More Men Are Adopting the Mike Pence Rule, and Feminists Don’t Like It

 

No man in business or academia with an ounce of common sense is going to let himself be alone with a woman who isn’t his wife in the current social climate. A single allegation of inappropriate behavior — whether legitimate or not — can and will destroy a man’s career. This is the climate feminists have created as their movement morphed from demands for social equality into a litigious Cult of Man-Hatred and quest for political power.

Now, they’re angry (who am I kidding, feminists are always angry about everything and always lecturing men on how to behave) because men are unwilling to set themselves up as victims.

The New York Times reports that men are responding to the Cautionary Tale of Harvey Weinstein and others like it by avoiding their female colleagues, particularly those in a subordinate position. Instead of thinking about the discriminatory practices that allow Weinsteins to grow like persistent fungus, they’re making them an even bigger feature of the workplace. Men fear being accused of sexual harassment, because it would ruin their lives.

Boo freaking hoo. You know what else doesn’t leave you? Being held back in your career because your manager is too scared to make eye contact with you because he’s afraid you’re gonna tell some story about how he harassed you. Or he might feel compelled to grab your boobies, and then he’d lose his job! You did this, Woman.

Yes, actually, you did. It were feminists what demanded that men should be presumed guilty even if proven innocent. It were Feminists what created the concept of “The Male Gaze;” the idea that even looking at a woman is a form of rape. It’s not the cautionary tale of Harvey Weinstein men are responding to; it’s the word-of-mouth and internet-shared anecdotes of what men are experiencing in the real-world; stories the media won’t cover because they don’t fit the Narrative. But everyone knows someone who was accused of something by a female co-worker or colleague, or has at least heard stories about such things.

Let’s face it; for some women, falsely accusing men of bad behavior is a resume enhancer. If it weren’t for false accusations, Mattress Girl would be doing her bondage act in a seedy strip club instead of a Fancy Pants Art Museum.

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  1. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Interesting… used to be women were required escorys to protect them. Now men are willingly seeking escorts to protect themselves.

    We are so backward, but I applaud this turn of events and hope it helps create something more funtional than what we have now.

    • #1
  2. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    All too true and it’s not just the feminists.  We’ve lost so much.  All of us, both sexes,  need to spend more time in Romance language countries where relationships are so much more natural. Of course we like women and women like men and they show it all the time, but it’s not a come on it’s just mutual appreciation and it enriches life.

    • #2
  3. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Victor Tango Kilo: Let’s face it; for some women, falsely accusing men of bad behavior is a resume enhancer. If it weren’t for false accusations, Mattress Girl would be doing her bondage act in a seedy strip club instead of a Fancy Pants Art Museum.

    She’s not attractive enough for a strip club.

    • #3
  4. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Honestly, while feminists are intellectual facile, petulant and destructive, many of us in the business world are setting up defensive meeting spaces because many men, straight and gay, are pigs and the culture, despite the reign of witches on campuses, broadly models piggishness.

    • #4
  5. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo: Let’s face it; for some women, falsely accusing men of bad behavior is a resume enhancer. If it weren’t for false accusations, Mattress Girl would be doing her bondage act in a seedy strip club instead of a Fancy Pants Art Museum.

    She’s not attractive enough for a strip club.

    I didn’t say a *good* strip club.

    • #5
  6. Mendel Inactive
    Mendel
    @Mendel

    I wouldn’t blame feminism as much as human nature. (Although the fact that some aspects of human nature are unalterable might be even harder for feminists to accept.)

    Some non-trivial percentage of men will not be able to suppress their inner sexual/romantic desires when placed in close professional contact with females. Period. We can’t change this fact, we can just work around it.

    And the options for that are: a) punish men for even an accusation of bad behavior (i.e. the new status quo), which will inevitably lead men to avoid close professional contact with women altogether; b) give men the benefit of the doubt in the absence of hard evidence, which will tip the balance against women and lead them to avoid close professional contact with men, or c) create the Big Brother world Quake Voter describes above.

    Feminists have any easy time claiming that all men are potential predators, but much more difficulty accepting the obvious consequence of that belief – namely that it will preclude a normal professional working environment.

    • #6
  7. Michael Minnott Member
    Michael Minnott
    @MichaelMinnott

    Stina (View Comment):
    Interesting… used to be women were required escorys to protect them. Now men are willingly seeking escorts to protect themselves.

    We are so backward, but I applaud this turn of events and hope it helps create something more funtional than what we have now.

