Why the H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed

 

Billionaire businessman Marc Cuban insists that the H-1B visa racket is a feature of the vaunted American free market. This is nonsense on stilts. It can’t go unchallenged. Another billionaire, our president, has ordered that the H-1B program be reformed. This, too, is disappointing. You’ll see why.

First, let’s correct Mr. Cuban: America has not a free economy, but a mixed-economy. State and markets are intertwined. Trade, including trade in labor, is not free; it’s regulated to the hilt. If anything, the labyrinth of work visas is an example of a government-business cartel in operation.

The H-1B permit, in particular, is part of that state-sponsored visa system. The primary H-1B hogs—Infosys (and another eight, sister Indian firms), Microsoft, and Intel—import labor with what are grants of government privilege. Duly, the corporations that hog H-1Bs act like incorrigibly corrupt rent seekers. Not only do they get to replace the American worker, but they get to do so at his expense.

Here’s how:

Globally, a series of sordid liaisons ensures that American workers are left high and dry. Through the programs of the International Trade Administration, the Export-Import Bank, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the International Monetary Fund, and other oink-operations, the taxpaying American worker is forced to subsidize and underwrite the investment risks of the very corporations that have given him the boot.

Domestically, the partnership with the State amounts to a subsidy to business at the expense of the taxpayer. See, corporations in our democratic welfare state externalize their employment costs onto the taxpayers.

So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

Does this epitomize the classical liberal idea of laissez-faire?

Moreover, chain migration or family unification means every H-1B visa recruit is a ticket for an entire tribe. The initial entrant—the meal ticket—will pay his way. The honor system not being an especially strong value in the Third World, the rest of the clan will be America’s problem. More often than not, chain-migration entrants become wards of the American taxpayer.

Spreading like gravy over a tablecloth, this rapid, inorganic population growth is detrimental to all ecosystems: natural, social and political.

Take Seattle and its surrounding counties. Between April 2015 and 2016, the area was inundated with “86,320 new residents, marking it the region’s biggest population gains this century. Fueled in large part by the technology industry, an average of 236 people is moving to the Seattle area each day,” reported Geekwire.com. (Reporters for our local fish-wrapper—in my case, parrot-cage liner—have discharged their journalistic duties by inviting readers to “share” their traffic-jam stories.)

Never as dumb as the local reporters, the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Mark Zuckerberg, and Marc Cuban are certainly as detached.

Barricaded in their obscenely lavish compounds—from the comfort of their monster mansions—these social engineers don’t experience the “environmental impacts of rapid urban expansion”; the destruction of verdant open spaces and farmland; the decrease in the quality of the water we drink and air we breathe; the increase in traffic and traffic accidents; air pollution; the cellblock-like housing erected to accommodate their imported IT workers and extended families; the delicate bouquet of amped-up waste management and associated seepages.

For locals, this lamentable state means an inability to afford homes in a market in which property prices have been artificially inflated. Young couples lineup to view tiny apartments. They dream of that picket fence no more. (And our “stupid leaders,” to quote the president before he joined leadership, wonder why birthrates are so low!)

In a true free market, absent the protectionist state, corporate employers would be accountable to the community, and would be wary of the strife and lowered productivity brought about by a multiethnic and multi-linguistic workforce. All the more so when a foreign workforce moves into residential areas almost overnight as has happened in Seattle and its surrounds.

Alas, since the high-tech titans can externalize their employment costs on to the community; because corporations are subsidized at every turn by their victims—they need not bring in the best.

Cuban thinks they do. High tech needs to be able to “search the world for the best applicants,” he burbled to Fox News host Tucker Carlson.

Yet more cr-p.

Why doesn’t the president know that the H-1B visa category is not a special visa for highly skilled individuals, but goes mostly to average workers? “Indian business-process outsourcing companies, which predominantly provide technology support to corporate back offices,” by the Economist’s accounting.

Overall, the work done by the H-1B intake does not require independent judgment, critical reasoning, or higher-order thinking. “Average workers; ordinary talent doing ordinary work,” attest the experts who’ve been studying this intake for years. The master’s degree is the exception within the H-1B visa category.

