Reaching Out from the Left

 

I’m not really sure what kind of discussion I’m trying to start here, but I just feel the need to put these thoughts somewhere.

I’m honestly not completely sure exactly where I fit on the political spectrum. I’m definitely leaning more to the left on most issues, but I recognize that I’m a bit of an idealist and that a lot of the strong progressive ideas that I like are simply too difficult or complex to actually work well in our society. Still, I like their ideas and I hope to keep looking for rational ways to support them or compromises between my idealism and realism that could implement policy to improve the life of my family, neighbors, and fellow Americans. For example, I’m a middle school science teacher in a very economically diverse school district, so it’s easy for me to want to give unlimited opportunities to all of my students but also easy to see why beneficial programs can be so hard to fairly implement countrywide or even just at my own school.

I always feel that when you take a stance on something, you should look into the counter argument as much as possible and challenge yourself, ensuring that you are making the most informed decision you can. I started listening to the Ricochet podcast during the election, and haven’t stopped since. I can’t say I always agree with everything they say and on rare weeks I get a little angry and find I just need to walk away from it for a day. But in general I’ve enjoyed the challenge of looking at the other side and seeing what they have to say.

I joined this community after being hounded by them to support the podcast, and did a while back, but was never really sure what to say. I suppose the events of this past weekend compelled me to finally reach out and at least remind myself there are other sane people out there. I worry about these huge, knee-jerk reactions to horrible events that just seem to drive people in the political spectrum farther and farther apart. I’m not in any way a fan of Donald Trump, but how do I know that an extremely leftist Democratic candidate won’t be nominated in the future as their reaction to him? (Admittedly, most of the things I have against him are just his persona and Twitter feed and not necessarily all of his policies.)

But if we keep having these extreme reactions to one another, nothing will ever get done. Congress and the Senate seem to always vote straight up and down party lines, resulting in such an ineffective government. As far as I can tell, little is done to actually get input on bills and laws from the other party. Instead, one constantly insults the other, alienating them and all the people they represent. We need to actually reach across to one another, acknowledge that we disagree, but find some compromise or common ground on larger issues like health care and environmental regulation that could be more beneficial. This bickering, both in the government and on our twitter feeds is honestly driving me nuts.

We can’t continue down this path of pushing each other further and further away. I’m not imagining this image of everything with rainbows and puppy dogs, but we can do better than what we are all doing now. I’m guilty of generalizing the “other side” too, but that’s why I’m here.

I guess this is more of an introductory post to myself and the community, but I hope to hear some of your thoughts on everything I just wrote up there. I didn’t mean for it to be too long, but like I said, I hope to challenge some of the beliefs that I hold, I hope to challenge some of yours, and I hope we can help each other see our perspectives in order to realize that we are all humans and can come up with sane, rational ideas that move away from the craziness that is the current mood of political hysteria.

Thanks for reading. Hope to hear from you and I hope you’ll be seeing me around the boards a little bit more. Feel free to ask any questions on my views and I’d be happy to share more.

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  1. OldDan Rhody Member
    OldDan Rhody
    @OldDanRhody

    pclark: I’m a middle school science teacher

    Welcome aboard from another (relatively) newcomer.  You may find yourself in the middle of some arguments here, but nobody is going to be as hard on you as those middle-schoolers can be.

    • #1
  2. Mike H Inactive
    Mike H
    @MikeH

    What a lovely post. Thank you for writing it.

    It’s hard to know where to begin. I’ll just start by saying, perhaps the “disfunction” of the government is a blessing rather than a curse. The mentality to “do something” often leads to more problems than fixes.

    • #2
  3. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Welcome! It’s always nice to have voices we disagree with for robust discussion.

    • #3
  4. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Welcome aboard.

    • #4
  5. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Welcome :)

    • #5
  6. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    I applaud your willingness to engage those you consider the other side.  I hope it bears fruit, in that you can find an understanding of us and we of you.  It is quite possible to disagree yet understand and respect those differences.   You have taken an important step towards that for all of us here on Ricochet.  Looking forward to arguing with you!

    • #6
  7. Locke On Member
    Locke On
    @LockeOn

    Welcome!  I would be very interested in reading about your teaching experiences and lessons learned.

