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#MeToo – Why Aren’t I Traumatized?
Is there anybody who doesn’t have a #MeToo story of some greater or lesser degree of severity/significance? The Kavanaugh circus – the latest drama in what’s been dubbed the #MeToo moment – has got me thinking about it for a number of reasons.
First, I’m just the guy’s (Kavanaugh’s) vintage and I can relate to life as a late teen/young man in the early/mid 80s. There’s been a lot of talk about that, as though Porky’s, Revenge of the Nerds, and Sixteen Candles were the lived experience of every high school or college aged guy alive at the time.
Second, while my high school experience bears no relationship whatsoever to any of those movies or any of the lurid stories about Kavanaugh, my college experience does. I joined a fraternity at the University of Minnesota as a freshman in 1982 and I’ve said many times since then that that experience has lead me to understand how Alexander the Great could have gotten a bunch of juiced up, horned up young men to go out and conquer Asia. We were truly out of control and in need of some adult supervision. In hindsight, it would be surprising if there weren’t far too many #MeToo stories from the parties we used to throw regularly. Had I been heterosexual, there’s an excellent chance I’d have been a perpetrator. I certainly drank enough; as much as Kavanaugh’s accused of and more than he admits to.
So I’m inclined to think that among late teens and young men and women in the early 80s, binge drinking was common and at least some clumsy, handsy, drunken version of what’s now considered sexual assault was too. Many people my age know this from their own experience. It’s what gives at least the Ford and Ramirez accusations against Kavanaugh their plausibility (and distinguishes them from the Swetnick accusation). He may not have done it, but it’s not like it wasn’t done. It was. A lot.
But I have a question, and it’s a question I’d never dare to pose anywhere else on the internet other than Ricochet. The question is: what’s the big deal?
You see I’m not only a mid-50s former fratboy who would, but for his sexual orientation, almost certainly have “committed a Kavanaugh” in his youth, I’m also a former (can you be a former?) “victim” of a #MeToo event. I won’t bore you with the details, but suffice it to say I was fresh out of high school, decidedly a virgin, she was someone I worked with at a summer job, twice my age. She got me very, very drunk (I was just discovering alcohol; high school athletics had kept my crowd away from it before that), and she took advantage. Sobered and hung over the next day, I was pretty freaked out. It was, coincidentally, the summer of 1982.
But today, 36 years later, I can talk about it without any fear or anxiety. Nothing about the layout of my home has been affected by the experience. If she were nominated to the Supreme Court and I was asked about it, honestly, I think my answer would be that it was no big deal. Not that it wasn’t at the time. To me it was. I felt violated. I was worried about STDs. I think it caused me months of stress and anxiety. What she did to me was wrong. But some days life’s a crap sandwich. That wasn’t the first bad experience I ever had nor was it (or will it be) the last. Me? I pick myself up and move on. It’s not like I lost a limb. I got over it.
So the first question is, is this a guy thing? Is this just less of a big deal to men than to women?
In many ways (the details of which I’ll spare you) the experience I had was quite a bit more “serious” than what Professor Ford describes. But I was an 18-year-old boy, incapacitated by alcohol yes, but otherwise at least her physical equal. I’m sure 15-year-old Professor Ford couldn’t have said that of 17-year-old Judge Kavanaugh. Does that shape how we experience these events and how we remember them and how (and whether) they scar us?
Or is it our wiring? Are women, as the sex that produces one egg a month and takes primary care for child rearing, just wired to be more selective about their sexual encounters and as a result more violated by an unwanted one?
Am I just weird? Me, personally? Do most men who’ve had experiences like mine suffer lifelong trouble like Professor Ford claims to have? Maybe I’m a sociopath. Or suffering false consciousness. Could therapy help me get in touch with the wounded, victimized child within?
On the other hand, how many women who’ve had to fight off a drunken lout manage to get over it? Is Professor Ford’s lifelong disability the norm? Or is she a fragile flower suffering over an event that most women would be resilient enough to move past? Is her claim of trauma even all that plausible? Or is it just too politically incorrect to doubt it?
