White House Talking Tough on Syria

 

This week’s chemical attack on civilians has changed President Trump’s attitude toward the intractable civil war in Syria. At a Rose Garden press conference with King Abdullah of Jordan, Trump condemned the attack and the brutality of Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

“It’s very, very possible, and I will tell you it has already happened, that my attitude toward Syria and Assad, has changed very much,” Mr. Trump said. “I think the Obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis. When he didn’t cross that line, after making the threat, I think that set us back a long ways. It was a blank threat.”

When a reporter asked if Assad’s apparent use of WMDs crossed a “red line,” Trump said it did. “When you kill innocent children, innocent babies, little babies, with a chemical gas that is so lethal — people were shocked to hear what gas it was — that crosses many, many lines, beyond a red line, many, many lines,” he said.

The President didn’t announce any specific action against Assad, but the administration’s tough talk is spreading.

Wednesday at the UN, Amb. Nikki Haley blamed Russia for blocking a strong response to the chemical weapons attack. “Time and time again Russia uses the same false narrative to deflect attention from their allies in Damascus,” she said at an emergency session. “How many more children have to die before Russia cares?”

“When the United Nations consistently fails in its duty to act collectively, there are times in the life of states that we are compelled to take our own action,” Haley warned in her closing remarks. “For the sake of the victims, I hope the rest of the council is finally willing to do the same.”

Trump strongly opposed military intervention in Syria while he was a private citizen. Now that he sits behind the Resolute desk, is he changing his mind?

Published in Foreign Policy, Military
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  1. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    JcTPatriot (View Comment):
    The narrative for the August 2013 [gas] attack in Ghouta, which Barack Obama cited as the pretext for a long awaited U.S. attack on government targets in aid of jihadist rebels, completely collapsed after it emerged that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.

    Not to defend Obama, but I googled your assertion and the most reputable source, by far is RT (Russia Today), a clear Kremlin propaganda arm.

    • #31
  2. JcTPatriot Member
    JcTPatriot
    @

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    JcTPatriot (View Comment):
    The narrative for the August 2013 [gas] attack in Ghouta, which Barack Obama cited as the pretext for a long awaited U.S. attack on government targets in aid of jihadist rebels, completely collapsed after it emerged that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.

    Not to defend Obama, but I googled your assertion and the most reputable source, by far is RT (Russia Today), a clear Kremlin propaganda arm.

    I was talking to my dad early this morning and he mentioned, “Well, Assad has already used chemical weapons…” and I said I thought they disproved that. So I went looking, and yeah, I found the above quote on Infowars, a site I don’t follow. The trouble is, I can’t find anything else on that Ghouta attack that directly linked it to anyone. Assad willingly gave up his chemical weapons and we destroyed them, so really I just don’t know, and maybe I shouldn’t have posted that if it originated in Russia.

    Of course, this just keeps proving everyone’s point that we should stay as far away from that mess as we can. I still stand by my original point that Assad had zero reason to use chemical weapons with the whole world watching, and the opposition had many reasons to use them, especially if they are losing, as Tillerson said.

    • #32
  3. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    I guess we need to start deciding how much, exactly, in terms of blood and treasure this is worth to us.

    I recommend legalizing a private crusader army funded via patreon or gofundme.

    Lets find out.

    • #33
  4. Roberto Inactive
    Roberto
    @Roberto

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    I guess we need to start deciding how much, exactly, in terms of blood and treasure this is worth to us.

    I recommend legalizing a private crusader army funded via patreon or gofundme.

    Lets find out.

    The return of Roosevelt’s Rough Riders eh?

    • #34
  5. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Roberto (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    I guess we need to start deciding how much, exactly, in terms of blood and treasure this is worth to us.

    I recommend legalizing a private crusader army funded via patreon or gofundme.

    Lets find out.

    The return of Roosevelt’s Rough Riders eh?

    Something like that.  I am thinking something sanctioned but not funded by the government.  More of a “if you want to organize a mercenary army, and go fight syrians, go nuts” sorta thing.

    • #35
  6. Taras Bulbous Inactive
    Taras Bulbous
    @TarasBulbous

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    I guess we need to start deciding how much, exactly, in terms of blood and treasure this is worth to us.

    I recommend legalizing a private crusader army funded via patreon or gofundme.

    Lets find out.

    Will they sack Constantinople en route?

    There is nothing to be gained from sending our soldiers into this turd storm.

    • #36
  7. Joe P Member
    Joe P
    @JoeP

    How would intervention here not end up spiraling into World War III?

    It’s one thing to argue that Obama should have intervened when he gave the red line speech. Ignoring the problems of nation building that have become more obvious since 2001, America could have kicked over the Assad regime and nobody would have been particularly sad to see him go.

    But now? When Russia is there intervening on behalf of Assad? How would an intervention work now without risking an actual shooting war with Russia?

    • #37
  8. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Taras Bulbous (View Comment):
    Will they sack Constantinople en route?

    That would be a bonus at this point.

    • #38
  9. Pilli Inactive
    Pilli
    @Pilli

    Guruforhire (View Comment):

    Roberto (View Comment):

    Guruforhire (View Comment):
    I guess we need to start deciding how much, exactly, in terms of blood and treasure this is worth to us.

