Recommended by Ricochet Members Created with Sketch. Flyover Country, Episode 70: The Anti-Anti-Anti-Something or other

 

Terry and Ryan are back for the 70th installment of Flyover Country. This week, it’s just the two of us to discuss Year 1, and all the reactions we’ve been seeing to the Trump Administration. We hope to be back again soon with a guest. In the meantime, enjoy the banter!

There are 30 comments.

  1. Flyover Country Member
    Flyover Country

    I know the embed doesn’t work … yet! It never works because I don’t have posting privileges. But I’ve already emailed @max to fix the thing, so be patient, and in the meantime, just go with your gut and recommend this post based solely on Rob’s word that this is indeed the #1 podcast on Ricochet.

    • #1
    • January 29, 2018, at 7:17 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  2. Henry Racette Contributor

    Flyover Country (View Comment):
    know the embed doesn’t work

    In the meantime, you could provide folks a link like this:

    Flyover Country, Episode 70

    • #2
    • January 29, 2018, at 7:24 PM PST
    • 1 like
  3. Al French Coolidge

    About time!

    • #3
    • January 29, 2018, at 9:27 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  4. Henry Castaigne Member

    You are truly my favorite podcast. I need more.

    • #4
    • January 30, 2018, at 4:01 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  5. Max Ledoux Admin

    Flyover Country (View Comment):
    I know the embed doesn’t work … yet! It never works because I don’t have posting privileges. But I’ve already emailed @max to fix the thing, so be patient, and in the meantime, just go with your gut and recommend this post based solely on Rob’s word that this is indeed the #1 podcast on Ricochet.

    You know, you could just save it as a draft, then send me a message. I can then publish it with a working player.

    • #5
    • January 30, 2018, at 9:24 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  6. Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Lincoln
    Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I love you guys, and I was happy to see the podcast return…

    …then I listened and I realized you’d joined the Shut Up Caucus.

    Very disappointed.

    • #6
    • January 30, 2018, at 9:35 AM PST
    • Like
  7. J.D. Snapp Coolidge

    Terry is my favorite, but I might be a little bit biased. ;)

    • #7
    • January 30, 2018, at 9:51 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  8. Full Size Tabby Member

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    Terry is my favorite, but I might be a little bit biased. ;)

    Though he might want clarification on your meaning of “favorite,” which may be as ambiguous as “aficionado” as applied to “possum.”

    Both could arise from eating the subject. :-)

    • #8
    • January 30, 2018, at 11:06 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  9. Hammer, The Member

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    I love you guys, and I was happy to see the podcast return…

    …then I listened and I realized you’d joined the Shut Up Caucus.

    Very disappointed.

    No we haven’t, it’s just the topic that was most relevant at the moment. I think we’re pretty fair about that stuff – it’s the tactics that I question. And the practical outcome. There is certainly an appropriate place for criticism.

    • #9
    • January 30, 2018, at 11:18 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  10. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Hammer, The (View Comment):

    No we haven’t, it’s just the topic that was most relevant at the moment. I think we’re pretty fair about that stuff – it’s the tactics that I question. And the practical outcome. There is certainly an appropriate place for criticism.

    I think there’s two relevant kinds of disagreement: disagreement over substance and disagreement on emphasis.

    My sense is that @ryanm, @kaladin, @umbrafractus, and I would agree on 90%+ of individual issues or controversies. X was not good. Y was good. Etc.

    Where the disagreements would show is (largely) in how much emphasis we put on each issue or controversy.

    • #10
    • January 30, 2018, at 1:07 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  11. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    FWIW, my only major disagreement was that you guys seemed to treat all criticisms of the president from the Right as indistinguishable from those from the Left: i.e., it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming. If that’s what Umbra was reacting to, I had the same reaction.

    Otherwise, it was great to hear you guys back and I agree that thing are, for the most part, going far better than we all expected.

    • #11
    • January 30, 2018, at 1:08 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  12. J.D. Snapp Coolidge

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    Terry is my favorite, but I might be a little bit biased. ;)

    Though he might want clarification on your meaning of “favorite,” which may be as ambiguous as “aficionado” as applied to “possum.”

    Both could arise from eating the subject. :-)

    I think possums, and Terry, are both super cute, though I’d rather snuggle on Terry than a possum!

    • #12
    • January 30, 2018, at 1:08 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  13. Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Lincoln
    Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    FWIW, my only major disagreement was that you guys seemed to treat all criticisms of the president from the Right as indistinguishable from those from the Left: i.e., it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming. If that’s what Umbra was reacting to, I had the same reaction.

    It’s close. I heard the Billy Graham/Bill Maher analogy and thought, “Oh great. Another, ‘If you criticize Trump, you’re making common cause with the Left, even if you don’t mean to,’ argument.”