    The moral hazard of this is the current phenomenon of MGTOW.  Men are avoiding not just professional contact with women, but social contact as well; marriage and family.  The associated costs and dangers  of women have made a growing number of men see them as too toxic to deal with at all.

    I think many conservatives mistakenly saw feminism as a response to the hedonism and “free love” of times past and made common cause thinking it would promote traditional social mores.  Instead it has been a pact with the devil that only furthered social decay.

    • #7
  8. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Mendel (View Comment):
    create the Big Brother world Quake Voter describes above

    Well my Big Brother world is pretty menacing:  conduct interviews and evaluations with my partners, one a 50ish Korean woman with a heart of gold and the resting face and fact based attitude of Joe Friday.  I’ve also cut back on the restaurant, barroom and ballpark budget, which never contributed to the bottom line anyway.  Besides I’m 52 and a Mets fan.

    Not exactly Airstrip One.

     

    • #8
  9. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    This all stems from the fact that there is no definitive list of behaviors that constitute “sexual harassment” or “creating an uncomfortable work environment ” or whatever the current euphemisms are.   Any language/situation that is perceived as such can create guilt.     But it is always a posteriori.   The perception is the key.    One can never know, a priori, if a particular thing constitutes a crime until it is perceived and judged by the female(s) present.    So the rational risk-minimizing response is to eliminate all interactions.

    Example.    You attend an out of town meeting with a colleague.    At the end of the work day do you ask “Want to grab some diner and a drink?”   Seems perfectly innocent and reasonable among work colleagues.   But …  That depends on the colleague.     If your colleague is female this might be construed as an unwelcome sexual advance.    So the smart thing to say at work day’s end is “I’m grabbing a cab back to the hotel.   I’ll see you tomorrow.”

     

    • #9
  10. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    This all stems from the fact that there is no definitive list of behaviors that constitute “sexual harassment” or “creating an uncomfortable work environment ” or whatever the current euphemisms are. Any language/situation that is perceived as such can create guilt. But it is always a posteriori. The perception is the key. One can never know, a priori, if a particular thing constitutes a crime until it is perceived and judged by the female(s) present. So the rational risk-minimizing response is to eliminate all interactions.

    Example. You attend an out of town meeting with a colleague. At the end of the work day do you ask “Want to grab some diner and a drink?” Seems perfectly innocent and reasonable among work colleagues. But … That depends on the colleague. If your colleague is female this might be construed as an unwelcome sexual advance. So the smart thing to say at work day’s end is “I’m grabbing a cab back to the hotel. I’ll see you tomorrow.”

    And if you are with another male co worker or two, and you get together without the female, that’s being exclusionary, and perpetuating the ” boys club”.   I’m so glad I’m almost at retirement….

    • #10
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    This all stems from the fact that there is no definitive list of behaviors that constitute “sexual harassment” or “creating an uncomfortable work environment ” or whatever the current euphemisms are. Any language/situation that is perceived as such can create guilt. But it is always a posteriori. The perception is the key. One can never know, a priori, if a particular thing constitutes a crime until it is perceived and judged by the female(s) present. So the rational risk-minimizing response is to eliminate all interactions.

    Example. You attend an out of town meeting with a colleague. At the end of the work day do you ask “Want to grab some diner and a drink?” Seems perfectly innocent and reasonable among work colleagues. But … That depends on the colleague. If your colleague is female this might be construed as an unwelcome sexual advance. So the smart thing to say at work day’s end is “I’m grabbing a cab back to the hotel. I’ll see you tomorrow.”

    We’ve gone from the “Reasonable Man” standard to the “Unreasonable Woman” standard.

     

    • #11
  12. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    For the first two-thirds of my career, I worked in an all male environment.  When I got my first assignment to a “coed” organization, I was a little trepidatious as to how it would work out.

    It was/is all good.  Sometimes the job includes coed travel to other installations or countries.  I basically hew to the same rules as VP Pence.  An officer (when I was one) is charged with avoiding the “misconduct and the appearance of misconduct.”  Works for me; as a married guy, there is no way I’ll go to dinner with another female, one-on-one, unless it’s at the hotel bar.

    Most of the women at my organization are pretty awesome, though.  And I think, given the nature of the job, that there is a kind of self-selection process for the women who work here.  All (military and civilian) seem able to give as good as they get.

    One time one of our female subject matter experts took some actions that basically kept me and another guy (AG)–from an all male unit– from going to jail.

