A Boy Named Lucia

 

15420922_10154208922519072_7420073817290444484_nEvery year around this time, Sweden celebrates the feast of Saint Lucia, a Christian martyr who according to legend brought aid to persecuted Christians in the dead of night, her head adorned by a candle-lit wreath. This is commemorated yearly by a reenactment, usually performed by children, carrying candles and singing Christian songs.

Most major Swedish companies do their best to capitalize on this cutesy tradition, but this year Åhlens, one of the largest department store-chains in the country, decided to go above and beyond the traditional and the ordinary. On the cover of the Christmas edition of their company magazine as well as their website, they chose to use a young black boy as the Lucia-model, dressed in the traditional gown and wreath, and the internet lost its collective mind. The comments ranged from “this is genocide on white people” and “A disgusting affront on Nordic tradition” to the more blunt “You make me puke.” Just a few days after the picture was published it had to be taken down after the boy’s mother asked the company to protect the boy from what ended up being a racist hate-storm.

The brunt of the criticism toward the company was focused on two factors: that there was a boy in a traditionally female role and that the boy was black, whereas the Swedish Lucia-procession traditionally features blond and blue-eyed children.

I wrote about this on my Facebook page, which is a highly homogeneous place, made up of 90 percent conservatives and 10 percent libertarians, and the comments I got made me question the direction the conservative movement is taking. My Facebook friends were upset, or rather offended, that this Christian tradition had been hijacked by “gender-bending leftists,” and the language they used in the debate that followed reminded me of the worst of the others on the other side.

A large chunk were feeling “victimized,” others said that poking fun at Christian traditions should be penalized, and some were saying that this meant that Europe was giving in to cultural relativism.

Let’s walk this back and look at the actual issue.

A young black boy in a dress, representing an old Swedish tradition. From a religious standpoint this is not offensive, as the specific tradition of the procession is modern and doesn’t have Christian roots, therefore the company’s interpretation is a version of a version and not an affront on the origin story. From a political standpoint this is excellent, because what we want is for immigrants to embrace our traditions and participate, and the boy is a representation of that. It is the opposite of putting a blond woman in a hijab, and that should be applauded rather than objected. As for the dress. Well, it’s a five-year-old in a dress, not a statement on transgender issues. Let’s relax about 300 percent.

And finally: This is a private company, not the state, and as conservatives we need to not be calling for intervention in private enterprises, but accept their right the offend whatever sensibilities we have.

This debate is not the first recent example of conservatives adopting the left’s language of victimhood and triggers. Leading up to, during, and after this election we have seen movement on our side toward the progressive paradigm of “if it’s not my thing, it needs to be outlawed” and this goes against the conservative grain and is an insult to our entire movement.

Will a boy in a dress really overthrow our civilization? Is that really our fight? Here I thought we were wise enough to let them occupy streets and have vigils over democratic elections while we actually run things, but lately it seems we are stooping to their level and being beaten by experience.

It’s a boy in a dress, now let’s all relax. The left works in micro, we work in macro, and this obsession with detail and “issues” is a dangerous step toward an anti-ideological society where no one has beliefs but everyone has opinions, and it is up to us to stem that tide.

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  1. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Valiuth:

    Franco:What is the purpose of this one should ask. Why did they do this? What’s the point?

    It’s blatant tradition-busting for attention. And if you object, you’re raaaaacist!

    I don’t know, traditions are always busted up by time and cultural preference, but not necessarily in a bad way. I think over reacting to it is probably more harmful than the actual act itself. Which probably hinged on some market testing of which cute kid got more people into the store.

    No, you don’t know, wink, wink. Traditions morph but they normally aren’t broken, and if they are broken, it’s deliberate. This was deliberate. I doubt they really thought the ‘cute kid’ would bring more people into the store vs. this blatant re-casting of a traditional figure. They knew there would be objections, and they had to know that some people would make over-the-top, vile comments. It’s the internet. Actors get death threats for badly depicting science fiction characters!