More significant: there is a visa category that is reserved exclusively for individuals with extraordinary abilities and achievement. I know, because the principal sponsor in our family received this visa. I first wrote about the visa that doesn’t displace ordinary Americans in … 2008:

It’s the O-1 visa.

“Extraordinary ability in the fields of science, education, business or athletics,” states the Department of Homeland Security, “means a level of expertise indicating that the person is one of the small percentage who has risen to the very top of the field of endeavor.”

Most significant: There is no cap on the number of O-1 visa entrants allowed. Access to this limited pool of talent is unlimited.

My point vis-à-vis the O-1 visa is this: The H-1B hogs are forever claiming that they are desperate for talent. In reality, they have unlimited access to individuals with unique abilities through the open-ended O-1 visa program.

There is no limit to the number of geniuses American companies can import.

Theoretically, the H-1B program could be completely abolished and all needed Einsteins imported through the O-1 program.  (Why, even future first ladies would stand a chance under the business category of the O-1A visa, as a wealth-generating supermodel could certainly qualify.)

Now you understand my disappointment. In his April 18 Executive Order, President Trump promised to merely reform a program that needs abolishing. That is if “Hire American” means anything to anybody anymore.

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  1. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The OP points out that a polyglot workforce isn’t an advantage to anybody.

    I want the smartest people working with me. (Makes me look good.) Helps the company make money. Companies making money hire people and keep the people they hire.

    Some of the smartest people weren’t born here. If they don’t work here — or under contract to a company here — they work somewhere else. “Very, very bad” as a certain president with all the best words would quip.

    So bring ’em in with an O-1, like Ms Mercer says..

    It’s not quite that simple from an employer perspective. To qualify for the O1 and employer must demonstrate that the prospective employee is “at or near the top of their field” where as the H1B just requires a bachelors degree in the field for which you are hiring. So from say my perspective if I can’t find programmers for a very old language like Visual Basic (because our clients hold on to old systems for dear life) I sometimes have to bring in developers from other countries because US developers have moved on to more modern languages. Such a person would simply not qualify for an O1.

    Or you could train someone already here who knows how to program, but not in that language. But I guess that would involve a cost to your business, so we can’t have that.

    Yuh.  What’s so extraordinarily smart about having a BA? I thought your argument was that H1B enables you to get “the smartest!”   Or, uh, is this why you’re bringing ’em in, cuz they’re so far behind American programmers?  Oh, I see….

    • #121
  2. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Stina (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    We’re doing just fine. You want me to move 30 people to a different state because of one hire? Where’s the compassion for my current American employees?

    Not you, specifically, but I can not comprehend the allure of major urban centers like San Francisco or NYC or Washington DC to live in.

    People who are trying to raise families don’t typically pick places like these to settle in… they try to find suburban areas… and if they can swing the cost and the commute, rural. Why do businesses insist on settling in the very limited landscape of urban centers?

    There are many places that are close enough to universities and colleges without being in urban centers that could attract, not only employees, but ALSO encourage revival of business in those areas as services increase with the return of people working in a major company.

    What makes SF so alluring to you as a business person? Why are these other places such a bane on the existence of businesses?

    There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    • #122
  3. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    God knows, these businesses don’t care about Americans. Why should Americans care about them?

    I don’t think that’s true necessarily. I know it’s true in some cases, but not always.

    I think they are focused, as they need to be, on the bottom line.

    If they didn’t do that, they would be out of business, and the country would be the worse for it.

    But we, the American people and our government, need to look at their bottom line too and figure out how we can be part of that business so that they don’t use foreign workers but rather American workers.

    Northeastern University and the Rochester Institute of Technology are masters at working with businesses for the sake of their students.

    That’s what I’m looking for. That kind of creativity in government.

    • #123
  4. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The OP points out that a polyglot workforce isn’t an advantage to anybody.

    I want the smartest people working with me. (Makes me look good.) Helps the company make money. Companies making money hire people and keep the people they hire.

