Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Truth, Justice, and the American Way: Part 1a Andy v. Robert

 

Speculative comments on the future of the GOP post-Trump — being better with any POTUS other than Trump, moving forward in better condition after Trump exits (via the 25th Amendment, impeachment, voted out, or natural end of term, etc.), Mike Pence being a boy scout above reproach (and therefore not subject to actions similar to what’s happened to or been proposed for removing the president) — reminded me of an excellent article recently penned by Andrew McCarthy. I recommend for an excellent clear description of proper grounds to assign a Special Counsel. I’ll weave some of Andy’s points into some of my own thoughts on the subject.

What’s happened to Trump before, during, and after the election is not about the law; it’s not really about Trump. It’s about power; specifically in this case, the power to promote or halt the Leftist agenda. As Trump’s conservative successes multiply (and Leftists’ diminish), so does resistance against him. Any other individual replacing Trump, boy scout or not, who also slows the Leftist roll will experience resistance in proportion to their success. Other GOP may espouse similar basic goals as Trump, but will they be as successful achieving them? History indicates it’s been years since some of the Trump administration’s accomplishments have been repeated if ever, and not since Reagan (and many before him) has there been another US president as successful in impeding — even reversing some of — the Leftist agenda as Trump has done the last 20 months.

I should disclose that at the time of Robert Mueller’s appointment as Special Counsel, I wanted to find out the truth about the Russian collusion allegations, and hoped he would conduct a fair and thorough investigation of those events given the gravity of the uncharted territory we were in and the glowing recommendation he received from many Republicans.

Sixteen months later and the phrase “witch hunt” is inadequate to describe the many known abuses of truth, justice, and the American way — let alone the possible unknown abuses (one has the impression tip of an iceberg may apply). When you consider a political candidate such an unacceptable threat it becomes okay to subvert the law/agency protocols so that you (as agents/representatives of the US government)

  • send people to entrap/spy on members of his campaign,
  • submit spurious applications to obtain warrants to surveil private citizens connected to that candidate,
  • leak internal government memos to the press after being fired for cause with the stated purpose of initiating an investigation for which you know there is no crime that could/should be handled by regular DOJ staff,
  • create a media echo chamber to whip up enough hysteria that it makes elected representatives of his own party push for investigating that candidate without naming a crime on which to base such an investigation,
  • draft an authorization memo with a scope kept secret from Congress and the public
  • a scope so broad that it allows Counsel and his team (several of whom would likely have to recuse themselves for their conflicts of interest in any other case but this one apparently,) to
    • violate near sacrosanct legal tenets like attorney-client privilege and search/seizure protections, and
    • subvert long-held federal guidelines against excessively aggressive enforcement tactics normally reserved for drug lords/mafia kingpins, and overly zealous arm twisting (threaten family members, prosecute knowingly giving different answers as to timeline of events with jail time) to get confessions/plea agreements,

Is there much else you would not do?

Claims of “Mueller’s not done” and may yet find something is grasping at straws when one considers it’s 16 months in and no charges related to the investigation’s ostensible purpose have been filed against the campaign despite the enormous amount of ill-gotten material Mueller’s amassed via the commando raids conducted at his team’s instigation. Think commando raids is too strong, a bit hyperbolic? Ask Manafort’s wife or kids how they feel about being rousted at gunpoint early in the morning; or the GSA employees who, when the GSA director who guaranteed the Trump campaign privacy died, were forced to hand over computers and streams of Trump campaign documents/files to demanding badge-waving FBI agents flouting the privacy agreement (and US campaign precedent).

“Mueller is just doing his job and needs to be allowed to finish” is not good enough. What I’ve described is true, it’s wrong on so many levels, and it needs to stop now. As Andrew McCarthy notes, DOJ having identified no crime or no basis for Donald Trump having conspired to commit a crime, the Republican-controlled Congress should be demanding an explanation for why there is a criminal investigation of the President.

(continued in Part 1b here)

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  1. Columbo Member

    • #1
    • September 12, 2018, at 5:08 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  2. WI Con Member
    WI Con Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    A well laid out (set) of posts. I’ve never seen anything like this. It has upended my belief in our government, not in a positive way. Has it been this way for decades? Have I been naïve all this time? 

