Government Workers Threaten Strikes, Demand More Pay

 

Public teachers striking? Someone has to say it: Who do these public servants, these government employees, think they are to make demands of the public and our elected representatives? The way politicians fawn over this set of government employees is topped only by British MPs prostrating themselves before the temple of the National Health Service.

Let’s be clear. Teachers are not nobler than nurses or nurses’ aides. Teachers do not matter more than plumbers or mechanics. Teachers matter less to our civilization then sewer workers and police. And educrats, hiding behind classroom teachers, are leaders in social decay and loss of real learning. While police have job protection similar to teachers, none of the other professions or trades cited do, and none of the others are able to demand wage increases without fear of job loss.

If government workers want new contracts, it is time to demand pay be tied to results — for the children!

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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    danok1 (View Comment):
    He even wrote a column for a magazine in the ’80s about the quality of teachers and the apparent uselessness of some of the licensing exams.

    It was that way in the ’80’s, too. I remember reading a ranking of GRE/GMAT scores by major back then.

    • #31
  2. Mike-K Member
    Mike-K
    @

    TBA (View Comment):
    what kind of nonsense the state would not tolerate in a teacher. 

    What do you think they are taught now ?

    • #32
  3. Mike-K Member
    Mike-K
    @

    danok1 (View Comment):
    He even wrote a column for a magazine in the ’80s about the quality of teachers and the apparent uselessness of some of the licensing exams.

    My first wife went back to teaching when she got laid off in a bank merger in the late 80s. California was trying to reduce class size. New teachers were required to take a test called “CBEST” which she said was 8th grade level math and English. She had a lifetime credential. There were lots of complaints about the test being “racist.” 

    She was horrified by the teachers she met went she went back. She had not taught since 1965 when our son was born. They ridiculed their students, had no interest in what they were doing and did not help each other. She complimented a second grade teacher on her students reading readiness (she was teaching third grade.) and the woman burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her on her teaching.

    She quit after 6 months to go back to banking. She used to see the principal in the supermarket. He tried to talk her into coming back to teaching.

    • #33
  4. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    She complimented a second grade teacher on her students reading readiness (she was teaching third grade.) and the woman burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her on her teaching.

    Wow, but yeah.

    My nephew works in a school where most of the teachers and students are Hispanic. He’s even more Anglo than I am, and did not speak Spanish. The administrators and other teachers wanted to get rid of him, but then the test scores came back. His students were actually learning English and scoring much higher than others in the school, and they needed the standardized test scores. I don’t know if he’s still at the same school, but it was an interesting situation.

    • #34
  5. T-Fiks Member
    T-Fiks
    @TFiks

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    She complimented a second grade teacher on her students reading readiness (she was teaching third grade.) and the woman burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her on her teaching.

    Wow, but yeah.

    My nephew works in a school where most of the teachers and students are Hispanic. He’s even more Anglo than I am, and did not speak Spanish. The administrators and other teachers wanted to get rid of him, but then the test scores came back. His students were actually learning English and scoring much higher than others in the school, and they needed the standardized test scores. I don’t know if he’s still at the same school, but it was an interesting situation.

    Sadly, academics make a Faustian bargain when they join the giant public education bureaucracy. They ally themselves with an institution that really doesn’t value education. It values public approval instead. Those teachers who want to challenge their students with high standards fight constant headwinds which originate from both parents (at least many of them) and administrators.

    The anecdotes cited above are rarities. Administrators hide aggregate student test results on AP exams for teachers in their building and district. They do this to protect those AP teachers who lower their standards as a way to accommodate the large numbers of mediocre students who are encouraged to enroll in AP courses. Thus, the image of racial and social class equality in their programs is promoted.

    The emphasis on graduation rates has the same pernicious effect on individual teachers.

    In grades below the secondary education level, these same efforts to obscure the instructional success or failure of individual teachers happen. For one, it’s hard to measure, given the varying student populations in different teachers’ classrooms. Second, it would be a political nightmare for administrators if there were concrete indicators of which teachers were successfully educating their students and which were not.

    So, as an educator, you play the game and hope you’re charming enough to be demanding and still get away with it.

    • #35
  6. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    T-Fiks (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    She complimented a second grade teacher on her students reading readiness (she was teaching third grade.) and the woman burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her on her teaching.

    Wow, but yeah.

    My nephew works in a school where most of the teachers and students are Hispanic. He’s even more Anglo than I am, and did not speak Spanish. The administrators and other teachers wanted to get rid of him, but then the test scores came back. His students were actually learning English and scoring much higher than others in the school, and they needed the standardized test scores. I don’t know if he’s still at the same school, but it was an interesting situation.

