This Is What We Should Not Do

 

This is an example of what I don’t want.

Protesters disrupted a Shakespeare production in Central Park on Friday night shouting, “The blood of Steve Scalise is on your hands!” and “Stop leftist violence,” according to reports.

A woman identifying herself on social media as Laura Loomer jumped on stage shouting, “Stop the normalization of political violence against the right,” and, “This is violence against Donald Trump.”

Fellow protestor Jack Posobiec, who taped her from the audience, then shouted, “You are all Goebbles,” referring to Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels.

Loomer was arrested following the incident when she refused to leave the scene, The New York Times reported. She posted video of her protest on Twitter.

We on the right should not be breaking the law in order to shut down what we consider to be offensive speech. That’s the left’s shtick. We need to be respecting the right of free expression, even when it offends us — and then using that right to push back against the left.

Rather than trying to shut down the juvenile assassination-porn the left enjoys, let’s say some things that we believe, but that we know offend the left.

In my case, that means saying things like “the trans movement is nonsense, an unhealthy pandering to emotionally challenged individuals who need counseling, not surgery.” Or “men and women are different, and feminism has tried to fool women into believing that that isn’t true, depriving them of their uniqueness in its efforts to persuade them to be ersatz males, men-lite.” Or “the Black Lives Matter movement is ugly racism founded on a lie about the nature of anti-black violence in America, directing attention away from the real crisis of violence in the black community by scapegoating police instead of acknowledging the disintegration of the black family.” Or “same-sex marriage is legal, but it isn’t normal and it isn’t ideal. Children benefit from having good role models of, and the support from, both a father and a mother.” Or “the Russia story is a nothingburger, a desperate effort to deprive the people of the choice they made in a fair election because that choice offends the leftist establishment.”

Etc.

Don’t suppress speech. Use it.

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  1. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    Henry’s posts have nearly made me shed tears in anger and frustration at the shackles he insists on imposing on people who share most of his positions.

    Figurative nonsense. I’m not trying to impose shackles on anyone. I’m asking people on the right to not descend into the same lawlessness and vulgarity as the people we oppose. I’m asking people on the right to not pretend that words are daggers, and that a vulgar play that offends me should be shut down by lawless misbehavior of a fellow conservative.

    Above all, I’m saying that we must insist that the law be upheld — even when the smugly self-righteous thugs on the left think they’re taking the high ground by breaking it. And we can’t do that if we’re busy breaking it ourselves and with the same justification.

    This is what the right has been doing for my entire life.  History has shown that it doesn’t work.  Why do you think it’ll work, now?

    • #31
  2. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    This idea of staying civil even when the left isn’t really isn’t very complicated.

    Look, most people are somewhere in the middle, disinclined to make a scene or shout anyone down. They’re observers, watching the outspoken people on both sides make their cases. (That’s true here, on social media, and in real life.)

    So, if you’re one of that big majority in the middle of the bell curve, what are you going to find more persuasive? Two sides screaming at each other and breaking things? Or one side screaming and breaking, and the other remaining firm, calm, and serious?

    If you think it’s the former, you’re mistaken.

    The majority in the middle can care less about your measured response. They have been hearing it for years and it is now part of the static. I have tried a lifetime of arguing that way and all I have gotten from it is a series of lost gigs as the libs purged me from the field. Now I hide, keep my head down and hope it holds together while I live. If some with younger, hotter bloods want to storm the barricades I will support them, though I know they are destined to fail. Their conservative allies will tear them down quicker than their Leftist opponents will.

    Boy ain’t that the damned truth. No one hits back harder when a “Conservative” starts attacking the Left than other “Conservatives.” Just ask the Tea Party who their biggest enemy was and who wanted to “bloody their nose.”

    • #32
  3. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    This idea of staying civil even when the left isn’t really isn’t very complicated.

    Look, most people are somewhere in the middle, disinclined to make a scene or shout anyone down. They’re observers, watching the outspoken people on both sides make their cases. (That’s true here, on social media, and in real life.)

    So, if you’re one of that big majority in the middle of the bell curve, what are you going to find more persuasive? Two sides screaming at each other and breaking things? Or one side screaming and breaking, and the other remaining firm, calm, and serious?

    If you think it’s the former, you’re mistaken.

    The majority in the middle can care less about your measured response. They have been hearing it for years and it is now part of the static. I have tried a lifetime of arguing that way and all I have gotten from it is a series of lost gigs as the libs purged me from the field. Now I hide, keep my head down and hope it holds together while I live. If some with younger, hotter bloods want to storm the barricades I will support them, though I know they are destined to fail. Their conservative allies will tear them down quicker than their Leftist opponents will.

    As I said, most people are in the middle of the bell curve. There’s nothing shameful about that.

