Manafort’s Destiny

 

Robert Mueller III, aka Bobby Three Sticks, authorized a pre-dawn raid on Pauly “foreign bucks” Manafort only July 26. Reading Manafort’s history, he seems like a typical DC parasite, gobbling dollars from whoever he can and delivering results. Lord knows what his banking records will end up showing but I bet there will be some malfeasance. He’s a slimy man, in a slimy town, run by slimy people who pretend their way to riches and power.

The origin of this raid is likely based on the FBI not believing him. Why should they? He’s a lawyer, lobbyist, political consultant, and DC fixer. Nobody in those jobs in DC has an ounce of ethics. They all rationalize away the existence of Hell, probably God as well.

The goal of this raid was to find dirt. The goal of the dirt is to get Manafort in enough legal trouble that he turns on anyone else he has info on or anyone he can make up info on. Solid strategy and one that was never used in the IRS scandals, not because the GOP was unable, but because they were unwilling. They’re unwilling because they are all corrupt as well in their own ways and the last admin spied on everyone.

So what is Manafort’s destiny? Any guesses? I’d tell him to “go west young man” but Alcatraz is closed and Horace Greeley must be a hetero-normative white male oppressor of social justice.

I bet they find unrelated wrongdoing and tell him it’s decades in prison or turn on a Trump kid or in-law. I’m guessing he will count on a presidential pardon for his loyalty rather than be a rat or even worse — be a rat over something untrue.

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  1. civil westman Inactive
    civil westman
    @user_646399

    DocJay (View Comment):

    civil westman (View Comment):
    Banana republics at least have the decency to conduct actual revolutions from time to time, instead of surreptitious coups d’état, claiming to be mere operation of law. “Rule of Law, “Consent of the Governed,” “Of the people, by the people and for the people…” have descended to become risible propaganda worthy of Goebbels. In case you missed it – America is over.

    If you’re right then America is over and adherence to laws and rules is only for the suckers.

    Let’s say non-adherence seems to not matter as to favored identity groups (i.e. designated “oppressed” people). On the other hand, a hetero white male who works hard, lives right and pays his taxes is afforded no protection from political persecution/prosecution by virtue of following the law. Prosecutorial discretion today makes all political things possible in the judicial branch. Watch what you say – the lesson of the Google manifesto writer, so far is job loss. “Hate speech” charges may soon follow. Not in America, you say??

    • #31
  2. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

    I’m not sure what the crime would be.  I wouldn’t complain if Putin gave me say, $30 million, and I wouldn’t think that it was a crime.

    • #32
  3. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

    I’m not sure what the crime would be. I wouldn’t complain if Putin gave me say, $30 million, and I wouldn’t think that it was a crime.

    Say 35 and throw a nickel in for your fellow music lover.

    I think the crime is non-disclosure but it may be deemed as merely inappropriate.

    Manafarts turncoating is the goal.  About what I have no clue. If it’s an invent a crime on a Trump child that gets pushed hard I doubt the country will respond positively.

    This is a tangled web.

    • #33
  4. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    DocJay (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

    I’m not sure what the crime would be. I wouldn’t complain if Putin gave me say, $30 million, and I wouldn’t think that it was a crime.

    Say 35 and throw a nickel in for your fellow music lover.

    I think the crime is non-disclosure but it may be deemed as merely inappropriate.

    Manafarts turncoating is the goal. About what I have no clue. If it’s an invent a crime on a Trump child that gets pushed hard I doubt the country will respond positively.

    This is a tangled web.

    Wasn’t a lot of his involvement with the Russians before he worked for the Trump campaign?

    • #34
  5. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

    I’m not sure what the crime would be. I wouldn’t complain if Putin gave me say, $30 million, and I wouldn’t think that it was a crime.

    Say 35 and throw a nickel in for your fellow music lover.

    I think the crime is non-disclosure but it may be deemed as merely inappropriate.

