A Problem on the Right

 

Let’s make one thing clear. According to the left, you don’t deserve to have an opinion. They don’t care about your input. They are not interested in finding a way to live together in peace and harmony. They see you as a Nazi, a threat, deplorable, a virus on the earth. They want you and your worldview gone. To them, you are a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic bigot and therefore your opinion doesn’t matter. Why, then, do we on the right continue to engage in political debate as if we are too above the fray to take the gloves off? Why do our representatives talk about “taking the high ground” and maintaining a civilized political discourse? The left isn’t looking to debate the opposition; they are looking to destroy it.

The left has made their intentions clear. A recent opinion piece by Tim Kreider published in the New York Times titled, “Go Ahead Millennials, Destroy Us” sets forth in no uncertain terms a long-standing leftist theme: Destruction of Western Values and Institutions. In Kreider’s article, published March 2, 2018, he implores America’s youth, “Go get us.” He states:

My message, as an aging Gen X-er to millennials and those coming after them, is: Go get us. Take us down – all those cringing provincials who still think climate change is a hoax, that being transgender is a fad or that “socialism” means purges and re-education camps. Rid the world of all our outmoded opinions, vestigial prejudices and rotten institutions. Gender roles as disfiguring as foot-binding, the moribund and vampiric two-party system, the savage theology of capitalism – rip it all to the ground. I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

Take us down? Rid the world of our outmoded opinions? Rip it all to the ground? This was not on the pages of some fringe leftist blog hidden in the depths of the Internet. This was in the New York Times. The New York Times! To be certain, destruction of western institutions and values is a cornerstone of leftism.

Yet, for years we have allowed the insurgency of “progressive” ideas to pass relatively unchallenged into our educational system, political system, media, and culture. Now, universities across America are unrecognizable, pop culture figures rally against all things America, God has been forced out of public discourse, the media has become a propaganda arm for the left. It is clearer than ever that the left has never been interested in a different set of policies, they are interested in a different set of values. The Left pushes the narrative that a faith-based worldview, pride in American historical achievements, dedication to personal responsibility, tolerance for opposing opinions, support for the freedom of speech are all radical far-right ideas. Our belief in judging individuals on the merits of their choices rather than the group they belong to is extreme. Our trust in the sanctity of liberty is dangerous. Our insistence that we adhere to the rule of law is just a manifestation of our disgusting racist and sexist attitudes toward those who break it. These are the claims they make against us, and the values we pursue. The conversation is rarely about policy or programs. It is nearly always about how evil you are and how many people you hate.

As the culture wars advance from one front to another, we on the right make like Neville Chamberlain and cede ground one issue at a time hoping that our appeasement will stop the left’s advance. We hope that by giving in we can stop the assaults on our character, win points with young voters, and quiet the left’s fiery opposition to our lifestyles existence.

The Left has not stopped its advance. It will not stop their advance. Not until all opposing opinion is, in the words of Tim Kreider, “rid from the world” and all institutions of the patriarchal, imperialist, racist America have been burned to the ground.

The American Right has played nice, acted with moral distinction and sought civil discourse. We implored our fellow conservatives to avoid “stooping to their level” and remain dignified because we are “principled” and going on the offense is somehow beneath us. Would you not lose your civility to stop harm to your child’s body? Why then do you justify holding back when they come after that which is far more precious, their minds and their souls? We’ve stood tall and kept our collars clean and our slacks pressed. We’ve looked the part of the intellectual and have patted ourselves on the back for acting like the adults in the room. Where has that left us? Where has that left the American experiment? Where has that left our children’s future?

If we are truly principled, we must be willing to fight for what we believe in. We must be willing to crawl in the muck of the trenches when necessary. We must be willing to fight them in the courtrooms and the classrooms. We must be willing to fight them on street corners and television screens. We must be willing to fight them on Facebook and Youtube. We must be willing to produce content that informs and entertains. We must reinsert ourselves into the arts and into storytelling. We must capture imaginations, not just stimulate brain cells. We must appreciate the impact of passion and culture as much as we appreciate the value of reason and policy. We must inspire as well as inform.

