Horowitz and Rubin: Passing of the Baton

 

Update: This interview is an hour and half long and I know many of you won’t be able to listen to it so I transcribed a little of the interview below just for people to get an idea what you will hear. 

Dave Rubin (age 41) is getting up to speed very quickly and it’s amazing to watch and listen to his questions and commentary with David Horowitz (age 79). This is a great background for understanding the war (you know the one we’re in right now against the left? The one that Dennis Prager talks about?). I start the video late to skip the opening monologue about other things.

I’ve read Radical Son by David Horowitz and a few other books of his. I have read a lot about him over the years but this filled in a few more blanks in my understanding of him and his journey from red-diaper baby to a professed enemy of the left.

Rubin is in a space right now where he wants to learn from the people who have been fighting the war so far and have spent time in the trenches. Nobody knows the ground game better than David Horowitz.

I rank Radical Son up there with Whitaker Chambers’ Witness as absolutely essential reading. This is an important book and, if we can get through this present attack from the nihilist postmodern leftists of the world, these two books will be recognized as the counter-revolutionary tracts that laid the foundations of our salvation. I worry that only America can be saved because there are so few in Europe fighting this fight.

Samples from the interview:

Dave Rubin: I don’t know if I’ve read anyone’s bio and found it more interesting than your bio. … There’s so much richness there, your evolution politically, it has a lot to do with some of the things that you write about, about going from the left to the right. I want to start with your history first. Your parents were communists.

David Horowitz: Card carrying.

DH: These were people who were part of a vast international conspiracy orchestrated by Moscow. My parents — I don’t think my mother ever got a traffic ticket — but they were very middle class, did not break the law but they did hide an east German communist that the government wanted to deport. Dieter was his name, his brother was the mayor of East Berlin. They were very conspiratorial. They never referred to themselves as communists, only as progressives.

DH: We need to have a stigma on people who hate this country and we’ve lost that completely.

DH: I was one of the creators of the New Left. I was at Berkeley, we published a magazine that was called “Root and Branch” but by the end of that decade it was clear that the left was a totalitarian force…

DH: I was in the same place my parents were (being embarrassed by the Kruschkev report), something that I swore would never happen to me.

DH: When our (DH and Peter Collier) article came out that we voted for Reagan, Peter said to me, “Our literary careers are over.”

DH: When people start referring to the left as fascists and not liberals then I’ll say OK we’re winning now.

DH: Trump understands instinctively that when you get attacked you attack back.

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  1. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    Humbly admit, I have not read Radical Son.  I will.  Thanks Larry!

    • #1
  2. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    James Madison (View Comment):
    Humbly admit, I have not read Radical Son. I will. Thanks Larry!

    You’re welcome. It’s so well written that you won’t be able to put it down. So, it’s not an onerous task.

    • #2
  3. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Loved Radical Son. Haven’t read the Chambers book though. Saw this a while ago but will take another look/listen. Horowitz knows the left better than anyone! I really enjoy Rubin’s interviews.

    • #3
  4. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Franco (View Comment):
    Loved Radical Son. Haven’t read the Chambers book though. Saw this a while ago but will take another look/listen. Horowitz knows the left better than anyone! I really enjoy Rubin’s interviews.

    Yes, Rubin is really excellent. He is in learning mode a lot of the time and he is respectful to his guests and his viewers. He shows us clearly how his mind works — I loved the monologue of this video (even though I skipped it), for example. Great clarity.

    • #4
  5. TempTime Member
    TempTime
    @TempTime

    Good Post, Larry.  Just put a copy of Radical Son in my Amazon cart.

    • #5
  6. Derek Simmons Member
    Derek Simmons
    @

    James Madison (View Comment):
    Humbly admit, I have not read Radical Son. I will. Thanks Larry!

    I humbly admit I have read it. Thanks. Larry. I dig around in order to read it again. I also agree: WITNESS is a must read

    • #6
  7. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    TempTime (View Comment):
    Good Post, Larry. Just put a copy of Radical Son in my Amazon cart.

    Thanks.

    You’ll love the book. Let me know in a few weeks or months after you have read it — maybe do a post on it. It’s an important book.

    • #7
  8. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Derek Simmons (View Comment):

    James Madison (View Comment):
    Humbly admit, I have not read Radical Son. I will. Thanks Larry!

