ACF #31: Body Double

 

The podcast’s going back to Brian De Palma. My friend John Presnall and I are going to defend, from a conservative point of view, De Palma’s most indefensible sex and violence movie, Body Double. De Palma makes porn the mirror of Hollywood (the underground of Hollywood) and brings Hitchcock into the ’80s, with all the new scandals, but the same moralistic intention: Showing how society hides from evil and perpetuates it. De Palma criticizes the all-American ambition for success and popularity in order to defend man’s heroism. However vulgar, we all want to be a man and save the girl and beat the bad guy.

John and I also do a lot of talking about what De Palma wants from his audience.

He shocks people because of his anti-therapeutic ethic. He doesn’t want to comfort or distract people, but show them the evil our society wants to hide. He wants an intelligent audience that plays detective, that gets outraged when they’re exploited, and that’s moral enough to know its own weaknesses and openness to titillation.

He also has a remarkably childish sense of humor that is supposed to bring evil, as well as heroes, down from their pedestal. Strange to say, but De Palma has a populist attitude here. Porn stars and movie stars are interchangeable for him. But that also means that the vulgar guy nobody gives a damn about is way more important if you consider him as a human being, faced with the desire to be a somebody, to achieve some success, and do something with his life.

So vulgarity is supposed to be a counter-poison to success worship and to celebrity worship. We just have to be willing to take anonymous people seriously and we’ll see the American drama of dignity and success play out in their lives, too.

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  1. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Before I listen, I’ll need to re-watch the movie.  Which means I’m going to have to put up with all that nudity.

    • #1
  2. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Before I listen, I’ll need to re-watch the movie. Which means I’m going to have to put up with all that nudity.

    I know it’s a pain–I appreciate the sacrifice you’re making here, Judge. Really big a ya-

    • #2
  3. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Before I listen, I’ll need to re-watch the movie. Which means I’m going to have to put up with all that nudity.

    I know it’s a pain–I appreciate the sacrifice you’re making here, Judge. Really big a ya-

    I’m a giver.

    • #3
  4. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.”  I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead.  That’s about it.

    • #4
  5. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    I’ve thought that about every movie I’ve ever seen with him.  I just never got it, but the guy worked for a while there, it seemed always in lead roles.

    • #5
  6. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    I’ve thought that about every movie I’ve ever seen with him. I just never got it, but the guy worked for a while there, it seemed always in lead roles.

    Well, in this one, the fact that he’s not leading man material, to say nothing of A or B list, is central to the story. So maybe De Palma agrees with the rest of us…

    • #6
  7. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    I’ve thought that about every movie I’ve ever seen with him. I just never got it, but the guy worked for a while there, it seemed always in lead roles.

    It might be the “everyman” thing.  For me, it’s the “dull” thing.

     

    • #7
  8. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

    So watch the movie, it’s pretty great. But maybe listen to the podcast first.

    • #8
  9. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

     

    Which beautiful actress?  The murder victim, or the one who didn’t realize they were talking about porn?

    • #9
  10. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

    So watch the movie, it’s pretty great. But maybe listen to the podcast first.

    “Dallas,” I know.   I did like BD, and I think it’s just the type of unusual choice that makes for a good podcast.  I liked Melanie Griffith in this and “Bonfire of the Vanities.”  She has to be cast just right; there’s little margin for error.

     

    • #10
  11. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I remember “Frankie Goes to Hollywood.” I remember the beautiful actress who later showed up in “Dallas.” I remember thinking that Craig Wasson was an odd choice for a lead. That’s about it.

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

    So watch the movie, it’s pretty great. But maybe listen to the podcast first.

    “Dallas,” I know. I did like BD, and I think it’s just the type of unusual choice that makes for a good podcast. I liked Melanie Griffith in this and “Bonfire of the Vanities.” She has to be cast just right; there’s little margin for error.

     

    Look for Something Wild.  Her and (I think) Jeff Daniels.  And the first time I ever saw Ray Liotta.  Thought he was scary for a while after that.

    • #11
  12. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

    Which beautiful actress? The murder victim, or the one who didn’t realize they were talking about porn?

    Unfortunately, I don’t remember well, but I think she was the victim.  Long brown hair, if that helps.

     

    • #12
  13. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Goddamnit, you’re right! It was Dallas!

    Which beautiful actress? The murder victim, or the one who didn’t realize they were talking about porn?

    Unfortunately, I don’t remember well, but I think she was the victim. Long brown hair, if that helps.

    Yup, victim. Made for it, really…

    As for my goddamn before–I wasn’t mocking. I just didn’t remember until you pointed it out…

    By the way, the acting coach also was a star in a soap. Lane Davies. Perfect name, really…

    Mason Capwell

    • #13
  14. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Also, Dennis Franz is in it, too!

    • #14
  15. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    & Gregg Henry. Not gonna start a fan club, but I like that guy! Saw him first in the Payback movie–he was the first villain. I was a kid when it came out. Mel Gibson is in it. Brian Helgeland directed (underrated writer–did the screenplay for L.A. Confidential, for example.). It’s the only good Don Westlake adaptation. 

    • #15
  16. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    & Gregg Henry. Not gonna start a fan club, but I like that guy! Saw him first in the Payback movie–he was the first villain. I was a kid when it came out. Mel Gibson is in it. Brian Helgeland directed (underrated writer–did the screenplay for L.A. Confidential, for example.). It’s the only good Don Westlake adaptation.

    I saw him first in this.  His hair thinned out early, so he’s one of those guys who looks the same decade after decade.