    Was listening to a Federalist podcast (catching up) – Daniel Lippman of Politico and Bre Payton of the Federalist. Unfortunately neither were well informed or well versed in what they were pontificating about but I think they (inadvertently) stumbled on an perception of the environment that Trump administration staff find themselves in – total ostracism. Romantically, professionally and abandoned from ‘Conservative/GOP’ support systems (advice). It’s the ‘World’s Biggest High School’ and the freaks & geeks are getting picked on by the jocks and cool kids. It wasn’t their intention, but I found myself even more disgusted with that town.

    It was clear that any staffer working for the administration will be professionally ostracized. Maybe that’s why they go on and on about “no talent”. It’s all in Rubio’s, McConnel’s and Ryan’s offices. Let it rot there.

    I don’t think the GOPe types realize that this behavior will be repeated, as you state in Part 2 – in proportion to how unfettered they find themselves and their positions. I’m guessing that GOPe and Bush’s knows/knew that and never pushed too far.

     

    • #2
    • September 12, 2018, at 5:30 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  3. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    WI Con (View Comment):

    A well laid out (set) of posts. I’ve never seen anything like this. It has upended my belief in our government, … Has it been this way for decades? Have I been naïve all this time?

    Was listening to a Federalist podcast (catching up) – Daniel Lippman of Politico and Bre Payton of the Federalist. …I think they (inadvertently) stumbled on an perception of the environment that Trump administration staff find themselves in – total ostracism. 

    It was clear that any staffer working for the administration will be professionally ostracized. Maybe that’s why they go on and on about “no talent”….

    I don’t think the GOPe types realize that this behavior will be repeated, as you state in Part 2 – in proportion to how unfettered they find themselves and their positions. I’m guessing that GOPe and Bush’s knows/knew that and never pushed too far.

    Completely agree. Part of my reason for doing these posts was a need in my own small way to “plant a flag”, to put in black and white the real corruption by the highest officials in what was said to be one of the world’s premiere arbiters of Justice. Officials MSM/Dems and some NeverTrumpers keep lauding. HRC case was probably as bad or worse, but I chose a partial list of what’s happened to Trump because he’s who WaPo keeps a daily “lies” tab on while adopting “there’s nothing to see here, move along” about the seedy underbelly of Russia-gate, the Great Lie-in-Progress few in the beltway want to admit much less investigate. 

    It’s like a boil they won’t lance and drain (sorry for the medical reference but it’s best visual I could think of to illustrate my point). They salve over it with vehement denials, dress it up with expensive investigations and indictments to make it look like a complete legal intervention is in progress, and have pundits make obfuscation PR rounds as required. Meanwhile, underneath, it festers and taints everything around it. Everyone knows it’s there. The cover-up artists grow increasingly bold and elaborate in their efforts to disguise it. It lays heavy on the hearts and minds of their honest peers (media and govt), and the portion of the American electorate determined to view a targeted POTUS as more than the sum of his less admirable parts. 

    They know what they have done, but not what they have done to us. They have taken something very precious that is difficult if not impossible to replace: the belief that our Justice Dept is basically just and led by protectors determined to protect, even from themselves. Twice typing these 2 original posts I had to quit/wipe my eyes, so yeah, those yahoos took something. And they’re still trying to take my POTUS. Imperfect as he is, he’s mine and only I and my fellow Americans should say when he goes.

     

    • #3
    • September 12, 2018, at 8:41 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  4. RightAngles Member

    Bravo, Mim526

    • #4
    • September 12, 2018, at 9:00 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  5. Bob Thompson Member

    Mim526: Any other individual replacing Trump, boy scout or not, who also slows the Leftist roll will experience resistance in proportion to their success. Other GOP may espouse similar basic goals as Trump, but will they be as successful achieving them?

    We know Jeff Sessions does not aspire to reach the Presidency because he already has his dream job. But the NATO (no action, talk only) approach applies to Sessions for the very reasons noted in this post. To me, Sessions is tainted now, as a revered member of GOPe, by their most visible behavior, fear of the Left.

    • #5
    • September 12, 2018, at 9:15 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  6. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    Bravo, Mim526

    Think I may have waited a mite too long to discuss the subject on Ricochet, judging by the number of words I’ve typed today alone on it :-) The Lie-in-Progress thing is kinda catchy though now that I think about it…”don’t gimme no LIP”.

