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The War With and Within Islam

 

I keep hearing the press refer to the countries that are subject to the lull in immigration as “predominately Muslim” or “majority Muslim.” They are much more than that. With the exception of Iran, they are each in the midst of unrest that can only be characterized as civil war – Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. And these are not just “majority Muslim” countries. To the extent that one can describe the form of government employed by whatever current gangs claim authority in these countries, including Iran, they are not monarchies, republics or democracies. They aren’t even true thugocracies. They are totalitarian theocracies ruled by fiat and a few self-appointed clerics and their acolytes. Sharia law, the religious law of Islam, is the official law of these lands. It is informed, even instigated by Ayatollahs and Imams, Mullahs and Muftis and it is enforced by Islam, by tradition; that is by the mob.

The civil unrest and war results directly from Islam; that is the various and different local interpretations of Islam, the Shia Ja’fari and within the Sunni, the Wahhabi, Salafi, Hanafi and Maliki, all purporting to be the true Islam. Clannish tribal traditions further complicate the various rivalries. Brutal readings of the Koran and sacred texts leave little to no room to tolerate alternative interpretation. There is but one penalty for apostasy or refusal to submit to the interpretations of the subject sect: death. There is a reason why Islam has such a bloody and brutal history.

Our only consolation is the fact that, as much as these clerics hate the America (and Israel) they cannot help but turn on rival Islamic clans and factions first. The Islamic tradition of fratricide and patricide has continued for 10 centuries; this is how it has always been except that now, with money oozing from the very ground beneath their feet, some have commandeered the resources to obtain the weapons of war necessary to effectively impose their particular will on a massive scale.

In fact, most majority Muslim countries are sharia theocracies, even those 40 some odd majority Muslim countries not on the “no-entry” list. Some may have presumably republican governments or monarchies, however make no mistake, merciless Sharia is the law of the land. Those in power know how close that they are to sectarian war. The ruling classes have formed a nervous pact with local Mullahs, Muftis, and Imams in exchange for a loose grip on power and money. They fully understand the tenuous hold they have and greatly fear that unrest, no chaos, will cross their borders.

This terror war is indeed with and within Islam. The countries on the no entry list are at war among themselves and with us. If we really do not know who the asylum seekers are, inviting them to our country is suicidal. They come from a kind of hell. Some will want to bring it here with them.

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Members have made 34 comments.

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  1. Profile photo of JL Inactive
    JL

    Eh, I would more fault the tribalism of the Mideast than Islam. Protestantism and Catholicism have broken out periodically into factional warfare — especially when thrust together in close proximity — like the century long conflict or “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland. I dunno, I dated a Filipina Muslim girl in High School and their family was as nice as everyone else. Radicalization is definitely a problem, but I’m not so sure that castigating the entire faith as violent is justified. Especially when weighing history. When Christians burned the knowledge of antiquity throughout the Byzantines, the Ibn scholars were given the secrets of Europe and curated them for years and returned them after requested.

    I’m Mr. Religious Tolerance though. Thomas Jefferson has some interesting thoughts on Islam and the Quran. (he had a weird religion btw. Believed God was a Clockmaker, who designed the universe, wound it up, and left once it was in motion)

    • #1
    • January 31, 2017 at 3:49 pm
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  2. Profile photo of Doug Kimball Member
    Doug Kimball Post author

    JLocked (View Comment):
    Eh, I would more fault the tribalism of the Mideast than Islam. Protestantism and Catholicism have broken out periodically into factional warfare — especially when thrust together in close proximity — like the century long conflict or “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland. I dunno, I dated a Filipina Muslim girl in High School and their family was as nice as everyone else. Radicalization is definitely a problem, but I’m not so sure that castigating the entire faith as violent is justified. Especially when weighing history. When Christians burned the knowledge of antiquity throughout the Byzantines, the Ibn scholars were given the secrets of Europe and curated them for years and returned them after requested.

    I’m Mr. Religious Tolerance though. Thomas Jefferson has some interesting thoughts on Islam and the Quran. (he had a weird religion btw. Believed God was a Clockmaker, who designed the universe, wound it up, and left once it was in motion)

    I would be more optimistic if there was any room at all within the Islamic countries for tolerance of republican democracy and plurality, but there doesn’t seem to be. There has been a return to hard core Islam, with all its brutality. That’s not to say that there are not peaceful, tolerant Muslims. Most people desire peace and tolerance. But that’s not what is being preached and taught in the madrassas and mosques. And they, with their acolytes, enforce their brutal law.