    Then after this marketing ploy rolls out and they get all this attention, they can act shocked, shocked, that there are those who would hurl invective in the comment section.

    People will over-react.There’s nothing anyone can do about it. Maybe one in a thousand ‘took the bait’ but that’s all they need to craft their story. Overreacting may well be more harmful somehow, but it is inevitable. So who is at fault here?

    • #31
  2. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Kate Braestrup: Well, there is that possibility. Or, they could be earnestly and honestly celebrating that there are little brown Swedish kids nowadays;

    Are they “Swedish”? What does that mean exactly? Will these folks refer to themselves as Swedes? I doubt it. Highly. What does being Swedish mean? Your passport, your citizenship? Your heritage? Your race? Your ancestry?

    This statement shows a profound lack of understanding of how third world migrants see themselves and others. They are tribal and have their own traditions. They don’t need Swedish traditions, or to be incorporated after-the-fact into the dominant cultures traditions by an ad agency. They don’t see, and will not see for a very long time, the idea of inclusion and homogeneous culture. They are for the most part working hard at maintaining their culture in the foreign land they inhabit.

    I would expect many immigrants to actually object to this appropriation, as though these people lacked traditions of their own. It’s furthermore condescending -the idea that one needs to see their own race depicted to fully embrace the tradition.  Speaking of which, if the reverse was attempted, I’m sure there would be objections, maybe even violence, and scholars would call it “Cultural Appropriation”.

     

    Kate Braestrup: ….Or both. But if it is the former, why take the bait? Why not say “ah, little brown St. Lucia—sweet!”

    Someone will always take the bait. To highlight and disseminate those vile comments is despicable.

     

    • #32
  3. KC Mulville Inactive
    KC Mulville
    @KCMulville

    My first reaction is that this is like staging a version of Hamlet in the nude. The problem is that instead of communicating all the wonderful thoughts and ideas and meanings of Shakespeare, the nudity becomes the message, rather than the play itself.

    Here, the laudatory story of St. Lucia has been pushed to the back burner in order to make a somewhat pedestrian comment about … what? The usual “inclusiveness” stuff? Yawn.

    What’s more, the story of St. Lucia is about a heroic woman who helped Christians during a time of persecution. It’s a story about counter-culture – going against the ruling class or popular sentiment. But changing the story to emphasize the dominant values of secular culture is going 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

    Should they be legally allowed to do it? Sure. But it just shows that they don’t grasp the meaning of the play and have substituted their own meaning instead.

     

    • #33
  4. yoyomama Inactive
    yoyomama
    @yoyomama

    Arizona Patriot:I think that conservatives are very sensitive to overt departures from traditional gender roles, for very good reason.

    Using a black boy to represent a white woman seems bizarre to me. What’s next? Jon Stewart as the Virgin Mary?

     

    I think there’s a big difference between using a boy to represent St. Lucia and choosing a female of whatever race to represent her.  After all, Lucia was Sicilian, not Swedish, so they’re already not representing her in a racially/ethnically accurate way.  The church that calls itself catholic (i.e., universal) consciously doesn’t limit the appreciation or depiction of saints to their native lands.  A couple years ago at our parish the “St. Nicholas” who visited to hand out candy to the children was half-Taiwanese, half-Palestinian.  And nobody blinked an eye.  But I think for most Catholics (can’t speak for how the Swedes view the tradition), and particularly in our current cultural climate, there is real concern about an intentional attack on sex.  So seeing an all-black or all-Asian or all-non-Jewish group of whatever race portraying the Holy Family in a nativity scene is totally legit and done throughout the world by the faithful despite being ahistorical.  But if you put a beard on the Virgin Mary you’ve passed into the realm of parody or mockery, and that strikes a nerve with me.

