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  1. Simon Templar Inactive
    Simon Templar
    @SimonTemplar

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not.  When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    • #61
  2. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not. When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    Two things:

    1. Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures.  Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.
    2. This whole “everybody was out to get him” thing is a pile of crap.  One of his many scandals was giving unauthorized raises to two aides.
    • #62
  3. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

     They were out to get him and they did.  All of the things he did were not unusual nor significant but  Republicans, especially in places important to organized interests and staffed by progressives, given the anti Trump  hysteria,  have to live like saints.  He should have known better.     It is fair to be angry at Pruitt, he made it difficult not to feed these people raw meat.  You can’t appease progressives.  The lesson for the rest of us however, is that Federal officials from the top down are used to exercising power without accountability, but not necessarily for personal gain, which is worse.   Let’s fix that by cutting them back with chain saw.  

    • #63
  4. Simon Templar Inactive
    Simon Templar
    @SimonTemplar

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not. When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    Two things:

    1. Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.
    2. This whole “everybody was out to get him” thing is a pile of crap. One of his many scandals was giving unauthorized raises to two aides.
    1.  Typically does not mean 100% of the time.
    2. I do not know anything about it, but at first blush am extremely skeptical about the alleged scandal of ‘unauthorized raises.’
    • #64
  5. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not. When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    Two things:

    1. Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.
    2. This whole “everybody was out to get him” thing is a pile of crap. One of his many scandals was giving unauthorized raises to two aides.

    The two aides in question were hired by Pruitt from outside Washington. Their raises became controversial when they disturbed the waters of the EPA swamp. Personally, I rather admire the use of an obscure hiring authority (evidently designed for stocking the swamp with favored “environmentalists”) to hire and promote aides focused on draining it.

    • #65
  6. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    Is that something like keeping a private e-mail server?

    Both were attempts to skirt public accountability.

    • #66
  7. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.

    They do if they insist on leading in a direction the “troops” refuse to go.

    • #67
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not. When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    Two things:

    1. Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.
    2. This whole “everybody was out to get him” thing is a pile of crap. One of his many scandals was giving unauthorized raises to two aides.

    There is no way we want the leader of the EPA to be “respected and effective” as the permanent swamp staff sees it. 

    • #68
  9. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Simon Templar (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):
    True. But a better bureaucrat/politician could have avoided the traps.

    Probably not. When your whole ‘unit’ is out to frag you — you usually get fragged.

    Two things:

    1. Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.
    2. This whole “everybody was out to get him” thing is a pile of crap. One of his many scandals was giving unauthorized raises to two aides.

    Speaking of “a pile of crap”, I will trust the judgment of well respected people who knew Scott Pruitt personally … like Hugh Hewitt (https://twitter.com/hughhewitt/status/1014979135716802561) … rather than the one-sided innuendo and personal vendettas from the DNC-run media … https://amgreatness.com/2018/06/19/the-press-will-stop-at-nothing-to-get-scott-pruitt/:

    Since the day after Trump was elected, the Times has published 526 articles about—or mentioning—Scott Pruitt. The paper’s obsession with the EPA chief is not professional or even political; it’s personal. And in its desperate attempt to take him out, the Times again relied on unverified hearsay that the paper ultimately had to correct—and yet without having to pay any sort of price. Only McKenna Pruitt will. Just as they hoped.

    Now that is appropriately defined as a “pile of crap.” With links.

    • #69
  10. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Oh good, Amgreatness.com. I’m sure we can turn to them for absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration. 

    • #70
  11. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Oh good, Amgreatness.com. I’m sure we can turn to them for absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration.

    More innuendo and laziness. You whine about links and then casually discard those presented.

    Refute the facts … 526 articles written by the NYT negatively mentioning Scott Pruitt. From the day after Trump was elected.

    This was before any of the “scandals” attributed to Scott Pruitt. You are awful quick to define someone as swamp and corrupt. At least when there is any connection to the 45th President of the United States. No?

    • #71
  12. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    iWe (View Comment):
    Pruitt was HATED by his people, and they set out to destroy him. They succeeded.