    How do we change that?

    • #2
    • January 31, 2017 at 3:58 pm
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  3. Profile photo of Bryan G. Stephens Reagan

    Doug Kimball: This terror war is indeed with and within Islam. The countries on the no entry list are at war among themselves and with us. If we really do not know who the asylum seekers are, inviting them to our country is suicidal. They come from a kind of hell. Some will want to bring it here with them.

    I agree with this 100%.

    • #3
    • January 31, 2017 at 4:08 pm
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  4. Profile photo of Publius Thatcher

    Doug Kimball: I keep hearing the press refer to the countries that are subject to the lull in immigration as “predominately Muslim” or “majority Muslim.”

    If this is a sub rosa ban on Muslims, the Trump administration screwed it up pretty impressively since they didn’t include nations such as Bangladesh, Brunei, Mauritania, Tunisia, Morocco, Pakistan, Kosovo, Indonesia, and a whole host of other countries that have majority muslim populations in the short temporary immigration pause.

    • #4
    • January 31, 2017 at 4:10 pm
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  5. Profile photo of Scott Wilmot Member

    Doug Kimball: Brutal readings of the Koran and sacred texts leave little to no room to tolerate alternative interpretation.

    With your use of the word brutal, I assume you mean unsparing, direct, and straightforward – although Islam is brutal in the sense of the origin of that word (savagely violent, relating to the lower animals).

    Islam sees Allah as pure will: voluntas, whereas Christianity sees God as logos: reason. When Pope Benedict XVI tried to point this out, Islam reacted as one might expect – with violence.

    Christians believe that reason cannot contradict reason. Yet Muslims believe that the will of Allah could affirm one thing today and its opposite tomorrow, all within the laws of nature.

    Islam, as revealed in the Koran and Hadith is incompatible with the US Constitution and our western values. We deceive ourselves if we believe otherwise.

    • #5
    • January 31, 2017 at 4:22 pm
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  6. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    Islam sees Allah as pure will: voluntas, whereas Christianity sees God as logos: reason.

    Islam began with the conquests of a bandit. Christianity began with a Creator who washed the feet of his disciples and suffers for them.

    Martyrdom in Islam means killing for the faith. Martyrdom in Christianity means dying for the faith.

    An Islamic extremist is called a terrorist and slaughters people. A Christian extremist is called a saint and serves people.

    Islam was always political. Christianity was initially persecuted and only forced into government when an empire collapsed centuries later.

    They are not equivalent.

    • #6
    • January 31, 2017 at 4:39 pm
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  7. Profile photo of Blondie Thatcher

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    Islam sees Allah as pure will: voluntas, whereas Christianity sees God as logos: reason.

    Islam began with the conquests of a bandit. Christianity began with a Creator who washed the feet of his disciples and suffers for them.

    Martyrdom in Islam means killing for the faith. Martyrdom in Christianity means dying for the faith.

    An Islamic extremist is called a terrorist and slaughters people. A Christian extremist is called a saint and serves people.

    Islam was always political. Christianity was initially persecuted and only forced into government when an empire collapsed centuries later.

    They are not equivalent.

    Well said, Aaron.

    • #7
    • January 31, 2017 at 4:52 pm
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  8. Profile photo of DocJay Member

    Are their women roughly equal? No. OK, you can’t come in.

    • #8
    • January 31, 2017 at 5:30 pm
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  9. Profile photo of Bryan G. Stephens Reagan

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    Islam sees Allah as pure will: voluntas, whereas Christianity sees God as logos: reason.

    Islam began with the conquests of a bandit. Christianity began with a Creator who washed the feet of his disciples and suffers for them.

    Martyrdom in Islam means killing for the faith. Martyrdom in Christianity means dying for the faith.

    An Islamic extremist is called a terrorist and slaughters people. A Christian extremist is called a saint and serves people.

    Islam was always political. Christianity was initially persecuted and only forced into government when an empire collapsed centuries later.

    They are not equivalent.

    Islam is a false faith to a Christian. There are to be no more prophets after Christ.