    Manafarts turncoating is the goal. About what I have no clue. If it’s an invent a crime on a Trump child that gets pushed hard I doubt the country will respond positively.

    This is a tangled web.

    Wasn’t a lot of his involvement with the Russians before he worked for the Trump campaign?

    He has a long history of foreign money from some dubious people over the decades in addition to working on many GOP campaigns.  I only know the all mighty Wikipedia page.  Sorry.  I mostly wanted to use the 19th century mantra of the US in the title, flash my Greeley card, insult democrats, and make fun of crooked or incompetent republicans.

     

    • #35
  6. NYLibertarianGuy Inactive
    NYLibertarianGuy
    @PaulKingsbery

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    Pilli (View Comment):
    Pre-dawn? Is there such a thing? Don’t the Cretins know that life begins after coffee at 9:00 AM. Good Grief!

    As for Manafort, he’s toast. Unless Trump does his pardon thing. Interesting thought: What if Trump pardoned each person that was being investigated in this fiasco? One at a time as their names were made public. None of them would have any reason to testify. Case over?

    A pardon would not itself relieve anyone of his or her responsibility to testify. It might change the leverage that the Special Counsel has over potential witnesses, but failure to give testimony to a grand jury is still punishable as civil contempt. In fact, often prosecutors have to grant immunity to witnesses in order to compel their testimony before a grand jury.

    Plus, I expect at some point, issuing a high number of pardons would begin to reflect poorly on the President. But then again, nothing else he has done seems to discourage his supporters. So what do I know?

    What I’ve learned from Clinton/Obama is that people can do whatever they want to legally and get away with it if they come from the protected class. I doubt teflon Don will have as much leeway.

    Yes pardons for true crimes would reflect very poorly to all but the president’s serious supporters. Pardons for a witch hunt ‘find a crime’ for the man might be dismissed easily, at least by me.

    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

    If it’s a crime it’s a crime. Tax evasion about some old Ukraine garbage or business issue pre campaign is witch hunt. I am positive a guy like him isn’t clean.

    Using his position in the campaign to get personal bribes from anyone, foreign powers being worse, seems like it ought to be punished. Severely.

    So, I think we are largely in agreement.

    What really gives me pause about Manafort is the omission of support for Ukraine in the GOP platform.  Manafort was heavily involved in the Trump campaign at that time and the omission is inexplicable without some approval/acquiescence from the top levels of the campaign.

    That in itself is not a crime.  But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    • #36
  7. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    Pilli (View Comment):
    Pre-dawn? Is there such a thing? Don’t the Cretins know that life begins after coffee at 9:00 AM. Good Grief!

    As for Manafort, he’s toast. Unless Trump does his pardon thing. Interesting thought: What if Trump pardoned each person that was being investigated in this fiasco? One at a time as their names were made public. None of them would have any reason to testify. Case over?

    A pardon would not itself relieve anyone of his or her responsibility to testify. It might change the leverage that the Special Counsel has over potential witnesses, but failure to give testimony to a grand jury is still punishable as civil contempt. In fact, often prosecutors have to grant immunity to witnesses in order to compel their testimony before a grand jury.

    Plus, I expect at some point, issuing a high number of pardons would begin to reflect poorly on the President. But then again, nothing else he has done seems to discourage his supporters. So what do I know?

    What I’ve learned from Clinton/Obama is that people can do whatever they want to legally and get away with it if they come from the protected class. I doubt teflon Don will have as much leeway.

    Yes pardons for true crimes would reflect very poorly to all but the president’s serious supporters. Pardons for a witch hunt ‘find a crime’ for the man might be dismissed easily, at least by me.

    So, just a follow up question on that. What if–and this is entirely speculative and hypothetical–Mueller discovered strong evidence that Manafort himself was receiving undisclosed payments from Russian sources? Nothing about the campaign as a whole or the President mind you, just that Manafort was in the back pocket of Russian oligarchs or their fellow travelers while working as the manager of Trump’s campaign. Would that fall into the “witch hunt” category or the “true crime” category, in your view?

