Is it Just Me?

 

When it comes to the still extant Russian collusion narrative, the left and the Legacy Media (I know, I know) claim as their most solid evidence the meeting between Don Jr. and Natalia Veselnitskaya (hereafter known as the lawyer, because I’m not spelling that again). I say that not only is the meeting not evidence of collusion, but that it is actually far more effective as evidence against collusion.

Stay with me here, because I’m pretty sure this makes sense…

In order for Donald Trump to collude with Vladimir Putin to “steal the election,” or as the media have taken to calling it, conspire to defraud the American people, they must have agreed to take certain actions in concert. In order for them to agree, they must have had some communications channel. An as yet undetected communications channel. You can’t have a conspiracy without an agreement; you can’t have an agreement without communications.

So, if Trump and Putin have this super-secret communications channel, what would be the purpose of sending in some rando lawyer to pass along information?  They can pass as much info as they want back and forth, because of the super-secret communications channel. And any dirt the Russians might have on Hillary would have already been in their possession.

When the lawyer called the Trump campaign telling them she had Russian-sourced dirt on Hillary Clinton, the response should have been, “So do we.” If there was any indication that she had any info they hadn’t already received, why wouldn’t the Donald just call up Vlad on the Batphone and tell him to spill?

You might say that they only took the meeting to cover up the real conspiracy. I say you’re piling one conspiracy on top of another when there is still no actual evidence for conspiracy at any level. Like a super-secret, undetected, unbreakable, undiscoverable communications channel.

Find that, and we can talk.

There are 61 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Fusion GPS spy Natalia Veselnitskaya operated out of Obama’s office

    • #1
  2. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Fusion GPS spy Natalia Veselnitskaya operated out of Obama’s office

    Oh, I know there is lots of shady info around that whole meeting.  My point is that that stuff isn’t even necessary.  It fails on its own, because it can’t answer the simple question of what the meeting was for.

    • #2
  3. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    • #3
  4. PHenry Member
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Russian Lawyer:  I have dirt on Hillary. 

    Don Jr.:  What is it? 

    Lawyer: Never mind, lets talk about adoption.

    Democrats, and their media:   Collusion! 

     

    Hillary:  I need dirt on Trump

    Steele/Ohr/Fusion GPS:  We have Russian contacts that we can use to say (XYZ )

    Hillary:  OK, now use it to get a FISA warrant on my opponent.

    Democrats, and their media, and most Republicans :  Nothing to see here! 

     

    • #4
  5. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    The lawyer met with Glenn Simpson (Fusion GPS hired by Clinton campaign) before and after the meeting with Don Jr. These people have some chutzpah accusing others of collusion. 

    • #5
  6. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    These people have some chutzpah accusing others of collusion.

    Projection is the term you’re looking for.

    • #6
  7. Bill Nelson Inactive
    Bill Nelson
    @BillNelson

    Mr. Trump was part of a very large conspiracy to keep Mrs. Clinton out of the White House. It is called a political campaign.

    That being said, the campaign was incredibly naive and not very good at lying. Now, there are some odd elements to this. Some unknown Russian woman wanting to discuss adoptions gets to meet the powers in the campaign? How does this happen? But then the story changes. But still, how do you get to see Trump Jr.?

     

    • #7
  8. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    • #8
  9. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Bill Nelson (View Comment):

    Mr. Trump was part of a very large conspiracy to keep Mrs. Clinton out of the White House. It is called a political campaign.

    That being said, the campaign was incredibly naive and not very good at lying. Now, there are some odd elements to this. Some unknown Russian woman wanting to discuss adoptions gets to meet the powers in the campaign? How does this happen? But then the story changes. But still, how do you get to see Trump Jr.?

     

    You tell them you have dirt on Hillary.  Then when you get there you talk about sanctions relief (which was being lobbied by Fusion GPS on behalf of… someone who wanted sanctions relief for the Russians, so maybe… I don’t know… Russians?).  Adoption was part of the discussion because that’s how the Russians retaliated for the sanctions; by holding up adoptions.

    • #9
  10. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    John Bolton might make a good Bullwinkle.  His eyes are similarly close together.

    • #10
  11. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    • #11
  12. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Bill Nelson (View Comment):

    Mr. Trump was part of a very large conspiracy to keep Mrs. Clinton out of the White House. It is called a political campaign.

    That being said, the campaign was incredibly naive and not very good at lying. Now, there are some odd elements to this. Some unknown Russian woman wanting to discuss adoptions gets to meet the powers in the campaign? How does this happen? But then the story changes. But still, how do you get to see Trump Jr.?

    Easy. The lawyer promised dirt on Hillary. It is not illegal to meet with Russians even if they claim to have dirt on your opponent in a campaign.

    Now, fabricating a dossier to use as fake justification for obtaining a FISA warrant and then using government instruments to spy on and smear your political opposition? That’s corrupt, if not illegal. With the institutions of government arrayed against Republicans by the Obama administration, I think it’s the closest this country has ever come to banana republic stuff. The Mueller investigation is the prosecutorial equivalent of a kangaroo court.

    • #12
  13. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    My view if that different sources may have different info.  There’s no guarantee what you may hear from one is what you’ve heard from another, so . . . explore.

    • #13
  14. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    The Trump Tower meeting is collusion narrative survives because evidently there is nothing else to further the Trump/Russia collusion narrative.

    If the Trump Tower meeting is all that there is, then there is effectively no Trump/Russia collusion case to be made.

    If there were more to the Trump/Russia collusion case it would have been leaked by (D)’s in Congress, spun up like crazy by the MSM, and related indictments and immunity deals would have been handed out like candy by Mueller months ago.