If anyone who’s been on the receiving end of a #MeToo experience has any thoughts on these questions I’d be interested. And if your name and/or avatar doesn’t make it clear, it would be helpful if you included your sex in your answer.
Published in General
Cato, I also said “What’s the big deal?” and like you and probably a whole lot of others, I have some #metoo stories of my own. And none of them caused me to become a tragic haunted figure or to need therapy. None. And as I wrote elsewhere, while I was in college I was propositioned by a married man a lot older than I who ended up a Reagan appointee years later. I said no, and he actually took a little academic revenge on me for it.
But did I “come forward” and try to destroy his life? No. I did not. And I have nothing but contempt for women who do that. For one thing, I thought the feminists want us to be strong women who can do anything a man can do, not pathetic weak victims who need years of therapy after every incident. I mean get over it.
I don’t know that I’d say I have contempt for all women who come forward. I think it depends on a bunch of things. I think it’s worth the public knowing that Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are cads with long histories of abuse and no regard for half the human race. But I also think that the definition of “entitled” is not “white prep school boy,” it is (whoever you are) believing you’re so special that you should be able to go through life without ever finding yourself uncomfortable, put out, or modestly mistreated. There’s just too many of us humans living too close together for that to be realistic.
Yes. of course I agree that Bill Clinton’s escapades merit exposing for sure. He wasn’t a teenager and he was in office when he committed these acts. I definitely want to know about things of that nature.
But my main objection to the sort of thing Dr. Ford did is that it trivializes true sexual abuse. She and the Democrats who used her should be ashamed.
A brave and well written post, Cato. Thanks for taking a chance in this overheated climate to bring up something as intimate as that.
That I think gets at what I was talking about. Obviously I wasn’t there, but as I understand her story, I doubt forcible rape was imminent. Certainly even she doesn’t claim it happened. The behavior Kavanaugh is accused of isn’t something I’d want to model for young men, but it’s also most likely not the behavior of a felon. Somewhere between saintliness and criminality there needs to be room for things like boorishness and bad judgment.
LOL. I am completely unbothered by telling my story Gary. I wouldn’t, however, put my real name on my questions in the wider world. THAT would take courage.
Let’s stretch this a little. What about other kinds of abuse? Having your dignity attacked in various ways, like the value of your work denigrated in a group project, or snide remarks made in front of collegues about your weight or other characteristics, some within remedy, some not …basically, bullying? The circle the wagons (democrats and press) attack on Kavanagh looks like one of those, because he is of the “wrong flavor.” It is a ritualistic a tribal ostracizing, as another thread was discussing about the uniformity socialists require. And it is more than just the rejection of anyone not willing to be under their group control; it is a forward terror tactic lesson that a life led with traditional values is a risk factor and not a road to acceptance in high office. In other words, there is no such thing as a “metoo” moment of abuse at the hands of a liberal gang. But there sure is in work life, on campuses, and now in Senate hearings.
I think it is probably more of a big deal for women in some ways—sexual violence is generally committed against us by persons who are larger and stronger, and (especially in the 80s)it was much more common as a form of street violence than it seems to be today, when more rapists are apparently sitting at home watching streaming porn. Blechh.
But I have a male friend who was molested by his little league coach, and another who was raped by a stranger in a park, truly horrendous experiences that definitely had lasting effects which were, in some ways, worse because it was even less okay to talk about. (The guy who got molested by his coach never told anyone about it until he told me, and he was thirty-five or forty years old by then).
Having said that, I agree with you that there is something genuinely weird about the persistence and intensity of the “trauma” that Professor Ford claims to have suffered. Feminists seem to be convinced that women are a very fragile bunch: Our husbands intimidate us into voting for Republicans, or we subconsciously experience “internalized misogyny” and, zombie-like, vote for Trump. And one unpleasant experience in 1982 can make one a complete mess thirty four years later.
