What’s Up with Rape in Sweden?

 

President Trump was more right than wrong about Sweden. Fox News was slightly misleading.

As you’ve heard, Trump referred to “what happened in Sweden.” On Twitter, smug critics circulated lists of anodyne events like concerts and road accidents and accused the President of inventing a terror attack. He didn’t cite a terror attack, though his words were characteristically imprecise. Two days later, as if to underscore that Trump had a point, riots erupted in a suburb of Stockholm.

As Andrew Brown of The Guardian put it, Sweden looms large in the “fantasies of the outside world.” It is, by turns, a socialist utopia, a sexually liberated Busch Gardens, or a Mad Max hellscape, depending on your agenda.

Fox News, and more particularly, certain right wing websites, have been conjuring the “Idyllic Sweden destroyed by Muslim refugees” line, complete with “no go” zones, Sharia law, and terror attacks. That’s an exaggeration, but so is the Washington Post’s take: “In 2015, when the influx of refugees and migrants to Europe from Africa, the Middle East and Asia was at its peak, Sweden took in the greatest number per capita. By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents such as the one on Monday night…”

In fact, Sweden has been taking large numbers of refugees and immigrants for decades. They’ve accepted Balkans, Iraqis, Somalis, and many others. The Washington Post notwithstanding, there is a connection between immigration and criminality and other problems. As the Swedish economist Tino Sanandaji has noted, the employment rate for native Swedes is about 82 percent, but it’s only 58 percent for immigrants, and lower still for non-Western immigrants. Among native Swedes, the crime rate is equivalent to Iceland’s. But in immigrant-heavy neighborhoods, lawbreaking is comparable to the much higher overall rate in the US (though not to the high-crime areas of US cities).

Immigrants have found integration into Sweden’s homogenous culture very difficult, partially because low-skill jobs have been disappearing as Sweden — like others in the developed world — de-industrializes. Though many immigrants, like Sanandaji himself, have managed the challenge, others rely on welfare state subsidies. Joblessness and alienation have sparked riots and other anti-social behavior. At outdoor festivals like “We Are Stockholm,” women have been groped. Public swimming pools have become venues for gangs of young, immigrant men to harass women. Malmö has been losing its small Jewish population, and the Simon Wiesenthal Center issued a travel warning due to threats and attacks on Jews from Muslim immigrants.

The image of hordes of immigrants raping Swedish women however, is, to say no more, overheated. Getting good statistics on rape in Sweden is difficult. On one hand, the government, in obedience to feminist dictates, has broadened the definition of rape very considerably to include many things that most Americans would not consider rape. Julian Assange, for example, for whom I have no sympathy in general, apparently ripped a condom in an otherwise consensual encounter (well, twice) and hides in the Ecuadorian embassy to evade rape charges.

On the other hand, the number of Swedish women who say they have been the victims of sexual assault of some kind “in the past year” has been rising, along with those who say they have changed their habits in some way (avoiding certain areas after dark and so forth). The absolute numbers are much lower than those in the US, but the trend is up. Also, for those who picture blonde Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

Tino Sanandaji cautions against the broad-brush depiction of Sweden’s immigration indigestion as a matter of Muslim influence. Some 17 percent of Swedes are foreign born, but only 3 to 5 percent identify as Muslim. Many of the immigrants who sought refuge in Sweden from the Middle East were Maronite and Assyrian Christians. Others are atheists who were fleeing Islam. They are influenced, Sanandaji argues, more by American gangsta rap and “The Sopranos” than by the Koran. Sweden has had only one terror attack by a Muslim extremist (who killed only himself), though that, of course, could change at any time.

Both major political parties in Sweden have minimized (even whitewashed) the burdens of being the world’s “humanitarian superpower.” The result has been the rise of the Swedish Democrats, a party whose bland name conceals a Nazi past. The party earned only 3 percent support in 2010. Today it is pushing 18 percent.

Sweden offers many lessons, but the most critical is: Seek the truth, not a narrative.

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  1. Ryan M(cPherson) Inactive
    Ryan M(cPherson)
    @RyanM

    Mona Charen: They are influenced, Sanandaji argues, more by American gangsta rap and “The Sopranos” than by the Koran.

    This is particularly interesting to think about.

    From a left-wing outlet, I would read that to be the same old tired argument that Islam is the religion of peace, and that America is to blame.  But that’s not the point being made, here.  At least, I don’t think it is.  What he’s saying is that there aren’t enough religious Muslims for that to be a big motivating factor (though it surely could if the population were greater).  To take a step even further back, it does seem to illustrate that the rejection of traditional morality and social norms does have its consequences.  Looking just at the latter part of that, I wonder if the less “melty” the pot, the more we might see this sort of thing happening.  It is not a danger of immigration per se, but it may explain the value of motivation.  Immigration to a country (as with the United States) for its ideals and its freedoms, rather than immigration for the sake of convenience (e.g. welfare or proximity).

