A Hill to Die On

 

In response to Palestinian gunmen killing two Israeli cops at a shrine in Jerusalem, followed by the stabbing of three Israelis in an adjacent residential area, the Israelis installed metal detectors at the entrance to the shrine.

The guns used to kill the police had been smuggled into the mosque earlier, so this seems no more than a prudent response–if anything, too little, too late.

Oh, but now, the metal detectors themselves have occasioned both peaceful and violent protests and additional murders of Israelis as well as defensive killings of Palestinians. (This just in: Israeli family massacred as they sat down to Shabbat dinner.)

And the world debates whether the installation of the metal detectors was rashly provocative.

I had to dig to find out what “shrine” was involved here. Of course: the Temple Mount, the “farthest mosque.”

Muslims are not being excluded from the site. They are the only ones of the three Abrahamic faiths permitted to pray there–and, the only people absolutely denied entry are Jewish Israeli lawmakers.

No, it’s merely that everyone who seeks entry into the sacred precincts will have to pass a metal detector. (Y’know, so guns can’t be smuggled in any more and concealed to be retrieved later to kill cops and pilgrims). But this mild, life-preserving measure is seen by Palestinians and their co-religionists and their useful infidels as an aggressive, unconscionable attempt to “control” the Temple Mount.

Let’s review:

This area was the capital of the Jewish state from at least 1000 BCE. The “mount” is believed to have been the site of Solomon’s temple, and is the site of the Second Temple, built 6th century BCE, destroyed by the Romans in 70CE. The last independent kingdom to exist in the Jerusalem area was the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom. It is and always has been Judaism’s holiest site.

So then, Jesus arrives, has his bar mitzvah in the Temple, and precociously preaches there. As an adult, he wrathfully expels the merchants selling animals for the mandatory sacrifices, and the money changers whose services made it possible for Jewish pilgrims to change their money to the local currency so they could buy the unblemished animals.

Over 600 years later, Mohammed has a dream that he travels to “the farthest mosque.” now identified with Al Aqsa, from which, he dreams, he ascends to heaven on a human-headed steed.

After four centuries of a Muslim occupation, persecution of Christian pilgrims at last reached the excesses which goaded the church into supporting an only briefly successful attempt to establish Christendom’s control. Today, we find it a nice place to visit, but the Kingdom of God is internal.

So:

(A) The Jewish Temple was a real, historical structure, built 1000 BCE or at least indisputably re-built about 586 BCE. It was actually standing during Jesus’ life and until about 70 CE.

(B) There was no mosque in Jerusalem during Mohammed’s lifetime. He dies 632; Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 690.

(C) a dream is not a real historical event.

So, by any measure: I respectfully submit it is the Jews who have the superior claim to “control” the Temple Mount. (Honorable mention: Christians.)

Being deferential, respectful, and self-effacing about it (as when Dayan handed the keys to the mosque back to the Grand Mufti in 1967) is only going to get more Jews killed. (But–what else is new? )

Mr. Netanyahu: Take back this hill!!

(Update: Turn on your TV. Palestinians are storming the Temple Mount, trashing the immediate area. Yet somehow, the news coverage would give you the impression that it’s because Israel has taken something away from them, instead of merely trying to make the area safer. I hear Jared Kushner has been dispatched to promote “calm.” Now we’ll find out what kinda person he is–cuz I know some who would do anything rather than take their own side.)

There are 52 comments.

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  1. outlaws6688 Member
    outlaws6688
    @outlaws6688

    Useful Infidels. Seems to be a lot of that going around.

    • #1
  2. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    I do not think that Prime Minister Netanyahu wants to take over the Temple Mount.

    If he did, he would have a much higher chance of a real shooting war with several Arab neighbors.  And domestically he would have to deal with a bunch of Jews who wanted to build a new Temple.

    • #2
  3. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Hypatia,

    Thank you. This is my view; just in much better words than I’d be able to find to express it.