    • #6
    • September 12, 2018, at 9:25 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  7. RightAngles Member

    I just realized I should have said “brava.” So Brava, Mim! Unless you’re a guy.

    • #7
    • September 12, 2018, at 9:51 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  8. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    I just realized I should have said “brava.” So Brava, Mim! Unless you’re a guy.

    Brava since birth.

    • #8
    • September 12, 2018, at 9:56 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  9. Ontheleftcoast Member

    Mim526: As Andrew McCarthy notes, DOJ having identified no crime or basis for Donald Trump having conspired to commit a crime, the Republican-controlled Congress should be demanding an explanation for why there is a criminal investigation of the President.

    That’s the same Andrew McCarthy who couldn’t believe that the FBI and the DOJ as a whole would do what they turned out to have been doing, though he now, to his great greif and dismay, has been forced to.

    Sure, the Republican in Congress should call for an explanation, just Comey, McCabe, and the rest of the gang shouldn’t have done what they did. But all too many Republicans in Congress are signaling their loyalty to the nomenklatura they hope to join. They are share the nomenklatura’s hostility to the Constitution and the principle of a idea of government under the rule of law though they may need to pretend to uphold it occasionally for purposes of re-election.

    • #9
    • September 12, 2018, at 10:20 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  10. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    Mim526: As Andrew McCarthy notes, DOJ having identified no crime or basis for Donald Trump having conspired to commit a crime, the Republican-controlled Congress should be demanding an explanation for why there is a criminal investigation of the President.

    That’s the same Andrew McCarthy who couldn’t believe that the FBI and the DOJ as a whole would do what they turned out to have been doing, though he now, to his great greif and dismay, has been forced to.

    Sure, the Republican in Congress should call for an explanation, just Comey, McCabe, and the rest of the gang shouldn’t have done what they did. But all too many Republicans in Congress are signaling their loyalty to the nomenklatura they hope to join. They are share the nomenklatura’s hostility to the Constitution and the principle of a idea of government under the rule of law though they may need to pretend to uphold it occasionally for purposes of re-election.

    Yes, he was interpreting cause/effect based on the little hard evidence made public and, more importantly IMO, his experience of an FBI he worked closely with as a US attorney for 20+ yrs…not knowing that FBI no longer existed in the topmost echelons. When he began to be alarmed as more facts started to come out (thanks Chairman Nunes), his earned reputation for calling balls/strikes and experience was one of the things that reinforced to me there could be little room for error in believing the FBI was seriously off the rails corrupt at the top. He seems to be respected by other GOP on the Hill, so a column like this could have some influence.

    These 2 posts centered around the role of Mueller in the power struggle between Leftists and the Trump agenda. The other side of the power struggle coin is Trump and non-Leftist ruling class GOP. I used to follow Tom Nichols and remember when he was giving Trump benefit of the doubt until he went ape when DJT challenged the NATO status quo. Foreign policy is Nichols’ bread/butter, and none of the traditional GOPe seem to like Trump’s unorthodox results-driven foreign policy approach. Same with globalism/trade: there’s a group who don’t want to rock the China/EU/Middle East economic boat even if it means possible better solutions to longstanding complex issues in the end.

    • #10
    • September 12, 2018, at 11:54 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  11. RightAngles Member

    Mim526 (View Comment):

    RightAngles (View Comment):

    I just realized I should have said “brava.” So Brava, Mim! Unless you’re a guy.

    Brava since birth.

    Haha! Funny how we have to specify that these days.

    • #11
    • September 12, 2018, at 11:55 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  12. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    They have taken something very precious that is difficult if not impossible to replace: the belief that our Justice Dept is basically just and led by protectors determined to protect, even from themselves.

    And therein lies the real abomination of this mess. Lord help them for they know not what they have done. Thank you so much for taking the time to lay it all out for us so succinctly. 

    • #12
    • September 12, 2018, at 12:37 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  13. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron Miller Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Mim526: As Trump’s conservative successes multiply (and Leftists’ diminish), so does resistance against him. Any other individual replacing Trump, boy scout or not, who also slows the Leftist roll will experience resistance in proportion to their success.

    The irony is that because Trump is presumably not grounded in consistent philosophies and has been a Democrat most of his life, as I argued before his election, Democrats could have teased him to their side on some issues if Republicans pushed him away. By so hysterically attacking President Trump, Democrats ensure that his ego’s only outlet for public accomplishments is through limited Republican support. 