     

    • #34
  5. Matt Y. Inactive
    Matt Y.
    @MattY

    (1) Attacking the little boy is disgusting and those who did it absolutely owe him an apology.

    (2) I feel queasy about using a boy to depict a girl, so I don’t think reasonable and un-inflammatory objections (that don’t involve personal attacks on the boy) are wrong. No use flying off the handle about it; it’s probably better ignored.

    (3) Absolutely nothing wrong with using person of a different skin color to portray Lucia, and race-based objections to this are disgusting and made by disgusting people. “Race” is nothing more than a different amount or type of melanin in the skin. As someone else pointed out, the Holy Family was probably not exactly white (though not black either), yet we portray them as white all the time. Nothing wrong with that.

    (4) On the other side, about people who equate trivial, outward racial differences with ingrained, biological sexual differences, and who think objections to either one are basically the same: Those are silly confused people.

    • #35
  6. dukenaltum Inactive
    dukenaltum
    @dukenaltum

    Kate Braestrup: She’s a legendary figure

    Ahh no.

    leg·end·ar·y

     ADJECTIVE

    1. of, described in, or based on legends:

      synonyms:fabled · storied · heroic · traditional · fairy-tale ·

    2. Saint Lucy

      Lucia of Syracuse, also known as Saint Lucy, or Saint Lucia, was a young Christian martyr who died during the Diocletianic Persecution. She is venerated as a saint by the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Orthodox Churches.

    • #36
  7. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Franco:

    Kate Braestrup: Well, there is that possibility. Or, they could be earnestly and honestly celebrating that there are little brown Swedish kids nowadays;

    Are they “Swedish”? What does that mean exactly? Will these folks refer to themselves as Swedes? I doubt it. Highly. What does being Swedish mean? Your passport, your citizenship? Your heritage? Your race? Your ancestry?

    This statement shows a profound lack of understanding of how third world migrants see themselves and others. They are tribal and have their own traditions. They don’t need Swedish traditions, or to be incorporated after-the-fact into the dominant cultures traditions by an ad agency. They don’t see, and will not see for a very long time, the idea of inclusion and homogeneous culture. They are for the most part working hard at maintaining their culture in the foreign land they inhabit.

    I would expect many immigrants to actually object to this appropriation, as though these people lacked traditions of their own. It’s furthermore condescending -the idea that one needs to see their own race depicted to fully embrace the tradition. Speaking of which, if the reverse was attempted, I’m sure there would be objections, maybe even violence, and scholars would call it “Cultural Appropriation”.

    Kate Braestrup: ….Or both. But if it is the former, why take the bait? Why not say “ah, little brown St. Lucia—sweet!”

    Someone will always take the bait. To highlight and disseminate those vile comments is despicable.

    Hmmmn. I’m sympathetic, Franco—especially given all the cultural appropriation cr**. And yes, it would not surprise me at all if provoking people, so as to then condemn the provoked, was the intention. There was context to this—you know it and I know it and my guess is that the Ahlens knew it too.

     

    But if all you say about the (muslim, especially) resistance to real integration and assimilation is true, doesn’t a picture of a little brown male St. Lucia counteract, fairly vigorously,  the resistant-muslim-immigrant narrative much more than it does the native-western-Christian one?  Isn’t it much less an insult to western/Christian culture than an advertisement for its kindness and inclusivity?

    Christian culture is, in fact, kind and inclusive. That little boy might be a Christian for all we know, and have been born to Swedish citizens, speak Swedish, and know no other language or culture. (I know some little brown Danish kids whom that describes).

    • #37
  8. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    From my understanding which comes from Christian missionaries on the ground in Sweden, people of Christian faith have long been dismissed and made sport of in Swedish pop culture. Recently with an influx of refugees and migrants, Christians have been targeted. Their neighborhoods are targeted for settlement and refugees have seemed to target Christians with violence. All the while, Christian leaders who speak up are being called vile names, told that they are valued less than those who are murdering  and raping them. These, migrants are “innocent children”!