    • #9
    • January 31, 2017 at 5:36 pm
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  10. Profile photo of PHCheese Member

    JLocked (View Comment):
    Eh, I would more fault the tribalism of the Mideast than Islam. Protestantism and Catholicism have broken out periodically into factional warfare — especially when thrust together in close proximity — like the century long conflict or “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland. I dunno, I dated a Filipina Muslim girl in High School and their family was as nice as everyone else. Radicalization is definitely a problem, but I’m not so sure that castigating the entire faith as violent is justified. Especially when weighing history. When Christians burned the knowledge of antiquity throughout the Byzantines, the Ibn scholars were given the secrets of Europe and curated them for years and returned them after requested.

    I’m Mr. Religious Tolerance though. Thomas Jefferson has some interesting thoughts on Islam and the Quran. (he had a weird religion btw. Believed God was a Clockmaker, who designed the universe, wound it up, and left once it was in motion)

    The Troubles in Ireland were not religious.

    • #10
    • January 31, 2017 at 5:50 pm
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  11. Profile photo of JL Inactive
    JL

    Christianity and Islam have the most fraternal relationship in the Abrahamic faiths. Jesus is a venerated figure in the Quran. The sectional divide between Shiites and Sunnis was more about establishing a royal blood line as descendants from Muhammad. Unfortunately, the Mideast is pretty friggin screwed up. That does not represent the vast amount of Islam. Y’all know Indonesia has the most muslims right? And their faith is syncreticized with Buddhism. Many sects across the Silk Road practice a Muslim/Buddhist/Zoroastrian hybrid.

    And as for seeking Democracy — don’t forget Arab Spring. An abysmal failure on our part to intercede and help those people try to make Iran and Egypt Democratic.

    • #11
    • January 31, 2017 at 6:34 pm
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  12. Profile photo of Zafar Member

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Troubles in Ireland were not religious.

    Indeed, they were tribal.

    As were, imho, the wars of religion, the crusades, and most jihads.

    • #12
    • January 31, 2017 at 6:34 pm
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  13. Profile photo of JL Inactive
    JL

    Zafar (View Comment):

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Troubles in Ireland were not religious.

    Indeed, they were tribal.

    As were, imho, the wars of religion, the crusades, and most jihads.

    Lol it was protestants and Catholics fighting! Same thing — tribal conflict dictated through religion!

    • #13
    • January 31, 2017 at 6:39 pm
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  14. Profile photo of Nanda Panjandrum Thatcher

    JLocked (View Comment):
    (he had a weird religion btw. Believed God was a Clockmaker, who designed the universe, wound it up, and left once it was in motion)

    Deism, JL, you’re welcome!

    • #14
    • January 31, 2017 at 7:04 pm
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  15. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    I’m watching Steyn about the “Muslim ban” hysteria. He points out that since 9-11 the US accepts twice the number of Muslims annually. That’s 300,000 per year… which means the equivalent of the entire population of Vermont every two years.

    JLocked (View Comment):
    Jesus is a venerated figure in the Quran.

    There’s a world of difference between saying Jesus was a teacher and saying he is the Son of God, Savior, King of kings, Creator, etc.

    And the Koran does not merely build upon Jewish and Christian stories. It changes them, claiming that we corrupted them.

    Indonesia is a member of the OIC, an organization which advocates the slaughter of Jews and outlawing any criticism of Islam.

    • #15
    • January 31, 2017 at 7:22 pm
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  16. Profile photo of Zafar Member

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Indonesia is a member of the OIC, an organization which advocates the slaughter of Jews….

    ??

    when someone as usually calm as Aaron Miller says stuff like:

    “Martyrdom in Islam means killing for the faith.”

    And seems to believe that it’s true, and nobody else even questions whether the words make sense or not, it make me worry that something irrational – or even anti-rational – is afoot on Ricochet .

    • #16
    • January 31, 2017 at 8:26 pm
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  17. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Though not all celebrated martyrs of Islam died in battle, that is the normal model and has been since Islam’s inception. Am I mistaken?

    Some Christian martyrs also died in battle. But the normal model is someone being tortured and executed after merely voicing one’s beliefs. So our earliest saints died.

    Do you disagree, Zafar, that the OIC has a habit of anti-Semitic statements?

    • #17
    • January 31, 2017 at 11:10 pm
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  18. Profile photo of Zafar Member

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    Though not all celebrated martyrs of Islam died in battle, that is the normal model and has been since Islam’s inception. Am I mistaken?

    Do you disagree, Zafar, that the OIC has a habit of anti-Semitic statements?

    Are you moving the goalposts, o excellent one?