For the sake of clarity, I do not advocate the abandonment of adherence to principles of liberty and truth. I am not advocating that we infringe on people’s rights to free speech or slander the innocent. I am advocating the use of the tactic of direct confrontation. I advocate abruptly confronting their ideas with better ideas. I am advocating that we expand our presence in media and culture. I am advocating that we call them out for what they actually are rather than tip-toeing around it. The left has gotten a free pass because we, as conservatives, are too scared of the backlash that may result or the personal consequences of outing ourselves as conservatives. Far from restricting speech or lying, I simply want us to open the opportunities for people to hear our message in a way that is not handcuffed by our own filters. Filters created out of fear to fight back.

When we fight them we will be called names, disrespected, disavowed, disenfranchised and lied about. We may be made outcast amongst those we respect. But as said by Thomas Paine, “Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.” If we truly are principled we must show our children that the left does not have a monopoly on passion or the tenacity to fight for their values. We must be willing to show them that our ideas are worth fighting for. We must be willing to fight for what we believe or be willing to watch it all fade away.

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  1. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Right on. 

    Expect though to be called names from the right too. 

    • #1
  2. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    I understand the urge to fight fire with fire, but on some level, if we just give in and use their tactics and methods then we end up in the same place we are trying to stop them from taking us. 

    If we start to shut down speech about lefty causes, demand alternate thinking be shunned, and rely on lies and slander to win elections, we may well see Republicans in charge, but we still lose America as founded. 

    I wish there were a great answer to how to respond to their illiberal tactics, but it does us little good to win if we destroy the prize in the fight. 

    • #2
  3. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    PHenry (View Comment):

    I understand the urge to fight fire with fire, but on some level, if we just give in and use their tactics and methods then we end up in the same place we are trying to stop them from taking us.

    If we start to shut down speech about lefty causes, demand alternate thinking be shunned, and rely on lies and slander to win elections, we may well see Republicans in charge, but we still lose America as founded.

    I wish there were a great answer to how to respond to their illiberal tactics, but it does us little good to win if we destroy the prize in the fight.

    You illustrate the Neville Chamberlain world view perfectly.

     

    • #3
  4. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    PHenry (View Comment):

    If we start to shut down speech about lefty causes, demand alternate thinking be shunned, and rely on lies and slander to win elections, we may well see Republicans in charge, but we still lose America as founded.

     

    It is worth saying that I am not advocating that we infringe on people’s rights. I am advocating using the tactics of direct confrontation of their ideas with better ideas. I am advocating that we expand our presence in media and culture. I am advocating that we call them out for what they actually are rather than tip-toeing around it. The left has gotten a free pass because we, as conservatives, are too scared of the backlash that may result or the personal consequences of outing ourselves as conservatives. Far from restricting speech or lying, I simply want us to open the opportunities for people to hear our message in a way that is not handcuffed by our own filters. Filters created out of fear to fight back.

    • #4
  5. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):
    You illustrate the Neville Chamberlain world view perfectly.

    I’m not suggesting surrender, or hiding from the threat!  I’m just saying that if we devolve in to a more vicious version of them, we still lose. 

    • #5
  6. TheSockMonkey Inactive
    TheSockMonkey
    @TheSockMonkey

    RyanKasak: Why, then, do we on the right continue to engage in political debate as if we are too above the fray to take the gloves off? Why do our representatives talk about “taking the high ground” and maintaining a civilized political discourse? The left isn’t looking to debate the opposition; they are looking to destroy it.

    I’m glad you clarified what you meant.

