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We’re Against Emotionalism, Except When We’re Not
Conservatives have rightly taken pride in Neil Gorsuch’s calm and cerebral performance at his Senate confirmation hearings. Many commentators, along with Republican senators, have mocked Democrats for presuming to evaluate Gorsuch based on the outcomes of his cases. Did he “side with the little guy” or with big corporations? The correct answer, conservatives have correctly chided, is that justice is supposed to be blind. A good judge makes determinations based upon the facts and the law without regard to whether he personally prefers one party to another and without some social justice agenda to equalize the fortunes of little guys versus big guys. It’s not little versus big, sympathetic versus unsympathetic in a courtroom, but facts and law.
It’s a shame then, that so many conservatives are disregarding the virtues they laud in Gorsuch – prudence, careful weighing of facts, refusal to be swayed by emotional appeals – when it comes to a disturbing story of a rape in Maryland.
Reports indicate that a 14-year-old high school student in Rockville, Maryland (a suburb of Washington, DC) may have been sodomized and raped in the boys’ bathroom by two suspects. At least one of the suspects, according to Fox 5 in Baltimore, was an 18 year old who had recently entered the country illegally and was enrolled in the school as a freshman. The other, also an immigrant, is 17.
Emotional reactions to heinous crimes are completely understandable, but as Judge Gorsuch has properly reminded us, our feelings are not a good guide to justice. Neither are they a prescription for sensible policy. Quite the opposite.
If the evidence shows that the victim’s account is correct – that she was pushed into the bathroom by the two suspects and raped by both of them in a stall – the young men could be facing many years in prison and deserve to.
But many are rushing to link this inflammatory case – before we know the facts — to the larger cause of immigration restriction. White House spokesman Sean Spicer drew the link: “Part of the reason the president has made illegal immigration such an issue is because of tragedies like this. . .This is why he’s passionate about this. Because people are victims of these crimes. Immigration pays its toll on our people.” That is exploiting people’s anger, which is bad enough, and it’s false, which is worse.
There are good and bad arguments against immigration. I am sympathetic to some restrictionist points, but smearing immigrants as out-of-control criminals is shameful. High rates of immigration, legal and illegal, are not associated with spikes in crime. In our recent history, between 1990 and 2013, the illegal immigrant population in the U.S. more than tripled to 11.2 million. Yet FBI data indicate that the violent crime rate declined by 48 percent during those years. This included violent crimes like aggravated assault, robbery, rape, and murder. Rates of property crime fell by 41 percent, including declining rates of motor vehicle theft, larceny/robbery, and burglary.
As a survey by the CATO Institute shows, immigrants – both legal and illegal – are less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans. And when you exclude those illegal immigrants who are jailed for immigration offenses (i.e. just for being here illegally), the numbers really plunge. Looking at the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, CATO notes that illegal immigrants are 44 percent less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans. Legal immigrants are 69 percent less likely to be jailed than natives. White native-born Americans are more likely to be imprisoned than black immigrants, legal or illegal. The Wall Street Journal’s Jason Riley cites a Public Policy Institute study showing that while the foreign-born comprise 35 percent of California’s population, they represent 17 percent of the state prison population.
Some immigrants commit crimes. But as the data show, most keep their noses clean. About seven percent of our population is comprised of non-citizens, yet they account for only 5 percent of the prison population.
We don’t yet know the facts of the rape case in Maryland. But even if they turn out to be every bit as brutal as first reports indicate, the attempt to tar all immigrants with this brush – or to let emotional appeals dictate policy — is exactly what fair-minded admirers of Judge Gorsuch will resist.
Published in Domestic Policy, General, Immigration
The supposed future Hispanic majority US is going to be such a miserable place.
Once I hear the word “illegal” the conversation is over. I love immigration when it is LEGAL. I think I won’t pay my taxes this year and see what happens.
You guys don’t see what I see and that’s fine. I am positive I’m correct Ryan. Like a fervent preacher committed to converting all she can, Mona’s desires are interlaced with everything she puts on her pieces. Just because she doesn’t come out and and hurl a bible doesn’t mean she’s not trying to save your souls with this rather odd piece.
I also don’t find her very intelligent regardless of her views and I’m going to read and comment wherever I choose here.
I am an American patriot to the core and I think her thought process and anyone she influences to her way of thinking are dangerous. I am sure she’d feel the same of my line of thinking and the few I’ve influenced. There is a battle going on in this country and I have my side.
To dismiss my insights as some childish bias which clouds my observations is a foolish line of thinking. I don’t do that to you two when we disagree.
Editor Note:
Inappropriate personal slander.Shorter version: don’t treat me the same way I treat Mona because I’m smart and good and right and she’s dumb and dangerous and evil.
Preach it Doc! Right on! Amen!
I haven’t read all of the comments, but I think I’m the first in this thread to call it a hoax. Given how many people are so torqued-off about this, and how quickly it’s been mangled to fit the anti-immigrant narrative, I have to think the core allegation is fake. Maybe sex occurred, but I’m much more inclined to think it was consensual.
It is true that conservatives have grown suspicious of rape charges among young people generally.
Although, on the other hand, a great many conservatives would like to see age of consent enforced, which in Maryland is only lowered to 14 when the age difference between parties is small. Else it’s 16.
