Christian Theology and the Jews

 

Since I sometimes write about Christians and Jews, I’ll weigh in on the criticisms of the pastors who spoke at the US Jerusalem Embassy dedication.

I respect that many Christians believe that salvation is only through belief in Christ.

And religious leaders who think Hitler was part of God’s plan? Hardly surprising. And not a good reason to be offended.

Believe whatever you want about what happens to me after my death. And I should hope your theology has an explanation for Hitler.

I have more than enough religious tolerance to not judge these men negatively for such beliefs.

I do fear those who call on their followers to hurt me. And those who minimize their evil statements and actions, and who want me to be vulnerable to them.

I also fear those who try to shame and exclude religious leaders because of beliefs that are not tied to calls to violent action.

But I’m fine with those who will let God decide how to reward or punish me for my beliefs and actions. Especially if those leaders are making common cause with me in this world, and affirming God’s relationship with the Jewish people.

Thank you Pastors Jeffress and Hagee for your support and your kind words. Sorry about the bigots trying to hurt you and drive us apart.

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  1. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    iWe (View Comment):

    Ontheleftcoast (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):
    What’s worse, the idea that the Holocaust was meaningless, or that God somehow works it into his plans? Those are really the only two options right?

    Not to me.

    The Holocaust was a reminder that we are responsible for evil. G-d did not cause it – he enabled it by allowing mankind free will. We are to blame for the Holocaust.

    The last sentence is a bit off. “We” in the sense that the possibility of a Holocaust is intrinsic to our free will. Not in the sense that all living people share personal responsibility with the shrinking number of Holocaust perpetrators and enablers still alive today.

    Whenever something bad happens, “we” are responsible – if not for our action, for our inaction. G-d won’t stop evildoers – that is our job.

    Yes to “something bad.” I read @bobw as referring specifically to the Holocaust.

    • #31
  2. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):
    The Holocaust was a reminder that we are responsible for evil. G-d did not cause it – he enabled it by allowing mankind free will. We are to blame for the Holocaust.

    No “we ” here. I am responsible for my own evil. The ones who were active or complicit in the holocaust, are responsible for it only. Sin is not shared unless we indeed share the same deed. Free agency . Other than the Adamic sin we all inherit. If that is what you meant.

    Well, I thought it was clear that by “we” you meant “the human race”. 

    • #32
  3. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    iWe (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):
    However, knowing we will never be sinnless in this life, confession is a regular need.

    Different approaches, for sure!

    The danger/extreme in Christianity, especially Protestant forms, is that the believer can become so fixated on the internal disposition of his faith that he is always doubting whether he has enough faith. Works aren’t the main focus, so faith, which is subjective, becomes hard to live up to.

     A Jew is basically free from this. He believes that what matters is keeping God’s commandments, which the Jew, unlike many Christians, believes is in fact possible. So there is an objective measure of whether a Jew is successful religiously: am I keeping the commandments? This is potentially a liberating way of relating to God, because you’re more free than a Christian of always worrying about what is lurking in your sinful intentions. It’s almost as if God is saying, “Don’t worry about what’s going on in your head, just do what I tell you.” But the extreme of course is that it can more easily devolve into mere legalism.    

    Different approaches, and different ways it can become unhealthy as well. 

    • #33
  4. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Bob W (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):
    However, knowing we will never be sinnless in this life, confession is a regular need.

    Different approaches, for sure!

    The danger/extreme in Christianity, especially Protestant forms, is that the believer can become so fixated on the internal disposition of his faith that he is always doubting whether he has enough faith. Works aren’t the main focus, so faith, which is subjective, becomes hard to live up to.

    A Jew is basically free from this. He believes that what matters is keeping God’s commandments, which the Jew, unlike many Christians, believes is in fact possible. So there is an objective measure of whether a Jew is successful religiously: am I keeping the commandments? This is potentially a liberating way of relating to God, because you’re more free than a Christian of always worrying about what is lurking in your sinful intentions. It’s almost as if God is saying, “Don’t worry about what’s going on in your head, just do what I tell you.” But the extreme of course is that it can more easily devolve into mere legalism.

    Different approaches, and different ways it can become unhealthy as well.

    As I’ve been told on several occasions: “I said it was simple, I didn’t say it was easy.”

    • #34
  5. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Bob W (View Comment):
    This is potentially a liberating way of relating to God, because you’re more free than a Christian of always worrying about what is lurking in your sinful intentions.

    This is correct.

    I am not bothered by passing bad thoughts – what matters is what I say and do.

    • #35
  6. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    iWe (View Comment):

    Bob W (View Comment):
    This is potentially a liberating way of relating to God, because you’re more free than a Christian of always worrying about what is lurking in your sinful intentions.

    This is correct.

    I am not bothered by passing bad thoughts – what matters is what I say and do.

    As the Buddhist flavored bumper sticker says: “DON’T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK,” although if the car also has “MY OTHER VEHICLE IS THE MAHAYANA” I tend to think the driver is pretentious.

     

     

     

    Not making this up. 5 or 10 years ago, lower deck of the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge.

    • #36
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    I am an amateur observer of this stuff. Due to some personal factors and the fact that I don’t believe in uncaused causes, I’ve had to get in to it. 

    I listen to Dennis Prager quite closely (I’ve bought a bunch of his speeches and I get his podcast) and the way Jews use aphorisms and talk about things seems to me to develop people and productive, civil society in a really good way. I’ve gone to some educational things at a synagog here, and I got the same thing from those guys. They had different people doing the “sermon” beforehand and they were all spectacular. I like the focus on the now. 

    I grew up in a Congregational UCC church, but I think because I’ve got personality disorders on both sides of my family tree, I never got an affinity for it. 

    • #37
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