    Being killed in battle is not the same as killing in battle. The one (might) make you a martyr, the other would martyr the other guy.

    As for the OIC – which specific call for the slaughter of Jews are you referring to? Is there one? You’re the one who used the word slaughter – hence I ask.

    Now you are a level headed person, as far as I can see, and not usually given to this kind of hyperbole – so when (even) you engage in it, I have to wonder what’s up.

    Do you believe what you wrote? And if so, based on what?

    That’s where my concern about rationality comes in – for if all who disagree with me must hate me and if all who hate me must want to kill me then why killing those who disagree with me is clearly justified self defense, no more.

    • #18
    • January 31, 2017 at 11:49 pm
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  19. Profile photo of JL Inactive
    JL

    A difficult issue indeed. My apologies for stepping on Doug’s post. Interestingly, this video popped up in my feed and brokers the issue from a comedic view. Aziz Ansari, who I believe is an Indian Tamil Muslim (lots of syncreticism there as well) provides a humorous perspective (while I managed to link straight to the joke, my apologies for the Liberal grandstanding at the end of the video).

    God Bless you all. As a Christian, I recognize this isn’t an issue of hatred but concern of personal and familial safety.

    • #19
    • February 1, 2017 at 12:50 am
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  20. Profile photo of I Walton Member

    JLocked (View Comment):

    Yes it took Europeans quite a few centuries to absorb Christianity. As they took it seriously rather than allowing competing elites to use it against each other the west evolved toward representative governance and individual freedom. This is unlikely to have happened without Judeo Christian beliefs. They grew together and it wasn’t until nihilism in various forms took root in our intellectual class and then our culture that the west descended into barbarism. As one takes Islam more seriously it takes persons away from freedom, the rule of law, toleration and decentralized governance. As they become more secular they become more compatible with these western foundations.

    • #20
    • February 1, 2017 at 4:59 am
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  21. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Zafar (View Comment):
    Being killed in battle is not the same as killing in battle.

    Granted. But as the norm of Muslim martyrdom, the setting demonstrates a martial focus. Again, the religion’s ultimate role model (in Sunni, Shia, and any other variation) — Mohammed — spread the faith by force. So to do likewise cannot be condemned by honestly citing the faith.

    Zafar (View Comment):
    As for the OIC – which specific call for the slaughter of Jews are you referring to? Is there one? You’re the one who used the word slaughter – hence I ask.

    Fair enough. I’ll come back with quotes.

    Zafar (View Comment):
    That’s where my concern about rationality comes in – for if all who disagree with me must hate me and if all who hate me must want to kill me then why killing those who disagree with me is clearly justified self defense, no more.

    I’m not sure where this idea comes from. I treat Muslims the same as I treat Democrats, which is to say welcome neighbors who cling to a poisonous ideology, most without deep understanding or self-awareness (the norm in any religion or worldview). I condemn their ideas.

    I have often compared Islam to communism, an idea to be defeated. We do not invite communists to become citizens, but we do tolerate native citizens who subscribe to it. I don’t want to kill all Muslims just as I don’t want to kill all Russians or Chinese.

    • #21
    • February 1, 2017 at 7:45 am
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  22. Profile photo of PHCheese Member

    JLocked (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    PHCheese (View Comment):

    The Troubles in Ireland were not religious.

    Indeed, they were tribal.

    As were, imho, the wars of religion, the crusades, and most jihads.

    Lol it was protestants and Catholics fighting! Same thing — tribal conflict dictated through religion!

    The Catholics and Protestants were for sure fighting in N.Ireland while living very peacefully in Ireland. Catholics were for independence from England while Protestantism were not. Either could have been of any religion with the same result. Their religious beliefs were an accident of history not a cause. It’s like two football teams fighting over wearing different uniforms, no it’s each team trying to win. In one case Independence the other remaining with the Crown.

    • #22
    • February 1, 2017 at 8:01 am
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  23. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Zafar (View Comment):
    As for the OIC – which specific call for the slaughter of Jews are you referring to?

    I have not been able to find an example, so perhaps I was conflating the OIC statements with those of its most prominent member states like Iran. The OIC, like our Democrat party, speaks one way and acts another. Separately, it’s members are more explicit.

    Saudi Arabia continues to promote anti-Semitic literature, encouraging of violence against all infidels, around the world. Here is a PDF with details. Saudis control most of Islam’s holiest sites where hatred of Jews and Christians is regularly expressed without objection from officials. Qatar and other OIC members also teach their children to hate Jews and dominate infidels.

