There are 6 comments.

1. Inactive
   ModEcon

   @ModEcon

   2:08 PM EDT ⋅ May 12, 2017

   Can I ask, if you did really say 21million id numbers?

   If so, doesn’t that suggest a lot more than 11 illegal aliens (or fraud I guess)? Or, does that include all the permanent legal residents so it would be a lot less. I would suspect that since many illegal aliens would not get the paperwork, shouldn’t we be able to analyze the data to detect fraud levels?

   Also, if there really are 21million illegal alien IDs, how many of those are getting ballots? If they are, then isn’t Trump’s number of 3million illegal votes not that hard to find plausible?

   I am not that surprised that it is true that fraud exists, just surprised at the magnitude.

   Good podcast, very interesting.

2. Coolidge
   JimGoneWild

   @JimGoneWild

   3:07 PM EDT ⋅ May 12, 2017

   I live in Reno so some of this we get, but not this much detail. Thanks.

3. Member
   Matt White

   @

   5:31 PM EDT ⋅ May 12, 2017

   I’m generally aware of of the stories of voter fraud, but hearing all those details makes it even more infuriating.

   Does this have potential to lead to improvement?  The recount attempt exposed massive fraud in Detroit last year, but I haven’t heard of any consequences. Has anyone in power responded to any of this effort?

4. Member
   Dave Sussman

   @DaveSussman

   Post author

   9:33 AM EDT ⋅ May 13, 2017

   Hi, folks. Here is Megan’s thorough answer to ModEcon’s question. – She’s checking in and will answer more questions through me. Thanks!

   According to the national immigration law center as of August 2012 were approximately 21 million ITIN’s assigned to taxpayers and their dependents since 1996.  According to LatinoTaxPro.org that number was 23 million, as of Nov. 2016.  Apparently there is no way to know exactly how many are illegals; however, a common estimate is 55-60 percent.

   http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/james-agresti/about-61-million-illegals-filed-taxes-us-many-didnt-pay-received-refunds

   Per the article identified above, according to the latest IRS data, about 72% of all ITIN filers in 2010 paid no income tax, but claimed refundable child tax credits (additional child tax credit) and received cash refunds – in other words – cash welfare.

   In comparison, only about 14% of people who file regular tax returns (using SSN) received child tax refunds without paying any federal income tax.

   This was confirmed by fact checker PolitiFact, in response to Clinton’s claim, in the last presidential debate, that half of all illegals pay federal income tax.  What they found was the exact opposite – that while roughly half of illegals FILE federal tax returns, the vast majority of them don’t pay any federal income taxes.

   In 2010, a total of $0.9 billion in federal income tax was paid by ITIN filers, BUT they received $4.9 billion in child tax credit refunds.  In other words, for 2010, ITIN filers received 5.4 times more cash than they paid in taxes, the majority of which ($4 billion) was for refundable child tax credits.

   Something more to consider in these numbers is that they include foreign investors – who are not eligible for child tax credits.  So, it’s possible that little-to-none of the 2010 taxes paid actually came from illegals.

   There were two bills introduced by Republican congressmen (2013, 2015) that would restrict illegals from obtaining refundable child tax credits; however, Harry Reid killed the bills.  Mike Pence was a sponsor of one of these bills, HR1956.  More details regarding these bills can be found here:

   http://www.wthr.com/article/will-lawmakers-act-to-close-tax-loophole-for-illegal-immigrants

5. Member
   Judge Mental

   @JudgeMental

   2:08 PM EDT ⋅ May 13, 2017

   The question for me is, when they find this evidence of massive fraud of various sorts, for example, $46 million in tax refunds going to a single address, what is the followup?  Do they track down each of those people and deport them, as one would expect?  I find myself doubting that.  But is there any followup at all?

6. Member
   RightAngles

   @RightAngles

   2:10 PM EDT ⋅ May 13, 2017

   I’ve always known there was voter fraud (I’m from Chicago), but like ModEcon, I’m shocked by the enormity of this. I’ve also always been sure the Democrats were well aware since they’re the ones mostly behind it. How galling it must have been, then, to still lose the last election in spite of their machinations.