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This what I love about Ricochet. The willingness to be open to new evidence.
In that line, I should say that I could be completely wrong about Trump. I don’t think so, but I want to be open to that possibility.
Re: comment 151
What I love about Ricochet is that frequently it feels like friends arguing in good faith, hashing something out.
When Mama Toad has Ricochet people to her house again, I hope I’m able to be there. I’d love to finally meet anyone from Ricochet who can get there.
Meetups are terrific – it’s like finding the closest friends you’ve never met.
There have been many instances where, having met someone in person, and knowing their voice, I get a completely different read on their comments – that new reading is always an improvement over what I had pictured.
One thing everyone seems to overlook in her interview with the Washington Post is this: “She says that her teenage life became increasingly reckless with drinking, drugs, boyfriends, and a suicide attempt when she was 16.” Yesterday I watched her tv interview twice. She didn’t seem the least bit nervous to be on national television for the first time, so one would have to assume she was well coached. What grabbed my attention was her mention of reading Harlequin novels at that time as a justification for expecting “moonlight and roses” rather than the stark reality of an aroused man. There is no way I would have permitted my 14-yr. old daughters to read those books known for their their vivid sex scenes. I wonder if sexual fantasy doesn’t play some part in her memories.
So that you and all can judge from seeing something of the ladies who have appeared in person, I am attaching links to their appearances.
Leigh Corfman
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/roy-moore-accuser-leigh-corfman-i-didn-t-deserve-be-n822416
Beverley Young Nelson
https://qz.com/1128438/roy-moore-accusers-beverly-nelson-a-trump-supporter-says-he-assaulted-her-at-16/
Patti Spradlin (young lady who knew Moore from his appearances at the local Mall)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzjDBaooAuY
Thank you so much for the links. This is a unique and great quality to the Ricochet family; we assume each other’s good faith, and present evidence in support of our positions.
Thanks, @garyrobbins. I don’t quite know why I have become so wrapped up in this topic (to the point that Milady Alice is giving me the “stern eye” for failing to throw myself into readying the house for Thanksgiving; children and their families began arriving Saturday). I suppose that it is because it involves my home State, county, party, people whom I know personally, and an election that I think is important.
I don’t know anything about the charges of sexual misconduct on Moore’s part. I can make a judgment on the facts that have come to light. I should love to have available the tools of the law courts and be able to compel testimony and the production of relevant papers and other information; but we do not.
There are things about Moore that bother me at least as much as his erotic escapades thirty and more years ago (which seem of a piece with life in Washington, New York, and California). Misses Corfman and Young were frightened and hurt but not ravished and there was no innocent child born or aborted. (I say that last as a father of three daughters who cheerfully would have killed him had he done his deeds to one of them.)
We have to make our judgments on the basis of what others have brought to light through diligence, or obscured from the lack of it. And, we have to do so soon, maybe too soon to obtain all the information that we need. So, my efforts have been to assemble such information as I have been able to and to add such personal knowledge and observations as I have and can make.
As I have done that, I added it to this thread in case it interested others of you.
My own opinion has wavered, but not changed. I will, barring something really, really upsetting, vote for Roy Moore on election day. But, I will hope that Senator Moore is the shortest of short-timers.
A happy and blessed Thanksgiving to you all.
Actually, sonny, there is a “sort of kind of” statement by a former boyfriend who is not identified as the one who collected Beverly that night at the Olde Hickory Bar-B-Que. You can judge for yourself whether it has much, if any, value as proof. You will find it here:
https://conservativetribune.com/yearbook-note-moore-accuser-write/?utm_source=push&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2017-11-21&utm_campaign=manualpost
Comment # 154
She comes across as pretty sane to me ( though I will watch or rewatch the stuff at the links M1919A4 provided.) But yes, it does seem she pretty much raised herself.
But I think (well, I like to think) people who survive the process of raising themselves, and emerge from it well intentioned, self examining and honest, have certain helpful insights to give their families or communities that they wouldn’t otherwise have.
Some days I have at least a little faith that God can show you a way to put anything you’ve been through to good use.