    • #13
    • September 12, 2018, at 1:25 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Mim526: Any other individual replacing Trump, boy scout or not, who also slows the Leftist roll will experience resistance in proportion to their success. Other GOP may espouse similar basic goals as Trump, but will they be as successful achieving them?

    We know Jeff Sessions does not aspire to reach the Presidency because he already has his dream job. But the NATO (no action, talk only) approach applies to Sessions for the very reasons noted in this post. To me, Sessions is tainted now, as a revered member of GOPe, by their most visible behavior, fear of the Left.

    I know Sessions can be a hot button, but I think DOJ is in desperate need of a really tough, apolitical lawman AG (is there such a creature who will get within 5 miles of DC?) Claims of obstruction of justice if Sessions is asked to leave are bogus IMO, but Trump left himself subject to them with his public displays of displeasure (most of which I do not approve).

    I say bogus because it’s the investigation which muddies what would otherwise be an obvious decision and DJT’s only part in the investigation has been through his lawyers to Mueller. Not only does every POTUS have the right to select his own staff, he also has the obligation to ensure his top staff are able to fully discharge their duties. Jeff Sessions by his own admission (the recusal) cannot even know about, much less supervise, the most prominent case in his entire department.

    My read on Trump’s anger with Sessions is that it stems from a feeling he (Trump) was duped; that Sessions never mentioned recusal until he had the job in the bag (a blow to his straight arrow rep in my book). I don’t agree with the idea DJT just wanted an AG to protect him from Russia-gate…he did very little to protect himself from investigators, making staff and documents fully available and keeping a decision on testifying in person open until more recently when Mueller’s motives/goals became clear. Also, as I recall there were other perhaps less conflicted people who wanted the job whom DJT could have chosen. The choice of Sessions recognized his support during the campaign and gave him a job he really wanted.

    One thing often puzzles me. How is it possible to find no problem with Mueller staffing his team with some of the most compromised people who employ very aggressive and extra legal tactics on private citizens to elicit confessions or get indictments, then give the POTUS — whose very public tweets are rude at times but do not constrain response or are certainly nothing like Mueller’s arm twisting — no room to exercise his legal authority in the matter of judicial dept staff decisions without crying “obstruction”? DOJ desperately needs an overhaul, and it’s up to a POTUS to choose an AG best suited for the task.

    • #14
    • September 12, 2018, at 1:30 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  15. Ontheleftcoast Member

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    IMO, his experience of an FBI he worked closely with as a US attorney for 20+ yrs…not knowing that FBI no longer existed in the topmost echelons.

    That made it painful to read his columns. People no less committed than Andy McCarthy to the rule of law had long since concluded that those upper echelons and the rule of law had long since parted ways.

    RightAngles (View Comment):
    I used to follow Tom Nichols and remember when he was giving Trump benefit of the doubt until he went ape when DJT challenged the NATO status quo.

    Which was long overdue for a challenge, at that. Not saying that NATO can’t have a role in Europe’s security, just that NATO operating disproportionately on US blood and treasure has had very bad consequences… as has US policy makers’ persistent ignoring of our enemies’ and less than friendly trading partners’ own agency and interests. The enemy has a vote too, and all too often the US doesn’t seem to plan for that.

    For example, there was an undertaking not to expand NATO to the east, especially militarily. In the Cold War, both the US and the USSR were planning for any conventional warfare to take place on somebody else’s territory, and part of Soviet planning was for Soviet satellites to the west to be where the war was going to be; that was also part of NATO’s planning.

    Sure, the undertaking was with Gorbachev, and lots of Westerners tried to get in on the plunder under Yeltsin and the oligarchs, but to break that undertaking without stopping the rise of a Putin was stupid. One of those things where you can have one, but not both. There was no will for conquering Russia which is what it would have taken to do that, plus breaking the undertaking made us feel good in the moment, so we did it. NATO’S mouth wound up writing a check to the new NATO members that its hind parts will have a hard time cashing.

    • #15
    • September 12, 2018, at 1:38 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    They have taken something very precious that is difficult if not impossible to replace: the belief that our Justice Dept is basically just and led by protectors determined to protect, even from themselves.

    And therein lies the real abomination of this mess. Lord help them for they know not what they have done. Thank you so much for taking the time to lay it all out for us so succinctly.