I don’t buy it, largely because I know wayyyyy too many “survivors” of actual rapes, near-rapes, sexual assaults and molestations (myself among them) who often needed help dealing with the aftermath, and certainly retain unpleasant memories, but they somehow manage to function, earn a living, sustain marriages, raise children, fly on airplanes and describe their experiences without their chins quivering and their eyes filling with helpless tears.
I know. I sound unsympathetic. But honestly, ladies! We’re supposed to be tough enough to go into battle against the Taliban, for God’s sake! One dumb drunk waggles his doo-dads in your (also drunk) face, and you’re all to pieces three decades later?
Well, I’m sorry it happened to you.
It was probably here on Ricochet I read either get better or get bitter. Ford if telling the truth got bitter. RA and Cato got better. This whole Kavanaugh thing has had me remembering way back in my life. The short version is I am a quick healer.
I’ve never understood the statement “he/she/they got me drunk”. You hear it frequently. I always want to ask if the person was tied to a chair while someone poured alcohol into their mouth.
This whole thing has women rummaging around in their past for something – anything – they can use to “come forward” with that will gain them entry into the Victim Club. I’m just so fed up.
It seems to me (assuming somebody did this to her) the fact that even she says she wasn’t actually raped makes it weird she is still struggling with it so much so many years later. Especially when she can’t remember pertinent details.
It’s a fair question and yes, I consumed the drinks under my own power. When I say “she got me drunk” what I mean is that she set out the evening with the purpose of ensuring that I got drunk so she could do what she wanted, she provided the (tempting) liquor, and I was young and inexperienced enough not to fully appreciate the effect it would have on me. She appreciated it all too well. That doesn’t entirely negate my responsibility for what ensued, but I think she bears the lion’s share of it.
FWIW, and I didn’t put it in the post, but I later learned that this was a pattern. I was not the only naive young thing she did it to. There’s zero doubt in my mind she knew what she was doing and the young men mostly didn’t until it was done.
doo-dads?
Anecdotally, I think young people drink to excess far more today than they did when I was in college in the early 80s – especially women.
I don’t know if she knew you were gay, but if she did that to several others, who probably weren’t gay, this must have been some kind of thrill for her. It certainly seems that a reasonably attractive woman of 36 or so wouldn’t have much trouble pursuing sex with many 18 year-olds sober.
I have no hard evidence for this, but it’s obvious to me that women are harmed more by these experiences than men.
That said, I’ve had more than a few women confide in me (apparently I’m easy to talk to) about unwanted sexual encounters, spanning the gamut from “mere” groping to rape at gun point. Some of them are still struggling with it, decades after the event; others seem amazing unaffected by what happened to them. And there isn’t necessarily a correlation between the severity/brutality of the event and how these women were affected by it. One of them was drugged by her boss and “came to” with him in the act. It ruined her friendship with the guy, but she continued to work for him for years. When I used the word rape when we were discussing it, she was surprised, as she’d never even thought about it in those terms.
One thing is for sure, and that is that people are different. Statements like: 1)That’s not how a victim acts; 2) She would have told someone before now; 3) It happened to me and I’m over it; she should be too; 4) Why didn’t she make a police report?; 5) Why can she remember this detail, but not that detail?; etc. are made out of ignorance.
I have also been ‘sexually assaulted’ by a few young ladies and was seduced by at least one older woman. I suspect the size and strength advantage takes most of the terror out of it for most men. On the other hand, there are rare circumstances of women drugging and violently violating men.
You may laugh but no – it is not fun to have your ‘package’ checked by somebody that you’ve never met.
Where is the #WASPMeToo4men
I just want female teachers who rape their male students to get the same prison term as the male teachers who rape female students get.
Not really, but why the double standard if there are no differences between the sexes? ProgLogic = pretzel logic I suppose.
@catorand I think the difference is due to personality (and therefore, at least in part, to gender).