    Enter the celebration of this holiday. A celebration of a martyr who saved Christians from persecution. I wonder if this company has a history of insulting and demeaning those who hold Christian beliefs?

    Hmmmm, why would anyone be offended by an innocent brown child depicting the Saint that rescued Christians from persecution? Oh, I got it! Christians are a little too sensitive and likely racists! I’ll bet they are greedy too!

    I think a many Christians see this cover as more than just another passive aggressive attack. It is a poetic, ominous picture of a dark future. This innocent child looks familiar to many of them. Their experiences with “innocent” brown folks has been painful and is getting worse and nobody is listening. Where are you Saint Lucia?

    • #38
  9. skipsul Inactive
    skipsul
    @skipsul

    RyanFalcone: Recently with an influx of refugees and migrants, Christians have been targeted.

    Annika has written extensively elsewhere of how Jews in Sweden are targeted too.

    • #39
  10. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    skipsul:

    RyanFalcone: Recently with an influx of refugees and migrants, Christians have been targeted.

    Annika has written extensively elsewhere of how Jews in Sweden are targeted too.

    Then that is truly disappointing. An alarming lack of basic understanding of why someone in that culture may be feeling threatened by this. If someone with a socio-political agenda is using the market to advance their views, it is a capitalism’s freedom of the market place that allows victims of that agenda to voice their displeasure in a meaningful way. Is she this judgmental of Jews who express themselves when they feel threatened or is this selective indignation?

    • #40
  11. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    dukenaltum: Lucia of Syracuse, also known as Saint Lucy, or Saint Lucia, was a young Christian martyr who died during the Diocletianic Persecution. She is venerated as a saint by the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Orthodox Churches.

    You can be a real person (and a Saint) and be, simultaneously, a legend.

    We don’t really dress up as real people for festivals. We dress up as legendary characters, and act out a story. Even if the story is true (did Lucia of Syracuse wear a crown of candles and deliver coffee and cookies to her loved ones?) it can thus still be, in the scholarly sense, a “myth.”

     

    • #41
  12. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    RyanFalcone:From my understanding which comes from Christian missionaries on the ground in Sweden, people of Christian faith have long been dismissed and made sport of in Swedish pop culture. Recently with an influx of refugees and migrants, Christians have been targeted. Their neighborhoods are targeted for settlement and refugees have seemed to target Christians with violence. All the while, Christian leaders who speak up are being called vile names, told that they are valued less than those who are murdering and raping them. These, migrants are “innocent children”!

    Enter the celebration of this holiday. A celebration of a martyr who saved Christians from persecution. I wonder if this company has a history of insulting and demeaning those who hold Christian beliefs?

    Hmmmm, why would anyone be offended by an innocent brown child depicting the Saint that rescued Christians from persecution? Oh, I got it! Christians are a little too sensitive and likely racists! I’ll bet they are greedy too!

    I think a many Christians see this cover as more than just another passive aggressive attack. It is a poetic, ominous picture of a dark future. This innocent child looks familiar to many of them. Their experiences with “innocent” brown folks has been painful and is getting worse and nobody is listening. Where are you Saint Lucia?

    I’ll be interested to see how Annika responds to this, RyanFalcone?

    Is St Lucia widely understood as someone who saved Christians from persecution, or has she become a more generic Christmas character,  like Santa Claus?

    If the former, then —again—I could imagine (without knowing nearly enough about the situation on the ground to comment, really!) that the immigrants would be more offended than the Christians?

    • #42
  13. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    Kate Braestrup:I’ll be interested to see how Annika responds to this, RyanFalcone?

    Is St Lucia widely understood as someone who saved Christians from persecution, or has she become a more generic Christmas character, like Santa Claus?

    If the former, then —again—I could imagine (without knowing nearly enough about the situation on the ground to comment, really!) that the immigrants would be more offended than the Christians?