     

    Using his position in the campaign to get personal bribes from anyone, foreign powers being worse, seems like it ought to be punished. Severely.

    So, I think we are largely in agreement.

    What really gives me pause about Manafort is the omission of support for Ukraine in the GOP platform. Manafort was heavily involved in the Trump campaign at that time and the omission is inexplicable without some approval/acquiescence from the top levels of the campaign.

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front.  Who knows ?

    • #37
  8. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    DocJay (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    anonymous (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Yah but if they really are after you can you really out run their assassins?

    I got out in 1994. No assassins yet, or at least any who have succeeded. My garden is flourishing. Sub umbra floreo.

    You’re relocating to Belize?

    That looks like a frat initiation ritual.

    Or the line to get into a Milo Yiannopoulos party.

    • #38
  9. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    …..

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front. Who knows ?

    Also: let’s not forget that there is no specific charge let alone smoking gun. Looks bad? What looks bad? Bad how? Politically or criminally? Let’s keep our heads firmly in place here. No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    • #39
  10. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    DocJay: Solid strategy and one that was never used in the IRS scandals, not because the GOP was unable, but because they were unwilling. They’re unwilling because they are all corrupt as well in their own ways and the last admin spied on everyone.

    This is the most important part of your post.

    • #40
  11. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    “Pre-dawn” — was it really? Yes, I just checked.

    Or as Slate called it, “the coolest kind of raid.”

     

    • #41
  12. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    DocJay: Solid strategy and one that was never used in the IRS scandals, not because the GOP was unable, but because they were unwilling. They’re unwilling because they are all corrupt as well in their own ways and the last admin spied on everyone.

    This is the most important part of your post.

    Indeed.

    • #42
  13. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    …..

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front. Who knows ?

    Also: let’s not forget that there is no specific charge let alone smoking gun. Looks bad? What looks bad? Bad how? Politically or criminally? Let’s keep our heads firmly in place here. No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    Yet the GOP is mostly silent.    It won’t end well I fear.

    Yes this Clinton cover up has gone way too far.

    The FBI found someone they know is guilty of something.   Their next steps will be to blackmail him

     

    • #43
  14. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    Excellent.

    And we all know that Republicans can be depended on to NOT do what is both right and effective. They are The Incompetents.

    • #44
  15. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Larry Koler (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    Excellent.

    And we all know that Republicans can be depended on to NOT do what is both right and effective. They are The Incompetents.

    I see a musical group here,  Mitch McConnell and The Incompetents

    • #45
  16. NYLibertarianGuy Inactive
    NYLibertarianGuy
    @PaulKingsbery

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    …..

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front. Who knows ?

    Also: let’s not forget that there is no specific charge let alone smoking gun. Looks bad? What looks bad? Bad how? Politically or criminally? Let’s keep our heads firmly in place here. No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    I don’t think you understand how investigations work.  When there is suspicion that criminal conduct has occurred, prosecutors begin an investigation and follow the evidence.  Here, Manafort’s admitted disclosure failings give more than an adequate basis for suspicion to investigate.  To prejudge the entire investigation as a “witch hunt” is almost as irresponsible as assuming that Manafort is guilty.  It is certainly no less of a partisan position.

    Mueller (and Comey before him) was trusted as an experience, non-partisan investigator until GOP partisan concerns became threatened.  Blindly attacking the investigator, rather than arguing the merits, suggests weakness.  Not strength.

    • #46
  17. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    Mueller (and Comey before him) was trusted as an experience, non-partisan investigator until GOP partisan concerns became threatened. Blindly attacking the investigator, rather than arguing the merits, suggests weakness. Not strength.

    I don’t think the attacks on Mueller are “blind” at all. We pretty much know where his loyalties lie, and it’s with a specific political party that isn’t spelled G.O.P.