    • #7
  8. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    pclark: We need to actually reach across to one another, acknowledge that we disagree, but find some compromise or common ground on larger issues like health care and environmental regulation that could be more beneficial.

    Unfortunately the art of compromise has been subverted by the courts. Once political groups discovered it was easier to shop for a judge that would impose their preference the political process became obsolete.

    Then pile on to that what we’ve actually done to the political process. Executive orders side step the Constitutional provision for advice and consent and agency regulations take the place of the legislature.

    The people on both sides are going to be have to be willing to give up these authoritarian institutions we’ve inflicted upon ourselves. Since politics is about power I don’t hold much hope.

    Otherwise, welcome. I hope we intellectually challenge each other.

    • #8
  9. AUMom Member
    AUMom
    @AUMom

    Middle school teachers are a saintly folk. Welcome to Ricochet. On most any given subject, you’ll find somebody who agrees with you and someone who doesn’t. I have never understood how any one group of people is supposed to be monolithic in their belief system. No two people are. How can a whole group be?

    • #9
  10. CJ Inactive
    CJ
    @cjherod

    Welcome aboard! I’m fairly new here myself.

    • #10
  11. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    AUMom (View Comment):
    Middle school teachers are a saintly folk.

    You can say that a thousand times. I can’t imagine being in charge of 30 hormonal barbarians for 8 hours a day…

    • #11
  12. pclark Inactive
    pclark
    @pclark

    EJHill (View Comment):

    pclark: We need to actually reach across to one another, acknowledge that we disagree, but find some compromise or common ground on larger issues like health care and environmental regulation that could be more beneficial.

    Unfortunately the art of compromise has been subverted by the courts. Once political groups discovered it was easier to shop for a judge that would impose their preference the political process became obsolete.

    Then pile on to that what we’ve actually done to the political process. Executive orders side step the Constitutional provision for advice and consent and agency regulations take the place of the legislature.

    The people on both sides are going to be have to be willing to give up these authoritarian institutions we’ve inflicted upon ourselves. Since politics is about power I don’t hold much hope.

    Otherwise, welcome. I hope we intellectually challenge each other.

    This is likely a good case of where I’m still an idealist who believes there’s good and honesty in all people. Constantly having this thought of “the system is broken” can’t be all that constructive. My hope is that politicians and people get better at constructive communication so people are less inclined to use those tools to go after laws that they don’t like. Help people see where others are benefiting from that law or regulation and convince them that it’s worth their own inconvenience. A fool’s dream probably, but one I don’t care to give up on just yet.

    • #12
  13. Mate De Inactive
    Mate De
    @MateDe

    Hey PCLark. Welcome to Ricochet. It’s great that you want to engage with a bunch of people who disagree with you. I think Dr Jordan Peterson explains it best as to why it is good to engage with people who you disagree with.

    https://youtu.be/UN7HNNTW9js

     

     

     

     

    • #13
  14. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    One thing I hope you find is that often we have similar end goals. Where we differ is how to get there. And if we are as reasonable as you have expressed yourself here, we should be able to at least discuss them.

    For example, you mention that you want to see unlimited opportunities for your students. I think almost all of us would like to see that too. Will more or less activist government involvement be more likely to get the most opportunity for the most students? Thank you for being willing to listen. I hope we do as well.

    • #14
  15. pclark Inactive
    pclark
    @pclark

    AUMom (View Comment):
    Middle school teachers are a saintly folk. Welcome to Ricochet. On most any given subject, you’ll find somebody who agrees with you and someone who doesn’t. I have never understood how any one group of people is supposed to be monolithic in their belief system. No two people are. How can a whole group be?

    Thanks for the kind words :)

    I totally agree and that’s mostly what brought me here. Politics has completely become a team sport where your beliefs and identity are completely defined by what box you checked on voter registration. It drives me bonkers to see people say “all leftists/conservatives want x, y, z…”. Absolutely not.

    • #15
  16. Matt Bartle Member
    Matt Bartle
    @MattBartle

    pclark: I’m honestly completely sure exactly where I fit on the political spectrum.

    Did you mean, “I’m not honestly…”?

    • #16
  17. tigerlily Member
    tigerlily
    @tigerlily

    Welcome Aboard!

    • #17
  18. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Fantastic, welcome.  There’s a huge range of views here, but even folks I see as rather liberal consider themselves conservative and libertarians because they believe in liberty and the constitution.    There are few if any progressives.