    RyanKasak: If we are truly principled, we must be willing to fight for what we believe in. We must be willing to crawl in the muck of the trenches when necessary. We must be willing to fight them in the courtrooms and the classrooms. We must be willing to fight them on street corners and television screens. We must be willing to fight them on Facebook and Youtube. We must be willing to produce content that informs and entertains. We must reinsert ourselves into the arts and into storytelling. We must capture imaginations, not just stimulate brain cells. We must appreciate the impact of passion and culture as much as we appreciate the value of reason and policy. We must inspire as well as inform.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people are just going to dismiss what you’re saying, because they think you’re talking about abandoning our principles, and just fighting dirty.

    If I’m reading you correctly, though, I agree with you.

     

    • #6
  7. TheSockMonkey Inactive
    TheSockMonkey
    @TheSockMonkey

    RyanKasak (View Comment):

    It is worth saying that I am not advocating that we infringe on people’s rights. I am advocating using the tactics of diect confrontation of their ideas with better ideas. I am advocating that we expan our presence in media and culture. I am advocating that we call them out for what they actually are rather then tip-toeing around it. The left has gotten a free pass because we, as conservatives, are too scared of the backlash that may result or the personal consequences of outing ourselves as conservatives. Far from restricting speech or lying, I simply want us to open the opportunities for people to hear our message in a way that is not handcuffed by our own filters. Filters created out of fear to fight back.

    Thank you for saying this. I’ve never been the target of the SJW right-shaming brigades, and I don’t know how well I’d stand up, but we’ve heard far too many Americans talk about being afraid to live by their convictions. But when we let them win, well, we let them win.

    • #7
  8. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    TheSockMonkey (View Comment):

    RyanKasak: Why, then, do we on the right continue to engage in political debate as if we are too above the fray to take the gloves off? Why do our representatives talk about “taking the high ground” and maintaining a civilized political discourse? The left isn’t looking to debate the opposition; they are looking to destroy it.

    I’m glad you clarified what you meant.

    RyanKasak: If we are truly principled, we must be willing to fight for what we believe in. We must be willing to crawl in the muck of the trenches when necessary. We must be willing to fight them in the courtrooms and the classrooms. We must be willing to fight them on street corners and television screens. We must be willing to fight them on Facebook and Youtube. We must be willing to produce content that informs and entertains. We must reinsert ourselves into the arts and into storytelling. We must capture imaginations, not just stimulate brain cells. We must appreciate the impact of passion and culture as much as we appreciate the value of reason and policy. We must inspire as well as inform.

    Unfortunately, a lot of people are just going to dismiss what you’re saying, because they think you’re talking about abandoning our principles, and just fighting dirty.

    If I’m reading you correctly, though, I agree with you.

    Thank you for the feedback. I actually just added a paragraph to hopefully clarify my intent.

    • #8
  9. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    RyanKasak (View Comment):
    It is worth saying that I am not advocating that we infringe on people’s rights. I am advocating using the tactics of direct confrontation of their ideas with better ideas.

    Right.  We can’t let them cow us with their slander and with the labels they apply.  We have to be willing to state the truth, even when we know it is likely to be publicly mocked and condemned as hate, racist, etc and so on. 

    I’m not saying don’t fight, just don’t lose sight of what we are fighting for… 

     

     

    • #9
  10. Jim Beck Inactive
    Jim Beck
    @JimBeck

    Afternoon Ryan, Sock, PHenry,

    I do not think that the changes in our culture, our understanding of personal and civic  responsibility, the function of government, have occurred because the left presented better ideas or had a better understanding of human nature.  The left has been effective because they are speaking to the gut, heart, the emotions.  That type of persuasion works, humans, as Heilein said, are not rational animals but rationalizing animals,  we can make up a reason for our choices, as in, fairness, compassion, “common sense” at the drop of a hat.  If we are to fight back we will have to work in that arena, if we imagine that our arguments if presented strongly, vigorously, enthusiastically will on their own persuade our fellow citizens that the conservative ideas are better, we will continue to fail.