Re big disqualifying deal – yes. If she lied about that TODAY, or continued to drink and then forget what she’d done while drunk, would you want her voice on the Supreme Court till she died?
I’m not sure I understand your question @Zafar. I think lying under oath is a big deal for a judicial nominee, although we’ve had justices profess not to know how they’d vote on a Roe redux for years now and that’s somehow a lie we just accept as necessary. So I guess not all lies are disqualifying.
But the real crux of my confusion is that if she didn’t remember having done it, and then denied it, would the denial even be a lie? I honestly don’t think an untruth is disqualifying if it’s not a knowing untruth. And I’m not sure I’d even call it a lie.
I don’t think it’s a lie either, but ongoing drunk black outs would be a disqualifier imho.
So would lying about them happening in the past. Of is that too severe?
I take your point re some lies that are expected, nay, demanded!
“Remember Jerry. It’s not a lie if you believe it.”
I definitely don’t think drunken blackouts 30-35 years ago as a student, by themselves, are disqualifying. Maybe that’s because I’m guilty of having had them, and know many, many people who have. Even the event I described in this post is one I had only pieces of memory of the next day. And I’d go so far as to guess most of the people I’ve known in my life have had blackouts at one time or another. So I just don’t see drinking to that kind of excess in your youth as necessarily a huge deal if it’s not now your habit. I definitely wouldn’t disqualify someone for the Court on character grounds just because of that kind of excess that long ago. (It would disqualify the entire state of Wisconsin.)
Lying about them having happened (under oath in a Senate confirmation hearing – not just anywhere, anytime) is a different matter. I’m really bothered by any public official who doesn’t take lying under oath seriously (*cough, Clinton, cough*), and it’s even worse if it’s a judge. I’d go so far as to say it probably would be disqualifying, although how you’d prove that someone had a memory blackout 35 years ago I don’t know. Having had them, I can tell you the only person who really knows is you. Unless maybe you, I don’t know, you wrote it in your yearbook or something.
To the extent that applies to the Kavanaugh confirmation, I think there’s more to say on the subject about the perverse incentives holding such a lie against him in these circumstances would create, but I’m not going to take this thread in that direction.
Hi Cato!
Most WOMEN I know and many I have read on the subject who had been actually assaulted or even raped almost always roll their eyes at Ford’s account (which i found relatively sincere, although not holding up to scrutiny in the details). One close friend, who was at the minimum molested at church as a preteen or teen, said it is impossible in her opinion that Ford remembers no details. She said in her case she can remember every tiny detail, including what she was wearing, exactly where she was, etc etc. I think more than anything it really seems that this entire charade by the senate dems minimizes and insults any woman who was actually assaulted.
So much of the dem’s supposed outrage is based on our believing that a kid who was a 3 sport athlete AND straight A student was also an out of control drunk. Where it breaks down is that when he/they describe his alleged outrageous behavior there are a lot of us that say “oh yeah, that sounds about typical”. Have those idiots forgotten that many of us were also in high school in the 80’s?? The most hilarious refutation of his claim that he was a virgin in high school and for years after was when they dragged out some former roommate in college who said Kavanaugh had claimed otherwise in their dorm room. Ok, brace yourselves ladies………teenage boys tend to embellish their sexual prowess. None of them want to say they are the least experienced in the room and expose themselves to the teasing that will follow. Like so many things in this entire production I am shouting…..OH COME ON
Ongoing drunk blackouts thirty four years ago?
Cato’s addition—that his experience wasn’t unique—is significant: these are patterned behaviors. Dozens of women have attested to Kavanaugh’s impeccable behavior toward them, including his former high school friends and girlfriends.
I’d be willing to bet big money that if three high school boys who behaved as Kavanaugh et al are supposed to have done, they would have talked about it. There and then. If they were total [CoC]s, they’d brag and laugh. If they were relatively normal, if callow, youth they would make jokey attempts to justify themselves. The disinhibiting effects of alcohol are not selective.