    I recommend legalizing a private crusader army funded via patreon or gofundme.

    Lets find out.

    The return of Roosevelt’s Rough Riders eh?

    Something like that. I am thinking something sanctioned but not funded by the government. More of a “if you want to organize a mercenary army, and go fight syrians, go nuts” sorta thing.

    Where would air cover come from?

    • #39
  10. Chris Campion Coolidge
    Chris Campion
    @ChrisCampion

    James Of England (View Comment):

    Chris Campion (View Comment):

    James Of England (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    It seems to me like the US wins plenty of wars without taking this approach. South Koreans, Kuwaitis, the ex-Yugoslavs, and such seem to be mostly enjoying peace in a non-euphemistic sense. There were some parts of US occupied Germany and Japan that saw substantial portions of civilians die at American hands, but most of the countries did not.

    Maybe Syria is not like the others, but I’m not clear what makes you confident that this is the case.

    But plenty of wars were decided by enormous levels of destruction –

    If Jon were presenting it as an option, I’d agree.

    WW2, as a small example. Ask Dresden and Tokyo – not to mention one or two other cities in Japan.

    Japan saw a little over 3% of its civilian population die from all causes. The Germans saw more, but mostly from German and Russian efforts. The Italians lost well under half a percent. The bombing of civilians was not a pacifying measure but one aimed at destroying capacity and/ or demonstrating the futility of fighting a nuclear America.

    Oh, and North Korea was at least partially won by the very real threat of nuclear weapons being dropped on their heads – or China’s – by a country that just dropped two of them on one of their neighbors eight years earlier.

    The Korean War came to a peace agreement that more or less mirrored the final agreement on all fronts bar pow exchanges before the nuclear threat was issued. Then the war went on another two years with a threat of nukes because they were bad at negotiating the pow issue.

    edit: to clarify, the Korean War was done when the participants agreed to end it; it didn’t require atrocities to be inflicted as a tool of persuasion. It’s hard to imagine an atrocity the US could have inflicted that the Norks would have felt was unacceptable for their people.

    This may not shock you, but I’m aware of all that.  And the destruction isn’t just about lives, chief.  It was about infrastructure, the ability to make war, that was targeted.  Not civilians.  Dresden wasn’t bombed because of its population.  Neither was Nagasaki or Hiroshima.

    Wars ended on scales small or big does not mean the next war is fought, won or lost, the same way.  Assuming that a Serbian conflict will replicate itself in Indonesia would probably be a flawed assumption.

    • #40
  11. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Chris Campion (View Comment):

    James Of England (View Comment):

    Chris Campion (View Comment):

    James Of England (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    It seems to me like the US wins plenty of wars without taking this approach. South Koreans, Kuwaitis, the ex-Yugoslavs, and such seem to be mostly enjoying peace in a non-euphemistic sense. There were some parts of US occupied Germany and Japan that saw substantial portions of civilians die at American hands, but most of the countries did not.

    Maybe Syria is not like the others, but I’m not clear what makes you confident that this is the case.

    But plenty of wars were decided by enormous levels of destruction –

    If Jon were presenting it as an option, I’d agree.

    WW2, as a small example. Ask Dresden and Tokyo – not to mention one or two other cities in Japan.

    Japan saw a little over 3% of its civilian population die from all causes. The Germans saw more, but mostly from German and Russian efforts. The Italians lost well under half a percent. The bombing of civilians was not a pacifying measure but one aimed at destroying capacity and/ or demonstrating the futility of fighting a nuclear America.

    Oh, and North Korea was at least partially won by the very real threat of nuclear weapons being dropped on their heads – or China’s – by a country that just dropped two of them on one of their neighbors eight years earlier.

    The Korean War came to a peace agreement that more or less mirrored the final agreement on all fronts bar pow exchanges before the nuclear threat was issued. Then the war went on another two years with a threat of nukes because they were bad at negotiating the pow issue.

    edit: to clarify, the Korean War was done when the participants agreed to end it; it didn’t require atrocities to be inflicted as a tool of persuasion. It’s hard to imagine an atrocity the US could have inflicted that the Norks would have felt was unacceptable for their people.

    This may not shock you, but I’m aware of all that. And the destruction isn’t just about lives, chief. It was about infrastructure, the ability to make war, that was targeted. Not civilians. Dresden wasn’t bombed because of its population. Neither was Nagasaki or Hiroshima.

    Wars ended on scales small or big does not mean the next war is fought, won or lost, the same way. Assuming that a Serbian conflict will replicate itself in Indonesia would probably be a flawed assumption.

    I completely agree that there is a diversity in how wars are fought and decided. I was disputing Jon’s claim that only one way was possible here. I agree that there was considerable infrastructure loss to American strategic bombing and that not all destruction is about lives.

    Since Jon’s statement seems nonsensical as applied to the Romans and Syria, and nonsensical as applied to the initial conquest of Judea, I suspect that Jon is referring to the Jewish diaspora as the model, though, which was about lives. Jon’s other example, Ghengis, also focused on the destruction of human capital.

    • #41
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