The global warming folks don’t make their case as convincingly as their critics, it’s not even close, so the interesting thing is the political, cultural impact the warmers have.    It’s like everything else coming from the what we call the left and it’s scary.  They’re winning because expressing the truth can be costly while going along with the cultural mob is either harmless or rewarding.  Marxists would call it the correlation of forces and if not vigorously opposed they win.  

    • #15
  16. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    GLDIII (View Comment):

    These two articles seem appropriate for this discussion.

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sd-me-climate-study-error-20181113-story.html

    *cough*(ocean temperature measurements… gross errors in calculations… got by peer reviews anyway)*cough*

    and

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6384457/Lack-sunspots-bring-Space-Age-record-cold-weather-NASA-scientist-warns.html

    The scientists I work with, for the most part, try to keep mum and just “present the data”, but they do not deny that there is pressure to not rock the funding apple cart….

    “Our error margins are too big now to really weigh in on the precise amount of warming that’s going on in the ocean,” Keeling said. “We really muffed the error margins.”

    Well, no kidding, muffy.

    Confirmation bias.  If you got the outcome you were expecting, you don’t look real hard like at the underlying numbers and assumptions.

    • #16
  17. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    GLDIII (View Comment):

    These two articles seem appropriate for this discussion.

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sd-me-climate-study-error-20181113-story.html

    *cough*(ocean temperature measurements… gross errors in calculations… got by peer reviews anyway)*cough*

    and

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6384457/Lack-sunspots-bring-Space-Age-record-cold-weather-NASA-scientist-warns.html

    The scientists I work with, for the most part, try to keep mum and just “present the data”, but they do not deny that there is pressure to not rock the funding apple cart….

    Why is it that “scientists” always seem to pick these almost perfectly rounded off numbers when they set targets?

    According to the most recent IPCC report, climate emissions need to be cut by 20 percent by 2030 and then zeroed out by 2075 to keep warming from exceeding 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial levels.

    Authors of the recent study had previously claimed that emissions levels in coming decades would need to be 25 percent lower to keep warming under that 2-degree cap.

    Why not 23.5?  19.7?  If they’re so knowledgeable and confident in the number, why is it always a 10%, 20%, 30%?  These scienticians are supposed to be good at math, right?

    • #17
  18. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    Gov. Jerry Brown vetoed a “wildfire management bill” in 2016:

    http://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/tn-dpt-me-lb-utility-undergrounding-20160927-story.html

    Addendum: It looks like it was really a bill to put utility lines underground. I dunno if the most recent wildfires were started by utility lines.

    https://moorlach.cssrc.us/content/senate-bill-1463-electrical-lines-mitigation

    This type of grid improvement effort is common, but for areas where fire is a higher probability, vegetation management is a critical piece in fire reduction.

    For a comparison, in the east/northeast, vegetation management is something commonly paid for in your utility rates, but often used to pare back over-hanging limbs, that tend to break during hurricanes, snow weight, and ice storms.

    Same idea, but used to mitigate the possibility of ignition near electrical equipment.

    • #18
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Only slightly apropos, but California just passed Measure W which raises bond money for water management. 

    Well, ok, but we’ve been paying taxes all along for water management and we tax all the newcomers for it too. 

    So where’s the water management we’ve already paid for? It might be time to dig up some dead politicians and re-embalm them with tar and feathers. 

    • #19
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