    I humbly admit I have read it. Thanks. Larry. I dig around in order to read it again. I also agree: WITNESS is a must read

    Excellent humility.

    Didn’t it blow your mind? And Witness ?? Wow!

    • #8
  9. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    Goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    Thank you for this Larry.

    • #9
  10. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Franco (View Comment):
    Loved Radical Son. Haven’t read the Chambers book though. Saw this a while ago but will take another look/listen. Horowitz knows the left better than anyone! I really enjoy Rubin’s interviews.

    I’m not much of a reader compared to most people on Ricochet.

    I can’t remember how much of Radical Son I read, but it was mind-blowing.

    It’s too bad that Horowitz got in the middle of the whole Trump split, but he’s tough.

    • #10
  11. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Loved Radical Son. Haven’t read the Chambers book though. Saw this a while ago but will take another look/listen. Horowitz knows the left better than anyone! I really enjoy Rubin’s interviews.

    I’m not much of a reader compared to most people on Ricochet.

    I can’t remember how much of Radical Son I read, but it was mind-blowing.

    That was my experience, too.

    • #11
  12. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):
    It’s too bad that Horowitz got in the middle of the whole Trump split, but he’s tough.

    What do you mean by this? I think he’s been pro Trump for quite a while now.

    • #12
  13. CarolJoy Coolidge
    CarolJoy
    @CarolJoy

    Thanks fo rthe video and transcription, Larry.

    One of the blogs I am on, run by a a very small group of us Dem Exit folks who had been banned by progressive sites, published photos circa Summer 2017 to demonstrate the behavior of the “New Left.” Several photos demonstrated how these Antifa had converted some over-the-counter aerosal spray cans into flame throwers, and then used those devices to aim flames at people protesting the for the right of Charlottesville citizens to keep their Robert E Lee statues up, I realized how totalitarian the Left had become.

    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    No one on the Right needs to “attack back.” (At least not by fighting fire with fire and fighting stoopid with stoopid.)  The stupid burns and people are fed up.

    We win by simply waiting things out, which does not exclude  making sensible arguments when the ability to argue exists. When I hear from former liberal friends in Houston and other places stating that their local education districts are without monies due to the Antifa  insisting that statues be removed,  and then asking, “How could the Democratic Party be behind such a travesty,” I view our side as easily being able to gain converts.

    • #13
  14. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    Thanks fo rthe video and transcription, Larry.

    One of the blogs I am on, run by a a very small group of us Dem Exit folks who had been banned by progressive sites, published photos circa Summer 2017 to demonstrate the behavior of the “New Left.” Several photos demonstrated how these Antifa had converted some over-the-counter aerosal spray cans into flame throwers, and then used those devices to aim flames at people protesting the for the right of Charlottesville citizens to keep their Robert E Lee statues up, I realized how totalitarian the Left had become.

    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    No one on the Right needs to “attack back.” (At least not by fighting fire with fire and fighting stoopid with stoopid.) The stupid burns and people are fed up.

    We win by simply waiting things out, which does not exclude making sensible arguments when the ability to argue exists. When I hear from former liberal friends in Houston and other places stating that their local education districts are without monies due to the Antifa insisting that statues be removed, and then asking, “How could the Democratic Party be behind such a travesty,” I view our side as easily being able to gain converts.

    Well, I agree with Horowitz that until everyone on our side, at least, start calling them fascists we still aren’t winning.

    • #14
  15. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    Thanks fo rthe video and transcription, Larry.

    One of the blogs I am on, run by a a very small group of us Dem Exit folks who had been banned by progressive sites, published photos circa Summer 2017 to demonstrate the behavior of the “New Left.” Several photos demonstrated how these Antifa had converted some over-the-counter aerosal spray cans into flame throwers, and then used those devices to aim flames at people protesting the for the right of Charlottesville citizens to keep their Robert E Lee statues up, I realized how totalitarian the Left had become.

    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    No one on the Right needs to “attack back.” (At least not by fighting fire with fire and fighting stoopid with stoopid.) The stupid burns and people are fed up.