    • #33
  4. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    Since birth, I have always been publicly conservative, and it is difficult at times, but I don’t know any other way.

    Tip of the hat, ma’am.

    • #34
  5. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Well I see that [redacted] are out in force this fine Saturday evening.

    The only argument I am really hearing in favor of conservatives trying to shut down or shout down liberals is that they started doing it first, and we need to “fight back”, and anyone who doesn’t favor trying to shut down liberal speech is guilty of not being willing to fight back.

    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children. There are certain things our enemies do to us that we don’t purposely do to them because we aren’t them. Some will call this weakness, others call it being civilized. When it gets to the point where some conservatives want to shut down people they disagree with, it has become clear that such conservatives have become what they hate.

    • #35
  6. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    Since birth, I have always been publicly conservative, and it is difficult at times, but I don’t know any other way.

    Tip of the hat, ma’am.

    Thank you, sir, all of the credit goes to my parents. They are amazing people, and I am incredibly lucky to have them.

    • #36
  7. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Boy ain’t that the damned truth. No one hits back harder when a “Conservative” starts attacking the Left than other “Conservatives.” Just ask the Tea Party who their biggest enemy was and who wanted to “bloody their nose.”

    I was a TEA Party activist, and I was always impressed by the civility and sensibility of the movement — and the stark contrast between that and the leftist nonsense.

    I never thought our biggest enemy was on the right. I thought it was the leftstream media — same as it is today. Sure, I was frustrated by Republicans — including my own congressman in Missouri — who thought the TEA Party just had to come around to the establishment way of thinking. He was wrong.

    I wonder, as I read the comments, how many folks here are parents who try to out-shout their children. Not many, I hope.

    No, I’m not going to surrender sense and civility, either for the satisfaction of it (which I can’t deny), nor for its supposed greater efficacy (which I happily challenge).

    • #37
  8. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children.

    I would if I thought it would work.  But the Muslim cult of death do not value their children and basically raise them to die so us killing them would accomplish nothing except maybe ridding the world of a future suicide bomber, jihadist or human shield.  The Israelis are smart enough to know this and so are most people.

    • #38
  9. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children.

    I would if I thought it would work. But the Muslim cult of death do not value their children and basically raise them to die so us killing them would accomplish nothing except maybe ridding the world of a future suicide bomber, jihadist or human shield. The Israelis are smart enough to know this and so are most people.

    Why do you think that shutting down and shouting down liberals will work? How do you envision that working?

    • #39
  10. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    History has shown that the people in the middle will give in to anyone who throws a big enough fit.  This is why we are where we are.

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Well I see that [redacted] are out in force this fine Saturday evening.

    The only argument I am really hearing in favor of conservatives trying to shut down or shout down liberals is that they started doing it first, and we need to “fight back”, and anyone who doesn’t favor trying to shut down liberal speech is guilty of not being willing to fight back.

    How do you propose we fight back, that will be effective?  Shutting down the opposition has been effective for the left oh these many decades, while the right has mostly stayed above the fray, refusing to do anything but tut-tut.  I’m sorry, but “tut-tut” isn’t fighting back.

    What do you propose?

    • #40
  11. Terry Mott Member
    Terry Mott
    @TerryMott

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children.

    I would if I thought it would work. But the Muslim cult of death do not value their children and basically raise them to die so us killing them would accomplish nothing except maybe ridding the world of a future suicide bomber, jihadist or human shield. The Israelis are smart enough to know this and so are most people.

    Why do you think that shutting down and shouting down liberals will work? How do you envision that working?

    It has worked for the left, over and over again.  Why do you think it wouldn’t work for the right?

    Understand, I’m not making an ethical argument here, just a tactical one.  I hate that we’ve come to this place.

    • #41
  12. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    This is what the right has been doing for my entire life.

    Actually, not.

    I’m pretty sure that most of my conservative friends would refer to Mr. Jenner as she. That’s nonsense: he’s still a man, whatever surgery he undergoes.

    I’m pretty sure that most of my conservative friends would blanch if I say that men and women are different, that men are better at some things than women are, and that feminism has duped women into surrendering what makes them unique and wonderful.

    And I’m almost certain that most of my conservative friends think that, since we’ve lost the same-sex marriage legal battle, we should call same-sex unions “marriage.”

    And I know for a fact that most of my conservative friends are still willing to send their children to colleges that are going to give them a poor education at great expense, and try to turn them into sniveling brats in the process.

    I think the right has been dormant for far too long.

    • #42
  13. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    It has worked for the left, over and over again. Why do you think it wouldn’t work for the right?

    Has it really worked for the left? They lost the Presidency, they lost both Houses of Congress, they are decimated at the state level, and according to @katebraestrup who is a former progressive, many of her religious brethren who were also progressive are having serious doubts about where the progressive agenda is leading. Is that your idea of a tactic working?

