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  1. Profile photo of Judithann Campbell Member

    Prayers for the family; there are no words.

    • #1
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:03 pm
    • Like16 likes
  2. Profile photo of Valiuth Member

    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    • #2
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:06 pm
    • Like8 likes
  3. Profile photo of Brian Watt Thatcher

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    Doctors in the US said they could find no trace of botulism. They related that his brain was deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time to result in the loss of a substantial amount of brain tissue.

    This is essentially the slow, drawn out murder of an American by a lawless foreign government.

    • #3
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:11 pm
    • Like17 likes
  4. Profile photo of Scott Wilmot Member

    Prayers for him and his family – may he rest in peace.

    And may the North Korean butchers receive their just judgment.

    • #4
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:11 pm
    • Like10 likes
  5. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    I’ve been trying to follow this and it seems a medical mystery – at least on public reports. I’ve read repeatedly that doctors haven’t found signs of abuse and that his injuries are consistent with some kind of cardiopulmonary event. I understand the instinct to blame the North Koreans. And certainly he should never have been detained there to begin with. But do we know whether they actually killed him? As opposed to some freak and unfortunate medical problem that just happened to occur while he was being held captive?

    • #5
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:13 pm
    • LikeLike
  6. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    [Deleted. Duplicate comment.]

    • #6
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:14 pm
    • LikeLike
  7. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    That was the North Korean story. Doctors treating him in Cincinnati have stated that it is not true. But I have the same question you do. What did do it?

    • #7
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:15 pm
    • Like1 like
  8. Profile photo of Valiuth Member

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    Doctors in the US said they could find no trace of botulism. They related that his brain was deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time to result in the loss of a substantial amount of brain tissue.

    This is essentially the slow, drawn out murder of an American by a lawless foreign government.

    Brain deprived of Oxygen? I wonder if the family will perform an autopsy to try to more accurately determine the cause of death. I agree though this is murder, but this poor man is hardly the first and maybe not even the most cruelly treated subject of their depravity.

    Nothing short of obliteration can be a sufficient enough punishment or remedy for this regime, yet to undertake this is to costly and risky at task at the present moment.

    Blame and restitution for this act should be laid at the feet of North Korea’s only ally and benefactor The People’s Republic of China.

    • #8
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:23 pm
    • Like8 likes
  9. Profile photo of Doug Watt Member

    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    • #9
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:28 pm
    • Like15 likes
  10. Profile photo of Valiuth Member

    Cato Rand (View Comment):
    I’ve been trying to follow this and it seems a medical mystery – at least on public reports. I’ve read repeatedly that doctors haven’t found signs of abuse and that his injuries are consistent with some kind of cardiopulmonary event. I understand the instinct to blame the North Koreans. And certainly he should never have been detained there to begin with. But do we know whether they actually killed him? As opposed to some freak and unfortunate medical problem that just happened to occur while he was being held captive?

    I guess bad luck can not be ruled out. Still, I think an autopsy might be more diagnostic. Perhaps our doctor members can enlighten us. But it is possible to starve someone of oxygen without leaving obvious injuries like strangulation marks. If they had for instance drowned him as part of water boarding that would lead to oxygen starvation. Would any water be left in the lungs as proof of this after so many days? Does such an event leave scar tissue?

    • #10
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:30 pm
    • Like1 like
  11. Profile photo of Valiuth Member

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    Punishing North Korea does not work, what more can you do to them that they do not do to themselves. The leadership is immune and the people are powerless and expendable. All misbehavior by North Korea should be paid for by China.

    • #11
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:32 pm
    • Like5 likes
  12. Profile photo of Brian Watt Thatcher

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    Punishing North Korea does not work, what more can you do to them that they do not do to themselves. The leadership is immune and the people are powerless and expendable. All misbehavior by North Korea should be paid for by China.

    Maybe it’s time to test that notion. The stated policy of the United States for North Korea is regime change and has been for years. The Korean War never really ended. Maybe it’s time to end it.

    • #12
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:37 pm
    • Like4 likes
  13. Profile photo of Jamie Lockett Reagan

    Bloody monsters.

    • #13
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:40 pm
    • Like2 likes
  14. Profile photo of Jamie Lockett Reagan

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    What would the the point of this? To protect people from themselves? No thanks.

    • #14
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:42 pm
    • Like1 like
  15. Profile photo of Doug Watt Member

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    What would the the point of this? To protect people from themselves? No thanks.