    We win by simply waiting things out, which does not exclude making sensible arguments when the ability to argue exists. When I hear from former liberal friends in Houston and other places stating that their local education districts are without monies due to the Antifa insisting that statues be removed, and then asking, “How could the Democratic Party be behind such a travesty,” I view our side as easily being able to gain converts.

    I don’t agree with your interpretation of Rubin and especially Horowitz being “forced out” of the left. The left, as we are talking about them here, ( too often people are sloppy calling anyone who is not on the right, “the left”)has always been fanatical and intolerant of dissent.

    This is because their model of Utopia requires everyone’s participation and agreement and it’s a zero-sum problem for implementing their society. Whereas the right accepts differences because of our appreciation of individualism, and our American Constitution is designed. First the dissenter recognizes flaws and wants to fix them. Then he/she meets resistance. It then has a domino effect and soon the entire facade crumbles. Then the dissenter is attacked and vilified.

    Did you watch the video?

    • #15
  16. CarolJoy Coolidge
    CarolJoy
    @CarolJoy

    Franco (View Comment):

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    Thanks fo rthe video and transcription, Larry.

    One of the blogs I am on, run by a a very small group of us Dem Exit folks who had been banned by progressive sites, published photos circa Summer 2017 to demonstrate the behavior of the “New Left.” Several photos demonstrated how these Antifa had converted some over-the-counter aerosal spray cans into flame throwers, and then used those devices to aim flames at people protesting the for the right of Charlottesville citizens to keep their Robert E Lee statues up, I realized how totalitarian the Left had become.

    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    No one on the Right needs to “attack back.” (At least not by fighting fire with fire and fighting stoopid with stoopid.) The stupid burns and people are fed up.

    We win by simply waiting things out, which does not exclude making sensible arguments when the ability to argue exists. When I hear from former liberal friends in Houston and other places stating that their local education districts are without monies due to the Antifa insisting that statues be removed, and then asking, “How could the Democratic Party be behind such a travesty,” I view our side as easily being able to gain converts.

    I don’t agree with your interpretation of Rubin and especially Horowitz being “forced out” of the left. The left, as we are talking about them here, ( too often people are sloppy calling anyone who is not on the right, “the left”)has always been fanatical and intolerant of dissent.

    This is because their model of Utopia requires everyone’s participation and agreement and it’s a zero-sum problem for implementing their society. Whereas the right accepts differences because of our appreciation of individualism, and our American Constitution is designed. First the dissenter recognizes flaws and wants to fix them. Then he/she meets resistance. It then has a domino effect and soon the entire facade crumbles. Then the dissenter is attacked and vilified.

    Did you watch the video?

    I can’t watch until spouse finishes his video project. To watch now means half a dozen changes in configuring stuff, and if I goof on it, he will be spending his day un-goofing stuff.

    But it is on my must watch list for later.

    • #16
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    That was excellent.

    • #17
  18. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    I just finished watching the whole episode. As hard it is for me to sit still for 1.5 hours of talking heads, this interview is very much worth the time spent. Dave Rubin is doing great work in conducting these interviews and David Horowitz is doing the very necessary work of telling the truth about the Left without pulling punches. And speaking of punches, Horowitz quotes a fighter [going from memory]:

    Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

    Most conservatives are struck dumb by the punches in the mouth by the Left, or as Horowitz says it’s “…like Godzilla versus Bambi.”

    Sincere thanks to Larry Koler for calling this to our attention.

    • #18
  19. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    You guys will like this. lol

    • #19
  20. Vectorman Inactive
    Vectorman
    @Vectorman

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    I remember Ronald Reagan’s famous quote, “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me.” And both Horowitz and Rubin are in good company.

    • #20
  21. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Just a side note. When I only a little older than than David Hogg, I read Ramparts the leftist magazine that Horowitz edited.I only read it because it was cool, I had zero understanding of political context. I hated Nixon because everyone else did, and that was cool too, of course.

    I was a member of a club called “the Zoo” consisting of a dozen young ‘freaks’. Mostly we went to parties and took psychedelic drugs and tried to impress girls. One of our members applied to join the SDS (Students for Democratic Society) for our group en masse, and we were of course accepted, so I suppose I was a member too. Several went to Woodstock ( I didn’t) . I did go to a “Smoke-in” in Washington DC and shared a joint with Wavy Gravy and got tear gassed. It was there that I got my first inkling this ‘movement’ wasn’t so great. It was peaceful and all, but before the riot cops moved in on this mass of lawbreaking hippies I saw a ice-cream cart vendor get overrun and his wares, er, liberated. I was pretty stoned ( I soon after gave it up because I actually didn’t like the feeling)  but I felt for the kid who was just trying to make a little money and providing a service. It wasn’t right.

