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  1. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    I’ll say “Yes”, but only in places where guns are already heavily restricted.

    • #1
  2. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    I will partially echo Stad and say “yes,” but really what new laws short of confiscation/banning would have prevented this? From what I have seen–and admittedly it is limited–they guy had no criminal record and seemed like the type of guy who could have successfully acquired ATF permission to have the weapons used legally.

    • #2
  3. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    The gun control crowd will never relent, will use every tragedy to push their agenda, and get angrier and more determined with each new tragedy.  People who should know better  and the usual political cowards will gradually accommodate and restrictions will creep forward.  But of course restrictions will make gun violence worse and confiscation will be the next target after prohibition of inter state transport or some such.  The effort to collect guns will divide and give rise to greater violence.  If the anti gun folks had a magic wand and could make all guns disappear we’d then have a robust illegal trade across all borders and decentralized fabrication.   The people who have guns would be a couple of notches worse, like drug thugs.  Three dimensional printers would enjoy robust growth and the materials a technical boom.  Lets face it guns can be broken down, transported in pieces and we can’t even stop fully grown humans who choose to penetrate our border and are far more difficult to break into pieces, but such arguments mean nothing to the far left because it’s never about the the thing in question. It’s always about power and, of course, popular fantasy used to enhance it.

    • #3
  4. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    The bump-stock will be banned.

    • #4
  5. Hypatia Inactive
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    I read Paddock was a Democrat.  It’s time we took guns away from those maniacs.

    • #5
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I don’t think there will be new legislation, for a couple of reasons. First, people think that a gun will protect them from crazy people like the one in Las Vegas. I wouldn’t be surprised to see gun sales pick up again, and Conservatives aren’t the only ones buying them. Of course, carrying a gun in this most recent situation would not have helped. Second, there will be much hand-wringing and ranting about the need for gun laws. But at some level, people (I think) are just beginning to understand that all the gun laws in the world will not protect them from this kind of situation. Over and over again we realize that the shooters would not have been stopped by any of the current legislation, and they won’t be held in check by any proposed laws either. So we can watch people rant and rave, get it out of their systems, and let them feel righteous. The gun legislation, if proposed, will fail.

    • #6
  7. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    No.

    I remember going to work the morning after Sandy Hook. The night guy was absolutely gleeful about it. He said “They’ve finally had their Port Arthur Moment!” he was certain that Sandy Hook would drive a movement to get rid of the 2nd amendment.

    If a maniac can kill children and nothing much changes – a maniac killing adults won’t change anything.

    • #7
  8. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    We shouldn’t politicize tragedy when it’s raw, but afterward, it’s an opportunity – we keep getting opportunities to change things and don’t. Like the gun issue – those types of assault rapid fire guns developed for military don’t belong in civil society. You don’t need to fire 50 rounds into a home intruder or a deer.  It’s also obvious we can no longer have open air events without much stricter preparations.

    I also don’t believe this guy did this for gambling debt – he could jump out a window – but that kind of preparation, hate and evil to rein down on innocent people is not just gambling debt.  There’s more to the story.  The people closest to him knew something.

    • #8
  9. Mendel Inactive
    Mendel
    @Mendel

    No idea whether this will actually result in any meaningful legislation.

    But if the left can manage to reign in its emotions enough to play this one strategically, it will go after bump stocks.

    The best thing the left can do is make gun rights supporters defend the seemingly absolutely indefensible, so that the left can say “see, these guys really are madmen”. Commercial devices which allow legal firearms to fire at automatic weapons rates fit that bill pretty well – little plausible need for them in self-defense or hunting, they are now implicated in the largest mass killing in US history, and automatic weapons are already illegal (a prohibition with which many gun advocates agree).

    However, there is always a segment on the right that opposes any and all new restrictions on firearms on principle alone. And the left will have a field day holding those people up as exemplary of the entire population of gun owners.

    • #9
  10. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Logically the answer should be no. The public supports gun rights and Republicans control the House, Senate, and Presidency.

    Then again, this Congress has already sold out the base on Obamacare and is busy selling them out on immigration. They also know that their base can do nothing to them because they would be replaced by a Democrat Congress that would be full progressive. The Republican establishment is betting that fear of a Democrat-created language police and re-throttling of the economy will protect Republican incumbents. And gun control legislation would make Republican lawmakers more popular at D. C. parties. So, new gun control legislation in three . . . two . . .