    • #3
  4. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Weren’t Hashemites Arabs? According to myth, weren’t they the descendants of Ishmael?

    • #4
  5. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Weren’t Hashemites Arabs? According to myth, weren’t they the descendants of Ishmael?

    Thanks, I meant “Hasmonean” and have edited.

    • #5
  6. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Hypatia: (A) the Jewish Temple was a real, historical structure, built 1000 BCE or at least indisputably re-built about 586 BCE. It was actually standing during Jesus’ life and until about 70 CE.

    A great deal of it is still standing! Just not above ground.

    • #6
  7. JcTPatriot Member
    JcTPatriot
    @JcTPatriot

    This one of the best posts about the area I have ever seen on a blog, anywhere. Thank you so much for this very sobering information, Hypatia.

    • #7
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    It’s so infuriating. The Muslim population thinks they can invent a history and have the world accept it. For the most part, the world sides with them or simply doesn’t want to get involved. This nonsense about the metal detectors is just another attempt to cause trouble. And I fear, more people will die. Thanks, Hypatia, for posting this.

    • #8
  9. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):
    It’s so infuriating. The Muslim population thinks they can invent a history and have the world accept it. For the most part, the world sides with them or simply doesn’t want to get involved. This nonsense about the metal detectors is just another attempt to cause trouble. And I fear, more people will die. Thanks, Hypatia, for posting this.

    I can understand  people who want to just disregard any religious claims to the area. God’s  promise to Abraham, Jesus’ purification of the Temple, Mohammed’s dream–all just a buncha fairy tales.

    But if you are going to take religion into account, why would you disregard the strongest , oldest claim in religious terms, to favor the most recent?

    And  if you feel we should only consider historical claims, the Jews have the strongest position there, too.

    So in my humble opinion, there is only one reason people do not see it this way:

    Jew-hatred.

    And  I

    hate

    that. 

    • #9
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    So in my humble opinion, there is only one reason people do not see it this way:

    Jew-hatred.

    I’m not a person to see anti-Semitism everywhere I look. But this dispute, with the unwillingness for people to look at the facts, is deeply discouraging.

    • #10
  11. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Reminded in part by this post, I wrote on my personal experience last month at the Temple Mount.

    • #11
  12. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    iWe (View Comment):
    Reminded in part by this post, I wrote on my personal experience last month at the Temple Mount.

    Just read your post, iWe!

    Oh my God–

    I mean oh our God–

    if  it is permitted,

    let this Gentile’s tears join yours in God’s flask…..

    • #12
  13. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Can’t remember where I heard this (Catholic media?), but I believe Mohammed’s supposed dream was “revealed” well after his death and the mosque built during one of Islam’s (perpetual) conflicts with the West so as to get a foothold in the Holy Land. A Muslim act of aggression. Surprise, surprise.

    The West is so suicidal, it’s chosen death by jihad. As Douglas Murray (author of The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam) said on Prager’s show, the only blasphemy that will get you killed in the West is blasphemy against Islam.

    I hope to live long enough to see western men find their …. courage and common sense to drive these barbarians back under the rock from which they came.

    • #13
  14. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Hypatia,

    This is an opportunity. They smuggled weapons into their Mosque. They murdered Israeli policemen. They have reacted insanely to the obvious security measures of metal detectors and cameras. Let them. Let them be barred from the Temple Mount.

    They violently occupied the Temple Mount 1400 years ago. They are the occupiers. They have prevented Jews from praying on the Mount. Let this be the end to it. The Israeli government must keep the metal detectors and cameras. If they comply with these rational security measures they can have access to their Mosque. If they do not comply they won’t be allowed onto the Mount.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #14
  15. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Hypatia: And the world debates whether the installation of the metal detectors was rashly provocative.

    Did the world give a rat’s patoot when we are forced to just about strip to our underwear thanks to Muslim terrorists?

    Or that we need bollards all over the landscape?

    Act like barbarians, get treated that way.