    • #1
  2. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Found this interesting.

     

    • #2
  3. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Swedish political correctness appear to be about as pervasive in that country as North Korean Leader-worship in theirs–maybe worse because the Swedish PC devotees seem to believe it.

    The vast majority of Sweden’s Muslim immigrants are unemployed and probably largely unemployable.

    Assimilation always struck me as unlikely.  How exactly would a skill-free young Muslim Arab go about turning himself into a depressed secular Nordic government employee?  Why would anyone covert to a cultural suicide movement without even the false drama of jihad?  What the hell did Swedes think would happen with these people?  They can barely assimilate their eastern European immigrants.

    • #3
  4. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    I think it is easy to over estimate the ideals of most immigrants to America. Convenience and opportunity are the biggest drivers, though the mythology of America as a land of the free is far more universal. And if one is a religious minority seeking refuge America with its First Amendment protections for religious freedom seems a much better place to go than some European country where they could ban your religious clothing or religious displays. This being said though there is probably more idealism among immigrants to America than immigrants to Sweden.

    In some ways I wonder if the problem with Sweden’s immigration issues is that they are too conservative about their culture. America has a very dynamic culture and because of our size and heterogeneity you can always find a niche or create one for your self. It really is part of the process in American history to have these kind of hyper homogeneous enclaves, whether it is Quakers, Catholics, Jews, Germans, Mormons, Italians, Chinese, Poles, Mexicans, African Americans, etc. Not all of these groups were there at the founding but we created a system of government that was designed to allow various disparate communities to cooperate and form a unified government. All new groups coming in had the pattern established for political integration and buying into the system.  The one great failure really being African Americans which where actively excluded until the last half of the 20th century from organically integrating into society.

    • #4
  5. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    It’s possible to see a situation without agenda.

    Even as religion fades the misogyny lingers.  Only women can change the culture.  Muslim women.

    • #5
  6. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Mona, you are terrific. I have been following you, on and off, for thirty years or so (I remember when Thirty-something was your favorite TV show). This column was typical Mona: Always tell the truth. I am not a Trump fan either. I could not vote for him. But he is now President, and has done some good things. His comments about our being murderers too was terrible. But he never really grew up. And, all good Americans should really behind him. And, when he does something, or says something, really stupid, we can feel a little ashamed, yes, but let that not keep us from acknowledging the good he has done. Keep up the fine work, Mona. You have a lot of fans!!!

    • #6
  7. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @

    Mona Charen: President Trump was more right than wrong about Sweden.

    He was completely right.

    People can’t understand plain English now, and require bloviators or interpreters to tell them what he said?  When I finish watching a press conference or other primary source of information from the involved person, I immediately mute and ignore the follow-on bloviation telling me what I just heard.  Crikey!

    • #7
  8. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Mona, I realized NeverTrumping makes for strange bedfellows, but is there really any need to inject Blame America First snark into the question of the effects of massive Muslim immigration into Sweden?

    Among native Swedes, the crime rate is equivalent to Iceland’s. But in immigrant-heavy neighborhoods, lawbreaking is comparable to the much higher overall rate in the US (though not to the high-crime areas of US cities).

    The truth (as opposed to your narrative) is that non-Western immigrants in Sweden are committing nearly 60% of grievous crimes, at rates 600-900% greater than native Swedes.  Of what relevance is the mayhem in South Chicago and Baltimore?  None, I would submit.

    They are influenced, Sanandaji argues, more by American gangsta rap and “The Sopranos” than by the Koran. Sweden has had only one terror attack by a Muslim extremist (who killed only himself), though that, of course, could change at any time.”

    Why quote this with evident approval?  (Sanandaji has books of thoughtful things to quote on the subject).  Do you honestly think the 600-900% higher rates of murder, battery and rape are being caused by Northern New Jersey and Compton.

    That’s risible.

    And why conflate crimes committed by Muslim immigrants with crimes influenced by the Koran.  Talk about a lazy narrative.  Apart from a few specific jihadi crimes which can be connected to the Koran, who believes that the high crime rates of Muslim immigrants are a result of faithful adherence to Islam?

    The facts are clear, even where you pull your punches — full-time employment rate for non-Muslim’s of working age was 25% in 2015, though if “lower still” works for your narrative, use it.