    Seawriter

    • #10
  11. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    My suspicion is that the Left is in a rush to create as much of a smoke storm as they can before the real facts in the case are known. This looks more and more to me like the shooting at the Congreassional ballgame. The furor of the Left over the loss of the election and the election of Trump has made them go from the sublime to the ridiculous. The fact that Country music is often associated with right wing politics leads me to speculate that the shooter, enraged by the anti-Tump rhetoric, chose to attack a large group of what he perceived as Trump supporters.

    My belief is that once the facts are known, the Left and the Media will be seen as the cause of this latest outrage, and even though they are unlikely to accept blame, their cries for more gun-controls will slowly die away as they have in the past until there is another incident. Then, history forgotten, they will once again drag out their banners and outrage and try again.

    • #11
  12. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I really wish the country would stop focusing on the weapon the shooter chose and look at other pieces of the crime. A mass murderer has many weapons to choose from these days–from biological agents to chemical agents to bombs. To me, it’s really important to look at the psychology of the crime more than the weapon.

    I’d look at television shows and movies, for example. I’m not saying they cause crime, but do they plant suggestions in people’s minds?

    My husband and I are fans of NCIS and have watched it for years. There were one or two episodes a few years ago that dealt with “exsanguination”–in other words, the murderer killed his victim by draining the blood out of the victim while the victim was alive. Horrible to contemplate even for a second, and the nightmares ensued.

    I was quite shocked to skim (not read–and I urge readers to do what I did, lest you have nightmares too) this story that appeared a couple of weeks ago, particularly this statement made by the Los Angeles medical examiner:

    Dr Ribe said: “I have never seen this before. And I doubt hardly any forensic pathologists in this country or abroad have even seen this, outside of, perhaps, wartime . . . it’s extremely rare.”

    Could this crime have been inspired by those episodes of NCIS?

    More broadly, are our television, movie, and crime novel writers concocting “recipes” for criminals to act on?

    “Copycat” murders have been around for a long time, about as long as the printing press and Jack the Ripper.

    I’m not proposing an answer. Just asking that we widen our search for the cause of the mass shootings and other horrifically violent crimes that we see.

     

    • #12
  13. Kevin Creighton Contributor
    Kevin Creighton
    @KevinCreighton

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    The bump-stock will be banned.

    Variations of the Slide-Fire stock that this loser used have been around for decades (see “Hellfire trigger” for one of the more common ones). They can ban such things, and human ingenuity will then come up with something else to get around the ban and produce the same results.

    • #13
  14. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    I read Paddock was a Democrat. It’s time we took guns away from those maniacs.

    Better yet … let’s outlaw Democrats.

    • #14
  15. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    We shouldn’t politicize tragedy when it’s raw, but afterward, it’s an opportunity – we keep getting opportunities to change things and don’t. Like the gun issue – those types of assault rapid fire guns developed for military don’t belong in civil society. You don’t need to fire 50 rounds into a home intruder or a deer. It’s also obvious we can no longer have open air events without much stricter preparations.

    No but you do need them to repulse an oppressive government. Look I don’t think we should be selling bazookas or M1-Abrams tanks to individuals, but at the very least our small arms need to be comparable to oppressors in Washington. Who are you to say what I need for home protection?

     

    • #15
  16. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):
    The bump-stock will be banned.

    Probably true. And which will do absolutely nothing. See @franksoto ‘s youtube video … http://ricochet.com/459428/can-someone-explain-this-bump-stock-thing-to-me/#comment-3933843

    • #16
  17. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I really wish the country would stop focusing on the weapon the shooter chose and look at other pieces of the crime. A mass murderer has many weapons to choose from these days–from biological agents to chemical agents to bombs. To me, it’s really important to look at the psychology of the crime more than the weapon.

    I’d look at television shows and movies, for example. I’m not saying they cause crime, but do they plant suggestions in people’s minds?

    My husband and I are fans of NCIS and have watched it for years. (NCIS is the most watched American television show internationally.) There were one or two episodes a few years ago that dealt with “exsanguination”–in other words, the murderer killed his victim by draining the blood out of the victim while the victim was alive. Horrible to contemplate even for a second, and the nightmares ensued.