     

    The anecdotes cited above are rarities. Administrators hide aggregate student test results on AP exams for teachers in their building and district. They do this to protect those AP teachers who lower their standards as a way to accommodate the large numbers of mediocre students who are encouraged to enroll in AP courses. Thus, the image of racial and social class equality in their programs is promoted.

    And then there is the recent advance of the Left through the AP tests to enforce their ideology on any who aspire to university success. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/12/ap-history-repeats-itself.php

    The need for a rival assessment organization is reinforced by the fact that College Board pulled the same stunts with regard to AP US History that it now has done with APEH. Initially, as we discussed here, it mandated a blatantly far left-wing framework for teaching the history of our country. When NAS and others balked, it made some improvements, but they were largely cosmetic.

    • #36
  7. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Mike-K (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):
    what kind of nonsense the state would not tolerate in a teacher.

    What do you think they are taught now ?

    That the state will tolerate quite a lot of nonsense as well as poor outcomes for students. 

    • #37
  8. Stephen Bishop Inactive
    Stephen Bishop
    @StephenBishop

    Margaret Thatcher’s attitude was, if you don’t want to work for the government I’ll privatize you. She did.

    • #38
  9. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Everything you say is true, but the public education system can’t be fixed by simple things like tying pay to performance or any other technical bureaucratic fix.  The public education system as it exists today is destroying millions of children at a very high cost per student.  The educational bureaucracy is worse then superfluous.  New Zealand eliminated all of the educational bureaucracy and turned schools over to parents and teachers but allowed every parent to send their children to any school in the country.  The money followed the children  so schools had to compete for students. New Zealand education went from the bottom of the industrialised world to just below Finland and Singapore.  While we’re too big to do such a thing and indeed we don’t need the Federal government involved at all, there are important lessons.   Parents care more and know their children better than remote bureaucrats and teachers and parents know who the good teachers are.

    • #39
  10. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    I Walton (View Comment):
    While we’re too big to do such a thing and indeed we don’t need the Federal government involved at all, there are important lessons.

    Could do it per state, though.

    • #40
  11. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    I Walton (View Comment):
    The public education system as it exists today is destroying millions of children at a very high cost per student.

    Really over-the-top destruction costs more. Just ask Michael Bay.

    • #41
  12. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Arahant (View Comment):

    I Walton (View Comment):
    The public education system as it exists today is destroying millions of children at a very high cost per student.

    Really over-the-top destruction costs more. Just ask Michael Bay.

     That’s sort of what I had in mind, without simulation and special effects.

    • #42
  13. Ralphie Inactive
    Ralphie
    @Ralphie

    Mike-K (View Comment):

    How would reducing the cost of a teaching certificate improve the quality of teachers?

    Free teachers’ colleges were a tradition many years ago. I don’t know that it would improve quality but student loans are probably a factor in the constant agitation for more money.

    My son’s third grade teacher didn’t go to college. She went to normal school.  She was a really good teacher, one of his best.  

     

    • #43
  14. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Pugshot (View Comment):Not that I have any great love for the teachers’ unions, but I’d just point out that the chart doesn’t account for the effort put in on education by the students themselves, which I suspect may have diminished as so many demands on their time impinge on their education. It’s not like education is a meal that the teachers are expected to simply spoon feed to the students; the students have to actually put some effort into learning.

    I would also  point out that this falls on the parents.  How well are parents doing at motivating or coercing their children to study hard and to do their homework?  A few ethnic groups are particularly strong in this area, i.e. Jews and Asians.  With other groups, the high number of single parent households does not help matters.

    • #44
  15. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    I have always been perplexed by big cities caving into teacher demands.  I don’t see that happening in small or rural cities.  My guess is that because the big cities are run almost exclusively be Democrats, they feel compelled to go along with whatever demands the teachers union makes.  But why do they have to?  Maybe I am missing something, but why can’t a big city just fire all the teachers who refuse to show up for work and hire a whole new set of teachers?  Especially during the last eight years when so many people have been out of work, there should be thousands of people willing to replace them.

    I once looked up average teacher salaries in different cities and found that all the highest salaries are in the big cities where the teachers often go on strike.  It seems to me that the Republicans in smaller cities simply don’t put up with strikes.

    • #45
  16. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating…

    No less a Progressive than FDR opposed strikes by public employees…

    ” Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.”

    – Excerpt from a letter from FDR to Mr. Luther C. Steward, President, National Federation of Federal Employees.   1937

    • #46
  17. Misthiocracy, Joke Pending Member
    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending
    @Misthiocracy

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending (View Comment):

    One problem is that civil servants don’t realize that they are the government.