    Let’s not forget that the only reason Mueller was appointed was because Comey leaked his own memos to the NYTimes — with the stated objective of getting a special prosecutor.

    How quickly people forget Comey’s own self-incriminating testimony on the matter. (Why is that man still walking around free, anyway? Do we just not investigate Democrats anymore?)

    It pisses me off that taxpayers are paying for their perfidy.

    • #47
  18. NYLibertarianGuy Inactive
    NYLibertarianGuy
    @PaulKingsbery

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
    Mueller (and Comey before him) was trusted as an experience, non-partisan investigator until GOP partisan concerns became threatened. Blindly attacking the investigator, rather than arguing the merits, suggests weakness. Not strength.

    I don’t think the attacks on Mueller are “blind” at all. We pretty much know where his loyalties lie, and it’s with a specific political party that isn’t spelled G.O.P.

    Let’s not forget that the only reason Mueller was appointed was because Comey leaked his own memos to the NYTimes — with the stated objective of getting a special prosecutor.

    How quickly people forget Comey’s own self-incriminating testimony on the matter. (Why is that man still walking around free, anyway? Do we just not investigate Democrats anymore?)

    It pisses me off that taxpayers are paying for their perfidy.

    How do you know where Mueller’s loyalties lie?  What crime exactly are you suggesting Comey committed?

    Mueller was appointed because Trump fired Comey, and the only remaining DOJ officials who could have supervised the investigation at that point, Rosenstein and Sessions, were involved in the firing.  Whether Comey’s statements after his termination made the appointment of a special counsel more or less likely is entirely speculative.

    You sound like you are just following the Trump Party line, rather than thinking critically about the situation.

    • #48
  19. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    …..

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front. Who knows ?

    Also: let’s not forget that there is no specific charge let alone smoking gun. Looks bad? What looks bad? Bad how? Politically or criminally? Let’s keep our heads firmly in place here. No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    I don’t think you understand how investigations work. When there is suspicion that criminal conduct has occurred, prosecutors begin an investigation and follow the evidence. Here, Manafort’s admitted disclosure failings give more than an adequate basis for suspicion to investigate. To prejudge the entire investigation as a “witch hunt” is almost as irresponsible as assuming that Manafort is guilty. It is certainly no less of a partisan position.

    Mueller (and Comey before him) was trusted as an experience, non-partisan investigator until GOP partisan concerns became threatened. Blindly attacking the investigator, rather than arguing the merits, suggests weakness. Not strength.

    There’s this whole tarmac thingy that blasted that trust straight to hell.  How is Comey’s behavior defensible here?

    Also, this investigation is, like all witch hunts, out to find anything wrong anywhere.  It becomes a self-sustaining thing rather than a focused, specific answer.  They must find a crime that the president or his kids or in-laws had knowledge of.

    The buzz now is Manafort’s son-in-law being leaned on to convince Manafort to squeal about anything he knows about anything.

    Furthermore, the goal will be prove that the president’s  odd  handling of the partisan insider Comey  (IMO) construes obstruction but it helps to have a crime that someone is obstructing.   Finding a crime, any crime, anywhere, is the goal and we all know that will be easy with political people.

    • #49
  20. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):
     

    You sound like you are just following the Trump Party line, rather than thinking critically about the situation.

    Yeah, just accuse me of being a Trump-worshiper. That’ll shut me up.

    • #50
  21. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Moderator Note:

    Uncalled for.

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    anonymous (View Comment):
    When the Deep State comes against you, you can fight them or get out of Dodge

    Yah but if they really are after you can you really out run their assassins? If movies have taught me anything is that the CIA has a near inexhaustible supply of hit men able to assume non-assuming identities. In fact if the Deep State is so much after you why would they not just assassinate you and replace you with one of their vat grown mind controlled clones? You have no idea how deep the Deep State conspiracy goes. It is even bigger than the Mason Vampire Zionist Illuminati conspiracy and that one basically runs the world. The Deep State they run the Nega World which is the real world that exists on the opposite side of your eye lids. You can only see it when you blink.