    I was quite shocked to skim (not read–and I urge readers to do what I did, lest you have nightmares too) this story that appeared a couple of weeks ago, particularly this statement made by the Los Angeles medical examiner:

    Dr Ribe said: “I have never seen this before. And I doubt hardly any forensic pathologists in this country or abroad have even seen this, outside of, perhaps, wartime . . . it’s extremely rare.”

    Could this crime have been inspired by those episodes of NCIS?

    More broadly, are our television, movie, and crime novel writers concocting “recipes” for criminals to act on?

    The concept of “copycat” murders has been around for a long time, about as long as the printing press and Jack the Ripper.

    I’m not proposing an answer. Just asking that we widen our search for the cause of the mass shootings and other violent crimes that we see.

    Yeah of course, his lawyers are going to plea that he is mental unfit for trial.

    • #17
  18. Kevin Creighton Contributor
    Kevin Creighton
    @KevinCreighton

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    Like the gun issue – those types of assault rapid fire guns developed for military don’t belong in civil society. You don’t need to fire 50 rounds into a home intruder or a deer.

    Like the free speech issue – the type of rapid fire media developed for the government doesn’t belong in civil society. You don’t need to fire off 50 words in a post or on Twitter.

    FIFY.

    • #18
  19. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Yeah of course, his lawyers are going to plea that he is mental unfit for trial.

    I’m worried about how to prevent crimes like this.

    • #19
  20. JeffHawkins Coolidge
    JeffHawkins
    @JeffHawkins

    You’ll note Democrats when they have power never bring out this legislation

    It’s almost always triangulation to get Republicans to sell out their base.

    No.  But I would not be surprised if Jared and Ivanka’s lefty tendencies whisper some things in Donald’s ear.

    • #20
  21. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Yeah of course, his lawyers are going to plea that he is mental unfit for trial.

    I’m worried about how to prevent crimes like this.

    Well I think in your comment lies a problem: prevent crimes. How does a state prevent crimes without become dictatorial? Are we to treat the whole despotically just to catch the very few?

    The issue is not prevention of crimes but of full prosecution of crimes when they are committed. In the story you linked to, we are dealing with someone who has an obvious depraved heart, which is one of the common law traits of murder. Whether he is mentally capable to stand trial or not should not be the issue when measured against his actions, which certainly display a cruel nature that needs to be punished. His lawyers are trying to mitigate his sentencing from, what was it, life in prison to a conviction more or less like life in psychiatric evaluation. My view on this is why do we need to preserve this guy’s life at all? If he is a nutjob capable of this kind of seriously depraved act–he scalped the mother of his child such that the skull was bare all the way to the neck!–then he is no less deserving of death to remove him from society as is a “normal” depraved murderer.

    • #21
  22. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    No.  I’ll be astounded if any legislation is passed by the house and senate about anything at all.  Regarding firearms this is a good thing.

    • #22
  23. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    They will try, they always do.  But they will not succeed in getting anything passed.

    • #23
  24. Hypatia Inactive
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    MarciN (View Comment):
    I really wish the country would stop focusing on the weapon the shooter chose and look at other pieces of the crime. A mass murderer has many weapons to choose from these days–from biological agents to chemical agents to bombs. To me, it’s really important to look at the psychology of the crime more than the weapon.

    I’d look at television shows and movies, for example. I’m not saying they cause crime, but do they plant suggestions in people’s minds?

    My husband and I are fans of NCIS and have watched it for years. There were one or two episodes a few years ago that dealt with “exsanguination”–in other words, the murderer killed his victim by draining the blood out of the victim while the victim was alive. Horrible to contemplate even for a second, and the nightmares ensued.

    I was quite shocked to skim (not read–and I urge readers to do what I did, lest you have nightmares too) this story that appeared a couple of weeks ago, particularly this statement made by the Los Angeles medical examiner:

    Dr Ribe said: “I have never seen this before. And I doubt hardly any forensic pathologists in this country or abroad have even seen this, outside of, perhaps, wartime . . . it’s extremely rare.”

    Could this crime have been inspired by those episodes of NCIS?