    Anyway, by the time I was 26 at the end of Jimmy Carter’s term I was a full blown conservative.

    It’s pretty easy to be a hip radical if you aren’t exposed to the real world. For me it only took living a year in a socialist country ( Egypt in 1979) reading international newspapers and discovering what an American is. 

    Many of my fellow Zoo members died before age 30 or 40. One of our most celebrated members became a heroin addict and was in and out of jail, finally broke his habit and last I heard owns a prosperous horse farm in Pennsylvania. He’s probably a conservative through and through. Two others are journalists (!) . I think everyone of us became alcoholics to some degree also. We were pretty smart, and pretty stupid too.

    But I share this because there’s hope for young people today and to express that people change and learn, and those who learn best were once on the other side like David Horowitz.

     

    • #21
  22. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Franco (View Comment):
    Just a side note. When I only a little older than than David Hogg, I read Ramparts the leftist magazine that Horowitz edited.I only read it because it was cool, I had zero understanding of political context. I hated Nixon because everyone else did, and that was cool too, of course.

    I was a member of a club called “the Zoo” consisting of a dozen young ‘freaks’. Mostly we went to parties and took psychedelic drugs and tried to impress girls. One of our members applied to join the SDS (Students for Democratic Society) for our group en masse, and we were of course accepted, so I suppose I was a member too. Several went to Woodstock ( I didn’t) . I did go to a “Smoke-in” in Washington DC and shared a joint with Wavy Gravy and got tear gassed. It was there that I got my first inkling this ‘movement’ wasn’t so great. It was peaceful and all, but before the riot cops moved in on this mass of lawbreaking hippies I saw a ice-cream cart vendor get overrun and his wares, er, liberated. I was pretty stoned ( I soon after gave it up because I actually didn’t like the feeling) but I felt for the kid who was just trying to make a little money and providing a service. It wasn’t right.

    Anyway, by the time I was 26 at the end of Jimmy Carter’s term I was a full blown conservative.

    It’s pretty easy to be a hip radical if you aren’t exposed to the real world. For me it only took living a year in a socialist country ( Egypt in 1979) reading international newspapers and discovering what an American is.

    Many of my fellow Zoo members died before age 30 or 40. One of our most celebrated members became a heroin addict and was in and out of jail, finally broke his habit and last I heard owns a prosperous horse farm in Pennsylvania. He’s probably a conservative through and through. Two others are journalists (!) . I think everyone of us became alcoholics to some degree also. We were pretty smart, and pretty stupid too.

    But I share this because there’s hope for young people today and to express that people change and learn, and those who learn best were once on the other side like David Horowitz.

    The brutal slaying of a friend is what finally tipped Horowitz into our camp. He says in the interview that he was clinically depressed for 6 or 7 years! And another thing he says is that the woman’s (her name was Betty Van Patter) daughter refused to believe that her mother had been killed by the Panthers. I wonder what she thinks these days?

    Your description of those days matches a lot of what I went through, too. I just went along with the wisdom of the older guys I hung out with. One of them confided in me in the early 70s that he had just spent the night drunk or stoned on the street in the doorway of a business in downtown Seattle and said, “Hey, what’s the big deal? It wasn’t that bad?” He didn’t live too much longer. His name was Goop and I had so many good times with him in earlier years but he kept doing stronger drugs and more booze and he could see the glide path he was on and decided he was OK with it.

    This is what happens to people who are on the fringe and take seriously the ideas and ideology of the elites that they read and are influenced by. Horowitz had the most evil people in the world filling his whole early life with lies and propaganda.

    • #22
  23. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    CarolJoy (View Comment):
    David Horowitz and Rubin have not so much “left the left” but have found themselves forced out – and that is simply due to the Left becoming whacko Cra Cra.

    Yes and no. This is certainly Dave Rubin’s story but not Horowitz’s. He was once a communist and is no longer. It’s not the communists who changed, it was Horowitz.