    I don’t think the two parties can reach across the aisle except when they’re spending other people’s money, then they just carve up the pork and have to trade to do so.  On the other hand they vote for very similar policies, and then tweak them in very similar ways so they de facto reach across the aisle, it’s just the Republicans have to pretend to be conservative while  providing rents to their big supporters and liberals get to be themselves,  while  providing rents to their supporters.    Sometimes these interests overlap and they can cooperate,  but almost always it’s pork for farmers or banks or other powerful interests who are big enough to play both sides.  This sad state of affairs is what makes most of us here hostile to the progressive administrative state but not to liberals.  We always hope they’ll figure things out.

    • #18
  19. pclark Inactive
    pclark
    @pclark

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    pclark: I’m honestly completely sure exactly where I fit on the political spectrum.

    Did you mean, “I’m not honestly…”?

    Hahaha yep. Good find.

    • #19
  20. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    For those who’ve been around for awhile, remember when @katebraestrup thought she was going to be in disagreement a lot, and then we all found out we had much more in common than in difference.

    • #20
  21. PHCheese Inactive
    PHCheese
    @PHCheese

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    One thing I hope you find is that often we have similar end goals. Where we differ is how to get there. And if we are as reasonable as you have expressed yourself here, we should be able to at least discuss them.

    For example, you mention that you want to see unlimited opportunities for your students. I think almost all of us would like to see that too. Will more or less activist government involvement be more likely to get the most opportunity for the most students? Thank you for being willing to listen. I hope we do as well.

    FST, I used to believe that will all had similar goals but differed on how to achieve them. I no longer believe that. Nearly half of all Democrats voted in the primary for Bernie and his socialist belief. I am sorry but I don’t want to live in Venezuela North. The three culprits arrested for toppling the statue in NC belong to Socialist World Worker Party. They are entitled to their opinions but again they don’t want and share a belief in America.

    Welcome pclark. I may often disagree with you but will fight to the death for your right to say it. You have moved to a good neighborhood here at Ricochet.

    • #21
  22. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Welcome.  I was going to commend you for bravery, but walking into a 7th grade classroom 180 times a year is a Seal mission compared to this boot camp.

    A couple of questions:

    pclark: I’m a bit of an idealist and that a lot of the strong progressive ideas that I like are simply too difficult or complex to actually work well in our society.

    Could you expand here a bit.  It’s a key statement.  Is the problem with the ideas being too complex and difficult.  Are they double reverse flea flicker lateral drop kicks that cannot work off the chalkboard (that’s my take)?  Or are the American people not intelligent and thoughtful enough to make these workable ideas actually work?   Is the progressive mission to actively “evolve” Americans — including their schoolkids — to measure up to these progressive ideals?

    Also, and meaning no insult, how complicated and difficult are progressive ideas?  Honestly they seem ancient and somewhat hackneyed.  Take money and property rights from the “privileged” and distribute them through a forceful federal government to achieve a just outcome for the voting groups which support the ceaseless efforts to reform and reconstruct every American institutions from midget wrestling to the Supreme Court.

    Of course, I’m defining “progressive” within the Warren-Sanders-Corbyn spectrum and not including the center-left Hickenlooper-Nelson-Tester-Bennet democrats.

    Maybe we could start a conversation about progressive ideas and practical realities in our middle schools?

    • #22
  23. pclark Inactive
    pclark
    @pclark

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    One thing I hope you find is that often we have similar end goals. Where we differ is how to get there. And if we are as reasonable as you have expressed yourself here, we should be able to at least discuss them.

    For example, you mention that you want to see unlimited opportunities for your students. I think almost all of us would like to see that too. Will more or less activist government involvement be more likely to get the most opportunity for the most students? Thank you for being willing to listen. I hope we do as well.

    FST, I used to believe that will all had similar goals but differed on how to achieve them. I no longer believe that. Nearly half of all Democrats voted in the primary for Bernie and his socialist belief. I am sorry but I don’t want to live in Venezuela North. The three culprits arrested for toppling the statue in NC belong to Socialist World Worker Party. They are entitled to their opinions but again they don’t want and share a belief in America.