    Some of the smartest people weren’t born here. If they don’t work here — or under contract to a company here — they work somewhere else. “Very, very bad” as a certain president with all the best words would quip.

    So bring ’em in with an O-1, like Ms Mercer says..

    It’s not quite that simple from an employer perspective. To qualify for the O1 and employer must demonstrate that the prospective employee is “at or near the top of their field” where as the H1B just requires a bachelors degree in the field for which you are hiring. So from say my perspective if I can’t find programmers for a very old language like Visual Basic (because our clients hold on to old systems for dear life) I sometimes have to bring in developers from other countries because US developers have moved on to more modern languages. Such a person would simply not qualify for an O1.

    Or you could train someone already here who knows how to program, but not in that language. But I guess that would involve a cost to your business, so we can’t have that.

    Yuh. What’s so extraordinarily smart about having a BA? I thought your argument was that H1B enables you to get “the smartest!” Or, uh, is this why you’re bringing ’em in, cuz they’re so far behind American programmers? Oh, I see….

    It enables me to get the employees with the skillset who will do the job at a price that makes the company economically feasible.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many conservatives jettison basic economics when they don’t like the answer it provides.

    • #124
  5. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    I asked a genuine question in good faith from someone with experience I don’t have that may be able to provide some insight I could learn from…

    And this?

    Why are you so condescending?

    • #125
  6. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hey, here’s a thought. How about making some tweaks in the corporate culture to support telecommuting like, oh, say, most 21st century firms that develop software? Heck, some companies are entirely based on telecommuting. You might even get some kind of green energy/global warming tax credit from los bandidos in Sacramento.

    I find that with the type of agile project management we use that face to face interaction and collaboration is much more conducive to rapid build releases that our customers require.

    I thought we were talking about maintenance work on legacy systems using obsolete languages like VB. Are you really doing rapid agile development in that space? Not that I know the ins and outs of your specific situation, but it sure sounds like the textbook case for “outside” [telecommuting] contract work.

    We are considering making that change for legacy systems, but our software is compliance related at the state and county level and changes to requirements occur rapidly and often so we need to get builds out as fast as possible with requirement changes in order to mitigate both our own and our customers risk exposure. I won’t bore you with the details but the legacy systems weren’t built using the best design methodologies and involve a lot of hard coded stuff. Our modern produces reflect a different and more adaptable development methodology.

    • #126
  7. Judithann Campbell Member
    Judithann Campbell
    @

    MarciN (View Comment):
    That’s what I’m looking for. That kind of creativity in government.

    You know, Marci, if large numbers of tourist businesses were failing, then I would agree with you. But most tourist businesses do just fine hiring American workers and paying minimum wage. I just don’t see why the government should get involved to help out the 5%? or so who say that they just can’t do it.  Most people can do it. If a small minority can’t, that doesn’t justify government involvement.

    • #127
  8. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Judithann Campbell (View Comment):
    God knows, these businesses don’t care about Americans. Why should Americans care about them?

    I don’t think that’s true necessarily. I know it’s true in some cases, but not always.

    I think they are focused, as they need to be, on the bottom line.

    If they didn’t do that, they would be out of business, and the country would be the worse for it.

    But we, the American people and our government, need to look at their bottom line too and figure out how we can be part of that business so that they don’t use foreign workers but rather American workers.

    Northeastern University and the Rochester Institute of Technology are masters at working with businesses for the sake of their students.

    That’s what I’m looking for. That kind of creativity in government.

    It would be nice if those business owners would avail themselves of that conversation and engage in it rather than constantly advocate for open borders and free movement of labor.

    • #128
  9. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Stina (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    I asked a genuine question in good faith from someone with experience I don’t have that may be able to provide some insight I could learn from…

    And this?

    Why are you so condescending?

    Me? You’re the one telling me I live in a hellhole unfit for raising my family. How about this – not everyone believes like you do and maybe, just maybe I and my employees like it here.