    True, but he didn’t have to supply them the ammunition . . .

    • #72
  13. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Oh good, Amgreatness.com. I’m sure we can turn to them for absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration.

    Well, they’re no Fred Cole, but they try.

    • #73
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Oh good, Amgreatness.com. I’m sure we can turn to them for absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration.

    I don’t know of any source, including yourself, that can give absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration. Do you?  

    • #74
  15. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Oh good, Amgreatness.com. I’m sure we can turn to them for absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration.

    I don’t know of any source, including yourself, that can give absolutely unbiased coverage of the Trump administration. Do you?

    Nope.  I don’t.

    But I do have a decent crap filter.  And I’m not going to waste time on Amgreatness.com.

    • #75
  16. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    Fragging incidents typically indicate leadership failures. Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.

    This is a very silly comment. It is simply impossible to be an anti-EPA head of the EPA and not be hated by your people.

    No rational person loves the guy who is trying to cut their power, and possibly your livelihood. Executioners are not loved by those on death row, especially if the media is egging the inmates on.

    • #76
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Stad (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):
    Pruitt was HATED by his people, and they set out to destroy him. They succeeded.

    True, but he didn’t have to supply them the ammunition . . .

    Anyone who wants to drain the swamp will supply them with all the ammunition they need just by living and breathing. However, there are a couple of items that it might have been better for Pruitt to leave out. Even Comrade Stalin had to wait for a couple of indiscretions before he could get rid of Bukharin and expand the Great Terror. (I use that as an example because I’ve been reading books on the subject recently.)   

    • #77
  18. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Stad (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):
    Pruitt was HATED by his people, and they set out to destroy him. They succeeded.

    True, but he didn’t have to supply them the ammunition . . .

    Not a single one of us could withstand that kind of undercutting without becoming either ineffective or “scandal-ridden”. Imagine having a bureaucracy watching your every move, trying to find fault. How many of you are technically violating some rule simply by being on Ricochet during your work day?

    Pruitt’s efforts at reducing environmental red tape have been breathtakingly successful – I cannot think of any other cabinet member in American history who has achieved anything like this.

    If the government is out to get you, they will. Only a fool or a hero sticks their head up to be shot at. Pruitt is no fool. He is a hero.

    • #78
  19. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    iWe (View Comment):

    This is a very silly comment. It is simply impossible to be an anti-EPA head of the EPA and NOT be hated by your people.

    No rational person loves the guy who is trying to cut their power, and possibly your livelihood. Executioners are NOT loved by those on death row, especially if the media is egging the inmates on.

    Ugh.  For crying out loud.

    I don’t [expletive] care about the [expletive] media.

    Look, the fact of the matter is that if Pruitt didn’t do stuff wrong, there’d be no bus to throw him under.  But Pruitt did do a lot of things wrong.  He’s tenure was the definition of “scandal ridden.”

    Pruitt brought this on himself.  Were there elements within the EPA trying to do him in, yeah, I’d imagine so.  Was the media eager to find a scandal there, sure.

    But it’s Pruitt who did this to himself.  This wasn’t some minor thing that brought him down.  There were a series of pretty serious scandals that show he didn’t belong in the job.  

    • #79
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    But I do have a decent crap filter. And I’m not going to waste time on Amgreatness.com.

    The exchange in this thread has exposed some defects in your crap filter.  The fact that you would find something like this relevant to the subject, for example: 

    “Well respected and effective leaders don’t typically get fragged.”

    • #80
  21. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    But it’s Pruitt who did this to himself. This wasn’t some minor thing that brought him down. There were a series of pretty serious scandals that show he didn’t belong in the job.

    Yet, if you have the deep state and the media running interference for you, you can do the same things as Pruitt did and not do any harm to yourself. So it is false to say that Pruitt did this to himself. It would not have happened if it was just him.

    • #81
  22. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Pruitt was the finest EPA administrator in agency history.  Of course he was hated and undermined by a staff committed wholeheartedly to a vast radical undemocratic takeover of the smallest details of American economic freedom.