    Welcome pclark. I may often disagree with you but will fight to the death for your right to say it. You have moved to a good neighborhood here at Ricochet.

    But that’s the attitude I want to fight against. These are all people. Maybe they’re misguided and Bernie’s ideas would have failed. What good does it do to give up on half of Democrats, or a quarter of the voting population and call them unamerican? Reach out to them. Get to know them. Figure out why they believe what they believe. I’ve found a lot of political beliefs come from some sort of fear, sometimes unnecessary fear, but fear nonetheless. You don’t ease others’ fear by giving up on them.

    • #23
  24. Postmodern Hoplite Coolidge
    Postmodern Hoplite
    @PostmodernHoplite

    Welcome aboard, @pclark – greetings from a fellow middle school science teacher.

    • #24
  25. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Have fun.   98-99% of people here will engage you politely regardless of your opinions on abortion/LGBT/climate change/universal health care/gun rights/free speech/entitlement programs.  I get along great with my left wing patients but I do have the advantage of having their nads in my hand when I make a grand point.  This becomes more awkward outside of my office.

    • #25
  26. Richard Easton Coolidge
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Thanks for your post.  I grew up in Oxon Hill, Md. and hope in a couple of years to be spending lots of time in Annapolis working on a biography.  As other people have mentioned, there’s vigorous debate on the right about various issues.  In spite of politician differences, I hope that you feel that you fit in with other Ricochetti.

    • #26
  27. pclark Inactive
    pclark
    @pclark

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Could you expand here a bit. It’s a key statement. Is the problem with the ideas being too complex and difficult. Are they double reverse flea flicker lateral drop kicks that cannot work off the chalkboard (that’s my take)? Or are the American people not intelligent and thoughtful enough to make these workable ideas actually work? Is the progressive mission to actively “evolve” Americans — including their schoolkids — to measure up to these progressive ideals?

    Also, and meaning no insult, how complicated and difficult are progressive ideas? Honestly they seem ancient and somewhat hackneyed. Take money and property rights from the “privileged” and distribute them through a forceful federal government to achieve a just outcome for the voting groups which support the ceaseless efforts to reform and reconstruct every American institutions from midget wrestling to the Supreme Court.

    Of course, I’m defining “progressive” within the Warren-Sanders-Corbyn spectrum and not including the center-left Hickenlooper-Nelson-Tester-Bennet democrats.

    Maybe we could start a conversation about progressive ideas and practical realities in our middle schools?

    Thanks for the questions! I intentionally was a little vague since there are so many routes to take a conversation these days and wanted to keep it a little more introductory. Sorry if I was unclear about some of my ideas but I figured I’d bring them up in future conversations from time to time.

    I can’t think of a progressive argument off the top of my head concerning schools, but I think boiling progressive ideas down to taking money or property from “privileged” is a dark way of looking at it. I come from a very privileged household and am very comfortable currently, and if taking more out of my paycheck to help the underprivileged, then by all means go for it. What is difficult is how you go about improving their lives? Do you create more incentives? Do you invest in their education? Do you give them better infrastructure? This is what I mean by the ideas being complex. Throwing money at a problem doesn’t help. Intelligently using money does. If the government happens to be the tool you use to make this work, so be it. Is the government the best tool to use money intelligently? Probably not, but where are our other options?

    I by no means mean to imply that you personally do not care about the underprivileged, and I do not hope to “evolve” my students to share my beliefs. I hope to teach them to look at the information around them and seek the answer that betters themselves and the world around them. I’m trying to do that by learning more points of view by posting and discussing things here.

    Again, thanks! And I’ll try to post something later about a more specific topic if this hasn’t cleared things up.

    • #27
  28. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    DocJay (View Comment):
    I get along great with my left wing patients but I do have the advantage of having their nads in my hand when I make a grand point. This becomes more awkward outside of my office.

    Maybe you could wear gloves all the time or buy copious amounts of hand moisturizer? Or just wear a lab coat everywhere to inspire trust.

     

    • #28
  29. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    In all seriousness, I always suggest that people who start studying politics on any side begin with reading Thomas Sowell. Though listening to him is a close second.

    • #29
  30. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    AUMom (View Comment):
    Middle school teachers are a saintly folk.

    Middle schoolers: Old enough to resent being treated like kids, still too young to start acting like adults.

    • #30
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