The Trump Spectrum

 

Inspired by this comment from @jameslileks.

  1. Never Trump: They truly believe he is so awful that even the chaos that would ensue after removing him from office does not outweigh the benefits of said removal. Examples: Bill Kristol.
  2. Anti-Trump: They too believe he is awful, but recognize that we are stuck with him. They may occasionally admit that he has done some good things, but usually only grudgingly. Examples: Mona Charen, John Podhoretz.
  3. Trump Skeptics: They don’t like him, they don’t trust him, but they are trying to keep an open mind. They criticize him frequently but try to keep it constructive. They probably didn’t vote for him but are trying to be gracious losers. Some of them may even concede that the good outweighs the bad but insist that the bad still needs to be addressed. Examples: Ben Shapiro, Most of NRO, I place myself here as well.
  4. Reluctant Trump: They don’t particularly like him, but they think we should give him the benefit of a doubt. They will generally cite Hillary Clinton as their primary (if not their only) motivation for voting for him. Examples: Andrew Klavan, Peter Robinson(?).
  5. Trump Defenders: They admit he’s made mistakes but either think the good outweighs the bad to such a degree as to make the mistakes not worth discussing, or they believe the forces aligned against him are so great that spending too much time on the mistakes is “piling on.” Examples: Victor Davis Hanson, Dennis Prager.
  6. Trump Apologists: The only thing he’s done wrong is not play by The Rules. Everything wrong with the administration is entirely the fault of his enemies. All critics are either pearl-clutching elitists and/or open borders globalists. Example: Sean Hannity.

Resolved: Groups 4-6 have a vested interest in believing that Group 1 is far larger than it really is and that Group 6 is a strawman. Groups 1-3 have a vested interest in the reverse, and I myself am far from innocent in this. As with many questions of this nature, reality is far closer to a bell curve. For both sides to accept this is the first step towards reconciliation.

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There are 219 comments.

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  1. bridget Inactive
    bridget
    @bridget

    Fred, if you actually need an explanation of all the havoc that Supreme Court decisions have wrecked, you wouldn’t understand it.

    • #211
  2. profdlp Inactive
    profdlp
    @profdlp

    Fred Cole (View Comment):

    profdlp (View Comment):
    Hey, Fred. @bridget listed three Supreme Court cases above that went 5-4. I notice you were afraid to tackle those directly. Why don’t you share your nuanced and complex understanding of how these don’t matter? (You can skip the abortion one, as we know that 2/3* of libertarians don’t give a crap for inconvenient unborn children.)

    I didn’t say they don’t matter. They do matter, they’re just not apocalyptic. The Supreme Court isn’t some super-legislature where you get your policies passed if your team has the right number of seats. It’s an appellate court.

    Citizens United was a great decision, to be sure. But it could’ve easily gone the other way. (I think if Roberts had it to do over, considering the blow back from the decision, if he had it to do over with, he might have voted the other way.) But if it had, then you deal with it and move on. It’s not the end of the Republic.

    Look at Roe. The Supreme Court made their ruling, legal abortion is the law of the land. Did everyone accept it and move on? No, of course not. The decision wasn’t the final word, instead it’s been a running fire-fight for four decades.

    Again, I’m not saying the Supreme Court isn’t important, it’s just not apocalyptic.

    Now, I realize that OMG-if-we-loose-the-Supreme-Court-it’s-all-over and If-we-just-elect-a-Republican-President-he’ll-appoint-judges-and-fix-everything and Nothing-else-matters-because-judges are tropes that people on the right propagate among themselves.

    But I think it’s akin to If-we-just-elect-more-Republicans-to-Congress-they-can-finally-do-conservative-things. It’s a sales technique Republican politicians trot out to get people to vote for terrible candidates. And you should know, you’re being lied to.

    Look how it worked: Republican Senate, Republican House, nominally Republican President and we still have Obamacare.

    There’s room for plenty of rotten (and unconstitutional) legislation if your yardstick is “It’s not the end of the Republic”.  Of course, the end of the republic is not likely to be a “Berlin Wall Falls” moment, but a gradual abrading of our rights until there are none left.  This will only be accelerated by having lousy Supreme Court justices.

    As for being lied to, I really appreciate you pointing that out.  It would have never occurred to me that a politician might lie or exaggerate.  (Really, Fred, do you have such a low opinion of the rest of us that you think this is breaking news?)

    And nearly 45 years of abortions now coming up on 60 million lives is a big deal.  It’s only a “running fire-fight” in the same sense that there was resistance in France after the Nazis took over.

    • #212
  3. Joe P Member
    Joe P
    @JoeP

    bridget (View Comment):

    I think I’m in love. Carry on.

    I’m taken. @sabrdance stole my heart.

    Was this related to that Boston meetup a while ago?

    • #213
  4. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Fred Cole (View Comment):
    But I think it’s akin to If-we-just-elect-more-Republicans-to-Congress-they-can-finally-do-conservative-things. It’s a sales technique Republican politicians trot out to get people to vote for terrible candidates. And you should know, you’re being lied to.

    Look how it worked: Republican Senate, Republican House, nominally Republican President and we still have Obamacare.

    Boy if that ain’t the damn truth….

    • #214
  5. Postmodern Hoplite Coolidge
    Postmodern Hoplite
    @PostmodernHoplite

    bridget (View Comment):
    To be quite literal, we could win every state legislative house, every state governorship, Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency, and still be unable to advance many conservative or libertarian ideals if the Court is 5-4 against us.

    Brava! Well said, indeed.

    Imbedded within @bridget‘s excellent statement is the knowledge that although every Supreme Court justice appointed by a Democratic president remains safely and consistently progressive, there are a number of examples of Republican appointees who “evolve” from liberal to progressive as they age. Can anyone name the last progressive justice who became more conservative over time?

    • #215
  6. bridget Inactive
    bridget
    @bridget

    Joe P (View Comment):

    bridget (View Comment):

    I think I’m in love. Carry on.

    I’m taken. @sabrdance stole my heart.

    Was this related to that Boston meetup a while ago?

    Thirteenth of March? That one?

    Yep.

    (I won’t ruin Umbra’s thread with the whole story – it’s been called “disgustingly cute.” )

    • #216
  7. TG Thatcher
    TG
    @TG

    bridget (View Comment):

    Joe P (View Comment):

    bridget (View Comment):

    I think I’m in love. Carry on.

    I’m taken. @sabrdance stole my heart.

    Was this related to that Boston meetup a while ago?

    Thirteenth of March? That one?

    Yep.

    (I won’t ruin Umbra’s thread with the whole story – it’s been called “disgustingly cute.” )

    but you will share the story sometime, right?  (please?  happy gossip by/about people we like is one of the great joys of life.)

    • #217
  8. James Golden Inactive
    James Golden
    @JGolden

    Postmodern Hoplite (View Comment):
    Can anyone name the last progressive justice who became more conservative over time?

    Off the top of my head, potentially Justice Hugo Black.

    • #218
  9. James Golden Inactive
    James Golden
    @JGolden

    James Golden (View Comment):

    Postmodern Hoplite (View Comment):
    Can anyone name the last progressive justice who became more conservative over time?

    Off the top of my head, potentially Justice Hugo Black.

    Maybe Byron White too (more recent than Black).

    • #219
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