    Me: God, I love her.

    AG: Yeah, she’s hot.

    Me: If by “hot” you mean smart, motivated, competent, and principled, then yes, yes she is.

    Praise be that I’ve never had to work with/for some of the shrewish harpies described here.

     

    • #12
  13. GeneKillian Coolidge
    GeneKillian
    @GeneKillian

    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly. We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world.  I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem. It’s really not that difficult.

    • #13
  14. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Don’t be caught by yourself with an underperforming gay man either.

    ask me how I know.

    • #14
  15. Mendel Inactive
    Mendel
    @Mendel

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly. We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world. I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem. It’s really not that difficult.

    It isn’t until it is.

    I agree that most people know how to act like professional adults. But as so often, it’s the 5% who don’t that can ruin it for the 95% who do.

    I’ve also worked in offices where male and female colleagues were alone in offices, went out for drinks together, or even to conferences together, and nothing untoward happened and nobody felt uncomfortable. I’ve also seen previously-collegial workplaces get transformed overnight by a single incident, either real or fabricated. Even if the guilty party is dealt with, it’s amazing how quickly a workplace culture can turn into a prison on lockdown when someone presses a serious allegation.

    • #15
  16. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    As if we needed another reminder that leftists and feminists (but, I repeat) ruin everything.

    • #16
  17. Dean Murphy Member
    Dean Murphy
    @DeanMurphy

    Boy Scouts had the perception of abuse to deal with, and they instituted the no one on one contact.  There must always be 2 adults present if there are boys present.  I think that would work for situations like this: whenever mixed company is involved, there must always be 2 adults present.

    • #17
  18. barbara lydick Inactive
    barbara lydick
    @barbaralydick

    Ah, the wages of feminism.  It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t.  Looking back some years when the Vocal Few were swinging their heavy hammer, first in colleges and universities and then in the work place, it managed to hit everything – including women.

    At the slightest misstep, men were literally placed in the position of having to prove a negative, for example, of proving they didn’t mean a remark in the way it was heard.  Lawsuits ensued; the lawyers got rich; the man was often fired, or at the very least, his career derailed – but not before he spent a four-week stint in Sensitivity Training Hell. That there he was labeled as evil didn’t much motivate him to interact easily with women. And the company, well – a lot of money went into constructing bureaucratic mazes that reached into every level of the organization to document Herculean efforts at attempting to eradicate the uncomfortable, the unpleasant, and the inconvenient. (Leading to less money for raises one could easily surmise.) Also, what man was going to close his office door when talking with a woman?  But we have to ask, Where is the most valuable information shared?  Behind closed doors.

    Women were also moved away from valuable sources of information in informal settings: companies had policies that prohibited men and women from traveling together to business meetings or staying at the same hotel once they reached their destination.

    Things managed to calm down a bit for a while, but today it looks like we’re back to square one.

    • #18
  19. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    Don’t be caught by yourself with an underperforming gay man either.

    ask me how I know.

    Guru, I think I need some more information here.

    I think.

    • #19
  20. LC Member
    LC
    @LidensCheng

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    Don’t be caught by yourself with an underperforming gay man either.

    ask me how I know.

    How do you know?

    • #20
  21. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly.

    Okay, the implicit assumption is that you’re married, and you feel no need to be “chaperoned,” if you will, by a group setting.  And that the lovely and talented Mrs. GeneKillian is like, “roger that, got no issues, keep doing what you’re doing.”

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world.

    Who, in the wide, wide world of sports said ‘don’t talk to half the world?’  What the silly Pence rule says is “don’t have leisure time as a married man with a female, unaccompanied.”  That seems a far cry from not talking to “half the world.”

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem.

    Then you don’t work in an area where people want to destroy, weaken or compromise you based on being able to paint your most innocent coed moments with a terrible brush in order to accomplish an agenda.  Good!  Good for you.

    Copy.

    • #21
  22. Randy Webster Member
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Kozak (View Comment):
    I’m so glad I’m almost at retirement….

    I’m just glad it furthers no one’s career to have dinner with me.

    • #22
  23. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly. We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world. I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem. It’s really not that difficult.

    It isn’t until it is.   The problem is that most opposite sex coworkers are not an issue.  Until you run across one of the ones that are.  All they have to say is you made them feel uncomfortable or threatened then it is all over.  Guy gets to head to the door.  If he is luck it does not make it to the industry at large and thus game over.