    • #15
  16. JcTPatriot Member
    JcTPatriot
    @JcTPatriot

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    I hope to live long enough to see western men find their …. courage and common sense to drive these barbarians back under the rock from which they came.

    Have you heard the folks on Ricochet defending Islam? Even the Right Wing has fallen into the trap. This time, Islam knows what they are doing. Make the world hate people who stand against Islam – if it wasn’t so frightening, I would applaud its genius. They are getting laws passed in countries all over the world that put people in prison for speaking out against the Islamic System.

    Sorry, WC, but it’s already over. Western men will never “find their courage” and defeat this enemy of the Earth. Africa is gone. Malaysia, Indonesia, gone. A huge portion of Asia, gone. The entire Middle-East, gone. Europe and Canada are going, currently passing laws protecting them. America next?

    Non-Muslim Minneapolis mayor Betsy Hodges wearing a hijab, so she will not get ousted in the next election, or worse:

    • #16
  17. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @TrinityWaters

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    So in my humble opinion, there is only one reason people do not see it this way:

    Jew-hatred.

    I’m not a person to see anti-Semitism everywhere I look. But this dispute, with the unwillingness for people to look at the facts, is deeply discouraging.

    Be more direct, Susan.  There is a chasm between discouragement and justified anger?

    • #17
  18. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @TrinityWaters

    JcTPatriot (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    I hope to live long enough to see western men find their …. courage and common sense to drive these barbarians back under the rock from which they came.

    Have you heard the folks on Ricochet defending Islam? Even the Right Wing has fallen into the trap. This time, Islam knows what they are doing. Make the world hate people who stand against Islam – if it wasn’t so frightening, I would applaud its genius. They are getting laws passed in countries all over the world that put people in prison for speaking out against the Islamic System.

    Sorry, WC, but it’s already over. Western men will never “find their courage” and defeat this enemy of the Earth. Africa is gone. Malaysia, Indonesia, gone. A huge portion of Asia, gone. The entire Middle-East, gone. Europe and Canada are going, currently passing laws protecting them. America next?

    Non-Muslim Minneapolis mayor Betsy Hodges wearing a hijab, so she will not get ousted in the next election, or worse:

    Lileks?

    • #18
  19. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    I admit there are places in the US like Minneapolis that are fearful enough to cower. But Poland, the United States and Israel will never go over to Islam.

    • #19
  20. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    So three days ago the Daily Wire had this headline and story.

    After 2,000 Years, Something Unbelievable Happened In Jerusalem

    On Wednesday, something extraordinary happened in Jerusalem: for the first time in millennia, Jews were allowed to actually pray on the Temple Mount, the site where the ancient Temples of Israel stood.

    Which directly contradicts this statement,

    Hypatia: Muslims are not being excluded from the site. They are the only ones of the three Abrahamic faiths permitted to pray there

    So my question is, which is true?

    If the first statement is true, why was the news not shouted from the rooftops?

     

    • #20
  21. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Instugator (View Comment):
    So three days ago the Daily Wire had this headline and story.

    After 2,000 Years, Something Unbelievable Happened In Jerusalem

    On Wednesday, something extraordinary happened in Jerusalem: for the first time in millennia, Jews were allowed to actually pray on the Temple Mount, the site where the ancient Temples of Israel stood.

    Which directly contradicts this statement,

    Hypatia: Muslims are not being excluded from the site. They are the only ones of the three Abrahamic faiths permitted to pray there

    So my question is, which is true?

    If the first statement is true, why was the news not shouted from the rooftops?

    If you read the story, the prayers by both Christians and Jews on the Mount were technically against the law.

    Time to make the Muslims share, or be excluded….

    • #21
  22. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Kozak (View Comment):
    If you read the story, the prayers by both Christians and Jews on the Mount were technically against the law.

    So the story was untrue – since people have prayed there before.

    Thanks.

    • #22
  23. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    Instugator (View Comment):
    So three days ago the Daily Wire had this headline and story.