    These are the facts:

    Non-Western immigrants have a 25% full-time employment rate, commit grave crimes at 600-900% higher rates, presently received more than 50% of all unemployment compensation and 60% of all social welfare spending in the most liberal welfare system in the world, and have behaved in droog-like public harassment hordes against women and Jews which has the population censoring their own free movement and increasing the support for far right parties by 600%.

    But it’s all the fault of Tupac and Tony.

    Is it really that hard to say that Trump is right about something?

     

     

    • #8
  9. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Mona,

    Joblessness and alienation have sparked riots and other anti-social behavior. At outdoor festivals like “We Are Stockholm,” women have been groped. Public swimming pools have become venues for gangs of young, immigrant men to harass women. Malmö has been losing its small Jewish population, and the Simon Wiesenthal Center issued a travel warning due to threats and attacks on Jews from Muslim immigrants.

    The image of hordes of immigrants raping Swedish women however, is, to say no more, overheated.

    First, it is still difficult for many well educated people in the West to imagine just how different Islamic Culture is. The assumption that only “joblessness and alienation” sparked the riots is naive. Orchestrated gang rape, gang violence against police, and wanton destruction of property do not paint a picture of people who are just unemployed and alienated. These people are maintained by the best social safety net in Europe and are well fed and well housed. The average Guatemalan illegal in America would envy the living conditions of these “alienated migrants” in Sweden. I have not read anyone on the right claiming “hordes of migrants raping…” this is a straw man argument to smear anyone who brings evidence of problems. The straw man argument is typical of those who can’t bring themselves to believe that there is a more dangerous element to the migrants from the 7 Islamic countries in the current temporary ban.

    Here is an example of that kind of denial coming to its inevitable bad end.

    British Citizen Islamic State Suicide Bomber Was Guantanamo Detainee Paid £1 Million By UK Government

    A British Islamic State suicide bomber was freed from Guantanamo Bay after lobbying by UK’s left-wing government and paid £1 million of taxpayer’s money in compensation.
    On his return to the UK, the then Labour party Home Secretary David Blunkett insisted: “No one who is returned… will actually be a threat to the security of the British people”.

    Ronald Fiddler, known as Abu Zakariya al-Britani, blew himself up near the Iraqi city of Mosul this weekend, in an attack targeting coalition forces containing embedded British and American Special Forces advisers.

    Yes, there aren’t hoards of Islamic terrorists among the migrants either. However, as they would be full Jihadist adherents that are willing to sacrifice their own life to mass murder the totally innocent, it doesn’t take many of these to pose a serious threat.

    If the Islamic community would openly denounce Jihad and separate itself completely from this doctrine then one could rest much easier and consider it a social/police problem. However, this is not the case. If the Jihadist can swim in his community of sympathizers and be aided by useful idiots in the governments of the hated infidels then the Jihadist will kill sooner or later.

    Self defense is no crime either for an individual or for a Nation.

    Regards,

    Jim

     

    • #9
  10. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Kozak (View Comment):
    Found this interesting.

    The left’s explanation that poverty causes crime reminds me of “wet streets cause rain.” As explained in the video, the causality runs the other way. That explanation is not in the left’s interest since it does not support massive government redistribution.

    • #10
  11. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Is it really that hard to say that Trump is right about something?

    For some folks it’s well-nigh impossible. Good effort though, Ms. Charen.

    • #11
  12. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Mona Charen: Malmö has been losing its small Jewish population, and the Simon Wiesenthal Center issued a travel warning due to threats and attacks on Jews from Muslim immigrants.

    Mona Charen: Some 17 percent of Swedes are foreign born, but only 3 to 5 percent identify as Muslim.

    It’s not just Malmo. If 3 to 5 percent means open season on Jews in Sweden’s major cities, that’s hardly promising.

    • #12
  13. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Mona, Denmark has rape laws virtually identical to Sweden, but a much more realistic view of immigration in general and Muslim “refugees” in particular. Rape per 100,000 in Denmark = 7.2, in Sweden = 59.7. Between 95 and 100% [100%!] of those imprisoned for rape in Sweden in the last two decades have been Muslim men. They are not incarcerated for ripping a condom twice. If I were a poor young Muslim man, with all the available women taken by richer, older men for their collections, I would find it much more fun to go grope a frauline in Europe than fight for my country back home.

    • #13
  14. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Also, for those who picture blonde Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    Do you have any citations to back this up? My understanding is that Muslim “youths” are very respectful of Muslim women, they focus their aggression on infidels as in Rotherham.

    • #14
  15. Eb Snider Member
    Eb Snider
    @EbSnider

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    I think it is easy to over estimate the ideals of most immigrants to America. Convenience and opportunity are the biggest drivers, though the mythology of America as a land of the free is far more universal.