    • #43
  14. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    Shutting down the opposition has been effective for the left oh these many decades, while the right has mostly stayed above the fray, refusing to do anything but tut-tut. I’m sorry, but “tut-tut” isn’t fighting back.

    Um, my parents and their friends in the pro-life movement have done far more than just “tut-tut”. Some of my earliest memories are of picketing in front of abortion clinics. The conservatives I know do a lot more than hang around tut tutting people, and all of my life we have been fighting for our right to free speech, and mostly winning. After decades of fending off liberal attacks on free speech, hell will freeze over before I support a conservative attack on free speech.

    • #44
  15. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    I wonder, as I read the comments, how many folks here are parents who try to out-shout their children. Not many, I hope

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children

    Does everyone reading this thread see the flaw in our friends’ analogies as they try to justify their position? Let me help you: parents in families and the Israelis in Israel are in charge. They are the authorities.

    That is clearly not the case in the US. The Right is not in charge; the Left is.

    As I said earlier, a lot of people still do not understand the reality of the situation; therefore, it should not be surprising that their advice, while well-intentioned, smacks of fantasy and idealism, and is utterly ineffectual.

    Demonstrate! Agitate! Disrupt!

    Don’t allow the Left to be held harmless for their words and deeds. Take the battle to their safe spaces.

    • #45
  16. Damocles Inactive
    Damocles
    @Damocles

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    The Left uses force / violence. Why? Because it works.

    The Right uses civility. Why? Because they want to lose.

    Sure let’s keep losing.

    No, Fake. The right doesn’t lose because we’re too civil. We on the right lose because we’re pansies.

    You can refuse to comply with the left’s nonsense without raising your voice. You just have to be willing to pay a price for being willing to speak truth to leftist power.

    Civility and self control are things we on the right should value and want to conserve. That doesn’t mean being sissies, worrying that our co-workers are going to think we’re jerks if we express opinions they don’t like.

    I hear a lot from paper tigers, people who call for shouting down the left, but are afraid of the consequences of taking an “unacceptable” position in public. I don’t intend to act like a leftist, but neither do I intend to shut up.

    Can you translate this into tangible actions?

    • #46
  17. Damocles Inactive
    Damocles
    @Damocles

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    This idea of staying civil even when the left isn’t really isn’t very complicated.

    Look, most people are somewhere in the middle, disinclined to make a scene or shout anyone down. They’re observers, watching the outspoken people on both sides make their cases. (That’s true here, on social media, and in real life.)

    So, if you’re one of that big majority in the middle of the bell curve, what are you going to find more persuasive? Two sides screaming at each other and breaking things? Or one side screaming and breaking, and the other remaining firm, calm, and serious?

    If you think it’s the former, you’re mistaken.

    I agree with you it’s the latter. You do mean that the screaming and breaking side is going to get their way, right?

    • #47
  18. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Well I see that [redacted] are out in force this fine Saturday evening.

    The only argument I am really hearing in favor of conservatives trying to shut down or shout down liberals is that they started doing it first, and we need to “fight back”, and anyone who doesn’t favor trying to shut down liberal speech is guilty of not being willing to fight back.

    When Palestine terrorists blow up Jewish children, we don’t encourage the Israelis to “fight back” by blowing up Muslim children. There are certain things our enemies do to us that we don’t purposely do to them because we aren’t them. Some will call this weakness, others call it being civilized. When it gets to the point where some conservatives want to shut down people they disagree with, it has become clear that such conservatives have become what they hate.

    Well that might suit you but I prefer letting them taste their own medicine for a change and I don’t care what a bunch of [redacted] think about the matter.

    • #48
  19. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    It posted twice.

    • #49
  20. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Boy ain’t that the damned truth. No one hits back harder when a “Conservative” starts attacking the Left than other “Conservatives.” Just ask the Tea Party who their biggest enemy was and who wanted to “bloody their nose.”

    I was a TEA Party activist, and I was always impressed by the civility and sensibility of the movement — and the stark contrast between that and the leftist nonsense.

    I never thought our biggest enemy was on the right. I thought it was the leftstream media — same as it is today. Sure, I was frustrated by Republicans — including my own congressman in Missouri — who thought the TEA Party just had to come around to the establishment way of thinking. He was wrong.

    I wonder, as I read the comments, how many folks here are parents who try to out-shout their children. Not many, I hope.

    No, I’m not going to surrender sense and civility, either for the satisfaction of it (which I can’t deny), nor for its supposed greater efficacy (which I happily challenge).

    Oh forgive me I guess that was just my imagination when the GOP flipped their lids when  Christine O’Donnell won the Delaware primary, the Senate GOP backed the write in candidacy of what’s her name in Alaska, and the Indiana GOP worked against Murdouch, just to name a few examples. No the Tea Party was welcomed with open arms by the GOP Establishment. I completely forgot.