    After 2,000 Years, Something Unbelievable Happened In Jerusalem

    On Wednesday, something extraordinary happened in Jerusalem: for the first time in millennia, Jews were allowed to actually pray on the Temple Mount, the site where the ancient Temples of Israel stood.

    Which directly contradicts this statement,

    Hypatia: Muslims are not being excluded from the site. They are the only ones of the three Abrahamic faiths permitted to pray there

    So my question is, which is true?

    If the first statement is true, why was the news not shouted from the rooftops?

    It dies not contradict my statement.  The policy has been that Jews were not allowed to pray there.  That’s why you always see them praying at the Wailing Wall.

    But since this incident, Muslim leaders have told the faithful that their prayers will not be heard by Allah if they go through the metal detectors.  So they’re staying out!

    Sofor the first time, Jews  can pray there without harassment.  Many in Israel think this should be the new status quo.  And I do too, for the reasons stated in this post.

    And some are shouting it from the rooftops. I read a great column by Ariel Sharon’s son.

    • #23
  24. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    James Gawron (View Comment):
    Hypatia,

    This is an opportunity. They smuggled weapons into their Mosque. They murdered Israeli policemen. They have reacted insanely to the obvious security measures of metal detectors and cameras. Let them. Let them be barred from the Temple Mount.

    They violently occupied the Temple Mount 1400 years ago. They are the occupiers. They have prevented Jews from praying on the Mount. Let this be the end to it. The Israeli government must keep the metal detectors and cameras. If they comply with these rational security measures they can have access to their Mosque. If they do not comply they won’t be allowed onto the Mount.

    Regards,

    Jim

    This is definitely what should happen.  But it probably won’t.  The Israeli govt will probably relent and remove the metal detectors,  because the Palestinians are infantile. Their leaders told them to swarm the Temple Mount and they did, and they’ll continue to riot until Israel, the grownup, makes some concessions. And meanwhile the longer their tantrum  goes on–the more the world blames Israel!!

    Dayan made a big mistake in 1967, returning control of the Temple Mount to the Waqf.  What did he think would happen? He didn’t have to guess: Jordan had been occupying the West Bank since 1948, and during those 19 years had destroyed and desecrated Jewish shrines, synagogues, and graves.  They Islamicised the area. That was their explicit goal–did he think the Muslim authorities would abandon it in gratitude for his magnanimity?

    Israel has essentially allowed the Waqf to operate a “state within a state” by letting it control the Temple Mount.  It is time, and more than time, to do the logical thing: Israel should take control, make the area as secure as possible, and allow pilgrims of all 3 faiths to pray and worship at this site.

    But the reaction of the world is like people who witness a toddler throwing a tantrum.  Nobody likes to see and hear that! And, as the infant shrieks louder and louder and grows red in the face, everybody begins blaming the adult caretakers .

    Just give the little monster whatever it wants–anything to shut it up!

    I hope I’m wrong –but check back in a few days,  I’m afraid Israel will have resorted to the pacifier …..

    • #24
  25. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    It dies not contradict my statement. The policy has been that Jews were not allowed to pray there.

    You said that only Muslims are allowed to pray there.

    The Daily Wire said that Jews were allowed to pray there (for the first time in 2000 years – which I suspect is hyperbole, but I do not know).

    Therefore either you or the Daily Wire are in error. I was just asking which.

    So you are telling me the Daily Wire is incorrect.

    • #25
  26. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    It dies not contradict my statement. The policy has been that Jews were not allowed to pray there.

    You said that only Muslims are allowed to pray there.

    The Daily Wire said that Jews were allowed to pray there (for the first time in 2000 years – which I suspect is hyperbole, but I do not know).

    Therefore either you or the Daily Wire are in error. I was just asking which.

    So you are telling me the Daily Wire is incorrect.