    Actually, that doesn’t matter per the intent of the original post. That intent was to portray the pain and fear being shared by the conservatives and libertarians on her feed as being bigotry or ignorance for having a negative response to the ad. That simply distorts legitimate reasons for such negativity. The immigrants are irrelevant to the conversation. If the magazine had Mohammad on the cover but “he” was a “she”, there might be a different sort of backlash though.

     

    • #43
  14. Sash Member
    Sash
    @Sash

    Yah, I don’t think you really get it.  The boy in a dress was highly offensive. I’m not Swedish, but have Swedish connections to this most beloved tradition.  This is terrible.  They were right to be offended and to speak up for themselves. Obviously, you don’t understand, this isn’t a small thing, this is Swedish identity that is under severe attack right now.

    Remember it’s their tradition, they get to determine what it is.  Gender is a thing, it is not taught.  It is highly insulting to pretend it is only learned behavior.  If you hate gender, you hate Lucia.  You hate Christmas. Christmas is not about gender bending. Dressing that boy like that is child abuse, on Christmas.

    • #44
  15. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    RyanFalcone:

    skipsul:

    RyanFalcone: Recently with an influx of refugees and migrants, Christians have been targeted.

    Annika has written extensively elsewhere of how Jews in Sweden are targeted too.

    Then that is truly disappointing. An alarming lack of basic understanding of why someone in that culture may be feeling threatened by this.

    Everything seems to have a socio-political agenda and if it doesn’t, someone will make it so. A website called WhyChristmas.com/Sweden gives this definition:

    St Lucia was a young Christian girl who was martyred, killed for her faith, in 304. The most common story told about St Lucia is that she would secretly bring food to the persecuted Christians in Rome, who lived in hiding in the catacombs under the city. She would wear candles on her head so she had both her hands free to carry things. Lucy means ‘light’ so this is a very appropriate name.

    St. Lucia’s Day is now celebrated by a girl dressing in a white dress with a red sash round her waist and a crown of candles on her head. Small children use electric candles but from about 12 years old, real candles are used!

    Also boys might dress up as ‘Stjärngossar’ (star boys) and girls might be ‘tärnor’ (like Lucia but without the candles)

    Lucia was a girl. They could have used the traditional girl and had a procession of multi-racial children following. It was a statement.

     

     

    • #45
  16. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    RyanFalcone:

    Kate Braestrup:I’ll be interested to see how Annika responds to this, RyanFalcone?

    Is St Lucia widely understood as someone who saved Christians from persecution, or has she become a more generic Christmas character, like Santa Claus?

    If the former, then —again—I could imagine (without knowing nearly enough about the situation on the ground to comment, really!) that the immigrants would be more offended than the Christians?

    Actually, that doesn’t matter per the intent of the original post. That intent was to portray the pain and fear being shared by the conservatives and libertarians on her feed as being bigotry or ignorance for having a negative response to the ad. That simply distorts legitimate reasons for such negativity. The immigrants are irrelevant to the conversation.

    If the magazine had Mohammad on the cover but “he” was a “she”, there might be a different sort of backlash though.  Exactly but don’t try it or there could be dangerous repercussions.

    • #46
  17. Lady Randolph Inactive
    Lady Randolph
    @LadyRandolph

    I think using a boy to portray St Lucia is silly.

    But choosing a black Swedish girl to portray her would have been perfectly fine. It’s a lovely Swedish tradition, and as some other commenters have pointed out, Swedes aren’t just white and blonde anymore! I think it would be equally silly to forbid an American black kid from portraying one of the Founding Fathers in his school play. The point in that case isn’t a historically accurate representation– it’s to honor important figures in our national past.

    • #47
  18. dukenaltum Inactive
    dukenaltum
    @dukenaltum

    Kate Braestrup:

    dukenaltum: Lucia of Syracuse, also known as Saint Lucy, or Saint Lucia, was a young Christian martyr who died during the Diocletianic Persecution. She is venerated as a saint by the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Orthodox Churches.

