Tibbetts Family Join the Worst Fraternity

 

As soon as the body of Mollie Tibbetts was found, and the suspect’s illegal citizenship status became known, those on the Right and on the Left went to their corners. On the Right, it’s proof of the need for a border wall, stronger enforcement, and a tougher line on immigration on the whole. On the Left, she’s just “some girl in Iowa” (as a panelist on MSNBC said yesterday).

Immediately conservatives and Trump partisans nailed the panelist for her language and tone about the tragic murder:

There will be plenty written about both views, that this was a local crime story and that it was a representation of a larger immigration issue. I’ll leave that task to those with more expertise in the subject matter and a passion for scoring partisan points with someone else’s personal tragedy.

But I can’t help but think about Mollie’s parents today, and the awful fraternity of families they have joined. Mollie’s parents, like those killed in Sandy Hook and Parkland, and the parents of Seth Rich have experienced the most excruciating loss imaginable, the violent murder of their child, and then watched that child’s death politicized and turned into conspiracy theories and political volleyballs.

And sadly, it doesn’t seem there’s much they can do about it. The lawsuit filed by Seth Rich’s parents against Fox News was thrown out by a judge. Alex Jones has peddled conspiracy theories about the Sandy Hook families with no real consequences until very recently, with lawsuits filed by some of the families affected by the falsehoods he spread. It took years, and a great deal of abuse, for the Rich and Sandy Hook families to take their fights to the courts. And it’s unclear their fight will amount to anything.

Is this what the Tibbetts family have to look forward to? It seems we’ve lost so much of our humanity, we can’t recognize that while there are public policy implications related to immigration-related to her death, we are still ultimately talking about an individual and her family, and this is all in the public eye because of the brutal death of a young woman.

After mass shootings, conservatives argue that laws likely would not have prevented tragedy, that it’s too soon to see the big picture, that it’s disrespectful to the dead to use them in this way. Just as we (rightly) push back at the suggestion that we should be making large legislative moves following mass shootings, we need to also understand that the same apprehension should apply to the death of Mollie Tibbetts as well. Do we believe it’s too soon after mass shootings but not after Mollie Tibbetts’ death because we are just partisans, or do we actually believe the things we say we believe?

If the Tibbetts family choose to become immigration activists in the shadow of their daughter’s death, their voices would be a valuable addition to an important national conversation. But before either side invokes her death in partisan bickering, we need to keep in mind the unfathomable pain of an individual family burying their daughter, and they have in no way signed up for their daughter’s memory to be turned into a political issue.

 

There are 25 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Bethany Mandel: Do we believe it’s too soon after mass shootings but not after Mollie Tibbetts’ death because we are just partisans, or do we actually believe the things we say we believe?

    One conversation is about altering your Constitutional rights as a citizen and the other is, well, not. One has long term consequences for keeping your personal liberties, the other does not. And by the way, had Mollie Tibbetts been exercising the Constitutional right others are itching to take away, she might still be with her family.

    • #1
  2. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    I think you should really reconsider the comparison to alex jones/sandyhook and the seth rich conspiracy theories.  It is a wildly inappropriate comparison that is so intentionally inflammatory that it will overshadow the very useful and interesting point you are trying to make.

    • #2
  3. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    I second Guru’s suggestion. There are no conspiracies theories surrounding the deaths of Mollie Tibbetts, Kate Stenile or others who have suffered deaths in their families due to open borders. 

    • #3
  4. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bethany Mandel: Do we believe it’s too soon after mass shootings but not after Mollie Tibbetts’ death because we are just partisans, or do we actually believe the things we say we believe?

    One conversation is about altering your Constitutional rights as a citizen and the other is, well, not. One has long term consequences for keeping your personal liberties, the other does not. And by the way, had Mollie Tibbetts been exercising the Constitutional right others are itching to take away, she might still be with her family.

    Or not. You won’t ever be able to deter weirdo killers who do it on impulse and to strangers. Her misfortune was not our immigration situation but in running into a psycho. And the idea that better border control would remove any significant portion of psychos from our country is just illogical. The killer was found, he is being tried, he will be convicted and he will be punished. That is really as good as can be done, as tragic as it all is.  

     

    • #4
  5. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Valiuth: That is really as good as can be done, as tragic as it all is.

    Not if women learn to conceal carry. Which, of course, they would not have the right to do if the left has their way.

    • #5
  6. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Hard to see how arguments and action to prevent the revocation of our fundamental Constitutional rights are comparable to a fundamental refusal to enforce our immigration laws.