    • #10
  11. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    Jim Beck (View Comment):

    Afternoon Ryan, Sock, PHenry,

    I do not think that the changes in our culture, our understanding of personal and civic responsibility, the function of government, have occurred because the left presented better ideas or had a better understanding of human nature. The left has been effective because they are speaking to the gut, heart, the emotions. That type of persuasion works, humans, as Heilein said, are not rational animals but rationalizing animals, we can make up a reason for our choices, as in, fairness, compassion, “common sense” at the drop of a hat. If we are to fight back we will have to work in that arena, if we imagine that our arguments if presented strongly, vigorously, enthusiastically will on their own persuade our fellow citizens that the conservative ideas are better, we will continue to fail.

    I agree. I cite the same reality in this post. We need to reenter relevant cultural communications. Primarily, we need to become better storytellers. Alot of information and values are conveyed in how we tell stories. To date, the right has relied on reason and policy. As I indicated above, we need to capture imaginations, and as you point out, hearts.

    • #11
  12. Theodoric of Freiberg Inactive
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    Tim Kreider: …..rip it all to the ground. I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

    Mr. Kreider obviously has learned nothing from history. If his wish actually comes true, I very much doubt he or anyone but those making up the small ruling class will be anything but appalled by the results.

    • #12
  13. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):

    RyanKasak: …..rip it all to the ground. I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

    Mr. Kasak obviously has learned nothing from history. If his wish actually comes true, I very much doubt he or anyone but those making up the small ruling class will be anything but appalled by the results.

    I think you need to read this again. That is not my quote friend.

    • #13
  14. TRibbey Inactive
    TRibbey
    @TRibbey

    RyanKasak (View Comment):
    I agree. I cite the same reality in this post. We need to reenter relevant cultural communications. Primarily, we need to become better storytellers. Alot of information and values are conveyed in how we tell stories. To date, the right has relied on reason and policy. As I indicated above, we need to capture imaginations, and as you point out, hearts.

    Absolutely. Watching TV or movies where the bad guys are inevitably amoral capitalists would be even more cringe inducing than it already is except for the fact that it’s effective. Maybe not directly, maybe not for most people, but as a kind of a low level radiation slowly poisoning everything.

    Some on the left who attribute all the evil intent of the world to big business seem confused when you point what seems obvious to many on the right – big business often needs the help of big government to be truly malicious. 

    How to go about changing that narrative though? Good question. Sometimes it seems to happen on accident, or in spite of the credentials of the creators. 

    • #14
  15. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    Tim Kreider is a big sissy.

    Also, he’s asking the most limp-wristed demographic in American history to “tear it all down”.  The only thing they’ll be tearing down are the Justin Bieber posters in their Moms’ basements.

    Fight the power, losers.

    • #15
  16. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    RyanKasak: I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

    The Twilight Zone where Vic Morrow died while filming cast him as a racist who twilight-zones back to WW2, transformed into a Jew.  He finds out what it’s like to live with the consequences of his philosophy.

    I wish I and this joker RyanKasak could each go have to live for a while in our respective ideal worlds. I would be deliriously happy.  I’m pretty sure he would not.

    But it would be fun to see.

    • #16
  17. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    I wouldn’t necessarily say I disagree with this, more like I think it misses the mark somewhat on what I think conservative’s goals should be.  I still think more in terms of persuasion than combat when it comes to ideas.  Even if your goal is political power, the key to that is to have more people on your side than your opponent’s.  Now I appreciate the OP’s nuance about respecting people’s rights etc but you don’t have to look far to see abandonment of any and all principles being excused because someone FIGHTS FOR OUR SIDE.  I fail to be persuaded that using the left’s tactics does more than make us a poor imitation of crude, unthinking, ideologies yelling at those who disagree with us to “shut up”.  I would argue that this hasn’t worked out well for the left at all and is a poor example to follow politically.  Their national democrat party has become dominated by extreme left ideologues and though it has made them unbearably loud, it hasn’t done really well at the ballot box.  