    • #129
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    No it’s more that US based programmers don’t want to move backwards. What value is there to them to be working in a dead language? How does that help them enhance their skill sets? In the real world hiring people in knowledge professions is as much about what opportunities you can provide them the better themselves and their skills as it is a simple paycheck.

    In addition it is not good business to put your advanced and highly skilled programmers on legacy projects with no future. I’d rather put those developers on R&D and supporting current products. It’s better the the employee and better for the company.

    My 30-plus years experience in the industry tells me that there are some very talented programmers who command a high price. These people get put on the high value projects.

    There are also a lot of adequate programmers who took a couple classes at a tech school and are just trying to make a living. These people are perfectly suited to doing maintenance work on outmoded legacy projects with no future. You know, kind of like the interchangeable imports you’re trying to bring in to support those outmoded legacy projects with no future. Or are you hiring “advanced and highly skilled programmers” on visas to put on those “legacy projects with no future”?

    I have had an open positions for a legacy programmer in VB6 and VFP for going on 18 months now. We have not had one applicant willing to work in these languages. It’s not like I haven’t tried [redacted].

    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    (The Hon. Augusta Ada Byron King-Noel, Countess of Lovelace: a sickly, alcoholic gambler of questionable virtue generally regarded as the first computer programmer.)

     

    • #130
  11. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Percival (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    No it’s more that US based programmers don’t want to move backwards. What value is there to them to be working in a dead language? How does that help them enhance their skill sets? In the real world hiring people in knowledge professions is as much about what opportunities you can provide them the better themselves and their skills as it is a simple paycheck.

    In addition it is not good business to put your advanced and highly skilled programmers on legacy projects with no future. I’d rather put those developers on R&D and supporting current products. It’s better the the employee and better for the company.

    My 30-plus years experience in the industry tells me that there are some very talented programmers who command a high price. These people get put on the high value projects.

    There are also a lot of adequate programmers who took a couple classes at a tech school and are just trying to make a living. These people are perfectly suited to doing maintenance work on outmoded legacy projects with no future. You know, kind of like the interchangeable imports you’re trying to bring in to support those outmoded legacy projects with no future. Or are you hiring “advanced and highly skilled programmers” on visas to put on those “legacy projects with no future”?

    I have had an open positions for a legacy programmer in VB6 and VFP for going on 18 months now. We have not had one applicant willing to work in these languages. It’s not like I haven’t tried [redacted].

    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    (The Hon. Augusta Ada Byron King-Noel, Countess of Lovelace: a sickly, alcoholic gambler of questionable virtue generally regarded as the first computer programmer.)

    Tell me about it.

    • #131
  12. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Moderator Note:

    Hostile reading of intent.

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):
    Me? You’re the one telling me I live in a hellhole unfit for raising my family. How about this – not everyone believes like you do and maybe, just maybe I and my employees like it here.

    Considering the large swaths of Americans who refuse to move to “where the jobs are”, I think it a pertinent question to ask a business owner who settled his business in the SF area, as many business are wont to settle in heavy urban areas.
    [redacted]

    • #132
  13. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The OP points out that a polyglot workforce isn’t an advantage to anybody.

    I want the smartest people working with me. (Makes me look good.) Helps the company make money. Companies making money hire people and keep the people they hire.

    Some of the smartest people weren’t born here. If they don’t work here — or under contract to a company here — they work somewhere else. “Very, very bad” as a certain president with all the best words would quip.

    So bring ’em in with an O-1, like Ms Mercer says..

    It’s not quite that simple from an employer perspective. To qualify for the O1 and employer must demonstrate that the prospective employee is “at or near the top of their field” where as the H1B just requires a bachelors degree in the field for which you are hiring. So from say my perspective if I can’t find programmers for a very old language like Visual Basic (because our clients hold on to old systems for dear life) I sometimes have to bring in developers from other countries because US developers have moved on to more modern languages. Such a person would simply not qualify for an O1.

    Or you could train someone already here who knows how to program, but not in that language. But I guess that would involve a cost to your business, so we can’t have that.