    Yes, amen, and you’re most welcome. It’s such a privilege to have a place where you know we can read, discuss, even disagree on, issues of the day without having one finger on the mute/block :-)

     

    • #16
    • September 12, 2018, at 2:11 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. Bob Thompson Member

    Mim526 (View Comment):

    My read on Trump’s anger with Sessions is that it stems from a feeling he (Trump) was duped; that Sessions never mentioned recusal until he had the job in the bag (a blow to his straight arrow rep in my book). I don’t agree with the idea DJT just wanted an AG to protect him from Russia-gate…he did very little to protect himself from investigators, making staff and documents fully available and keeping a decision on testifying in person open until more recently when Mueller’s motives/goals became clear. Also, as I recall there were other perhaps less conflicted people who wanted the job whom DJT could have chosen. The choice of Sessions recognized his support during the campaign and gave him a job he really wanted.

     

    Sessions is the bad guy here. Trump appointed him out of loyalty for Sessions’ support through the campaign. Then Sessions recused himself without being open about it. I really can see those acting out the insurance policy nurturing that process since it leaves Rosenstein in charge of every aspect of every area of suspected misbehavior in DoJ and the FBI and places the President in an untenable position that should never be placed on the POTUS. That applies even to current events involving the consideration to declassify the FISA warrant to surveil Carter Page, much of which has be subject to redactions. Sundance, at Conservative Treehouse, points out in the post titled ‘The Classification Conundrum’, that no President has ever declassified information under security of the Attorney General or the FBI absent the concurrence of the AG and the FBI Director. The President can do it but it sets a new precedent that the White House must consider. We have seen Rosenstein’s behavior when he senses a threat so this might be interesting. I would conjecture that if Rosenstein refuses to agree to declassify and Trump goes ahead with it over those objections, if it shows some abuse involving Rosenstein, the President has clear grounds to remove the DAG. If no abuse is revealed, makes the President look bad. But since the White House can see everything without redaction they should be able to figure out the appropriate action. 

    • #17
    • September 12, 2018, at 2:34 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    Yes, amen, and you’re most welcome. It’s such a privilege to have a place where you know we can read, discuss, even disagree on, issues of the day without having one finger on the mute/block :-)

    I wish I could convince my Dem friends to read the comments on Ricochet instead of listening to the daily vituperations of MSNBC. 

    • #18
    • September 12, 2018, at 3:29 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  19. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    Yes, amen, and you’re most welcome. It’s such a privilege to have a place where you know we can read, discuss, even disagree on, issues of the day without having one finger on the mute/block :-)

    I wish I could convince my Dem friends to read the comments on Ricochet instead of listening to the daily vituperations of MSNBC.

    I think the best billboard of a clear-headed, objective Conservative your friends could ever have is their clear-headed, objective Conservative friend :-) Seriously.

    Don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but if you are and are up for expanding that faith, have you ever tried asking God to open up opportunities for you to share philosophies with them? It doesn’t work so well for me when I think it’s a good time and go for it, but when I recognize that divinely directed opening, say a prayer for wisdom and words, then dive in….#MiraclesCanHappen.

    • #19
    • September 12, 2018, at 3:58 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  20. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    Don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but if you are and are up for expanding that faith, have you ever tried asking God to open up opportunities for you to share philosophies with them?

    I am a person of faith but have never asked God for anything pertaining to politics, limiting my “asks” to a sick friend or an unhappy family member. Once I asked our priest (Episcopalian) if he would pray for the Seahawks to win the superbowl. He replied that he had just spent the afternoon in the home of a family with a dying child and thought our prayers were best saved for them. That answer put me in my place as far as what was important enough to pray for.

    One of my closest friends is a delightful, well educated, politically-involved Democrat. We have much in common in our private lives save, alas, politics. Since she is adamantly opposed to Trump and gets most of her political news from Morning Joe and Rachel Maddow, it’s impossible for us to talk Trump at all. The few times we approached the subject, it quickly became apparent that it is impossible go there without a breach in our friendship. She is as convinced her side is right as I am of our side. Never the twain shall meet.

    • #20
    • September 12, 2018, at 4:32 PM PDT
    • Like
  21. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Mim526: As Trump’s conservative successes multiply (and Leftists’ diminish), so does resistance against him. Any other individual replacing Trump, boy scout or not, who also slows the Leftist roll will experience resistance in proportion to their success.