    More broadly, are our television, movie, and crime novel writers concocting “recipes” for criminals to act on?

    “Copycat” murders have been around for a long time, about as long as the printing press and Jack the Ripper.

    I’m not proposing an answer. Just asking that we widen our search for the cause of the mass shootings and other horrifically violent crimes that we see.

    I thought of Designated Survivor.  A rich white guy is the villain.  I totally agree with you about the danger of copycat crime.

    But if they could blame this on right-wing  views, we’da heard about it by now.  I saw a forensic psychologist on Fox  this AM.  He says “spectacle killings” like James HOlmes, are “a young man’s game”.  A sixtyish killer is more likely to have had a cause in mind. Like James  Hodgkinson.

    Maybe Paddock thought this would be the gun massacre to end all gun massacres, force action on gun confiscation.

    Maybe attacking a casino crowd has something to do with Trump.

    The other awful possibility is just that Paddock is s sociopath who thought, hey, I could do whatever I want.  Why don’t  I go out on a mass murder, that’s something I’ve never done….from what I’ve read, sociopaths dont always kill, but it’s a toss up whether they will or not, because they don’t have the empathy and fellow-feeling that makes most of us reluctant to torture other people.

    • #24
  25. James Golden Inactive
    James Golden
    @JGolden

    No.  Every time there is a mass-shooting, cries for more gun legislation begin again.  But none are ever enacted.  At the federal level, there is no chance of any legislation any time soon given the Republican control of Congress.  As the state level, Republicans dominate most states, and even many Democrats silently favor gun ownership.  So, I don’t foresee any significant new legislation being enacted as a result of this tragedy.

    • #25
  26. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The other awful possibility is just that Paddock is s sociopath who thought, hey, I could do whatever I want.

    Yup. In fact, the thought crossed my mind that if he is the person his brother describes him to be, without any history of anything to explain it, that it might be a case similar to the central plot line of the Steve McQueen movie The Thomas Crown Affair, in which a rich guy simply wants to prove he can do it. McQueen plays a good guy, but suppose this evil Paddock is watching all these mass shootings over the years and thinking he could “pull it off” somehow. As crazy as that sounds, if you are that evil and you want to cause mayhem and terror and you want to kill and wound a lot of people because you are inhumanly sadistic, which I should have put first, the game of it may be motive enough.

    • #26
  27. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I am not the only person to worry about the impact of seeing a steady dose of unthinkable violence on television shows and in the movies. When 24 was on the air, the military called Jack Bauer (Kiefer Sutherland) to task for showing such horrific torture on the show. From the first article that popped up on Google with respect to this problem with 24:

    The United States Military Academy at West Point yesterday confirmed that Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan recently travelled to California to meet producers of the show, broadcast on the Fox channel. He told them that promoting illegal behaviour in the series–apparently hugely popular among the U.S. military–was having a damaging effect on young troops.

    According to the New Yorker magazine, Gen. Finnegan, who teaches a course on the laws of war, said of the producers: “I’d like them to stop. They should do a show where torture backfires. . . . The kids see it and say, ‘If torture is wrong, what about 24?’ The disturbing thing is that although torture may cause Jack Bauer some angst, it is always the patriotic thing to do.”

    The meeting in November was arranged by Human Rights First, a nonprofit organisation that has launched a campaign against torture both in the real world and on television. It says that since the terror attacks of September 11, the incidence of torture in television shows has soared. In 2000 there were 42 scenes of torture on prime-time U.S. television while in 2003 there were 228.

    The group’s David Danzig said: “I think there is no question [it is having an effect]. We have spoken to soldiers with experience in Iraq who say, for young soldiers, there is a direct relationship between what they are doing in their jobs and what they see on TV. . . . It’s the same abroad. The image of the U.S. and its military [being involved in torture] is being affirmed.”

     

    • #27
  28. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    • #28
  29. Michael Shaw Thatcher
    Michael Shaw
    @MichaelShaw

    Next door to my apartment building is a Rexall Drug store where I may purchase various chemical reagents found in household cleaning products. Anyone who has completed high school chemistry could mix these to create poison gas capable of causing grievous injury and death to many people. Firearms, while sufficient, are not necessary for someone with evil intentions to create a mass causality event.

    • #29
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