    Yuh. What’s so extraordinarily smart about having a BA? I thought your argument was that H1B enables you to get “the smartest!” Or, uh, is this why you’re bringing ’em in, cuz they’re so far behind American programmers? Oh, I see….

    It enables me to get the employees with the skillset who will do the job at a price that makes the company economically feasible.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many conservatives jettison basic economics when they don’t like the answer it provides.

    No, we’re questioning the apparent contradiction between

    1: your stated desire to hire  the best and the brightest

    and

    2:  you can’t hire using the O1 visa because the job doesn’t require that much skill.

     

    If you only need someone with limited skills, than it shouldn’t be a problem to train an american with limited skills instead of bringing in a  foreigner with limited skills.

    • #133
  14. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    @cm @hypatia @miffedwhitemale @jamielockett

    Folks, there is a lot of condescension in this thread, and it’s coming from all directions.

    For instance, Hypatia’s “Oh, I see…”, for instance, Jamie’s “there are more things…”, or Miffed’s “what part of india…” remark are all snarky.

    Lots of you are making undue assumptions about each other’s positions and arguments, or trying to tell each other how to run others’ businesses.

    Make some effort here to take each other in good faith, and assume that each person here likely knows their own line of work better than you do.

     

    • #134
  15. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    By the way, I just finished watching The West Wing series, and so this point is fresh in my mind. The solution to vetting and moving employees around as industry needs them is right in front of our government in the way political campaigns work in this country. The Democratic and Republican Parties have migrant workforces that they move around the country as they need to. The senatorial and congressional races depend on this mobile workforce.

     

    • #135
  16. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The OP points out that a polyglot workforce isn’t an advantage to anybody.

    I want the smartest people working with me. (Makes me look good.) Helps the company make money. Companies making money hire people and keep the people they hire.

    Some of the smartest people weren’t born here. If they don’t work here — or under contract to a company here — they work somewhere else. “Very, very bad” as a certain president with all the best words would quip.

    So bring ’em in with an O-1, like Ms Mercer says..

    It’s not quite that simple from an employer perspective. To qualify for the O1 and employer must demonstrate that the prospective employee is “at or near the top of their field” where as the H1B just requires a bachelors degree in the field for which you are hiring. So from say my perspective if I can’t find programmers for a very old language like Visual Basic (because our clients hold on to old systems for dear life) I sometimes have to bring in developers from other countries because US developers have moved on to more modern languages. Such a person would simply not qualify for an O1.

    Or you could train someone already here who knows how to program, but not in that language. But I guess that would involve a cost to your business, so we can’t have that.

    Yuh. What’s so extraordinarily smart about having a BA? I thought your argument was that H1B enables you to get “the smartest!” Or, uh, is this why you’re bringing ’em in, cuz they’re so far behind American programmers? Oh, I see….

    It enables me to get the employees with the skillset who will do the job at a price that makes the company economically feasible.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many conservatives jettison basic economics when they don’t like the answer it provides.

    No, we’re questioning the apparent contradiction between

    1: your stated desire to hire the best and the brightest

    and

    2: you can’t hire using the O1 visa because the job doesn’t require that much skill.

    If you only need someone with limited skills, than it shouldn’t be a problem to train an american with limited skills instead of bringing in a foreigner with limited skills.

    There is a vast difference between hiring the best people for the job and hiring people “at the very top of their field” as required by the O1. Now I’ve had extensive conversations with labor and immigration attorney’s on this and have made the decision that best fits my business.

    • #136
  17. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    skipsul (View Comment):
    @cm @hypatia @miffedwhitemale @jamielockett

    Folks, there is a lot of condescension in this thread, and it’s coming from all directions.

    For instance, Hypatia’s “Oh, I see…”, for instance, Jamie’s “there are more things…”, or Miffed’s “what part of india…” remark are all snarky.

    Lots of you are making undue assumptions about each other’s positions and arguments, or trying to tell each other how to run others’ businesses.

    Make some effort here to take each other in good faith, and assume that each person here likely knows their own line of work better than you do.

    The conversation is getting confusing. It has been so interesting too. Sigh.