    Now if we had a constitutional amendment which guaranteed the universal human right of every human to reside in the United States there might be some plausible reason to object to those who oppose illegal immigration.

    Comparing those who bemoan the presence of illegal alien murderers in this country to conspiracy wingnuts is patently absurd.

    There is more than one way to play politics with the grief of parents.   Belittling people with genuine concern over this tragedy as principally seeking to score partisan political points is one way.

    • #6
  7. Go Ahead Redact My Day Coolidge
    Go Ahead Redact My Day
    @Pseudodionysius

    important national conversation.

    Confucius say:

    “Those who use term “national conversation” never clear on when conversation will end. Or why. Or how.”

    Its a very stylish thing to say these days.

    • #7
  8. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Valiuth: That is really as good as can be done, as tragic as it all is.

    Not if women learn to conceal carry. Which, of course, they would not have the right to do if the left has their way.

    Yah okay, people can take personal defense more seriously. But, was that really a problem where she lived in Iowa? In theory if we all go around armed we might be safer (assuming we are also trained), but nothing in life is that simple. More people carrying weapons with them also increases the risk of accidents or minor confrontations turning deadly (like with Zimmerman in Florida). So in a relatively safe area where the odds of being murdered or assaulted are virtually none existent, the increase in concealed carry may actually lead to more incidents of injury or death. This is why cases like this are don’t make for good basis of law or practice. They are essentially freak occurrences. The outlay of resources  to cut them down is enormous and will most likely have other undesirable effects.  

     

     

    • #8
  9. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Go Ahead Redact My Day (View Comment):

    important national conversation.

    Confucius say:

    “Those who use term “national conversation” never clear on when conversation will end. Or why. Or how.”

    Its a very stylish thing to say these days.

    A national conversion is what we must have whenever full and good faith enforcement of existing laws doesn’t produce the results that liberals and eastern seaboard conservatives prefer or when explaining why the calculated non-enforcement of the laws they don’t prefer must persist.

    Try to find any honest hardhitting pieces on this tragedy at NR, the Weekly Standard, Commentary and the Free Beacon (you know, the home of Aaron Harison, my favorite troll).  A small sidebar piece here, an antiliberal video there but really no interest at all.

    Now, look at Fox, Drudge and Breitbart.

    And keep wondering how we got Trump.

    • #9
  10. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Elizabeth Warren on Fox seemed to be more concerned with children being separated at the border from their parents when asked how she felt about this case of an illegal immigrant confessing to this girl’s murder.  She  expressed sadness for 20 seconds then moved right into the other topics about immigration – like crime has nothing to do with it. It is a very sad day and a very sad story – and yet what is changing? Still arguing about illegal immigration.  What is it about the word illegal don’t people get?

    • #10
  11. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Valiuth: But, was that really a problem where she lived in Iowa?

    Did it happen? If the answer is “yes” don’t tell me it’s not a “problem.” Is she dead? Is that a problem? Or just not your problem? I know that sounds flippant but your answer just sounds callous.

    • #11
  12. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Of course, not letting a good crisis go to waste, the fake Indian weighs in …

    Fauxcahontas on Mollie Tibbets murder: Let’s Tackle Real Problems Like Family Separation

    Um … Senator … Mollie is separated from her family. Permanently. And you have blood on your hands.

    • #12
  13. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Go Ahead Redact My Day (View Comment):

    important national conversation.

    Confucius say:

    “Those who use term “national conversation” never clear on when conversation will end. Or why. Or how.”

    Its a very stylish thing to say these days.

    Hey you over there, shut up, I’m having a “national conversation”!

    • #13
  14. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    You won’t ever be able to deter weirdo killers who do it on impulse and to strangers.

    He wouldn’t be here if immigration laws had been enforced.

    • #14
  15. blood thirsty neocon Inactive
    blood thirsty neocon
    @bloodthirstyneocon

    Bethany Mandel: Mollie’s parents, like those killed in Sandy Hook and Parkland, and the parents of Seth Rich have experienced the most excruciating loss imaginable, the violent murder of their child, and then watched that child’s death politicized and turned into conspiracy theories and political volleyballs.

    Ummm…what are you talking about? There is no conspiracy theory here. The illegal immigrant killed an innocent girl just out for a jog. Yes, we’re gonna politicize it in an effort to keep it from happening to too many more Americans.

    • #15
  16. Go Ahead Redact My Day Coolidge
    Go Ahead Redact My Day
    @Pseudodionysius

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Of course, not letting a good crisis go to waste, the fake Indian weighs in …

    Fauxcahontas on Mollie Tibbets murder: Let’s Tackle Real Problems Like Family Separation

    Um … Senator … Mollie is separated from her family. Permanently. And you have blood on your hands.