    • #14
  15. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    Not true.  To keep the back channel a back channel (secret), everyone involved must behave as if it doesn’t exist to anyone not known to be involved.  Like some random lawyer claiming to have dirt on Hillary.

    Judge, it’s not just you.  It’s you and Percival.

    • #15
  16. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    Not true. To keep the back channel a back channel (secret), everyone involved must behave as if it doesn’t exist to anyone not known to be involved. Like some random lawyer claiming to have dirt on Hillary.

    Judge, it’s not just you. It’s you and Percival.

    So, a conspiracy to protect the conspiracy.

    • #16
  17. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    Not true. To keep the back channel a back channel (secret), everyone involved must behave as if it doesn’t exist to anyone not known to be involved. Like some random lawyer claiming to have dirt on Hillary.

    Judge, it’s not just you. It’s you and Percival.

    So, a conspiracy to protect the conspiracy.

    Well, we’re all conspirators, then.  Including you, unless you’ve never kept any secrets at all.

    • #17
  18. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    Definitely Comey for Bullwinkle.

    • #18
  19. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    But if there is a back channel, then the meeting doesn’t make any sense.

    Not true. To keep the back channel a back channel (secret), everyone involved must behave as if it doesn’t exist to anyone not known to be involved. Like some random lawyer claiming to have dirt on Hillary.

    Judge, it’s not just you. It’s you and Percival.

    So, a conspiracy to protect the conspiracy.

    Well, we’re all conspirators, then. Including you, unless you’ve never kept any secrets at all.

    You know what an even more effective tactic to protect the back channel would have been?  To refuse the meeting.

    • #19
  20. CarolJoy Coolidge
    CarolJoy
    @CarolJoy

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Too much is made of the meeting, but I don’t think that taking it precludes the existence of an undisclosed back channel.

    Except for the fact that after the two years plus of investigating Trump, there has been no proof or even a suggestion of some back channel.

    Do we need another year of this? Or two? Or three?

    Meanwhile Uranium One actually happened. As did Hillary, as Secretary of State,  taking monies via the Clinton Foundation so that she would act on behalf of officials in Qatar and Saudi Arabia and get them the war on against Syria so they would be happy.

    • #20
  21. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Russiagate is baloney. Well, let’s say 85–88% baloney; no one has any doubt that Russia does indeed fund various dirty tricks, almost certainly ineffectual. They could swing an election only to the degree that climbing a tree can get you to the Moon. If this is what they’ve got, they got nothin’. 

    But…Trump and his businesses have had extensive overseas operations for decades. As with most privately held or closely held companies, not much of this is simple, or in public view. If someone has proof that Russian billionaires close to Putin (there is no other kind) lent or invested tons of unknown money in Trump, it would change things. I say it’s very unlikely that we wouldn’t have known by now. 

    • #21
  22. Go Ahead Redact My Day Coolidge
    Go Ahead Redact My Day
    @Pseudodionysius

    Everyone can see Russia from their House

    • #22
  23. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    rico (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    Definitely Comey for Bullwinkle.

    No.  Bullwinkle is likable.

     

    • #23
  24. Bill Nelson Inactive
    Bill Nelson
    @BillNelson

    Judge Mental (View Comment):
    You tell them you have dirt on Hillary.

    I could tell them that. It would not have gotten me into the building.

     

    • #24
  25. Go Ahead Redact My Day Coolidge
    Go Ahead Redact My Day
    @Pseudodionysius

    rico (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    Definitely Comey for Bullwinkle.

    Wodka. Moose and Squirrel. Boris and Natasha. Wodka.

    • #25
  26. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Bill Nelson (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):
    You tell them you have dirt on Hillary.

    I could tell them that. It would not have gotten me into the building.

     

    You’re not Russian.  Or are you?

    • #26
  27. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    rico (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Judge Mental: Natalia Veselnitskaya

    Wouldn’t it have been better if her name was Natasha and she came along with Boris to the meeting? Then we’d need to figure out who get to play Rocky and Bullwinkle in this little drama. Thoughts?

    Definitely Comey for Bullwinkle.

    No. Bullwinkle is likable.

    It’s been awhile, but as a 5-year old my primary impression of Bullwinkle was that he was a bit dense between the antlers.

    • #27
  28. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    It is only about undoing the election. 

    We are being told by all the Democrats, and the anti-Trump Republicans than the millions who voted for Trump should be repudiated. This is not about anything less than overturning an election. 

    I am done seeing it as anything else. Trump has clearly done nothing to be removed from office. 

    Anyone who advocates for his removal or advocated for the Electoral College to undo the election are anti-democratic anti-republican, and anti-American.

    • #28
  29. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It is only about undoing the election.

    We are being told by all the Democrats, and the anti-Trump Republicans than the millions who voted for Trump should be repudiated. This is not about anything less than overturning an election.

    I am done seeing it as anything else. Trump has clearly done nothing to be removed from office.

    Anyone who advocates for his removal or advocated for the Electoral College to undo the election are anti-democratic anti-republican, and anti-American.

    You have to imagine the Battle Hymn of the Republic playing in the background when you read this.

    • #29
  30. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    The Russian collusion is only an excuse to investigate Trump, his family and anybody stupid enough to have worked for him for any crime no matter how connected or valid.  If they do it right they can impeach Trump and financially break anybody remotely close to him.  If they cost people enough they will leave Trump or will not hire up with him.  If they cost Trump enough or endanger his family then he may resign to get them to stop (they won’t).  Using logic for this is silly.  There is no logic but to remove Trump and hurt people.  

    • #30

Comments are closed because this post is more than six months old. Please write a new post if you would like to continue this conversation.