One thing that’s come out of these scandals is having it brought to our attention that people in congress (am I understanding this correctly ?) have some sort of a fund for paying for sexual harassment lawsuits. We should organize to put a stop to that. The people we elect need to be responsible for their own behavior.
M1919A4, you’re not the only one getting in trouble with a spouse for not getting off the computer and helping with preparations. I’ve promised mine I’ll stay off for the next 3 hours and then only get on to look at your links and Claire Berlinski’s post before we turn in.
Very Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here !
Since Beverley Young Nelson has been so attacked due to her representation by Gloria Allred, I think that it is helpful to review Leigh Corfman’s story. Patti Spradlin confirms Leigh Corfman’s story.
I think it is funny how none of you old folk in all your coffee Klatches mentioned that Leigh went over to Roy’s house twice, and it was only the second time (for those of you who accept every word of her multiple stories) that he went too far and she told him to take her home, which he immediately did. She also never mentioned if she ever told him her age? She also did not tell us the date of the two times she went to his house, so she certainly could have been 15. Still troublesome, but it still shows some flaws in her story.
That fact has troubled me from the beginning. He certainly knew the age of consent was 16, and since she’s the only underage girl to come forth with a claim, I have wondered whether he knew how old she was. The picture we have seen of her makes her look like Snow White, yet she’s volunteered her checkered past in high school. If he did know her age, I have no sympathy for him, assuming her story is true. Still, when she mentioned the Harlequin novel reading at her young age, a light bulb went off in my head as to where her story really came from.
Re: comment # 162
“That fact has troubled me from the beginning. He certainly knew the age of consent was 16, and since she’s the only underage girl to come forth with a claim, I have wondered whether he knew how old she was.”
Goldwaterwoman, I’ve wondered that myself. But isn’t Marjorie Leigh Corfman the one Moore met outside of a courthouse when she was with her mother ?
My sister—May she rest in peace. She (I think deliberately) ended her life when she stumbled drunk in front of a car.—she was the second worst mother I’ve ever known. Yet, even she managed to find a way to tell any man who so much as glanced at her daughter that the girl was 15. (It used to make that daughter so mad.) How likely is it that Marjorie Leigh’s mom didn’t happen to casually mention the girl’s age to Moore ?
“The picture we have seen of her makes her look like Snow White, yet she’s volunteered her checkered past in high school.”
There’s nothing unusual about a girl getting very wild and self destructive in high school, if something like what Marjorie Leigh describes happens to her when she’s fourteen. It was shortly after my sister was sexually molested at that age that she started drinking, drugging, and letting guys do anything they wanted when she was drunk or drugged.
“Still, when she mentioned the Harlequin novel reading at her young age, a lightbulb went off in my head as to where her story really came from.”
I’ve never been able to make myself read a Harlequin romance. But, if Corfman’s story is made up, she and Patti Spradlin concocted it together. The only fiction I can think of that might have inspired them is a short story by Joyce Carole Oates entitled: ” Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?” (By the way, a good novel by Oates, dealing with the seduction and sexual abuse of older young women, and dealing really with our society’s denial of our spiritual nature, is “Beasts”. An interesting recent post by Western Chauvinist, “Sexual (Im)Morality and (the End of) Due Process”, had me thinking of it.)
I don’t believe Marjorie Leigh Corfman is delusional or lying.
I still hope the people of Alabama vote for this scumbag. If they’re having trouble with the idea of doing that after watching videos of Corfman, Nelson and Spradlin, they can always look at a picture of a dismemberment abortion.
Whoever described Moore as now defanged is correct, I think. His privately virtuous opponent who rationalizes certain evils, and would also enable those evils, is a greater danger. I see no reason that people who see it that way can’t both vote for More and convey to Corfman, Nelson, Spradlin, and to Moore, that these three women aren’t crazy or liars. God bless them for ensuring Moore is defanged.
Interesting development over at Breitbart this morning.