    His transgressions are comically menial and predictable for a man floundering to pay the household bills for two homes.  Finding per diem digs, freeish toiletry items and a job for his talented underemployed wife!

    Has there been such a Sybarite in history:  Looking to buy a used mattress???

    Classic DC character assassination of a man no more flawed than every single person on this thread.

    Well, at least the Pruitt family economic woes are at an end.  Nice corner office practicing environmental law in DC.  $1,000/hr. plus.  First-class travel.  Recent Harvard Law grads scouting out favorite hand cream and preferred Sharpies on business trips.

    Brand new mattresses for all the Pruitts!

    Enjoy it all and thank you Mr. Pruitt.

     

    • #82
  23. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    Yet, if you have the deep state and the media running interference for you, you can do the same things as Pruitt did and not do any harm to yourself. So it is false to say that Pruitt did this to himself. It would not have happened if it was just him.

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him use staff to help his wife secure a Chick-fil-A franchise?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him fly first class on airlines at taxpayer expense?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him take a security detail on those trips?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him rent a condo from the wife of an energy lobbyist?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him give unauthorized raises to his staff?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him keep a secret calendar to avoid public accountability?

     

     

    • #83
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    Yet, if you have the deep state and the media running interference for you, you can do the same things as Pruitt did and not do any harm to yourself. So it is false to say that Pruitt did this to himself. It would not have happened if it was just him.

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him use staff to help his wife secure a Chick-fil-A franchise?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him fly first class on airlines at taxpayer expense?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him take a security detail on those trips?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him rent a condo from the wife of an energy lobbyist?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him give unauthorized raises to his staff?

    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him keep a secret calendar to avoid public accountability?

    The fact that you ignored the point I made even while quoting it shows some of the defects of your case against Pruitt.  

    • #84
  25. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    The fact that you ignored the point I made even while quoting it shows some of the defects of your case against Pruitt.

    That’s because I read it four times (now six) and I still can’t untangle it.

    • #85
  26. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    But Pruitt did do a lot of things wrong. He’s tenure was the definition of “scandal ridden.”

    OK. Let’s take one of these examples, one trumpeted by someone who truly hates the man.

    New York Times:

    his insistence that his security detail drive him from Ritz-Carlton to Ritz-Carlton on the hunt for his favorite lotion.

    and

    Staffers also reported being asked to pick up dry cleaning, find a particular lotion and help arrange personal travel for Pruitt and his family. Federal ethics codes bar staffers from conducting personal errands for bosses.

    Oh, the horror. What a complete swamp creature Pruitt is. How utterly revolting.

    He wanted a particular product.  So he hunted for it. Himself. But he has a security detail because Pruitt receives repeated credible death threats, so they came along. What an incredible abuse of power.

    Seriously, Fred?

    Either the rules apply or they do not. Hillary’s staffers certainly “picked up her dry cleaning.” Who else do you think did it?! Can you find a single example of Hillary Clinton or Obama picking up dry cleaning? The rules do not apply to Democrats, but Pruitt is scandal-ridden?

     

    • #86
  27. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him take a security detail on those trips?

    Was Steve Scalise wrong to take a security detail to baseball practice?

    • #87
  28. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    iWe (View Comment):
    Oh, the horror. What a complete swamp creature Pruitt is. How utterly revolting.

     

    You’re right.  You definitely cherry picked the most mild of all the allegations.  I mean, you cherry picked the one I wouldn’t have even bother to list.

    • #88
  29. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him take a security detail on those trips?

    Was Steve Scalise wrong to take a security detail to baseball practice?

    Yeah, dude.  Because that’s totally what we’re talking about here.

    • #89
  30. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    Basil Fawlty (View Comment):

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    So it’s the deep state and the media who made him take a security detail on those trips?

    Was Steve Scalise wrong to take a security detail to baseball practice?

    Yeah, dude. Because that’s totally what we’re talking about here.

    He was wrong to take a security detail to baseball practice?

    • #90
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