    • #13
    • January 30, 2018, at 1:20 PM PST
    • 1 like
  14. Saint Augustine Member

    Al French (View Comment):
    About time!

    Yeah, good to have it back!

    • #14
    • January 30, 2018, at 3:35 PM PST
    • Like
  15. Flyover Country Member
    Flyover Country

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    FWIW, my only major disagreement was that you guys seemed to treat all criticisms of the president from the Right as indistinguishable from those from the Left: i.e., it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming. If that’s what Umbra was reacting to, I had the same reaction.

    Otherwise, it was great to hear you guys back and I agree that thing are, for the most part, going far better than we all expected.

    I think this is a fair disagreement; or, rather, you’re correct that we should have been more clear about that distinction. I do believe that the criticism from the right is significantly different. However, I think that some legitimate criticism from the right is otherwise made unwise by virtue of the criticism that is coming from the left. I think my Bill Maher/Billy Graham analogy holds up. In fact, that is specifically why I made that analogy in the first place. Meaning, Billy Graham may be totally justified, totally correct, and speaking from a good place. But he is unwise to walk into a Church where Bill Maher is ranting, and pile on. In that instance, not only are his legitimate criticisms lost in the noise, but the targets of his criticism are understandably defensive, and his words are unlikely to have any positive value with regard to them. So, is he speaking solely on principle, because he cannot stand by while something wrong is happening? Or is he speaking out of love for the congregants. Now, I think there is legitimate disagreement even among critics on the right. Are they “speaking truth” because they value truth qua truth that highly? Or are they considering the impact of their words?

    I also think that some might disagree because Terry and I seem to be taking one side. Really, we’re not – but we didn’t throw in a bunch of caveats. Even when responding to the left’s nonsense, it is also pretty stupid to allow yourself to be twisted into intellectual knots by denying basic truths. I do not agree with much of what I’m hearing from pro-Trump conservatives, either… If Bill Maher calls you a liar, you are not justified in adopting the position that lying is actually a virtue simply because it is opposed by the right people. There are generally plenty of legitimate responses that don’t involve your doing exactly what he’s wanting you to do by defending the indefensible.

    • #15
    • January 30, 2018, at 4:06 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  16. Flyover Country Member
    Flyover Country

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    FWIW, my only major disagreement was that you guys seemed to treat all criticisms of the president from the Right as indistinguishable from those from the Left: i.e., it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming. If that’s what Umbra was reacting to, I had the same reaction.

    It’s close. I heard the Billy Graham/Bill Maher analogy and thought, “Oh great. Another, ‘If you criticize Trump, you’re making common cause with the Left, even if you don’t mean to,’ argument.”

    That wasn’t the intent of my analogy, @umbrafractus; does comment #15 clarify what I meant by it?

    • #16
    • January 30, 2018, at 4:07 PM PST
    • Like
  17. Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Lincoln
    Umbra Fractus, cum Insigne Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Flyover Country (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    FWIW, my only major disagreement was that you guys seemed to treat all criticisms of the president from the Right as indistinguishable from those from the Left: i.e., it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming. If that’s what Umbra was reacting to, I had the same reaction.

    It’s close. I heard the Billy Graham/Bill Maher analogy and thought, “Oh great. Another, ‘If you criticize Trump, you’re making common cause with the Left, even if you don’t mean to,’ argument.”

    That wasn’t the intent of my analogy, @umbrafractus; does comment #15 clarify what I meant by it?

    Yes. Thank you.

    • #17
    • January 30, 2018, at 4:58 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  18. Max Ledoux Admin

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming

    yes

    • #18
    • January 30, 2018, at 8:24 PM PST
    • Like
  19. TJSnapp, Multi Pass holder Member

    Umbra, I’m surprised that’s what you got out of it. I’m not nor have ever been a big Trump fan. I’m all for criticising what he does.

    What I’m referring to is the histrionics about the minutiae of his tweets, or his supposed naughty word usage. That tends to come from the left but I don’t really have any use for the same coming from the right.

    My point is that we all are acutely aware that he isn’t the ideal version of “presidential” behavior, so harping on how much it bothers us every time accomplishes nothing. That in tandem with recognizing why his approach has been so effective (pov obviously) was more what we were shooting for.

    If people want to debate policy or decision making I’m all for it.

    • #19
    • January 30, 2018, at 8:55 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  20. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):
    it’s all a bunch of substanceless whining and attempted shaming

    yes

    For a moment, I thought you were joking. ;)

    • #20
    • January 31, 2018, at 9:11 AM PST
    • Like
  21. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    I think possums, and Terry, are both super cute, though I’d rather snuggle on Terry than a possum!

    Terry is a lucky man. I’m sure my wife would choose a possum over me.