    They think of themselves as mere servants of the government, and therefore that they are heroically fighting “the man” when they go on strike.

    It’s not true. Civil servants are “the man”. It’s the elected officials who are actually trying to fight “the man” when they try to limit the privileges, entitlements, and power of civil servants.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs&t=52s

    That is because they are Democrats. A Democrat, in a Democrat ran state, in a Democrat ran county, in a Democrat ran city, with a Democrat ran police and a Democrat ran school board, all of which has been in Democrat control for decades is constant at war with Republicans. / the man because they are being oppressed and mistreated by the racist, tyrannical system.

    a) I think you have the causal relationship backwards. They are not civil servants because they are Democrats.  They are Democrats because they are civil servants.  If your livelihood depends on the power of government, are you going to vote for the party that promises to reduce the power of government?

    b) Civil servants aren’t always Democrats.  Lots of law enforcement, firefighting, and military officials are Republicans.  By an amazing coincidence, many Republican politicians consistently campaign on more resources for law enforcement, firefighting, and the military.

    • #47
  18. Misthiocracy, Joke Pending Member
    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending
    @Misthiocracy

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating…

    No less a Progressive than FDR opposed strikes by public employees…

    Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.”

    – Excerpt from a letter from FDR to Mr. Luther C. Steward, President, National Federation of Federal Employees. 1937

    I am sure it’s just an amazing coincidence that there’s a correlation between the rise in the number of government employees have been given the right to strike and the rise in the number of government employees who don’t perform functions that are absolutely vital to the interests and welfare of the people.

    • #48
  19. Misthiocracy, Joke Pending Member
    Misthiocracy, Joke Pending
    @Misthiocracy

    TBA (View Comment):

    Mike-K (View Comment):

    How would reducing the cost of a teaching certificate improve the quality of teachers?

    Free teachers’ colleges were a tradition many years ago. I don’t know that it would improve quality but student loans are probably a factor in the constant agitation for more money.

    Imagine the benefits of a state teaching teachers to teach what the state believed should be taught, how the state would be supporting them as they taught, and what kind of nonsense the state would not tolerate in a teacher.

    How is that different from the current system of teacher education?  The teachers colleges do teach teachers to teach what the state wants to be taught, and what nonsense the state will not tolerate.  The problem is that what the state wants and what conservatives want are very different things.

    • #49
  20. Arizona Patriot Member
    Arizona Patriot
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Mike-K (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Tucson, in Pima County is what I would call Blue

    My area of Tucson voted for Trump. There is a guy who runs a local blog and had the election results posted. Across Ina it was all Hillary.

    This comment is highly local, as you have to know Tucson well to understand neighborhood patterns.

    I haven’t seen the map myself, but I would think that the Trump territory was north of Ina and the Hillary territory was south of Ina.  Is this correct?

    I also would think that it depends on which part of Ina you are referencing, and it might be an artifact of precinct or Congressional district lines.  I would think that many areas just south of Ina (say around First and Oracle) are Republican, while the Democrats might dominate a bit further west.  Also, the area south of Ina is probably combined with much poorer regions (like the Flowing Wells area) that I would expect to tilt heavily toward the Democrats.

    You are certainly correct that overall, both Pima County as a whole and the Tucson metro area are blue.  Trump won the state 49-45, while Hillary carried Pima County 54-40.

    • #50
  21. barbara lydick Inactive
    barbara lydick
    @barbaralydick

    TBA (View Comment):
    Perhaps instead of increased pay, the state could handle some of the student debt.

    The more gov’t money available, the higher the tuition costs for colleges and universities become.  (Money that’s used to hire more educrats and other non-essential school personnel.)

    Mike-K (View Comment):
    but student loans are probably a factor in the constant agitation for more money.

    Vicious cycle.

    • #51
  22. Mike-K Member
    Mike-K
    @

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):
    I would think that the Trump territory was north of Ina and the Hillary territory was south of Ina. Is this correct?

    Yup. His blog is here.    http://lukeknipe.com/

     

    • #52
  23. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    barbara lydick (View Comment):

    The more gov’t money available, the higher the tuition costs for colleges and universities become. (Money that’s used to hire more educrats and other non-essential school personnel.)

     

    That is a fact, though if the payout was only available to people who signed an X-year contract, we might get some of those higher caliber teachers we keep talking about. 

    • #53
  24. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Addendum: My sister-in-law is an AZ teacher. Apparently the 20% raise is over the course of three years, comes after many years of not getting an indexed-to-inflation raise, and is paid for in part by removing money from the school budgets. 

    None of this sounds like a deal-breaker to me, but I thought I should mention it in the interests of accuracy. 