To me , it’s all just a little too deliciously perfect to be true. I’d be very curious to hear what the girl’s nationality and ethnicity are. And especially, did she have some ongoing relationship with either of the two assailants?
I’m willing to bet on it’s not a hoax. $100 even money is my standard bet.
And I’ve only scanned the comments – are we using “immigrant” and “illegal immigrant” indiscriminately now depending on our own narrative?
I am the daughter of immigrants, like many of my friends and relatives. I also have several friends who are immigrants. It’s a topic I’ve discussed with all of them and none of us have felt a whiff of “anti-immigrant”. Nor did my parents when they were alive.
Interestingly, I was accused of behaving in a racist manner to an immigrant recently. Her accusation about me was completely made up to fit her narrative and notion of: Annie, the evil Trump voter.
Few who heard the story believed it as it wasn’t believable.
Unlike the story that is the subject of the OP.
BTW, the story is believable regardless of the immigration status of the perps. If one or more of them is illegal it lends credence to an already credible story.
Was it “deliciously perfect” when Kate Steinle was murdered?
What a curious turn of phrase.
What does the girl’s nationality and ethnicity have to do with anything? Are you concerned that she’s illegal? Or a slut? Or both?
There was blood along with bodily fluids collected from the scene (according to reputable news sites). The girl reported the event right after it occurred, so they would have examined the girl and collected evidence that would have verified her story about vaginal, anal and oral penetration from either or both men.
The two ‘boys’ are being charged by the police who seem quite serious about their charges, and haven’t indicated thing to suggested they doubt the story.
If the evidence supports the girl’s story but the event was in fact consensual, you’d have to believe that this 14 year old welcomed rough vaginal, oral and anal sex from two men at the same time, one of them a stranger to her, in school bathroom during school hours.
On a Thursday morning no less.
These comments are repellent to me. I can understand withholding judgement until all evidence is in – but to say what you’re saying right now….. dude!
I dropped by this thread to address the discussion of “emotionalism” vs “unemotionalism”.
Newsflash to all of you, it’s all about feelings. Every single person, including the author of the OP, is reacting to a “feeling”.
The desire to appear morally superior is motivated by a feeling of superiority, as is sanctimony. Go ahead and try and convince us that you are not being swayed by an emotional appeal. But at least be honest with yourself.
And while this is already been addressed in other comments, I can’t not comment on Mona’s comments about crime and immigration and that when immigration goes up, there’s not a spike in crime. And that crime is going down (which has got nothing to do with anything).
The bottom line is that if there were zero illegal immigrants in the country, there would be less crime. Period. There would be fewer rapes, fewer murders, fewer car thefts, fewer muggings, fewer robberies and few traffic tickets.
Because the illegal immigrants who commit those crimes would not be here to commit them.
Or do you think that citizens would step up criminal behavior to fill the gap?
Jason, I think I hear the PIT calling you and MFR home.
Well, not really. I did make a comment back on page 1 that says I think illegal immigrants seem more likely than legal immigrants, but not for the reasons you suggest. Actually, the other way around. If someone is going through all the hassle of becoming a legal citizen, I’d be surprised to see that person become a hardened criminal… on the other hand, illegal immigration from Mexico is super appealing, and it is not terribly difficult. I’ve encountered a great many who fall in that camp, and I don’t believe it is an indicator of much. That is not a broken law in the same sense that rape or murder or shoplifting are… would you say that someone who speeds is more likely to rape? I think that line of reasoning falls apart pretty quickly. The willingness to break certain laws does not necessarily translate into an eagerness to commit crimes.
ok – I was not saying “illegal immigrant,” but you can add that to each use of the term “immigrant” in this comment, and the point remains.
TempTime, please explain to me how this comment is any different from you responding with, simply “shut up and go away.”
No lawyer tricks!
I think the people entering our country illegally are a mixed bag -from people who’re unlikely to break all but minor laws to hardened criminals – and every category in between. Our government, in collecting these people at the border and disseminating them around the country appear to have made little to no effort to determine who these people are and where they’d fit on this continuum. I don’t think they (government) care – they have a greater objective in these actions and don’t give a damn about the financial and personal risks they subject the rest of us to.
You’re basically proving Mona’s point.
See my comment #135
What point is that?
I was using PIT humor with some fellow PITsters.
Having an ideological argument ready and waiting is possible while still employing emotional arguments for persuasion.
This has been said time and again and neither of you have provided decent counter arguments on this point – people are persuaded by emotional arguments.
If you have a sound, ideological argument behind your rhetoric, you should be free to employ emotional arguments.
The problem with the left is that their emotional arguments aren’t backed up by any sound logic.
There exist logical and consistent arguments to support the emotional outrage of conservatives.
Letting emotionalism overwhelm good sense and reason.
That Trump supporters are idiots. We’re idiots Annefy. She’s a genius.
And you and her the poster child for those. Get over yourself.
Jason I have no clue about the specifics of the case beyond a couple stories. I’ve seen the effects of rape though as well as false accusations of rape. If either of my girls came to me with this story I’d strap on some 45s and buck knife and find the sobs and go to work on them like the inquisition until they were nothing more than red spots on the ground.
Since the thread has devolved into a series of CoC violations, I am shutting down comments.