    I am not at all advocating the surrender of western civilization as we see in parts of the world because deep in their hearts they don’t believe it’s worth fighting for.  I just think that many times the left is loud, boorish, mean spirited, and crude precisely because of the weakness of their ideas.  It’s not that they argue their positions more forcefully, it’s that their position cannot be argued so they shout down opposition.  Yes, do not allow yourself to be shouted down.  No, do not use “Alynski” tactics because you envy how ruthless the left is.  Their crudeness is their weakness not their strength. 

     

     

    • #17
  18. Theodoric of Freiberg Inactive
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    RyanKasak (View Comment):
    I think you need to read this again. That is not my quote friend.

    My sincerest apologies! I attributed that quote to you entirely by accident. I edited my reply to name the correct source.

    • #18
  19. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    RyanKasak: According to the left, you don’t deserve to have an opinion.

    That should be “. . . have a differing opinion.”

    • #19
  20. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    RyanKasak: I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

     

    I wish I and this joker RyanKasak could each go have to live for a while in our respective ideal worlds. I would be deliriously happy. I’m pretty sure he would not.

    But it would be fun to see.

    Uh…second time this has happened to RyanKasak. The quote is from Tim Krieder, RyanKasak is speaking against Krieder. I am seriously beginning to question Ricochetti’s reading comprehension abilities!

    • #20
  21. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    I wouldn’t necessarily say I disagree with this, more like I think it misses the mark somewhat on what I think conservative’s goals should be. I still think more in terms of persuasion than combat when it comes to ideas. Even if your goal is political power, the key to that is to have more people on your side than your opponent’s. Now I appreciate the OP’s nuance about respecting people’s rights etc but you don’t have to look far to see abandonment of any and all principles being excused because someone FIGHTS FOR OUR SIDE. I fail to be persuaded that using the left’s tactics does more than make us a poor imitation of crude, unthinking, ideologies yelling at those who disagree with us to “shut up”. I would argue that this hasn’t worked out well for the left at all and is a poor example to follow politically. Their national democrat party has become dominated by extreme left ideologues and though it has made them unbearably loud, it hasn’t done really well at the ballot box.

    I am not at all advocating the surrender of western civilization as we see in parts of the world because deep in their hearts they don’t believe it’s worth fighting for. I just think that many times the left is loud, boorish, mean spirited, and crude precisely because of the weakness of their ideas. It’s not that they argue their positions more forcefully, it’s that their position cannot be argued so they shout down opposition. Yes, do not allow yourself to be shouted down. No, do not use “Alynski” tactics because you envy how ruthless the left is. Their crudeness is their weakness not their strength.

     

    Good points. However, I think you pull out the most annoying of the left’s tactics and ignore the majority of their tactics that are much more effective. I agree that we should not turn into groveling, whinny, politically correct liars. I am not advocating that we BECOME the left. I am advocating that we adopt a more appropriate sense of urgency and passion given the nature of the threat. We don’t, to any significant degree, boycott businesses that clearly speak against our values, speak up when confronted with opposing views, call them out for the intolerant racists that they often are, etc. More importantly I am referring to the avenues of persuasion they use effectively (i.e. the full court press of their values in cultural contexts). I believe you are understating the effectiveness they have had conveying their message (specifically to young people). Who is winning at the ballot box is ultimately irrelevant when 1) They don’t do what they promised when elected and 2) when sociatal values have shifted dramatically thereby rendering matters non-issues. Many conservatives think we can simply sit talk policy and we will prevail. That doesnt match the reality I see.

    • #21
  22. RyanKasak Inactive
    RyanKasak
    @RyanKasak

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    RyanKasak: I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

    The Twilight Zone where Vic Morrow died while filming cast him as a racist who twilight-zones back to WW2, transformed into a Jew. He finds out what it’s like to live with the consequences of his philosophy.

    I wish I and this joker RyanKasak could each go have to live for a while in our respective ideal worlds. I would be deliriously happy. I’m pretty sure he would not.

    But it would be fun to see.

    Ummm. Did you read the article my friend? If so you may want to read it again.