    I’m not mad! I’ve seen them with my own two ears.

    Oh, ha haha hoo-HA!!….tears running… you’ve made us see  how ridiculous it is to be paranoid about the government!  I mean, after Clapper lying about spying on the US Congress,  but still, somehow, being heard to,opine about public affairs–after the Obama ummaskings–how can anyone  be so paranoid?

    You remind me of Lord Haw-Haw.

    • #51
  22. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    We can do better here folks.  All of us, and I mean me too.   Major differing opinions and this is a serious issue.   If Anti-Trump people feel baited, no reason for them to respond as well as the Pro Trump people responding to being baited also.  We’ve had those pointless talks and it derails things.

    No reason for someone to bait and no reason to respond.

    PS Donald Trump is the risen messiah.  As long as we start from there we can talk.

     

    • #52
  23. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    @DocJay– Fwiw, have you ever thought of having a part-time gig as an online columnist. There is an Australian author I like named John Birmingham who writes for the Brisbane Times. His views are usually too liberal for me but he is very good at  political satire (he is also an excellent sci-fi writer; check out his ‘Weapons of Choice’). I’d say you are as least as good, and you might attract a sizeable readership.

    • #53
  24. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    As someone who has spent a bit of time studying the Intelligence agencies of the world, I can say this without reservation. The FBI continued role as the counterintelligence agency of the USA is a major threat to the National Security and Foreign Policy of the country. To many times I have read of serious breaches to National Security being perpetrated by FBI agencies and the Prosecutors they serve.

    • #54
  25. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    The Goal of the CIA is to prevent attacks from happening.

    The Goal of the FBI is to convict criminals and make cases.

    See the difference.  Who do you want protecting you?

    • #55
  26. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    anonymous (View Comment):
    When the Deep State comes against you, you can fight them or get out of Dodge

    Yah but if they really are after you can you really out run their assassins? If movies have taught me anything is that the CIA has a near inexhaustible supply of hit men able to assume non-assuming identities. In fact if the Deep State is so much after you why would they not just assassinate you and replace you with one of their vat grown mind controlled clones? You have no idea how deep the Deep State conspiracy goes. It is even bigger than the Mason Vampire Zionist Illuminati conspiracy and that one basically runs the world. The Deep State they run the Nega World which is the real world that exists on the opposite side of your eye lids. You can only see it when you blink.

    I’m not mad! I’ve seen them with my own two ears.

    Oh, ha haha hoo-HA!!….tears running… you’ve made us see how ridiculous it is to be paranoid about the government! I mean, after Clapper lying about spying on the US Congress, but still, somehow, being heard to,opine about public affairs–after the Obama ummaskings–how can anyone be so paranoid?

    You remind me of Lord Haw-Haw.

    I must say I don’t understand the moderators comment on this post. I have no problem with it. Who by the way is lord Haw Haw?

    Just remember to always take me literally, and sometimes seriously.

    Let’s though discuss the unmasking scandal? Where is that at the moment? All the information on who and what was unmasked is available to the executive branch which is run by who? Right. It’s run by Trump the unparanoid. In all this time since those revelation have they offered up the proof of what was or wasn’t inappropriately unmasked? No, they leave the charges to hang in the air, but offer no further clarity on the point. Almost as if the obfuscation serves their purposes. Now there is a real conspiracy? Though it is rather petty, as most of these conspiracies turn out  to be.

    So if I laugh off the general paranoia about the Deep State it is only because your paranoia seems to be so self serving politically.

    • #56
  27. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    The Goal of the CIA is to prevent attacks from happening.

    The Goal of the FBI is to convict criminals and make cases.

    See the difference. Who do you want protecting you?

    Yes, they’re not coming to save you — they’re coming to arrest your killer.