    Yes. I think that’s a valid point. With attitudes of certain recent immigrants to the USA I believe the “American values” or wanting to become “an American” are much lesser relevance than thought versus purely economic reasons and what you stated. This leads to a rather thorny aspect of the immigration discussion because Americans, or rather any domestic population including Sweden have a certain cultural self view. On the economic front it’s probably easier for an immigrant going to the USA vs Sweden because the US has a much bigger demand for low skilled labor and entry level jobs. Sweden has very high wages and my understanding stricter union representation and labor contracts. So getting work might be more difficult. Sweden might me socially more rigid in certain ways too.

     

    • #15
  16. Eb Snider Member
    Eb Snider
    @EbSnider

    Mona Charen:it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

     

    I’m glad you made this point. Because it’s an issue that’s been brought up before in relation to ghettos where segregated populations sometimes differ from the native population at large. The new nation’s laws and customs should be observed when it comes to protecting women. I don’t follow the point of view of turning a blind eye to victims who are of a different culture or race than one’s own country majority and chalking it up to “diversity” or “multiculturalism”. The same Law should apply to everyone. Adopting western countries have an obligation to protect recent immigrants too according to the adopting country’s Law, and not be bashful about it.

    • #16
  17. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    Editor Note:

    Personal attack.

    You just CAN’T really admit that Trump was right without jumping to the Nazi meme, can ya?  Love your last para about the rise of the covert Nazi party in Sweden!

    The fact is, people can be anti-immigration, or at least,  anti-uncontrolled immigration, without being a Nazi.  Lots of us are.   The majority of us are.  (If you take out the millions of illegals who voted in Calif.)

    But hey–baby steps!  [Redacted]; we can’t expect you to stay on that level for too long!

    • #17
  18. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    Also, for those who picture blonde Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    Do you have any citations to back this up? My understanding is that Muslim “youths” are very respectful of Muslim women, they focus their aggression on infidels as in Rotherham.

    Plus: (1) the Muslim women seem less likely to file charges, given that this can get them stoned or lashed for adultery; (2) with whom would they file charges in their no-go area?

    • #18
  19. Ryan M(cPherson) Inactive
    Ryan M(cPherson)
    @RyanM

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Mona, I realized NeverTrumping makes for strange bedfellows, but is there really any need to inject Blame America First snark into the question of the effects of massive Muslim immigration into Sweden?

    They are influenced, Sanandaji argues, more by American gangsta rap and “The Sopranos” than by the Koran. Sweden has had only one terror attack by a Muslim extremist (who killed only himself), though that, of course, could change at any time.”

    Why quote this with evident approval? (Sanandaji has books of thoughtful things to quote on the subject). Do you honestly think the 600-900% higher rates of murder, battery and rape are being caused by Northern New Jersey and Compton.

    That’s risible.

    And why conflate crimes committed by Muslim immigrants with crimes influenced by the Koran. Talk about a lazy narrative. Apart from a few specific jihadi crimes which can be connected to the Koran, who believes that the high crime rates of Muslim immigrants are a result of faithful adherence to Islam?

    The facts are clear, even where you pull your punches — full-time employment rate for non-Muslim’s of working age was 25% in 2015, though if “lower still” works for your narrative, use it.

    These are the facts:

    But it’s all the fault of Tupac and Tony.

    Is it really that hard to say that Trump is right about something?

    See my comment #1. Mona is quoting another author, who makes an interesting point.

    • #19
  20. Ryan M(cPherson) Inactive
    Ryan M(cPherson)
    @RyanM

    Hypatia (View Comment):
    You just CAN’T really admit that Trump was right without jumping to the Nazi meme, can ya? Love your last para about the rise of the covert Nazi party in Sweden!

    The fact is, people can be anti-immigration, or at least, anti-uncontrolled immigration, without being a Nazi. Lots of us are. The majority of us are. (If you take out the millions of illegals who voted in Calif.)

    But hey–baby steps! [Redacted]; we can’t expect you to stay on that level for too long!

    Good grief, what in the hell are you talking about? This rant has absolutely nothing to do with the points raised in the OP.

    • #20
  21. Ryan M(cPherson) Inactive
    Ryan M(cPherson)
    @RyanM

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    Also, for those who picture blonde Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    Do you have any citations to back this up? My understanding is that Muslim “youths” are very respectful of Muslim women, they focus their aggression on infidels as in Rotherham.

    Respectful of all Muslim women? I wonder if it might be very different with regards to apostate or non-religious Arab women.