    Jamie I think the point is that what right does an American citizen have to engage in useful idiot tourism. Whether it is hiking the border of Afghanistan and Iran, or slipping into North Korea by way of China to visit North Korea. Endless negotiations with a third party nation, Sweden in the case of North Korea, and being put in a position of possible concessions.

    Unfortunately there are some people in this world that need killing, we are so willing to kill the innocent with abortion and euthanasia, but cannot bring ourselves to kill the guilty. We seem to be very confused.

    • #15
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:51 pm
    • Like4 likes
  16. Profile photo of Jamie Lockett Reagan

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    What would the the point of this? To protect people from themselves? No thanks.

    Jamie I think the point is that what right does an American citizen have to engage in useful idiot tourism. Whether it is hiking the border of Afghanistan and Iran, or slipping into North Korea by way of China to visit North Korea. Endless negotiations with a third party nation, Sweden in the case of North Korea, and being put in a position of possible concessions.

    Unfortunately there are some people in this world that need killing, we are so willing to kill the innocent with abortion and euthanasia, but cannot bring ourselves to kill the guilty. We seem to be very confused.

    Uh they’re an American? That’s their right. Now I also think we should leave them to sink or swim based on their own choices.

    • #16
    • June 19, 2017 at 2:58 pm
    • Like5 likes
  17. Profile photo of Doug Watt Member

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Is it time to put pressure on our own citizens not to travel to North Korea? Perhaps informing US citizens if they travel to North Korea that upon their return to the US their passport will be revoked for a 10 year period. Make a decision, Do I want to see Pyongyang now and wait another 10 years before I can go to Paris, Canada, Mexico, or even go on a cruise.

    It is time for Secretary Tillerson to have a private meeting with the Chinese, not on Twitter, to inform the Chinese that if Japan makes the decision to go nuclear then the United States will assist the Japanese government, unless the next bad haircut that Kim Jong Un gets is from the shoulders on up to the top of his head.

    What would the the point of this? To protect people from themselves? No thanks.

    Jamie I think the point is that what right does an American citizen have to engage in useful idiot tourism. Whether it is hiking the border of Afghanistan and Iran, or slipping into North Korea by way of China to visit North Korea. Endless negotiations with a third party nation, Sweden in the case of North Korea, and being put in a position of possible concessions.

    Unfortunately there are some people in this world that need killing, we are so willing to kill the innocent with abortion and euthanasia, but cannot bring ourselves to kill the guilty. We seem to be very confused.

    Uh they’re an American? That’s their right. Now I also think we should leave them to sink or swim based on their own choices.

    That shouldn’t mean the guilty go unpunished.

    • #17
    • June 19, 2017 at 3:03 pm
    • Like2 likes
  18. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):
    I’ve been trying to follow this and it seems a medical mystery – at least on public reports. I’ve read repeatedly that doctors haven’t found signs of abuse and that his injuries are consistent with some kind of cardiopulmonary event. I understand the instinct to blame the North Koreans. And certainly he should never have been detained there to begin with. But do we know whether they actually killed him? As opposed to some freak and unfortunate medical problem that just happened to occur while he was being held captive?

    I guess bad luck can not be ruled out. Still, I think an autopsy might be more diagnostic. Perhaps our doctor members can enlighten us. But it is possible to starve someone of oxygen without leaving obvious injuries like strangulation marks. If they had for instance drowned him as part of water boarding that would lead to oxygen starvation. Would any water be left in the lungs as proof of this after so many days? Does such an event leave scar tissue?

    I’m thinking of something like water boarding, or even suffocation with something like cellophane. But from the vague info I’ve read I’m also wondering about something like a naturally occurring stroke. Rare at his age, but not impossible. Probably many other possibilities too, most, but not all, a function of malevolent NoKo mistreatment. I do hope an autopsy is done and more definitive information is released, although if the family chooses differently, I respect their decision.

    • #18
    • June 19, 2017 at 3:06 pm
    • LikeLike
  19. Profile photo of Front Seat Cat Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    Doctors in the US said they could find no trace of botulism. They related that his brain was deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time to result in the loss of a substantial amount of brain tissue.

    This is essentially the slow, drawn out murder of an American by a lawless foreign government.

    Brain deprived of Oxygen? I wonder if the family will perform an autopsy to try to more accurately determine the cause of death. I agree though this is murder, but this poor man is hardly the first and maybe not even the most cruelly treated subject of their depravity.