    • #22
  23. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):
    Mr. Kreider obviously has learned nothing from history. If his wish actually comes true, I very much doubt he or anyone but those making up the small ruling class will be anything but appalled by the results.

    He and his ilk are truly convinced that they love Big Brother. If when push comes to shove they are appalled after all, it is because of vestigial weakness or indoctrination failure due to their having grown up in a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and otherwise untransformed America.

    • #23
  24. TheSockMonkey Inactive
    TheSockMonkey
    @TheSockMonkey

    RyanKasak:

    [Tim Kreider, as published in the New York Times]

    My message, as an aging Gen X-er to millennials and those coming after them, is: Go get us. Take us down – all those cringing provincials who still think … “socialism” means purges and re-education camps. Rid the world of all our outmoded opinions, vestigial prejudices and rotten institutions. Gender roles as disfiguring as foot-binding, the moribund and vampiric two-party system, the savage theology of capitalism – rip it all to the ground. I for one can’t wait till we’re gone. I just wish I could live to see the world without us.

    So “socialism” doesn’t mean re-education camps and purges. It just means we have to get rid of all of the wrong-thinking people. Brilliant.

    • #24
  25. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

     Ultimately, Kreider is lazy.  Why?  Because if you paint your enemies as a group of essentially evil, deplorable, horrifying, etc, then of course your argument fails before you start the second paragraph.  But check out the benefits!

    1.  This technique allows Kreider to escape any need to justify a position.  So no heavy lifting, in terms of thought.
    2. Kreider knows his readers will likely agree with his take without also asking him to intellectually justify his thought.  He’ll keep a solid base of chowderheads buying the paper/clicking on links.
    3. Kreider gets to bask in the accolades of like-minded colleagues and people in his social circle.
    4. There is no downside to this approach, other than selling out your laughable journalistic integrity for what amounts to money.

    Given the above, especially the fact of a very limited downside, I’m surprised there aren’t thousands of Kreiders writing for the NYT.  Oh, wait, I forgot: They’re a failing business, so they can’t afford anybody decent.

     

    • #25
  26. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Outstanding post.

    Thank you.

    Concur.

    • #26
  27. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    PHenry:

    ‘I understand the urge to fight fire with fire, but on some level, if we just give in and use their tactics and methods then we end up in the same place we are trying to stop them from taking us. 

    If we start to shut down speech about lefty causes, demand alternate thinking be shunned, and rely on lies and slander to win elections, we may well see Republicans in charge, but we still lose America as founded. ”

    Anyone who’s been around millennials for very long these days will encounter the new, mean, brain washed politically correct intimidator; the vicious political enforcer who will broker absolutely no politically incorrect speech.  This now is very common. Many young twenty somethings now filter their speech and thoughts to avoid the near certain harsh confrontation from their “friend” if they even demurely speak the truth, and over time self censor their thoughts to fit the new rigid dogma of the Left.  Ideas of free speech, freedom of religion, equal protection and the right to bear arms  as a result are slowing being shut out  of the minds of our children because of the fear of the “progressive” reprisal.  

    So it’s hard  from that reality, PHenry, to understand where you are coming from.  Ryan in his post in no way advocated using the Gestapo tactics of the left.  We are now at a point in our history where advocating the truth or  advocating our God Given Constitutional rights is a defiant revolutionary act in too many settings.  What we need to find more people willing to confront our new omnipresent political intimidators and be willing to provoke what at times are uncomfortable confrontations because the counterattack from the fascist intimidators will be vicious. 

    Sadly PHenry,  your response reminds me of the all often used tactic of the squishy Lefty loving moderate who jumps to conflate  the brave behavior of those who defend our rights with the evil tactics of the left.

     

     

     

     

    • #27
  28. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    Unsk (View Comment):
    Ryan in his post in no way advocated using the Gestapo tactics of the left.