    • #137
  18. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine.  I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    • #138
  19. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Maybe instead of telling me how to run my business you should be looking for insight into what pressures require me to avail myself of things like outsourcing and H1B visas. Expand your knowledge instead of telling me what an awful person I am and that I’m keeping my family in some sort of Mad Max: Fury Road post apocalyptic hellscape.

    • #139
  20. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine. I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    Aren’t you in charge? Can’t you force the issue? My problem is recalcitrant customers not internal staff desires.

    • #140
  21. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    skipsul (View Comment):
    For instance, Hypatia’s “Oh, I see…”, for instance, Jamie’s “there are more things…”, or Miffed’s “what part of india…” remark are all snarky.

    In my defense, it was funny as well as snarky.

     

    • #141
  22. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):
    For instance, Hypatia’s “Oh, I see…”, for instance, Jamie’s “there are more things…”, or Miffed’s “what part of india…” remark are all snarky.

    In my defense, it was funny as well as snarky.

    Well, yes, but given how tense this thread has been it was a wee bit edgy.

    • #142
  23. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine. I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    Aren’t you in charge? Can’t you force the issue? My problem is recalcitrant customers not internal staff desires.

    It’s a partnership, so there is a division of authority.  The senior partner is the CEO and has used this system for 25+ years.  But he’s retiring soon and knows full well that it leaves with him.

    • #143
  24. She Member
    She
    @She

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    (The Hon. Augusta Ada Byron King-Noel, Countess of Lovelace: a sickly, alcoholic gambler of questionable virtue generally regarded as the first computer programmer.)

    Tell me about it.

    I remember VB6  last good release before Microsoft totally mucked it up.  And FoxPro.  And dBase II.  And the last great network operating system, Netware 3.12.  Ah, theyz were the doze.

    Years ago, I had a goat named Lady Ada Lovelace.

     

    • #144
  25. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    The OP points out that a polyglot workforce isn’t an advantage to anybody.

    I want the smartest people working with me. (Makes me look good.) Helps the company make money. Companies making money hire people and keep the people they hire.

    Some of the smartest people weren’t born here. If they don’t work here — or under contract to a company here — they work somewhere else. “Very, very bad” as a certain president with all the best words would quip.

    So bring ’em in with an O-1, like Ms Mercer says..

    It’s not quite that simple from an employer perspective. To qualify for the O1 and employer must demonstrate that the prospective employee is “at or near the top of their field” where as the H1B just requires a bachelors degree in the field for which you are hiring. So from say my perspective if I can’t find programmers for a very old language like Visual Basic (because our clients hold on to old systems for dear life) I sometimes have to bring in developers from other countries because US developers have moved on to more modern languages. Such a person would simply not qualify for an O1.

    Or you could train someone already here who knows how to program, but not in that language. But I guess that would involve a cost to your business, so we can’t have that.

    Yuh. What’s so extraordinarily smart about having a BA? I thought your argument was that H1B enables you to get “the smartest!” Or, uh, is this why you’re bringing ’em in, cuz they’re so far behind American programmers? Oh, I see….

    It enables me to get the employees with the skillset who will do the job at a price that makes the company economically feasible.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many conservatives jettison basic economics when they don’t like the answer it provides.

    No, we’re questioning the apparent contradiction between

    1: your stated desire to hire the best and the brightest

    and

    2: you can’t hire using the O1 visa because the job doesn’t require that much skill.

    If you only need someone with limited skills, than it shouldn’t be a problem to train an american with limited skills instead of bringing in a foreigner with limited skills.

    Exactly!  So it comes down to cheap labor.  Fair enough but then don’t obfuscate it with this brain-drain stuff.

    • #145
  26. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine. I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    Aren’t you in charge? Can’t you force the issue? My problem is recalcitrant customers not internal staff desires.

    It’s a partnership, so there is a division of authority. The senior partner is the CEO and has used this system for 25+ years. But he’s retiring soon and knows full well that it leaves with him.

    That’s rough. I imagine the conversion process is going to be a bear.