    • #50
  21. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    It seems that some conservatives are willing to compromise certain ideas about freedom, at least other people’s freedom, in order to gain power. Which tells me that if these conservatives ever achieve power, they won’t be any better than liberals. In which case, maybe I should just stick with the devil I know.

    That is a thought that goes through my head as I read this, and I am not the only one who will think that. We are a country founded by men who said things like, “I may disagree with what a man says, but I will defend to the death his right to say it.” That is the conservative tradition I am fighting for. Call me a gelding if you want, but if you abandon the principles this country was founded on because you think doing so will be an effective tactic, then you are killing the patient in order to save him. It won’t work.

    • #51
  22. Tennessee Patriot Member
    Tennessee Patriot
    @TennesseePatriot

    But we CAN’T say it. Oh, we can in our cocooned websites, but we can’t say it in public because we will get shouted down and violence will be used against us. There are rules for them and rules for us.

    • #52
  23. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Tennessee Patriot (View Comment):
    But we CAN’T say it. Oh, we can in our cocooned websites, but we can’t say it in public because we will get shouted down and violence will be used against us. There are rules for them and rules for us.

    I speak in public about my opinions all the time, and I always have. I live in Massachusetts. I am sorry if the environment in Tennessee is too hostile for you to speak out. Maybe moving north is something you should consider.

    • #53
  24. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Terry Mott (View Comment):
    Shutting down the opposition has been effective for the left oh these many decades, while the right has mostly stayed above the fray, refusing to do anything but tut-tut. I’m sorry, but “tut-tut” isn’t fighting back.

    Um, my parents and their friends in the pro-life movement have done far more than just “tut-tut”. Some of my earliest memories are of picketing in front of abortion clinics. The conservatives I know do a lot more than hang around tut tutting people, and all of my life we have been fighting for our right to free speech, and mostly winning. After decades of fending off liberal attacks on free speech, hell will freeze over before I support a conservative attack on free speech.

    Don’t look now but picketing in front of the places of business for political change is what the Left does according to the [redacted] here on the Right.

    • #54
  25. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Don’t look now but picketing in front of the laces of business for political change is what the Left does according to the [redacted] here on the Right.

    I am not sure what this means. So what if the left pickets on a public sidewalk in front of a business? Pro-lifers have always done that. It’s called freedom of speech.

    Are you saying that pro-lifers shouldn’t picket abortion clinics? I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you being sarcastic, and trying to point out that pro-lifers are usually peaceful, whereas leftists aren’t? Sorry for being dense, but I don’t get what you are saying.

    • #55
  26. Tennessee Patriot Member
    Tennessee Patriot
    @TennesseePatriot

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Tennessee Patriot (View Comment):
    But we CAN’T say it. Oh, we can in our cocooned websites, but we can’t say it in public because we will get shouted down and violence will be used against us. There are rules for them and rules for us.

    I speak in public about my opinions all the time, and I always have. I live in Massachusetts. I am sorry if the environment in Tennessee is too hostile for you to speak out. Maybe moving north is something you should consider.

    Ha- I would be applauded for saying these things where I live. But not at a major college campus ANYWHERE. Not if they knew what I was about to say!

    • #56
  27. Tennessee Patriot Member
    Tennessee Patriot
    @TennesseePatriot

    Interesting discussion- give it some likes so it can be promoted!

    • #57
  28. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    Tennessee Patriot (View Comment):
    Ha- I would be applauded for saying these things where I live. But not at a major college campus ANYWHERE. Not if they knew what I was about to say!

    So what? Unless they really want to go into medicine or engineering or something like that, I would advise most young people to stay away from college, although, my younger cousins who have been through the college ringer seem to have emerged with their conservative values intact. So what if your college professors don’t applaud you? There are people in the world who go to prison and are executed for speaking out: so what if your college professors don’t applaud you?

    • #58
  29. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Moderator Note:

    Repeated use of castrated farm animal terminology to insult opponents. Please engage on the issues and not at the level of personal insults.

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Don’t look now but picketing in front of the laces of business for political change is what the Left does according to the [redacted] here on the Right.

    I am not sure what this means. So what if the left pickets on a public sidewalk in front of a business? Pro-lifers have always done that. It’s called freedom of speech.

    Are you saying that pro-lifers shouldn’t picket abortion clinics? I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you being sarcastic, and trying to point out that pro-lifers are usually peaceful, whereas leftists aren’t? Sorry for being dense, but I don’t get what you are saying.

    It means that we shouldn’t use the Left’s tactics because that is uncivil, according to the [redacted] on the Right.

    • #59
  30. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    Well I see that [redacted] are out in force this fine Saturday evening.

    I thought I accurately described them. I didn’t think being honest was insulting.

    • #60
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