    Nothing short of obliteration can be a sufficient enough punishment or remedy for this regime, yet to undertake this is to costly and risky at task at the present moment.

    Blame and restitution for this act should be laid at the feet of North Korea’s only ally and benefactor The People’s Republic of China.

    Do we know what he was doing in North Korea?

    • #19
    • June 19, 2017 at 3:14 pm
    • LikeLike
  20. Profile photo of Valiuth Member

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    Doctors in the US said they could find no trace of botulism. They related that his brain was deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time to result in the loss of a substantial amount of brain tissue.

    This is essentially the slow, drawn out murder of an American by a lawless foreign government.

    Brain deprived of Oxygen? I wonder if the family will perform an autopsy to try to more accurately determine the cause of death. I agree though this is murder, but this poor man is hardly the first and maybe not even the most cruelly treated subject of their depravity.

    Nothing short of obliteration can be a sufficient enough punishment or remedy for this regime, yet to undertake this is to costly and risky at task at the present moment.

    Blame and restitution for this act should be laid at the feet of North Korea’s only ally and benefactor The People’s Republic of China.

    Do we know what he was doing in North Korea?

    I believe he was on vacation.

    • #20
    • June 19, 2017 at 3:34 pm
    • Like1 like
  21. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    A sad end to a sad tale. Do we know the cause of death and how he came to be in this state? I heard he was suffering from botulinum toxin? Has that been confirmed?

    Either way this is just another drop in the endless stream of human misery created by that hellish regime.

    Doctors in the US said they could find no trace of botulism. They related that his brain was deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time to result in the loss of a substantial amount of brain tissue.

    This is essentially the slow, drawn out murder of an American by a lawless foreign government.

    Brain deprived of Oxygen? I wonder if the family will perform an autopsy to try to more accurately determine the cause of death. I agree though this is murder, but this poor man is hardly the first and maybe not even the most cruelly treated subject of their depravity.

    Nothing short of obliteration can be a sufficient enough punishment or remedy for this regime, yet to undertake this is to costly and risky at task at the present moment.

    Blame and restitution for this act should be laid at the feet of North Korea’s only ally and benefactor The People’s Republic of China.

    Do we know what he was doing in North Korea?

    I believe he was on vacation.

    Yes, he was more or less on a lark. Traveling in China he saw an advertisement for tours to NoKo and decided to take one. Probably just a terribly (if normally) naive kid who didn’t realize how dangerous the world is.

    • #21
    • June 19, 2017 at 3:41 pm
    • Like8 likes
  22. Profile photo of jzdro Member

    Could someone here provide a succinct review of how North Korea obtained nuclear weapons? So apt, it is painful. I’d be very appreciative.

    Quis?

    Quid?

    Ubi?

    Quibus auxiliis?

    Cur?

    Quomodo?

    Quando?

    Fox, “old Gross’s rhyme”:

    What was the crime, who did it, when was it done, and where?

    How done, and with what motive, who in the deed did share?

    • #22
    • June 19, 2017 at 5:43 pm
    • Like1 like
  23. Profile photo of Jules PA Member

    Peace and comfort to his family.

    And peace and freedom to the people of North Korea, many who also suffer or die every day by the hand of this insane nation.

    • #23
    • June 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
    • Like1 like
  24. Profile photo of Doctor Robert Member

    NoKo makes no secret of their desire to hurt America and Americans. They will do so. They have nukes and they are building missiles.

    End this now. We’re still at war with NoKo. Two hostile measures can be instituted almost instantly to solve the NoKo problem without using troops on the ground and without involving SoKo..

    1. Freeze their cash. Any nation that continues to trade with NoKo after July 1 loses ambassadorial status in the US.
    2. Blockade their harbors. Announce this to the world. Station a submarine just outside of their international waters at Pyongyang, Wonsan, Sinuiju. The first Swedish or Chinese or Iranian ship to try to pass the blockade tastes 40 fathoms of seawater. Also the next one. There will be no third attempt.

    Two weeks of this and FatBoy is dogmeat, courtesy of his generals.

    Four weeks of this and the generals will willingly shut down their nukes program. Problem solved.

    But we have to start it.

    • #24
    • June 19, 2017 at 7:18 pm
    • Like5 likes
  25. Profile photo of I Walton Member

    We told the Chinese either they bring NK to heal or we would. So we have to and this incident means we have to have another go at the Chinese, then do something to harm the leadership. The issues are missiles and nukes, not the brutality of the regime we’ve again just witnessed.