    • #21
    • January 31, 2018, at 12:56 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  22. Marythefifth Member
    Marythefifth Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I just wish posters and podcasters could all agree that they’ll spend a minimum requisite number of minutes acknowledging and criticizing the latest Trump tweet or faux pas and proceed asap to the issues that actually affect our lives. A comment or two about the SOTU pointed out that for many people in this country, it will be the only time they get to hear those positive outcomes of his first year. It seems like such a waste of air & text to argue and rehash and restate Trump’s personal flaws when we could be explaining how the economy works, what the debt crisis means, how we got here, the negative outcomes of govt incentives, how to increase our liberty and why, where and why limited govt works. Let’s not waste any more time discussing Trump himself. Can’t we please move on?

    Comment #19 beat me to it and better.

    • #22
    • January 31, 2018, at 2:36 PM PST
    • 1 like
  23. Saint Augustine Member

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    I think possums, and Terry, are both super cute, though I’d rather snuggle on Terry than a possum!

    Terry is a lucky man. I’m sure my wife would choose a possum over me.

    Oh, wow! Terry’s wife. I had no idea.

    We’ve talked on some thread or other, J. D. All the same, I feel like I’m meeting you for the first time with this new information. Pleased to meet you!

    • #23
    • January 31, 2018, at 3:35 PM PST
    • 1 like
  24. Max Ledoux Admin

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    I think possums, and Terry, are both super cute, though I’d rather snuggle on Terry than a possum!

    Terry is a lucky man. I’m sure my wife would choose a possum over me.

    Oh, wow! Terry’s wife. I had no idea.

    We’ve talked on some thread or other, J. D. All the same, I feel like I’m meeting you for the first time with this new information. Pleased to meet you!

    It’s good to be on Julie’s good side. Because otherwise she sends weird nocturnal animals after you.

    • #24
    • January 31, 2018, at 3:46 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  25. J.D. Snapp Coolidge

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    J.D. Snapp, Possum Aficionado (View Comment):
    I think possums, and Terry, are both super cute, though I’d rather snuggle on Terry than a possum!

    Terry is a lucky man. I’m sure my wife would choose a possum over me.

    Oh, wow! Terry’s wife. I had no idea.

    We’ve talked on some thread or other, J. D. All the same, I feel like I’m meeting you for the first time with this new information. Pleased to meet you!

    I inadvertently started a philosophy thread a few years ago that went entirely over my head. :) Pleased to “meet” you as well!

    • #25
    • January 31, 2018, at 6:47 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  26. Henry Castaigne Member

    I suppose my favorite part of this podcast is when they both emphasized that the world wasn’t ending. It seems all I’ve done since the election of Trump is read apocalyptic dystopian predictions and then think, Eh. Everything seems to be going fine.

    Jonah Goldberg often makes the point that the world isn’t ending but somehow still views Trump as ending the Republican party and conservatism in general. For example, he constantly worries about Trump and millennials (even though millennials are ignorant naives filled with politically correct guilt) but he never talks about how Trump got so many Latinos to vote for him.

    I really hope he can join your podcast or you guys can be guests of the Remnant.

    • #26
    • January 31, 2018, at 10:39 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  27. Henry Castaigne Member

    Flyover Country (View Comment):
    Meaning, Billy Graham may be totally justified, totally correct, and speaking from a good place. But he is unwise to walk into a Church where Bill Maher is ranting, and pile on.

    Andrew Klavan made a similar point in 45:20 of his Monday podcast. In essence, Bill Maher cares nothing for the Christian respect for virtue and is only using their respect for virtue to denigrate their faith. The denigration of that faith is actually more important than the Christian idea of virtue.

    To simplify, when Bill Clinton is a perv, he gets a pass. When Trump is a perv, he has to be impeached. It isn’t really about standards and decency but a political cudgel and no good will come from accepting a false standard and a decency of convenience.

    • #27
    • January 31, 2018, at 10:48 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  28. Hammer, The Member

    Henry Castaigne (View CommentI really hope he can join your podcast or you guys can be guests of the Remnant.

    Hah! That would make my whole year, but I’m afraid the chances are somewhere close to zero.

    • #28
    • January 31, 2018, at 10:54 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  29. Henry Castaigne Member

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Hah! That would make my whole year, but I’m afraid the chances are somewhere close to zero.

    Well at least send him an invitation to be polite. He will have a 97.2% likelihood of saying he is too busy but it will be polite to invite him nonetheless.

    • #29
    • February 1, 2018, at 12:48 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  30. Flyover Country Member
    Flyover Country

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hammer, The (View Comment):
    Hah! That would make my whole year, but I’m afraid the chances are somewhere close to zero.

    Well at least send him an invitation to be polite. He will have a 97.2% likelihood of saying he is too busy but it will be polite to invite him nonetheless.

    Terry and Jonah Goldberg would probably become the best of friends if they ever met in person. Maybe I can convince Terry to go on a National Review cruise.

    • #30
    • February 2, 2018, at 9:48 AM PST
    • 3 likes