    • #23
  24. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    One example of how many companies have responded to this issue.  Many places are now fishbowls.  All offices and meeting rooms have glass walls to public areas.  I hate that I am now in meetings and constantly distracted by everybody walking down the hall waving hands.  Nothing like talking about proprietary information on screens that can be seen and recorded half the building away.

    • #24
  25. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    LC (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    Don’t be caught by yourself with an underperforming gay man either.

    ask me how I know.

    How do you know?

    Had a bogus claim made against me.

    All levers of power will be used by desperate or malicious people.

    • #25
  26. Pony Convertible Member
    Pony Convertible
    @PonyConvertible

    Stina (View Comment):
    Interesting… used to be women were required escorys to protect them. Now men are willingly seeking escorts to protect themselves.

    We are so backward, but I applaud this turn of events and hope it helps create something more funtional than what we have now.

    Good point, and exactly correct.  A few months ago my boss asked me to go on a trip with a female coworker.  I told him I wouldn’t go unless someone went as well. I will not travel alone with a woman that is not my mother, sister, daughter, or wife.  In fact, it has been my policy for decades never to be alone with any other woman.  This includes meals in a public restaurant.  After all, I have to protect my reputation. If accused, I am automatically guilty, and really have no way of defending myself.

    • #26
  27. Pony Convertible Member
    Pony Convertible
    @PonyConvertible

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly. We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world. I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem. It’s really not that difficult.

    Good luck.  I was accused of spending my lunch hour in a hotel with a female coworker, who I barely knew.  Fortunately, I had spent said lunch hour with several other coworkers.  I found out later the woman had stalked another guy at work, and had made similar, and also proven to be false, accusations.

    It is like wearing a seat belt, or a PFD, or having a fire extinguisher handy.  You may not have needed any of them for 30 years, but you never know.  It certainly is not silly.  It is very serious business.

    • #27
  28. Hypatia Inactive
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    They made fun of Pence for behavior that is no more than  the most basic prudence.  As a professing Christian and Republican, he is a prime target for false claims of sexual abuse.

    Let me warn everyone against minors, too–never be alone with a kid, even for a minute.  ( Dad, don’t give the babysitter a ride home–call her a cab!) The only thing worse than these accusations of invitation to sexual conduct to an adult woman ( God how shocking!) is  any whiff of child molestation.  It could happen to anybody.

    Last night Hannity showed a montage of jokes  made at awards ceremonies and within TV shows about Weinstein’s history of groping and propositioning women.

    I think Weinstein should not apologize, he should call a press conference and say:

    Yup!  I took,advantage of every attractive young woman who came  my way.  I habitually asked and expected them to trade sexual favors for advancement in Hollywood, and most of them knew it  when they sought out an interview with me.

    Any you,  my colleagues, you all  knew it too.  You used to think it was funny, remember? ( if you don’t, Lordy,,there’s tapes..)

    why doesn’t he just tell this truth?  Name names of other people in Hollywood who’ve done the same? I don’t see how it could make things any worse for him at this point.

    And for the rest of us, it would just be –so refreshing!

    Plus , it occurs to me, it would be the best way of forestalling future “victimization” of wannabe starlets.  They couldn’t say they weren’t warned.

    • #28
  29. The Whether Man Inactive
    The Whether Man
    @TheWhetherMan

    GeneKillian (View Comment):
    For what it’s worth, I often have lunch or dinner alone with female colleagues, and I intend to continue doing so, because I think the Pence rule is silly. We’re adults and I’m not going to prohibit myself from talking to half the world. I just stay respectful and professional, and avoid off color topics. In thirty years in the workforce I’ve never had a problem. It’s really not that difficult.

    Opposite sex lunches or dinners at conferences to catch up with colleagues are pretty normal in my field too, I think.  Male profs avoid being alone with female grad students, because the power differential can add a dangerous element there, but otherwise I’ve neither had nor observed any issues with this.  The Pence rule is a little too strict, and doesn’t take into account that opposite sex colleagues might also be friends. The last time I went out in such a scenario, we spent half the meal asking after each others’ spouses and families.

    • #29
  30. Daniel Brass Inactive
    Daniel Brass
    @DanielBrass

    Vice President Pence was right to do this.  Not just for his marriage (his reason for doing this and one I greatly respect) but by following his rule he prevents anyone from ever accusing him of harassment.  This is the world we live in. Feminists created it, I don’t care if they complain about it.

     

    • #30

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