    She’s on the warpath.

    • #16
  17. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Bethany Mandel: Do we believe it’s too soon after mass shootings but not after Mollie Tibbetts’ death because we are just partisans, or do we actually believe the things we say we believe?

    One conversation is about altering your Constitutional rights as a citizen and the other is, well, not. One has long term consequences for keeping your personal liberties, the other does not. And by the way, had Mollie Tibbetts been exercising the Constitutional right others are itching to take away, she might still be with her family.

    Or not. You won’t ever be able to deter weirdo killers who do it on impulse and to strangers. Her misfortune was not our immigration situation but in running into a psycho. And the idea that better border control would remove any significant portion of psychos from our country is just illogical. The killer was found, he is being tried, he will be convicted and he will be punished. That is really as good as can be done, as tragic as it all is.

     

    It’s not about deterring weirdo killers, or psychopathic ones, for that matter.

    It’s about someone who is already not supposed to be here.  Let me say it again.  The killer was not supposed to be here.  At all.  Thus, in the world as it should have been, Mollie Tibbetts would not be dead because her killer would have remained in another country.

    Keeping illegal aliens out of the country will stop 100% of the violent crimes committed by illegal aliens.  Obviously.  And there’s little or no downside, because we can enforce this law only against the illegal aliens.  No need to burden legitimate citizens or take away their rights.

    It is very difficult to identify and remove predatory killers in our midst, before they strike, because it is difficult or impossible to identify the potential wrongdoer.  The illegal aliens are already wrongdoers, so there is no such problem.  It is not so difficult to remove illegal aliens, and they should be removed in large numbers.

    Thus, I don’t think that the comparison is apt, at all, to the Leftist gun-grabbers who try to peddle their ineffective remedies, which will necessarily restrict the legitimate Constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens.

    • #17
  18. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):
    Keeping illegal aliens out of the country will stop 100% of the violent crimes committed by illegal aliens. Obviously. And there’s little or no downside, because we can enforce this law only against the illegal aliens. No need to burden legitimate citizens or take away their rights.

    Wonderful paragraph. Every time the establishment comes up with a solution, it is always at the expense of the freedom and convenience of law abiding citizens. Can you say counter intuitive? That is the methodology of our lawmakers. It comes down to the same question…why are they punishing me, I’ve done nothing wrong?

    • #18
  19. Brian Wolf Coolidge
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    As a missionary I have run into the very common attitude in other countries about foreigners, which is that everything is there fault.  So a drunk driver slams into my van, while I was making a legal turn.  Blood is everywhere from a head wound I received and my fiance is hurt.  The police that come to the scene ask me directly, “Well if you had not come here would this accident have happened?”  Another officer said, “If you had stayed in America this man would not have run into you would he?”

    I eventually sorted out the mess with a lawyer and managed to keep from paying for the damage to the drunk man’s car.  I could have sued him too but I chose not too.

    Any crime can traced back to a  source cause.  What if Mollie’s killed had been aborted?  I mean wasn’t the murder really the killer’s mother’s fault?  A son of legal immigrants commit a crime why did we let them into the country in the first place?  If we had kept them out then their killer son would never have been here.  Nearly all African American crime can really be traced back to the slave trade right?  If we had never had slavery in this country we certainly would not have very much African American crime.

    The immigration issues is a very important issue.  We need desperately to control our border and rebuild civic trust among our communities and in our government.  All that is true.

    But Mollie Tibbets was killed by a man who chose to do an evil and unjust act and that man must be punished for his crime.  Full stop. 

    If you defend gun rights then you know this line of argumentation does not work.  In a country like America as rich as we are with the kind of openess we have no matter how well functioning our border control system is we will always have illegal immigrants.   Our immigration system and enforcement are not at fault for Mollie’s murder, than man that killed her is fully responsible for that.    For that murder HE must be punished.

    Having said all that I may disagree with the OP in that I think it is totally fair game to hang the Democrat’s words around their own necks.  If they think that Mollies is just “some girl” or that temporary separation is worse than murder then they deserve to have that mill stone hung around their necks by Republicans and voters should have those thoughts in mind come November.

    • #19
  20. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):
    Any crime can traced back to a source cause. What if Mollie’s killed had been aborted? I mean wasn’t the murder really the killer’s mother’s fault? A son of legal immigrants commit a crime why did we let them into the country in the first place? If we had kept them out then their killer son would never have been here. Nearly all African American crime can really be traced back to the slave trade right? If we had never had slavery in this country we certainly would not have very much African American crime.