    You can be a real person (and a Saint) and be, simultaneously, a legend.

    We don’t really dress up as real people for festivals. We dress up as legendary characters, and act out a story. Even if the story is true (did Lucia of Syracuse wear a crown of candles and deliver coffee and cookies to her loved ones?) it can thus still be, in the scholarly sense, a “myth.”

    Kate Braestrup: You can be a real person (and a Saint) and be, simultaneously, a legend.

    Ahh no again, as stated, Saint Lucy is not a legend or legendary even if some stories about her might be pious legends elaborated over the years based on actual events but she is still a canonized and recognized Saint of the majority of Christians whose adhere to the Nicene Creed.  A myth is in any objective light a falsehood. As a Unitarian with a history dating back to ancient days of 1961 it might be easier for you to consider anything older than fifty five years ago as legendary lost in the mists of pre-history but most Christian don’t share your sectarian view or theology.  I took your comment as condescension.

     

    • #48
  19. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    RyanFalcone:

    Kate Braestrup:I’ll be interested to see how Annika responds to this, RyanFalcone?

    Is St Lucia widely understood as someone who saved Christians from persecution, or has she become a more generic Christmas character, like Santa Claus?

    If the former, then —again—I could imagine (without knowing nearly enough about the situation on the ground to comment, really!) that the immigrants would be more offended than the Christians?

    Actually, that doesn’t matter per the intent of the original post. That intent was to portray the pain and fear being shared by the conservatives and libertarians on her feed as being bigotry or ignorance for having a negative response to the ad. That simply distorts legitimate reasons for such negativity. The immigrants are irrelevant to the conversation. If the magazine had Mohammad on the cover but “he” was a “she”, there might be a different sort of backlash though.

    OMG. Ya think?

    • #49
  20. Johnnie Alum 13 Inactive
    Johnnie Alum 13
    @JohnnieAlum13

    Santa Lucia Day is already an overly secularized celebration of Saint Lucy. This just adds to that continuing move towards secularization, especially in the Scandinavian countries.

    • #50
  21. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    dukenaltum:

    Kate Braestrup: You can be a real person (and a Saint) and be, simultaneously, a legend.

    Ahh no again, as stated, Saint Lucy is not a legend or legendary even if some stories about her might be pious legends elaborated over the years based on actual events but she is still a canonized and recognized Saint of the majority of Christians whose adhere to the Nicene Creed. A myth is in any objective light a falsehood. As a Unitarian with a history dating back to ancient days of 1961 it might be easier for you to consider anything older than fifty five years ago as legendary lost in the mists of pre-history but most Christian don’t share your sectarian view or theology. I took your comment as condescension.

    It definitely wasn’t intended as condescension, Duke. (BTW,  both Unitarianism and Universalism have histories that go much further back than 1961, FYI…but never mind).

    The word “myth” can mean, basically, “lie,” but that isn’t its only meaning. I meant it, rather, as a story (true or false) that illustrates how we are to understand something, or how we are to live.  The Rescue of the Danish Jews is, for me and my family, mythic and legendary, and I occasionally deploy it as a  parable, even if it is also history—I had family members who participated. A legend can also be a true story that—perhaps embellished, certainly edited—that captures something(historical, philosophical, theological)that is  important, but in a relatively short and memorable form. I don’t think of either “myth” or “legend” as put-downs. Quite the opposite.  Even where a given story is fiction, that isn’t the same as saying it’s a lie. Jesus used parables—he wasn’t a liar.

    The OP brings up a lot of interesting questions.

    There is the original intention, on the part of the department store, of having the little boy be “Lucia.” There’s: “what does Lucia represent in the modern, secular society of Sweden?” “what does she represent, specifically, in 2016, given vexed immigration questions, the tyranny of PC, the secular West’s specific disdain for Christians and hypocritical solicitude for Muslims, etc. etc.