One way or another, everyone would’ve known.
I remember my high school days, high school parties, high school boys of exactly (I was in DC) Kavanaugh’s make and model. Even the generally good-hearted did stupid things.
I remember an epic bottle-rocket battle in Fort Reno park (Fort Reno parties were named in the infamous Yearbook!). There was some sort of German consulate near our school; we made a “thing” our of drunkenly performing the Hitler salute at the bored security guard behind the glass doors, and sometimes (when the guard was absent) the boys peed. Et….embarrassingly…cetera.
My future husband (who was also in DC though running in different circles) took a bet that he could drive his Volkswagon beetle between two traffic bollards: he lost the bet and the beetle. His high school year book is filled with puerile scribbling of young people for whom every cliche comes newly minted and sex and drink are new fascinations.
There is no evidence—none at all—that Kavanaugh did anything even remotely resembling what he is accused of. That’s the bottom line.
By the way: when it comes to my #metoo moments and those of everyone I know who has had them, additional evidence to support my accusation could be produced, even thirty-four years later. Witnesses, contemporaneous statements to therapists, diary entries and so on. Moreover, I could detail the effects that sexual abuse had on me—diagnosed PTSD, identifiable “triggers” and evidence of improvement over time with therapy and—eventually—medication.
And I still count myself has having survived and thrived, better not bitter, etc. etc. So no: I don’t believe Dr. Ford. Not without evidence. Some—any?—evidence.
By the way, Cato is offering us a slightly different bunny trail to wander off on: If a woman’s mental health can be permanently shattered by a single unpleasant experience of drunken groping at a high school party, maybe girls should not be permitted to attend high school parties. Or any parties. They shouldn’t be wandering around in workplaces unchaperoned, or maybe our place is really in the nice, safe home after all?
That is, maybe all those traditions that kept women apart from men really did protect delicate females from the awful effects of interacting, socializing and working beside ordinary boys and men. Perhaps these should be revived and strengthened, even. The price of our liberation has evidently been much too high.
Well stated. I’d put this up as a status on my facebook page, but I don’t need the hate.
Cato, thanks for this conversation and your complete honesty. I am motivated to respond in kind.
My wife is overly caught up in this Kavanaugh travesty. Her sense of the injustice is at an extreme. She’s watching all of the cable TV (over my objections) discussions of it (everyone says the same thing over and over) and getting even more enraged. She just posted on FaceBook about it and, surprise, received much blowback. People read things into her words that weren’t there (Shocked again!, not).
From this episode and our follow up discussions, I can affirm your perceptions. Those of us in our mid-to-late 50’s and older will generally have the same reaction as you. Men can compartmentalize it much easier than women, but even my wife shared that she too was physically attacked in her youth (but not raped) and that while she hid and buried it, it did not define her. She got over it. She admits that it never really left (where I think men can forget easier), but she has no animosity and would not accuse the perpetrator 30+ years later. They were in high school! She acknowledged her naive complicity in getting into a situation where that might lead.
The other insight is our daughters. They were not happy with Mom’s FaceBook post. They are good kids and have only responded privately to Mom and do want to talk further with her. They shared that they were offended and hurt. I think we will find out more but suffice it to say that I do believe that 20-something women obviously do have real #metoo stories. I am sure that there are horrible ones too that were not prosecuted out of fear. I am also sure that some of these events were what our generation would describe today as “no big deal”. Today, there is such a quickness to take offense and be a victim that there is no room for any self awareness of owning anything related to our behavior that may have allowed the situation to occur. That guilt is buried too.
Anyways, I affirm your ‘I am not traumatized’ perception. Secondly, it is my perception that 20-something women are decidedly not there. Some with very good reasons, and some just because they are creatures of this culture that too readily take on the snowflake victim mantle. It is the age of no accountability or consequences and the age of participation trophies.
We need to find ways to bridge this gap. Maybe honest conversations are the best path forward.
You mean like in Saudi Arabia ?