    • #146
  27. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    skipsul (View Comment):
    @cm @hypatia @miffedwhitemale @jamielockett

    Folks, there is a lot of condescension in this thread, and it’s coming from all directions.

    For instance, Hypatia’s “Oh, I see…”, for instance, Jamie’s “there are more things…”, or Miffed’s “what part of india…” remark are all snarky.

    Lots of you are making undue assumptions about each other’s positions and arguments, or trying to tell each other how to run others’ businesses.

    Make some effort here to take each other in good faith, and assume that each person here likely knows their own line of work better than you do.

    “Oh, I see” is condescending?  Oh, I se–I mean, “Aha!”

    • #147
  28. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine. I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    Aren’t you in charge? Can’t you force the issue? My problem is recalcitrant customers not internal staff desires.

    It’s a partnership, so there is a division of authority. The senior partner is the CEO and has used this system for 25+ years. But he’s retiring soon and knows full well that it leaves with him.

    That’s rough. I imagine the conversion process is going to be a bear.

    I can get all of the data exported as delimited text files, so I’m hoping it will be fairly clean.  The existing system pretty well only does accounting and rudimentary inventory control, so relinking fields should go well, the complexity is fairly low.

    • #148
  29. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    iWe (View Comment):

    Robert McReynolds (View Comment):
    I get that Jamie, as I said above about iWe’s shareholders, but it seems to me that both of you are first, second, third, and last only about the shareholders in your decisions,

    You do not seem to understand: my obligation is to the people who have put their trust (and dollars) in my efforts. I owe NO obligation to employees. Indeed, our company has NO EMPLOYEES. Why would we take on the paperwork? The regulation? The hassle? How does having employees fulfill my duties?

    such as the sue of H1Bs to produce a better looking bottom line. Now, whether you do or do not use this H1B mechanism in your company I don’t know, but if you do, it would seem to me that if it came down to a decision between the guy who is making 50K at your company with the mortgage, CC debt, a family of four, and God knows what else or that guy who is hoping to get a 5% as opposed to a 4.5% return on investment, you are going to opt for getting that half a percent.

    It is a false premise. We do not use H1-Bs. We do not use visas at all. We partner and source our work with people who co-invest in the company, and where that does not make sense, we find the cheapest supplier who meets the requirements.

    Producing a world-beating technology that will save significant time for billions of people, making an entire industry far more efficient, competing with the behemoths in the industry… these are challenging enough without wasting resources and cycles trying to needlessly increase our overheads.

    Similarly, for example, we do not have conventional offices. That deprives the commercial real estate sector of business. But it means our shareholders’ money can be spent on things that need doing. Is that, too, somehow irresponsible? Should we be taking money from people and wasting it?

    Well this actually sounds like a business practice that I could encourage. It’s one thing to use the virtual world to cooperate with internationally based folks of like mind to build a great product. It’s quite something else in my eyes to import a cheaper labor force at the expense of your fellow citizen. The virtual world is changing the way businesses function, and I am all for it.

    • #149
  30. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Jamie Lockett (View Comment):

    skipsul (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    FoxPro? Seriously? That is going to be grim. May the shade of Ada Lovelace watch over you.

    I’ve got it worse – my accounting system is based on a DOS runtime-only Btrieve engine. I’m running out of bandaids an the senior partner here won’t let me replace the withered old beast.

    Aren’t you in charge? Can’t you force the issue? My problem is recalcitrant customers not internal staff desires.

    It’s a partnership, so there is a division of authority. The senior partner is the CEO and has used this system for 25+ years. But he’s retiring soon and knows full well that it leaves with him.

    That’s rough. I imagine the conversion process is going to be a bear.

    I can get all of the data exported as delimited text files, so I’m hoping it will be fairly clean. The existing system pretty well only does accounting and rudimentary inventory control, so relinking fields should go well, the complexity is fairly low.

    Heck I had trouble doing that between a legacy version of Quickbooks and the more modern version. I don’t even want to attempt what you are.

    • #150
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