    I think he clarified that in the comments, and I agreed.  I was not the only one who read the OP that way:

    RyanKasak (View Comment):
    Thank you for the feedback. I actually just added a paragraph to hopefully clarify my intent.

    I do not in any way disagree with the post, I simply was warning that if you allow yourself to become that which you are fighting you have lost even when you win. 

    As an example, take the fight against racism.  Those discriminated against, and those who were repulsed by that discrimination, fought for the laudable virtue ‘Judge a man by the content of his character, not the color of his skin.’  Yet, somewhere in the fight, the tactic changed to a new form of racism. It is OK to judge by the color of skin, as long as the skin is of the color that deserves such judgement.   A different standard, based on skin color, became the goal – it was not enough to end racism and build a colorblind society.  There had to be payback!  In the name of beating racism, a new and equally vile form of racism was created. 

    That is what I am saying.  The left becomes what they claim to despise in the guise of righting the wrongs of the past. To them, the end justifies the means.   I do not wish to become them. 

    • #28
  29. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    RyanKasak (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    I wouldn’t necessarily say I disagree with this, more like I think it misses the mark somewhat on what I think conservative’s goals should be. I still think more in terms of persuasion than combat when it comes to ideas. Even if your goal is political power, the key to that is to have more people on your side than your opponent’s. Now I appreciate the OP’s nuance about respecting people’s rights etc but you don’t have to look far to see abandonment of any and all principles being excused because someone FIGHTS FOR OUR SIDE. I fail to be persuaded that using the left’s tactics does more than make us a poor imitation of crude, unthinking, ideologies yelling at those who disagree with us to “shut up”. I would argue that this hasn’t worked out well for the left at all and is a poor example to follow politically. Their national democrat party has become dominated by extreme left ideologues and though it has made them unbearably loud, it hasn’t done really well at the ballot box.

    I am not at all advocating the surrender of western civilization as we see in parts of the world because deep in their hearts they don’t believe it’s worth fighting for. I just think that many times the left is loud, boorish, mean spirited, and crude precisely because of the weakness of their ideas. It’s not that they argue their positions more forcefully, it’s that their position cannot be argued so they shout down opposition. Yes, do not allow yourself to be shouted down. No, do not use “Alynski” tactics because you envy how ruthless the left is. Their crudeness is their weakness not their strength.

    Good points. However, I think you pull out the most annoying of the left’s tactics and ignore the majority of their tactics that are much more effective. I agree that we should not turn into groveling, whinny, politically correct liars. I am not advocating that we BECOME the left. I am advocating that we adopt a more appropriate sense of urgency and passion given the nature of the threat. We don’t, to any significant degree, boycott businesses that clearly speak against our values, speak up when confronted with opposing views, call them out for the intolerant racists that they often are, etc. More importantly I am referring to the avenues of persuasion they use effectively (i.e. the full court press of their values in cultural contexts). I believe you are understating the effectiveness they have had conveying their message (specifically to young people). Who is winning at the ballot box is ultimately irrelevant when 1) They don’t do what they promised when elected and 2) when sociatal values have shifted dramatically thereby rendering matters non-issues. Many conservatives think we can simply sit talk policy and we will prevail. That doesnt match the reality I see.

    Sure, I agree that it isn’t enough to talk policy.  Being active advocates for societal values means much more than that.  The thing to remember about winning at the ballot box is no one is voting for a political ideology, we are voting for politicians.  The goal should be to persuade enough voters that conservatism is the preferable ideology so that politicians vote in a manner that pleases their constituents.  Yes we should absolutely refute lies and deceit from the left forcefully enough to make an impact.  We just don’t want to turn that into an ideological war against anyone who doesn’t match our personal purity test.  I have heard many times over the past year or so that it doesn’t matter if someone on our “side” is being mean, or crude, fudging the truth, or whatever because the left acts that way and we have to fight fire with fire.  

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  30. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    P: “I think he clarified that in the comments, and I agreed. I was not the only one who read the OP that way”

    Good.

    I’m sorry if I misunderstood your comments. :

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