    • #25
    • June 20, 2017 at 5:07 am
    • LikeLike
  26. Profile photo of Penfold Member

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):
    Blockade their harbors. Announce this to the world. Station a submarine just outside of their international waters at Pyongyang, Wonsan, Sinuiju. The first Swedish or Chinese or Iranian ship to try to pass the blockade tastes 40 fathoms of seawater. Also the next one. There will be no third attempt

    I’m always up for American action, if we’re willing to accept the price. If you don’t think the Chinese, Iraninans or even the Swedes won’t retaliate in some way to a sinking of their ships, think again. If we’re willing to accept the consequences, have at it. But remember that sinking ships seems to have been a strong rallying cry over the past 100+ years.

    • #26
    • June 20, 2017 at 5:16 am
    • Like1 like
  27. Profile photo of Hypatia Member

    Did anybody else hear this about Warmbier (can’t remember where I read it):

    that a friend of his mother’s wanted a North Korean poster for her church. That this church offered Otto a used car worth 10K if he successfully brought it back . That this church promised Otto that, if he didn’t make it back, it would make a 200K “charitable donation” to his mom. He agreed because the family was in financial difficulties.

    None of this alleviates the obvious fact that Warmbier was tortured to death by the Norks. I think it’s likely he may have been used as a subject for experimentation. It is, simply, not that hard to keep a young man healthy in prison.(Sadly, our country is doing it with millions of ’em!)

    But if the foregoing is true, I would like to know more about this “church”, at the very least. Did Otto’s mom get the 200K?

    • #27
    • June 20, 2017 at 6:49 am
    • LikeLike
  28. Profile photo of Cato Rand Member

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    Did anybody else hear this about Warmbier (can’t remember where I read it):

    that a friend of his mother’s wanted a North Korean poster for her church. That this church offered Otto a used car worth 10K if he successfully brought it back . That this church promised Otto that, if he didn’t make it back, it would make a 200K “charitable donation” to his mom. He agreed because the family was in financial difficulties.

    None of this alleviates the obvious fact that Warmbier was tortured to death by the Norks. I think it’s likely he may have been used as a subject for experimentation. It is, simply, not that hard to keep a young man healthy in prison.(Sadly, our country is doing it with millions of ’em!)

    But if the foregoing is true, I would like to know more about this “church”, at the very least. Did Otto’s mom get the 200K?

    I read that. Not sure where the story came from, but his father called in complete nonsense. It sounds a little out there to begin with so I’m inclined to think he’s right.

    • #28
    • June 20, 2017 at 7:28 am
    • Like1 like
  29. Profile photo of Doug Watt Member

    Apparently the statement about the Church was made in Mr. Warmbier’s pre-trial press conference. A press conference that is definitely a throwback to a staged show-trial confession made famous by the Soviet Union, as well as China.

    Americans should remember you will see and hear what the North Koreans want you to see and hear. Mr. Warmbier will only say what the North Koreans want him to say, nothing more.

    The story of stealing the poster at the request of a Church member with a proviso that his parents would receive a $200,000 settlement if he was caught and imprisoned seems not only improbable, but laughable. You can buy them on ebay all day long for a lot less than $10,000. Amazon lists them, as well as some poster shops.

    Mr. Warmbier may have said that in the press conference, but I’m willing to bet that he would have said anything that the North Koreans dreamed up for publicity and propaganda purposes.

    • #29
    • June 20, 2017 at 9:01 am
    • Like3 likes
  30. Profile photo of Arizona Patriot Member

    There is a detailed account of Otto Warmbier’s arrest, conviction, and confession at Wikipedia here.

    The church story, discussed by Hypatia above, was apparently part of his confession. The confession comes across as dubious to me, as it also says that he was motivated by a desire to join some UVA semi-secret society, and was manipulated into stealing the poster by the US administration.

    On the other hand, this does not prove that Mr. Warmbier did not steal a propaganda poster, perhaps only as a juvenile prank. It does seem odd that the North Koreans would randomly snatch a single US college student in a group of ten. So perhaps he did the crime, with no expectation that that he would have to do any time.

    I’m reminded of the Star Trek:TNG episode in which Wesley Crusher is sentenced to death for accidentally trampling some flowers while playing catch.

    • #30
    • June 20, 2017 at 9:45 am
    • Like1 like
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