    • #54
  25. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    TBA (View Comment):

    Addendum: My sister-in-law is an AZ teacher. Apparently the 20% raise is over the course of three years, comes after many years of not getting an indexed-to-inflation raise, and is paid for in part by removing money from the school budgets.

    None of this sounds like a deal-breaker to me, but I thought I should mention it in the interests of accuracy.

    Yes, the governor and legislate offered 20% over three years, but that isn’t good enough for the #Red4Ed organizers. They still pushed walkouts. 20% over three years is 6.67% each year. What trade in the private sector is getting that?

    The lack of inflation adjustment over many years affected many workers, who are not getting such large raises now. It does appear that the state legislature is trying to solve the problem of local district boards diverting money to administrative overhead instead of prioritizing classroom instruction.

    • #55
  26. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Addendum: My sister-in-law is an AZ teacher. Apparently the 20% raise is over the course of three years, comes after many years of not getting an indexed-to-inflation raise, and is paid for in part by removing money from the school budgets.

    None of this sounds like a deal-breaker to me, but I thought I should mention it in the interests of accuracy.

    Yes, the governor and legislate offered 20% over three years, but that isn’t good enough for the #Red4Ed organizers. They still pushed walkouts. 20% over three years is 6.67% each year. What trade in the private sector is getting that?

    The lack of inflation adjustment over many years affected many workers, who are not getting such large raises now. It does appear that the state legislature is trying to solve the problem of local district boards diverting money to administrative overhead instead of prioritizing classroom instruction.

    I am not arguing a position, I am clarifying the facts with more specific information. 

    • #56
  27. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    TBA (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Addendum: My sister-in-law is an AZ teacher. Apparently the 20% raise is over the course of three years, comes after many years of not getting an indexed-to-inflation raise, and is paid for in part by removing money from the school budgets.

    None of this sounds like a deal-breaker to me, but I thought I should mention it in the interests of accuracy.

    Yes, the governor and legislate offered 20% over three years, but that isn’t good enough for the #Red4Ed organizers. They still pushed walkouts. 20% over three years is 6.67% each year. What trade in the private sector is getting that?

    The lack of inflation adjustment over many years affected many workers, who are not getting such large raises now. It does appear that the state legislature is trying to solve the problem of local district boards diverting money to administrative overhead instead of prioritizing classroom instruction.

    I am not arguing a position, I am clarifying the facts with more specific information.

    Thanks. I should have replied in that tone. The pay for by removing from school budgets move is an attempt to stop local districts taking lump sum budgets and allocating away from the classroom. Instructional funding within school budgets reportedly decreased over the past decade from 57% to 54%. So, it sounds plausible that there will be a viable deal done without tax increases.

    • #57
  28. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Addendum: My sister-in-law is an AZ teacher. Apparently the 20% raise is over the course of three years, comes after many years of not getting an indexed-to-inflation raise, and is paid for in part by removing money from the school budgets.

    None of this sounds like a deal-breaker to me, but I thought I should mention it in the interests of accuracy.

    Yes, the governor and legislate offered 20% over three years, but that isn’t good enough for the #Red4Ed organizers. They still pushed walkouts. 20% over three years is 6.67% each year. What trade in the private sector is getting that?

    The lack of inflation adjustment over many years affected many workers, who are not getting such large raises now. It does appear that the state legislature is trying to solve the problem of local district boards diverting money to administrative overhead instead of prioritizing classroom instruction.

    I am not arguing a position, I am clarifying the facts with more specific information.

    Thanks. I should have replied in that tone. The pay for by removing from school budgets move is an attempt to stop local districts taking lump sum budgets and allocating away from the classroom. Instructional funding within school budgets reportedly decreased over the past decade from 57% to 54%. So, it sounds plausible that there will be a viable deal done without tax increases.

    I don’t have the graph handy, but school spending doesn’t at all correlate to grades/skill mastery. We have low-grade teachers with too many toys. We have low-grade students who know very well they’re being warehoused but have no particular belief that doing better or worse in school actually means anything. To a degree they are correct in that belief. There is a huge disconnect between education and actual productive work – this is not a plea for businesses to take over education (though it’s fun to mention it to educators and watch them recoil as a vampire from a cross). 

    • #58
  29. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    The strong positive social construction of “teachers” becomes open to the kind of challenge I posed in the OP when a state leader of #RedForEd is a politically inept woke “Arizona elementary teacher.”

    • #59
  30. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    The strong positive social construction of “teachers” becomes open to the kind of challenge I posed in the OP when a state leader of #RedForEd is a politically inept woke “Arizona elementary teacher.”

    Wow. They really need to work on their poster children. 

    I noticed that he mentioned ‘eighth-grade women’. wth? 

    • #60
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