    If Eve had never listened to the serpent…

    Ridiculous. 

    • #20
  21. Brian Wolf Coolidge
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):
    Any crime can traced back to a source cause. What if Mollie’s killed had been aborted? I mean wasn’t the murder really the killer’s mother’s fault? A son of legal immigrants commit a crime why did we let them into the country in the first place? If we had kept them out then their killer son would never have been here. Nearly all African American crime can really be traced back to the slave trade right? If we had never had slavery in this country we certainly would not have very much African American crime.

    If Eve had never listened to the serpent…

    Ridiculous.

    Yep

    • #21
  22. blood thirsty neocon Inactive
    blood thirsty neocon
    @bloodthirstyneocon

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):

    As a missionary I have run into the very common attitude in other countries about foreigners, which is that everything is there fault. So a drunk driver slams into my van, while I was making a legal turn. Blood is everywhere from a head wound I received and my fiance is hurt. The police that come to the scene ask me directly, “Well if you had not come here would this accident have happened?” Another officer said, “If you had stayed in America this man would not have run into you would he?”

    This line of argument is irrelevant, because I assume you were in that foreign country legally, and you were doing nothing wrong. Mr. Rivera was in the country illegally, and having committed a long list of crimes during his few years in America, he decided to commit the most awful crime. I must again wonder what on Earth a fellow Ricochetti is talking about.  

    • #22
  23. Brian Wolf Coolidge
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    blood thirsty neocon (View Comment):

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):

    As a missionary I have run into the very common attitude in other countries about foreigners, which is that everything is there fault. So a drunk driver slams into my van, while I was making a legal turn. Blood is everywhere from a head wound I received and my fiance is hurt. The police that come to the scene ask me directly, “Well if you had not come here would this accident have happened?” Another officer said, “If you had stayed in America this man would not have run into you would he?”

    This line of argument is irrelevant, because I assume you were in that foreign country legally, and you were doing nothing wrong. Mr. Rivera was in the country illegally, and having committed a long list of crimes during his few years in America, he decided to commit the most awful crime. I must again wonder what on Earth a fellow Ricochetti is talking about.

    I am glad we agree.  The situation is about Mr. Rivera, exactly.  I am not sure what confused you you locked in on my main point just fine.

    • #23
  24. blood thirsty neocon Inactive
    blood thirsty neocon
    @bloodthirstyneocon

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):

    blood thirsty neocon (View Comment):

    Brian Wolf (View Comment):

    As a missionary I have run into the very common attitude in other countries about foreigners, which is that everything is there fault. So a drunk driver slams into my van, while I was making a legal turn. Blood is everywhere from a head wound I received and my fiance is hurt. The police that come to the scene ask me directly, “Well if you had not come here would this accident have happened?” Another officer said, “If you had stayed in America this man would not have run into you would he?”

    This line of argument is irrelevant, because I assume you were in that foreign country legally, and you were doing nothing wrong. Mr. Rivera was in the country illegally, and having committed a long list of crimes during his few years in America, he decided to commit the most awful crime. I must again wonder what on Earth a fellow Ricochetti is talking about.

    I am glad we agree. The situation is about Mr. Rivera, exactly. I am not sure what confused you you locked in on my main point just fine.

    Good, I thought I was going crazy. I misunderstood your tone. It happens sometimes when you read something written by someone you don’t know. Sorry, point taken. I agree with you.

    • #24
  25. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Valiuth: That is really as good as can be done, as tragic as it all is.

    Not if women learn to conceal carry. Which, of course, they would not have the right to do if the left has their way.

    Yah okay, people can take personal defense more seriously. But, was that really a problem where she lived in Iowa? In theory if we all go around armed we might be safer (assuming we are also trained), but nothing in life is that simple. More people carrying weapons with them also increases the risk of accidents or minor confrontations turning deadly (like with Zimmerman in Florida). So in a relatively safe area where the odds of being murdered or assaulted are virtually none existent, the increase in concealed carry may actually lead to more incidents of injury or death. This is why cases like this are don’t make for good basis of law or practice. They are essentially freak occurrences. The outlay of resources to cut them down is enormous and will most likely have other undesirable effects.

     

     

    Yet if an illegal immigrant hadn’t killed her, we wouldn’t have this valuable input into the national conversation.

    • #25

Comments are closed because this post is more than six months old. Please write a new post if you would like to continue this conversation.