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The Khashoggi Case Demands Context
I found this interesting:
In high school, Jamal Khashoggi had a good friend. His name was Osama bin Laden.
“We were hoping to establish an Islamic state anywhere,” Khashoggi reminisced about their time together in the Muslim Brotherhood. “We believed that the first one would lead to another, and that would have a domino effect which could reverse the history of mankind.”
Hmm. Maybe this man was not, in fact, a fearless champion of free speech. Maybe there is more going on. Maybe sometimes, the United States is allied with nations who also are bad actors. Maybe things are more complex than the media want to make them out to be.
Closing quote:
Before the media and the politicians who listen to it drag the United States into a conflict with Saudi Arabia over a Muslim Brotherhood activist based on the word of an enemy country still holding Americans hostage, we deserve the context.
And we deserve the truth.
The media wants the Saudis to answer questions about Jamal Khashoggi. But maybe the media should be forced to answer why the Washington Post was working with a Muslim Brotherhood propagandist?
The real mystery isn’t Khashoggi’s disappearance. It’s why Republicans aren’t asking those questions.
The media’s relationship with Khashoggi is far more damning than anything the Saudis might have done to him. And the media should be held accountable for its relationship with Osama bin Laden’s old friend.
Nothing is every simple as the headlines want them to be.
Published in General
Down the rabbit hole.
It may have been to the USA benefit to have him taken out, and nobody really wants to say “Thank G-d, and thank you.”
Yes, but who else was Osama Bin Laden’s friend back in the day? The CIA. Just because Khashoggi was friends with him in High School doesn’t mean he supported it when Bin Laden went full terrorist with Al Qaeda.
Or maybe he did. That’s the problem with dealing with the Middle East – it really is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.
The other problem in this case is that there’s no way to know who is really responsible. Could it be MBS? Rogue agents? Someone in the Saudi government trying to discredit MBS or damage the relationship with the U.S.? Could Turkey be involved? There’s no way to know who’s telling the truth – although the correct answer is probably nobody.
Yeah, I hate those reds. It could have been rogue agents, too, though.
I believe Nick is right on this.
I’d blame autocorrect but it’s just my not proofreading carefully. Nice catch.
Paul Mirengoff on the Post:
It’s very simple:
During the Cold War, when a newspaper discovered that a journalist on its staff was hired by the CIA to do things to impede the spread of Communism – which sought to overthrow the US government or at least destroy its culture to bring about revolution – the newspaper was embarrassed. Or supposed to act like it.
Today, when a journalist is known to advocate the overthrow of the US Constitution and replace it with a theocratic form of government, it is a resume enhancement and the newspaper is proud of him/her.
I think the above paragraph pretty much sums it up. That and also why should we care? Khashoggi was not an American citizen. Turkey has gone out of its way to show hostility to the USA. Rubio, Corker, Graham and, of course, a host of Democrats are trying to make this something akin to the assassination that started WWI. Why? They wouldn’t want to force Trump into making an ill conceived move would they? No, never ever that.
All of the above does not excuse the torture/murder of a Washington Post journalist. Trump’s refusal to hold the Saudi’s accountable emphasizes the critical need for a check on Trump in Congress.
He has not refused. Things are happening. Give it time. Murder convictions don’t happen in a minute, nor do people get send to jail for life in a minute. The guy disappeared just sixteen days ago, and all we have are a couple of facts and lots of smoke.
I have had this “fix” as well.
Blaming AutoCorrect? We never believed it anyway.
This statement is just another reason for me to believe the entire incident is a ruse. Another excuse to blame Trump for something…anything, just blame Trump.
I am still trying to figure this all out. I have not come to a hard position: Trump bad vs Trump good. (With the real possibility that this is just a messed up deal where there are no “right” answers)
That said, what do you think Congress could do to “check” Trump. What law would they pass? What can Congress do about this murder, short of making a declaration of war or cutting off any funding that goes to the Saudis. Are the negative impacts of that worse that the wishsy washy response of Trump?
With all due respect, I think that you are being naive.
I believe that there is even a tape recording of his fingers being cut off as they were dismembering him while he was still alive.
The question is not if he was murdered, the question is if the Crown Prince knew of it, or if he authorized it, not unlike the King of England exclaiming “will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?”
This is reminiscent of Trump denying Russia’s involvement in the 2016 election. Not credible. And emphasizes the need for a check.
I am not. The information is coming from Turkey, the Saudis main rival as a Sunni center of power in the region. I suspect everyone, and when one has reason to suspect everyone, one should not act in haste.
Treasury Secretary Mnuchin just indicated that he would no longer be attending a large economic summit in Saudi. To me it seems that the administration is trying to figure this thing out. Not ignoring it.
What does holding the Saudi’s responsible look like? Is it sanctions or war? What is the appropriate response?
Yes, you are!
No, I’m not!
Yes, you are!
No, I’m not!
Yes, you are!
No, I’m not!
Okay, if you want the last word, you can have it. (But, yes you are!)
Pondering. Pondering. Pondering.
There are reports of a tape. And they have requested access to it. Which is normal and appropriate for any investigation.
How many set-ups must you see before developing a sense of skepticism? We don’t even know the truth in our own amateur political deceptions. What does this have to do with Trump, I mean in a sense of some wrongdoing by Trump that needs checking?
I think that the naive position would be jumping to conclusions, which is exactly what Arahant is arguing against doing. Unless we get our own investigative teams there, all of our data is coming from sources that are… less than trustworthy. Everyone has an agenda and the naive position is to assume that any of them are favorable to our interests. While it’s possible that some of them aren’t actively working against our interests, that would be the best we can reasonably hope for.
Some of them may in fact be saying true things, but it’s not likely to be out of a principled dedication to telling the truth.
Citizens and journalists should raise these issues, but hopefully the Administration wont. I wish they’d just stop talking about it one way or the other until we know what happened. Then the issue will be not to be stampeded by the mob into policies that harm the US.
A guy nobody’s really heard of before gets murdered, and you want the President to be such an instant expert on the situation that he should go charging into Saudi Arabia demanding justice?
If he did that, you’d criticize him for jumping in without full knowledge of the situation. In fact, I’m sure you don’t have full knowledge of the situation either. Only what you read in the media. And we know how much we should trust them . . .
As Liz Shield wrote this morning . . .
Maybe some are looking (or hoping) for a complete misreading of the situation like the Obama Administration did with Benghazi.
I am rather appalled that a Lawyer would be a “jump on the bandwagon for justice before the facts are in” sort of guy.
I think we need to see what the facts are.
I will say this about the Saudis:
One last thing @garyrobbins:
Thanks to Trump, we are the world’s #1 producer of energy, which means we can ultimatily put more pressure on the Saudis.
So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
Come’on, man. We have quite a number of legal beagles misbehaving these days. As a matter of fact, they are responsible for some of our most serious criminal activity that goes unpunished.
Young man, go to your room.
How did the Turks get the tape? For you to accuse anyone of being naive is truly laughable.
I think that Trump is great on regulations which have lead us to the #1 producer of energy.