    There’s “who was Lucia in real life?” “Who is she and what does she represent for the devout Christian?” And, of course, there’s what the best, most sensible and productive (not to mention Christian) response to the image if one does happen to object to it?

    None of these are easy questions, which is why the OP (and the little brown boy Lucia) are worth discussing.

     

    • #51
  22. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Chris: Benneton ad.

    I was trying to remember the name of the company. Benneton. The pic does bring that campaign style to mind.

    • #52
  23. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    yoyomama: Lucia was Sicilian, not Swedish,

    thanks for clearing that up for me. All I could think of is the folk tune Santa Lucia, and how that didn’t really seem a Swedish type of song.

    See…how blurry things get across years and cultures.

    I am vaguely familiar with it, but I seriously have no details embedded in my mind, heart or life. So, seeing that image does not rock me that way it would someone who is very attached to the tradition, whether religiously, or secularly.

    I agree with the earlier comment that changing the skin shades, eye shapes, or facial contours is a natural thing, but that these days changing the gender of a traditional folk character is more like baiting than being inclusive.

    I think this discussion of this topic is valuable, but of course, miserable and hateful comments serve no one in the end.

    • #53
  24. Susan in Seattle Member
    Susan in Seattle
    @SusaninSeattle

    Having strong ties to Sweden and some facility with its language, customs, and culture, I have wanted to add to the conversation but have nothing meaningful to contribute.  I will thus give you a photo of the figurines I purchased two weeks ago today from a flower shop in the  far southern Swedish town of Kristianstad.

    img_0800

    • #54
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

     

    dukenaltum: might be pious legends elaborated over the years based on actual events but she is still a canonized and recognized Saint of the majority of Christians whose adhere to the Nicene Creed. A myth is in any objective light a falsehood. As a Unitarian with a history dating back to ancient days of 1961 it might be easier for you to consider anything older than fifty five years ago as legendary lost in the mists of pre-history but most Christian don’t share your sectarian view or theology. I took your comment as condescension.

    I don’t see why you need to take it that way.  Concentrate on the part that begins, “Even if the story is true…”

    • #55
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Susan in Seattle:Having strong ties to Sweden and some facility with its language, customs, and culture, I have wanted to add to the conversation but have nothing meaningful to contribute. I will thus give you a photo of the figurines I purchased two weeks ago today from a flower shop in the far southern Swedish town of Kristianstad.

    img_0800

    No facial features? That’s dehumanizing.

    • #56
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    RyanFalcone: If the magazine had Mohammad on the cover but “he” was a “she”, there might be a different sort of backlash though.

    Good point. Maybe if the magazine had done that in a spirit of even-handedness, the two backlashes would have canceled each other out.

    • #57
  28. Susan in Seattle Member
    Susan in Seattle
    @SusaninSeattle

    The Reticulator:

    Susan in Seattle:

    img_0800

    No facial features? That’s dehumanizing.

    Certainly they are stylized.  I have to remember though that Dilbert doesn’t have a mouth.

    • #58
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Susan in Seattle:

    The Reticulator:

    Susan in Seattle:

    img_0800

    No facial features? That’s dehumanizing.

    Certainly they are stylized. I have to remember though that Dilbert doesn’t have a mouth.

    Wait a minute. How am I going to get my outrage fix of the day if I can’t denounce your choice?

    • #59
  30. Susan in Seattle Member
    Susan in Seattle
    @SusaninSeattle

    The Reticulator:

    Susan in Seattle:

    The Reticulator:

    Susan in Seattle:

    img_0800

    No facial features? That’s dehumanizing.

    Certainly they are stylized. I have to remember though that Dilbert doesn’t have a mouth.

    Wait a minute. How am I going to get my outrage fix of the day if I can’t denounce your choice?

    Ahh, hahahahaha!

    • #60
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