    The irony is that because Trump is presumably not grounded in consistent philosophies and has been a Democrat most of his life, as I argued before his election, Democrats could have teased him to their side on some issues if Republicans pushed him away. By so hysterically attacking President Trump, Democrats ensure that his ego’s only outlet for public accomplishments is through limited Republican support.

    You could maybe say he seems pretty grounded in a pragmatic “Fix It” philosophy. Doesn’t care how it’s always been done, just figure out the best and quickest way to resolve the problem, then do it.

    Nike could have hired Donald Trump as their #JustDoIt guy.

    Must be scaring the Dems because it seems to be all Leftist hands on deck these days. Incoming from multiple directions increases the closer we get to midterm elections.

     

    • #21
    • September 12, 2018, at 4:48 PM PDT
    • Like
  22. Mim526 Member
    Mim526

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    Don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but if you are and are up for expanding that faith, have you ever tried asking God to open up opportunities for you to share philosophies with them?

    I am a person of faith but have never asked God for anything pertaining to politics, limiting my “asks” to a sick friend or an unhappy family member. Once I asked our priest (Episcopalian) if he would pray for the Seahawks to win the superbowl. He replied that he had just spent the afternoon in the home of a family with a dying child and thought our prayers were best saved for them. That answer put me in my place as far as what was important enough to pray for.

    One of my closest friends is a delightful, well educated, politically-involved Democrat. We have much in common in our private lives save, alas, politics. Since she is adamantly opposed to Trump and gets most of her political news from Morning Joe and Rachel Maddow, it’s impossible for us to talk Trump at all. The few times we approached the subject, it quickly became apparent that it is impossible go there without a breach in our friendship. She is as convinced her side is right as I am of our side. Never the twain shall meet.

    2016 election proved pure politics discussions can be rough on friendships. I was thinking more along the lines of opportunities to discuss life philosophy, quality of life things more than exclusively conservative political thought or voting for a specific person. I don’t look at people thinking about changing them…definite friendship killer.

     

    • #22
    • September 12, 2018, at 5:47 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  23. RightAngles Member

    Mim526 (View Comment):

    Goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    Don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but if you are and are up for expanding that faith, have you ever tried asking God to open up opportunities for you to share philosophies with them?

    I am a person of faith but have never asked God for anything pertaining to politics, limiting my “asks” to a sick friend or an unhappy family member. Once I asked our priest (Episcopalian) if he would pray for the Seahawks to win the superbowl. He replied that he had just spent the afternoon in the home of a family with a dying child and thought our prayers were best saved for them. That answer put me in my place as far as what was important enough to pray for.

    One of my closest friends is a delightful, well educated, politically-involved Democrat. We have much in common in our private lives save, alas, politics. Since she is adamantly opposed to Trump and gets most of her political news from Morning Joe and Rachel Maddow, it’s impossible for us to talk Trump at all. The few times we approached the subject, it quickly became apparent that it is impossible go there without a breach in our friendship. She is as convinced her side is right as I am of our side. Never the twain shall meet.

    2016 election proved pure politics discussions can be rough on friendships. I was thinking more along the lines of opportunities to discuss life philosophy, quality of life things more than exclusively conservative political thought or voting for a specific person. I don’t look at people thinking about changing them…definite friendship killer.

     

    My lib friends and I just don’t bring it up.

    • #23
    • September 12, 2018, at 6:12 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  24. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Mim526 (View Comment):
    2016 election proved pure politics discussions can be rough on friendships. I was thinking more along the lines of opportunities to discuss life philosophy, quality of life things more than exclusively conservative political thought or voting for a specific person. I don’t look at people thinking about changing them…definite friendship killer.

    You’re right. We discuss many subjects, plus, we are both widows who are active in the lives and love of our children and grandchildren. Also, we are major dog lovers. When I had to put down my precious 13-year old Golden Retriever a few months ago, she was devastated that I didn’t ask her to go with me to the vet that day and cried almost as hard as I did when I told her. Politics is important to both of us, but living productive daily lives is more important. The malice we see on MSNBC, CNN toward Trump and everything he does ill serves the reality of the way we live and only contributes to a lack of civility in this country. It’s a crying-out-loud shame. 

    • #24
    • September 12, 2018, at 6:24 PM PDT
    • 2 likes

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