    You arent getting it.  Jews have taken the opportunity to,pray there now, this week,  because Muslims, due to this incident, are staying out.  It has been the policy of Israel since they took over the area after war which ended the Jordanian occupation in 1967 ( after Juorda’s Islamicization  of the area; see my comment # 24)  to let Muslims pray there, while  Jews and Christians can visit but not pray, sing, etc.

    2000 years? I guess the DW reports that cuz, as the world knows, the Temple was destroyed by Rome in about 70 CE.  Rome built a pagan temple there, Aolea Capitolina. The mount has also been the site of a Byzantine church; then the Muslim Conquerors built the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa. Jews were not in control of the area again till 1967.  When the state of Israel was created in 1948, Jordan was occupying the area including the Temple Mount. THey did not allow Jews there, in fact they expelled Jews from Jerusalem entire.  Israel got it back in 1967 and Dayan, magnanimously but foolishly in my opinion, gave the keys to the mosque back to the Waqf.  And the,policy of the Israeli govt has been that Jews can’t pray there.

    I dont know what you think you are getting at, but if you look up the history of the area, you will see that there is no conflict between what the Daily Wire said and what I said.  Jews havent prayed freely there since Jesus’ lifetime.   I’m not going to spend any more time with this.

    • #26
  27. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Trinity Waters (View Comment):
    Be more direct, Susan. There is a chasm between discouragement and justified anger?

    Discouragement is resigning oneself to what is. Justified anger is acknowledging evil and speaking out against it.

    • #27
  28. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    You arent getting it. Jews have taken the opportunity to,pray there now, this week,  because Muslims, due to this incident, are staying out.

    I understand that part, but you kept using the present tense for both statements and it is confusing.

    When I read the statements it seems like there is a policy change beyond the installation of metal detectors for Muslims and I am seeking clarity.

    Sorry if you find that offensive.

     

    • #28
  29. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    Israel should take control, make the area as secure as possible, and allow pilgrims of all 3 faiths to pray and worship at this site.

    I do not believe Muslims have a legitimate claim to the Temple Mount as a holy site. Their claim has always been one of political/cultural aggression. I’m not sure how much worse their behavior would be if they were excluded from “praying” and “worshiping” there, but I’m pretty sure Jews and Christians would find it liberating. It’s not like we’re threatening asking to nuke worship the Kaaba*.

    *Which, btw, looks like a vulva. Is that intentional? I mean, wth? I just googled and got an image of it. The more I learn about Islam, the less I wish I knew…

    • #29
  30. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @Hypatia

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    Israel should take control, make the area as secure as possible, and allow pilgrims of all 3 faiths to pray and worship at this site.

    I do not believe Muslims have a legitimate claim to the Temple Mount as a holy site. Their claim has always been one of political/cultural aggression. I’m not sure how much worse their behavior would be if they were excluded from “praying” and “worshiping” there, but I’m pretty sure Jews and Christians would find it liberating. It’s not like we’re threatening asking to nuke worship the Kaaba*.

    *Which, btw, looks like a vulva. Is that intentional? I mean, wth? I just googled and got an image of it. The more I learn about Islam, the less I wish I knew…

    The Quaaba s believed to be the site where Ishmael was saved by the miraculous stream, I think…or once I heard it was where Abe re-encountered Ishmael–either way, since this relates to the Jewish Patriarch–

    how would it be if Jews started demanding to pray  there?   Can you imagine?  (No don’t try; it would be a bloodbath even by Muslim standards and that’s saying a lot)

    I agree, and it was kinda the point of my post, that Islam has no real connection with Jerusalem.  Pilgrimages to Mecca were interrupted some time after Mohammed’s death; some Caliph or other then invented the idea that the “farthest mosque” was Jerusalem.

    But hey, all religions have their inconsistencies, their obvious historical inventions–I don’t care if Muslims pray on the Temple Mount–

    do care that Jews and Christians are not allowed to do so (until this point in time, when Muslims have decided to camp outside and hold their breaths till the horrible indignity of he metal detectors is removed.)

    • #30

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