    • #16
  17. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    & Gregg Henry. Not gonna start a fan club, but I like that guy! Saw him first in the Payback movie–he was the first villain. I was a kid when it came out. Mel Gibson is in it. Brian Helgeland directed (underrated writer–did the screenplay for L.A. Confidential, for example.). It’s the only good Don Westlake adaptation.

    I saw him first in this. His hair thinned out early, so he’s one of those guys who looks the same decade after decade.

    I nominate Will Patton in that category as well.

     

    • #17
  18. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Oh, and Payback for “Better Than Your Average Neo-Noir.”

    • #18
  19. Turn MD Red Inactive
    Turn MD Red
    @TurnMDRed

    I saw Body Double when it was released and spent that night lying flat on my back in bed, lights on, staring at the bedroom door.

    Absolutely put me off horror movies. – won’t watch them.

    • #19
  20. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Turn MD Red (View Comment):

    I saw Body Double when it was released and spent that night lying flat on my back in bed, lights on, staring at the bedroom door.

    Absolutely put me off horror movies. – won’t watch them.

    Hey, that’s not bad. Horror’s not for everyone & you might be better off without it.

    If you remember the movie, listen to the podcast. You may get something out of your experience.

    • #20
  21. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Wasn’t there some discussion over the use of a body double for Angie Dickinson in Dressed To Kill?   The genesis of an idea?  Probably not.

     

    • #21
  22. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Wasn’t there some discussion over the use of a body double for Angie Dickinson in Dressed To Kill? The genesis of an idea? Probably not.

    Body double is an industry term, so yeah, it came up there & in other movies. It’s part of De Palma’s using movie techniques to reveal what’s screwed up with Hollywood, with the audiences, &c. so he can get to what he thinks directors & audiences get right about the double character of acting…

    (By the way, our next De Palma movie podcast will be, whenever we get to it, Blow out. We’re interested in Dressed to kill as well, of course…)

     

    • #22
  23. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Wasn’t there some discussion over the use of a body double for Angie Dickinson in Dressed To Kill? The genesis of an idea? Probably not.

    Body double is an industry term, so yeah, it came up there & in other movies. It’s part of De Palma’s using movie techniques to reveal what’s screwed up with Hollywood, with the audiences, &c. so he can get to what he thinks directors & audiences get right about the double character of acting…

    (By the way, our next De Palma movie podcast will be, whenever we get to it, Blow out. We’re interested in Dressed to kill as well, of course…)

    My recollection is that there was some publicity for the movie tied to Dickinson doing a nude scene and then some backlash when the use of a body double came out.

    De Palma and Hitchcock are often tied (e.g., the baby carriage) but hopefully in your Blow Out podcast you’ll be getting into its ties to Blow Up.   

     

     

     

    • #23
  24. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    My recollection is that there was some publicity for the movie tied to Dickinson doing a nude scene and then some backlash when the use of a body double came out.

     

    If you watch closely, you’ll see there is both.

    • #24
  25. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    My recollection is that there was some publicity for the movie tied to Dickinson doing a nude scene and then some backlash when the use of a body double came out.

    If you watch closely, you’ll see there is both.

    As we all do in the scholarly professions…

    • #25
  26. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    De Palma and Hitchcock are often tied (e.g., the baby carriage) but hopefully in your Blow Out podcast you’ll be getting into its ties to Blow Up.

    Yeah, it’s on my mind. But I’m not sure I want the headache. 

    My enthusiasm for explaining Antonioni to Americans is less than it would be to explain him to Europeans, which is little to begin with. I like thinking about him, though, so maybe it’ll happen…

    Although if I had to teach Americans something & wanted to infuriate them, I’d do his American movie!

     

    • #26
  27. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    De Palma and Hitchcock are often tied (e.g., the baby carriage) but hopefully in your Blow Out podcast you’ll be getting into its ties to Blow Up.

    Yeah, it’s on my mind. But I’m not sure I want the headache.

    My enthusiasm for explaining Antonioni to Americans is less than it would be to explain him to Europeans, which is little to begin with. I like thinking about him, though, so maybe it’ll happen…

    Although if I had to teach Americans something & wanted to infuriate them, I’d do his American movie!

     

    Here’s everything I know about Antonioni:
    Claude Hooper Bukowski
    Finds that it’s groovy
    To hide in a movie
    Pretends he’s Fellini
    And Antonioni
    And also his countryman Roman Polanski
    All rolled into one
    One Claude Hooper Bukowski

    • #27
  28. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Titus Techera (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):
    De Palma and Hitchcock are often tied (e.g., the baby carriage) but hopefully in your Blow Out podcast you’ll be getting into its ties to Blow Up.

    Yeah, it’s on my mind. But I’m not sure I want the headache.

    My enthusiasm for explaining Antonioni to Americans is less than it would be to explain him to Europeans, which is little to begin with. I like thinking about him, though, so maybe it’ll happen…

    Although if I had to teach Americans something & wanted to infuriate them, I’d do his American movie!

    It’s your podcast and you’re the man, but the parallels go beyond the titles.  It’s hard to ignore them–even if only in passing.

    Besides, you could sneak in a mention of how Beck and Page are actually together in one of the coolest scenes :)

    Oh, and don’t worry about explaining Zabriskie Point to Americans.  We’ll hate it no matter what.

    • #28
  29. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Talking about which beautiful woman, how could I have left out Barbara Crampton?

    • #29
  30. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Still listening… a thought as I go, on the idea of Jake not ending up a hero.  Your thoughts remind me of the end of movie voice over in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, when Robert Downy Jr. says that we saved the world.  Well, for a few days.  (or some such)

    Even if you get the media fame, it doesn’t last, and neither does saving the world.  Saving it never really changes it in any lasting way.

    • #30
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