    I haven’t heard the expression wacko cra cra for a long time. Brings back memories. Is it a regional thing? I associate it with the Northeast. What say you, @caroljoy?

    • #23
  24. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Franco (View Comment):
    When I only a little older than than David Hogg, I read Ramparts the leftist magazine that Horowitz edited.

    I also used to read Ramparts, but not because I was a leftist. I used to read everything, even leftist propaganda just to see what they were up to.

    Franco (View Comment):
    Mostly we went to parties and took psychedelic drugs and tried to impress girls.

    That’s funny because during the interview Horowitz says guys used to go to protest marches to get laid. Now I’m kinda sorry I missed out. Maybe it’s still the same today: put on a mask, go to Antifa event, get laid. Oh, to be young again! (kidding)

    • #24
  25. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Larry, I had already watched that interview a while back and listened to it again while driving. Totally compelling even the second time!

    As I look back on that era now I’ve come to see some really terrible consequences for males (especially) born between 1947 and 1955. If you were working class or black, hello Vietnam. Those who came back were behind. Upper classes went to college and succeeded and women were in the workforce competing for the same jobs when the Vets returned. Those born later like me in 1953 lacking stable families were sucked in to the counterculture and the drug scene,  before college which is bad. If you were already in college in the later sixties the drug scene didn’t have such a negative effect. I dropped out of high school ( can’t you tell by my writing? JK) and kinda struggled all my life because I threw away those essential years ( although I’m thankful for what I learned) most of my contemporaries did too.

    I happened to be visiting Princeton University Nassau Hall where they have the names of Princeton Alumni who died fighting in wars etched in the walls along with what war they died in. Great. Except the list stops after Korea.

    Yeah, somethings wrong with that. No Vietnam, no Gulf War, no Iraq or Afghanistan. Wars after Vietnam were volunteer military, so not completely bad, but Vietnam?

    Leftists are wrong about so much, but they can and do exploit these giant inconsistencies that the elites blissfully ignore. This make me even more livid at those anti-Trumpers.

     

    • #25
  26. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    When I only a little older than than David Hogg, I read Ramparts the leftist magazine that Horowitz edited.

    I also used to read Ramparts, but not because I was a leftist. I used to read everything, even leftist propaganda just to see what they were up to.

    Franco (View Comment):
    Mostly we went to parties and took psychedelic drugs and tried to impress girls.

    That’s funny because during the interview Horowitz says guys used to go to protest marches to get laid. Now I’m kinda sorry I missed out. Maybe it’s still the same today: put on a mask, go to Antifa event, get laid. Oh, to be young again! (kidding)

    I think the bra burnings were where all the guys suddenly became avid feminists. Of course, women have been using that too. They aren’t stupid.

    And yeah, I doubt the antifa guys are getting much action, but when they do, does the gal ask the guy to leave the mask on?

    • #26
  27. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Franco (View Comment):
    And yeah, I doubt the antifa guys are getting much action, but when they do, does the gal ask the guy to leave the mask on?

    Oooh, kinky. I agree, those beta-boys aren’t getting much action. Plus with all the piercings that some of those chicks have, you could hurt yourself.

    • #27
  28. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    And yeah, I doubt the antifa guys are getting much action, but when they do, does the gal ask the guy to leave the mask on?

    Oooh, kinky. I agree, those beta-boys aren’t getting much action. Plus with all the piercings that some of those chicks have, you could hurt yourself.

    Dude, umm you’re not supposed to use chicks anymore. The preferred nomenclature is ladies. [Like my Big Lebowski reference?]

    • #28
  29. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    And yeah, I doubt the antifa guys are getting much action, but when they do, does the gal ask the guy to leave the mask on?

    Oooh, kinky. I agree, those beta-boys aren’t getting much action. Plus with all the piercings that some of those chicks have, you could hurt yourself.

    Dude, umm you’re not supposed to use chicks anymore. The preferred nomenclature is ladies. [Like my Big Lebowski reference?]

    • #29
  30. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    David Horowitz was a huge influence with me. His “Left Illusions” book is great. Also, his book, “The End of Time” is also superb. There aren’t many agnostics that can write about death very well but David Horowitz is one of them.

    • #30
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