    • #57
  28. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    I must say I don’t understand the moderators comment on this post. I have no problem with it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Haw-Haw

    Glad you didn’t have a problem with it, but I do take issue with one member likening another member to a Nazi collaborator.

    And once that sort of comment is let stand in a post, the post quickly deteriorates.

    • #58
  29. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    anonymous (View Comment):
    When the Deep State comes against you, you can fight them or get out of Dodge

    Yah but if they really are after you can you really out run their assassins? If movies have taught me anything is that the CIA has a near inexhaustible supply of hit men able to assume non-assuming identities. In fact if the Deep State is so much after you why would they not just assassinate you and replace you with one of their vat grown mind controlled clones? You have no idea how deep the Deep State conspiracy goes. It is even bigger than the Mason Vampire Zionist Illuminati conspiracy and that one basically runs the world. The Deep State they run the Nega World which is the real world that exists on the opposite side of your eye lids. You can only see it when you blink.

    I’m not mad! I’ve seen them with my own two ears.

    Oh, ha haha hoo-HA!!….tears running… you’ve made us see how ridiculous it is to be paranoid about the government! I mean, after Clapper lying about spying on the US Congress, but still, somehow, being heard to,opine about public affairs–after the Obama ummaskings–how can anyone be so paranoid?

    You remind me of Lord Haw-Haw.

    I must say I don’t understand the moderators comment on this post. I have no problem with it. Who by the way is lord Haw Haw?

    yuh, that’s what i’da expected….

    Just remember to always take me literally, and sometimes seriously.

    Let’s though discuss the unmasking scandal? Where is that at the moment? All the information on who and what was unmasked is available to the executive branch which is run by who? Right. It’s run by Trump the unparanoid. In all this time since those revelation have they offered up the proof of what was or wasn’t inappropriately unmasked? No, they leave the charges to hang in the air, but offer no further clarity on the point. Almost as if the obfuscation serves their purposes. Now there is a real conspiracy? Though it is rather petty, as most of these conspiracies turn out to

     

    –who by the way is Samantha Power?

    So if I laugh off the general paranoia about the Deep State it is only because your paranoia seems to be so self serving politically.

    –then I guess we’re both gettin’  a chuckle!,

     

    • #59
  30. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    NYLibertarianGuy (View Comment):

    …..

    That in itself is not a crime. But it looks bad in view of Manafort’s past ties to pro-Russian factions in Ukraine.

    It looks less bad that he was removed from the campaign though.

    Don’t you think this is about ” go to jail or sing like a bird ?

    His foreign ties may have indeed been hidden by him and his old GOP bonafides put out front. Who knows ?

    Also: let’s not forget that there is no specific charge let alone smoking gun. Looks bad? What looks bad? Bad how? Politically or criminally? Let’s keep our heads firmly in place here. No need to become Manafort fans, but are we really so inured to all this that our first response isn’t: what’s the charge and what’s the evidence? Perhaps more importantly: this witch hunt is intolerable; either produce specific charges and specific evidence or drop it immediately – this is America and you don’t just get to root around people’s lives endlessly simply because some partisan smear campaign got out of control. Every single Republican should be saying this first and last, every time they speak.

    I don’t think you understand how investigations work. When there is suspicion that criminal conduct has occurred, prosecutors begin an investigation and follow the evidence. Here, Manafort’s admitted disclosure failings give more than an adequate basis for suspicion to investigate. To prejudge the entire investigation as a “witch hunt” is almost as irresponsible as assuming that Manafort is guilty. It is certainly no less of a partisan position.

    …..

    You are really a great asset to Ricochet NYLG. I mean that. Thanks for explaining how investigations work. Seriously. Because I was operating with the false idea that an investigation was supposed to start with an identifiable crime/event and then an investigation would find and examine evidence regarding that crime. Now I realize that it’s enough to simply suspect someone is a nogoodnik.

    • #60
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