    The OIC Secretary General once praised Hamas. The group denies Palestinian terrorism while regularly condemning Israel and including Muslim control of Jerusalem among its core goals. Another of its expressed goals is imposition of Islamic law worldwide.

    In 2003, the Malaysian prime minister received ample applause at an OIC meeting after claiming “today the Jews rule the world by proxy.”

    The OIC is the largest international body except for the UN, which members flood with condemnations of Israel, proposals to outlaw criticism of Islam, with blindness to any of the atrocities performed by Muslims. When the leader of Sudan was butchering his people, there was no complaint.

    • #23
    • February 1, 2017 at 9:53 am
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  24. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Mark Steyn said recently that the only major difference between Saudi Arabia and ISIS is the former’s recognition as a sovereign state. They too slaughter any infidel who will not submit to the jizya tax. They kill gays simply for existing.

    And we treat the country like an ally. At best, we occasionally share common interests like containment of Iran.

    • #24
    • February 1, 2017 at 9:55 am
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  25. Profile photo of Bryan G. Stephens Reagan

    To a Christian, Islam is a false religion founded by a false prophet. To Islam, Christians are mistaken about the nature of God.

    • #25
    • February 1, 2017 at 10:02 am
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  26. Profile photo of Podkayne of Israel Member

    DocJay (View Comment):
    Are their women roughly equal? No. OK, you can’t come in.

    https://youtu.be/FJ6SstTS4YY

    • #26
    • February 1, 2017 at 11:24 am
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  27. Profile photo of fidelio102 Coolidge

    Scott Wilmot (View Comment):
    Islam, as revealed in the Koran and Hadith is incompatible with the US Constitution and our western values. We deceive ourselves if we believe otherwise.

    This is the key statement, one I have been pushing around the Twitterverse (obviously without much success except for the applause from those who think as I do).

    Immigrants to any country should undertake to abide by the values and customs of their hosts.

    This is why Britain has been successfully assimilating immigrants for centuries…until now. The same goes for the US, Canada and many other welcoming nations.

    • #27
    • February 1, 2017 at 12:52 pm
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  28. Profile photo of Nanda Panjandrum Thatcher

    The lack of a central governing authority for doctrine, the interwoven tribal mores make for a thorny path to reform, indeed. My retired military priest-chaplain, current pastor (who served and was wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan) suggests that the internalizing/personalizing of concepts like jihad – which I’ve encountered as a hospital chaplain – happens more when Muslims live/work with, or near Christians. Admittedly, my data is 20 years old, but I still hold out hope.  

    • #28
    • February 1, 2017 at 1:30 pm
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  29. Profile photo of Zafar Member

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):
    As for the OIC – which specific call for the slaughter of Jews are you referring to?

    I have not been able to find an example, so perhaps I was conflating the OIC statements with those of its most prominent member states like Iran.

    About slaughtering Jews? When? Give me a recent reference.

    Otherwise I suspect that your recollection of reality is being confused by your fears and assumptions.

    From memory the last time the Supreme Leader tweeted a list of ten points to destroy Israel (the way one does, I guess) one of them was specifically that this would not involve a slaughter of people.

    This is still the country which still has the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East.

    Conflating one’s feelings with facts is a universal human tendency – one needs to reality check these beliefs.

    • #29
    • February 1, 2017 at 1:56 pm
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  30. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Zafar (View Comment):
    This is still the country which still has the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East.

    Iran? Iranian Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians together comprise 0.3% of the population. But you’re right, it’s only dhimmitude and not annihilation!

    Shouting “Death to Israel! Death to America!” is how one celebrates a national holiday in Iran. Khamanei calls it diplomacy.

    Perhaps Iran’s Jews would prefer the growing Muslim neighborhoods in Europe. Jews must be leaving Europe because they are bored of the sights, right?

    In Indonesia, Pew Research estimates that only 74% of people have an “unfavorable” opinion of Jews. Nearly everybody in Jordan and Egypt, America’s old friends, dislikes Jews.

    But you’re right, I must have overstated the case. If the heads of state in Islamic nations have called for genocide recently, I’m not finding quotes. They might deny the Holocaust in Lebanon or Saudi Arabia, but at least it’s only Israel they want wiped off the map.

    • #30
    • February 1, 2017 at 3:54 pm
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