    • #21
  22. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Eb Snider (View Comment):

    Mona Charen:it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    I’m glad you made this point. Because it’s an issue that’s been brought up before in relation to ghettos where segregated populations sometimes differ from the native population at large. The new nation’s laws and customs should be observed when it comes to protecting women. I don’t follow the point of view of turning a blind eye to victims who are of a different culture or race than one’s own country majority and chalking it up to “diversity” or “multiculturalism”. The same Law should apply to everyone. Adopting western countries have an obligation to protect recent immigrants too according to the adopting country’s Law, and not be bashful about it.

    Yes, this is truly a pathetic line to take, isn’t it?

    Why is it important to stress this, Mona?

    • #22
  23. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Ryan M(cPherson) (View Comment):

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    Also, for those who picture blonde Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    Do you have any citations to back this up? My understanding is that Muslim “youths” are very respectful of Muslim women, they focus their aggression on infidels as in Rotherham.

    Respectful of all Muslim women? I wonder if it might be very different with regards to apostate or non-religious Arab women.

    Read some of the commentary on what happens when a refugee is found out to be Christian in one of the camps or hostels – I fully support the idea that they be given priority if anyone is to be considered for asylum in the West.

    • #23
  24. JcTPatriot Member
    JcTPatriot
    @

    Mona Charen:Sweden offers many lessons, but the most critical is: Seek the truth, not a narrative.

    Mona, your problem is you sit watching CNN and expect them to tell you the truth about the “Religion Of Peace”. This will never happen. Sweden is very much like Germany now; the government must keep the Muslim attacks on their citizens quiet, or their citizens will rebel and drive them out of office, as they are doing elsewhere. So they order their police to not report the ethnicity of the attackers, and this makes the uptick in assaults look like random violence. Nothing to see here, move along.

    Mona, you become more and more Leftist every day. Blaming these assaults (sexual and otherwise) on Sweden as it “de-industrializes” insults the intelligence of everyone reading your column. Next you’ll be telling us the sexual assaults and rapes are happening because the Swedish women won’t wear headscarves. Stop it. Come back to the right, open your eyes, and stop pretending.

    • #24
  25. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    The result has been the rise of the Swedish Democrats, a party whose bland name conceals a Nazi past. The party earned only 3 percent support in 2010. Today it is pushing 18 percent.

    Franklin Roosevelt fought ferociously against an anti-lynching law during his time as President. Should that discredit today’s Dems? [don’t answer that Ricochetti.] I understand those that are tired of being goose-stepped to multicultural diversity might have to turn to the heirs of Le Pen or neo-Nazis for a party structure, it shouldn’t negate their present day arguments when no one else in the nomenklatura will give them a platform.

     

    • #25
  26. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    The result has been the rise of the Swedish Democrats, a party whose bland name conceals a Nazi past. The party earned only 3 percent support in 2010. Today it is pushing 18 percent.

    Franklin Roosevelt fought ferociously against an anti-lynching law during his time as President. Should that discredit today’s Dems? [don’t answer that Ricochetti.] I understand those that are tired of being goose-stepped to multicultural diversity might have to turn to the heirs of Le Pen or neo-Nazis for a party structure, it shouldn’t negate their present day arguments when no one else in the nomenklatura will give them a platform.

    None of the “main stream” parties in Sweden will deal with this honestly, just like here on the topic they become the Uniparty. Of course the result is people will  turn in desperation to those who will.

    • #26
  27. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Mona Charen: The image of hordes of immigrants raping Swedish women however, is, to say no more, overheated. Getting good statistics on rape in Sweden is difficult. On one hand, the government, in obedience to feminist dictates, has broadened the definition of rape very considerably to include many things that most Americans would not consider rape. Julian Assange, for example, for whom I have no sympathy in general, apparently ripped a condom in an otherwise consensual encounter (well, twice) and hides in the Ecuadorian embassy to evade rape charges.

    How is a broke condom a rape charge for the male and not the female? Surely both would be guilty of rape or neither?

    • #27
  28. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    JcTPatriot (View Comment):
    Mona, your problem is you sit watching CNN and expect them to tell you the truth about the “Religion Of Peace”.

    I don’t believe Mona gets a lot of her information from cable TV news, unlike certain Presidents of the United States.

    • #28
  29. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    I miss the fact Mona used to join in and mix it up with us. I guess the bitterness of the last few months has made her more judicious in her use of her time.

    • #29
  30. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    I miss the fact Mona used to join in and mix it up with us. I guess the bitterness of the last few months has made her more judicious in her use of her time.

    She still might. It might be that someone needs to say something witty or provocative.

    You first. I got nuthin’.

    • #30
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