Although a period of 12 days exists between the hearing and when Miss Corfman was required to take up residence with her dad – I am less sanguine than Breitbart regarding the timing questions. To me a bigger issue is that the WaPo says that Miss Corfman exhibited discipline problems following her meeting with Mr. Moore, implying they are as a result of those meetings – ignoring why Ms. Wells was giving up custody of her daughter.
These other details are also problematic.
No phone in the bedroom, not close to her mom’s house at all, 12 days between the meeting in the courtroom and the compulsory move to her dad’s house to combat her behavior problems.
Reads like reasonable doubt to me.
Life is a series of choices and far too often they are not between good and evil brightly colored and high in contrast. Humans are flawed and capable of great love and terrible hate, sweet kindness and horrible violence. The politics of “we the people” are no less fraught with choices between better and worse where “better” is not the same as good.
And it has always been thus. Popular history (they one we all retain, not the detailed study of scholars) is like looking across a field of mountains bathing in clouds. We stand on a high point and see the tops but not the valleys. From that vantage our view is not wrong but incomplete.
Much of this election as with many others will eventually be bathed in clouds, but events will roll forward through the cumulated decisions making new mountains. Which decision will be particularly momentous we cannot tell. We can only stumble forward, making our way as best we can into that uncertain future. May G-d guide Alabama, and the United States of America.
Amen. Very well said. May G-d guide and bless Alabama and the United States of America.
I was shocked to hear the clip on Andrew Klavan’s podcast. I shocked to realized how badly the MSM reported her story. According to the MSM, Moore placed her had on his underwear. According to her, he suggested it, she declined, got dressed and left. One as reported is a sexual assault (assuming the underwear placement was on his genitals). The story she described isn’t. It might constitute attempted assault, but probably not as I heard her describe it.
The age thing is still disturbing, but not criminal.
Re: Comment 167
I went back and forth with this one. The first time I saw her, I immediately thought of a soft spoken, extremely convincing liar in my family. Then, watching her again on the Andrew Klavan show, I changed my mind. I don’t know what I’d think now.
I’m suprised to hear luring a 14 year old away from her home and attempting to seduce her isn’t crime.
I don’t believe her story. There are so many holes in it. After working with many juveniles both in the welfare system and in 4H some of them are very skillful liars. The day she met him, was the day her mother gave her father custody because of behavior problems.
Great discussion for the most part.
Moore is going to win on December 12th and this deliberate attack by the MSM is another one that before Trump would have caused him to lose.
The MSM is the biggest domestic enemy that America has. They despise us regular Americans and want to get control of this country — that’s the takeaway here.
Re comment 169
Yes, there are a lot of holes in her story. Thing is: one of those holes isn’t that she was wild at 14. Unsupervised and wild—a stray cat—is exactly what a predator would be looking for, I would think.
The phone business seems fishy (though it could be that Corfman is simply now reluctant to make her mother look bad by saying her mother wasn’t paying any attention to who was calling her, and was seldom at home with her.)
I’d be interested to know if Corfman has shown anyone the exact house to which Moore supposedly brought her. I know she says he brought her to his house, but can she point to which house that supposedly was ?
Re comment # 164
Instugator, I’m not sure the discrepancy between “around the corner from my house” and a mile away is as large as it might appear. When I was eighteen, I practically ran everyday from my apartment to the place where I worked and, years later, remembered that distance as short. But when I revisited the town, years later, as a heavy, arthritic 50 year old woman, I was suprised to find that I had walked more than 3/4 of a mile to work and then back again when I was 18. The distance I had never before measured felt short to a healthy young person. So that’s how I remembered it.
OK – I can accept the difference in opinion.
Where I grew up (Theodore, Al) the other side of my neighborhood was 0.1 miles away and it was called “the other side of the neighborhood”. For my friends who lived in the city, “around the corner from my house” literally meant walk down to the corner (of the block) turn and look for it there.
I don’t know what to believe about Moore, but I do believe Larry is right. The media cannot hide its hatred of flyover country. If you’re a Republican in flyover country, to attacked by the media is now a benefit. It has the exact opposite effect the media hopes it has.
The media doesn’t seem to understand how much they’ve damaged themselves so they are unable to repair their reputations. This will continue.